back to indexRyan Hall: Martial Arts and the Philosophy of Violence, Power, and Grace | Lex Fridman Podcast #125
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The following is a conversation with Ryan Hall,
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one of the most insightful minds and systems thinkers
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in the martial arts world.
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He's a black belt in jiu jitsu, accomplished competitor,
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an MMA fighter undefeated in the UFC,
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and truly a philosopher who seeks to understand
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the underlying principles of the martial arts.
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Jiu jitsu is such an important part of who I am,
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and I was hoping to share that with folks
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who might know me only as a researcher.
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I think there's no better person to do that with than Ryan,
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who somehow, remarkably, I can say is a friend,
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and also a modern day warrior philosopher
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of the Miyamoto Masashi line of especially dangerous
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and brilliant humans.
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Also, his amazing wife, Jen Hall, was there as well,
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so if you hear a kind of voice of wisdom coming from above,
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you know who it is.
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Quick summary of the sponsors,
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PowerDot, Babbel, and Cash App.
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Please check out the sponsors in the description
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to get a discount and to support this podcast.
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As a side note, let me say that renaming this podcast
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to just my name gave me intellectual freedom
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that I really didn't anticipate was so empowering,
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especially for someone who's trying to find their voice.
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I hope you'll allow me the chance to really try and do that,
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to step outside of AI and even science, engineering,
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history, and so on, and on occasion,
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talk to athletes, musicians, writers,
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and maybe even comedians who inspire me,
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especially up and coming comedians and musicians
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like Eric Weinstein, who yes,
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we'll do a third conversation with soon.
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I think if I allow myself to expand the range
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of these conversations on occasion,
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when I do return to science and engineering,
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I'll bring a new perspective and also a little bit more fun
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and a few extra listeners
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that may not otherwise realize how fascinating
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artificial intelligence, robotics, mathematics,
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and engineering truly is.
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All that said, please skip the episodes
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that don't interest you.
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You don't have to listen to all of them.
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Trust me, as someone who is a bit or a lot OCD,
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that idea is quite unpleasant.
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But life, friends, is full of unpleasant things.
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But as Hunter S. Thompson suggested,
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and I suggest as well,
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you should still buy the ticket and take the ride.
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If you enjoy this thing, subscribe on YouTube,
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review it with five stars on Apple Podcast,
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follow on Spotify, support on Patreon,
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or connect with me on Twitter at Lex Friedman.
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As usual, I'll do a few minutes of ads now
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and no ads in the middle.
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I try to make these interesting,
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but I give you the timestamp,
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so please skip if you don't want to listen to the ads,
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but it does mean a lot to me when you do.
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And still please do check out the sponsors
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by clicking on the links in the description.
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It really is the best way to support this podcast.
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This show is sponsored by Power Dot.
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Get it at PowerDot.com slash Lex
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and use code Lex at checkout to get 20% off.
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I use it for muscle recovery for legs and shoulders,
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but you can also use it to build muscle,
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endurance, or even just warm up.
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In fact, I first heard about this kind of
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electrical muscle stimulation device
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in reading that Bruce Lee used it.
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He was an inspiration to me
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as someone who practices first principles thinking,
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especially in a discipline
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where conventional thinking is everywhere.
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He created a martial art called Jeet Kune Do
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that is in many ways, at least philosophically
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in its hybrid approach,
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a precursor to modern day mixed martial arts.
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There's a special kind of deep philosophical thinking
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that combat athletes or jiu jitsu practitioners do
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that is unlike any other.
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I think it's grounded in the humbling process
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of getting your ass kicked a lot.
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That removes any illusion of intellectual superiority.
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I think the journey towards wisdom starts
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when you humbly admit to yourself
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that you know very little or almost nothing.
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Anyway, go to PowerDot.com slash Lex
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and use code Lex at checkout to get 20% off
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on top of the 30 day free trial.
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This show is also sponsored by Babbel,
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an app and website that gets you speaking
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in a new language within weeks.
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Go to Babbel.com and use code Lex to get three months free.
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They offer 14 languages, including Spanish, French,
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Italian, German, and yes, Russian.
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Let me read a few lines from a Russian song
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by Vladimir Vysotsky called
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Anna Bula V Parishe.
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You'll start to understand if you sign up to Babbel.
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The song always made me smile,
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because it resonates with my own life.
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It translates loosely to she's been to Paris.
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Paris for a Russian, I suppose, symbolizing a fancy life
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and that the guy can never quite fit into that kind of life.
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Expensive things, nice restaurants, cars, all that.
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I was thinking about what song's equivalent in English,
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maybe Uptown Girl by Billy Joe is similar in spirit,
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but very different in style.
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I just watched the video on YouTube for Uptown Girl
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and it's basically Billy Joe dressed up as a mechanic,
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but dancing in a way that I'm pretty sure
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no mechanic has ever danced,
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turning the old cringe factor up to 11.
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Anyway, I always felt like I didn't really fit in
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with the fancy people and that's what this song represents.
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But back to Babbel.
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Get started by visiting babbel.com
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and use code LEX to get three months free.
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This show is presented by the great, the powerful,
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the OG sponsor named unofficially
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after one of my favorite musicians,
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the man in black, Johnny Cash.
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That's Cash App, the number one finance app
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When you get it, use code LEX podcast.
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The Cash App folks are truly amazing people
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and are teaming with ideas for cool contests,
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giveaways and all that kind of stuff.
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I've been thinking of doing some kind of a little contest
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and giving away 42 bucks to a bunch of people who win.
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It's not so much about the money,
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but the glory and a delicious taste of victory.
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If you have ideas for a contest, let me know.
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I was thinking of something like asking people
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to submit funny, inspiring photos or videos or audio
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of using Cash App or any of the sponsors of this podcast,
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really, or maybe even just funny things related
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to the podcast, like different weird places
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you might be watching or listening to me right now.
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I'm pretty sure there's somebody out there right now
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sitting in a hot tub with some wine watching me say this.
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I salute you, sir or madam.
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I may be opening up some floodgates I deeply regret later,
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so please make sure you're wearing clothes
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and whatever you sent me.
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There'll be no naked people in the hot tub
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as part of this podcast.
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I have integrity and standards.
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Let me know in the comments what ideas
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for contests you might have.
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Again, if you get Cash App from the App Store or Google Play
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and use the code LexPodcast, you get $10,
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and Cash App will also donate $10 to FIRST,
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an organization that is helping to advance robotics
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and STEM education for young people around the world.
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And now, here's my conversation with Ryan Hall.
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Who, in your view, is the greatest warrior in history?
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Ancient or modern?
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That's a tough question, and again,
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I'm no historian by any measure,
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so I'll probably do the worst.
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It's like, what are your best bands ever?
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I'm like, Metallica, and you know, so I'll pick the...
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Metallica just came out with a new album,
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by the way, with an entire orchestra.
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That's kind of cool.
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Yeah. That's important.
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Metallica will always be one of the greatest.
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Yeah, that's right.
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So I agree with you.
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They were a bad example.
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They were a well known, yet awesome band.
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Let me say it's like Nickelback or something like that.
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I mean, that feels cheap
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because everyone makes fun of Nickelback.
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I guess it depends on how you want to define warrior.
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Something that I think about
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when it comes to trying to evaluate
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various people or situations
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or things that I've read about or heard about
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are the circumstances that they were involved in
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because I think a lot of times
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it's easy to look at the outcomes,
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and obviously we live in an outcome driven world
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and outcomes do matter,
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but at the same time, you look at,
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let's say what Cuba's been able to pull off
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from a combat sports perspective, it's staggering.
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The amount of successful Olympic level competitors
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they have in wrestling, boxing, judo.
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I mean, they're a tiny little island
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with no money and no people.
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You know, when you think about the Olympics
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and the United States doing well,
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of course we should do well.
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I mean, Russia should do well.
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China should do well.
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India should do better than they do, honestly.
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Obviously it means like they're not into it as much
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or at least certain sports
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because they have the resources people wise.
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So talent's not going to be an issue.
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So there's something to like
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where the starting point is.
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Like that's the argument with like,
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why people say Maradona,
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I don't know if you're into soccer, okay.
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They say Maradona is better than Messi
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because he basically carried the team
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and won the World Cup with a team
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that wouldn't otherwise win the World Cup.
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And then Messi was only successful in Barcelona
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because he has like superstars,
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he's playing with other superstars.
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Yeah, that's fair to say.
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I mean, like you're not,
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there's a lot of factors that go into,
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let's say winning a soccer game.
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And obviously Barcelona,
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particularly for various points in time
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had a ridiculous all star squad of world class players.
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But let's say for instance,
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maybe they didn't have the creative players in Argentina.
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They needed to get the ball up to Messi.
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They didn't have like the NES
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and again the backing there in the midfield.
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But because obviously Argentina's always had
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ridiculous attacking players,
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like even alongside Messi,
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but they're like the three killers up front
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and then a little less behind.
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So it's interesting you say that
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depends how you define warrior
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because you can probably take like
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some of the civil rights leaders,
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you can go into that direction,
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like leaders in general.
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But if we just look at like
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the greatest martial artists in history in that direction,
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do you have somebody in mind?
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I would say at least three that pop into my head
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and would be Hannibal, Alexander the Great,
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and then maybe Miyamoto Musashi,
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the two commanders and then one guy.
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But so it's interesting.
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And then again, you mentioned warriors
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being able to make a lot out of a little.
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Musashi's famous for winning duels
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that were oftentimes one on one.
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The Alexander and Hannibal were military commanders
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and one of them faced Rome.
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And that was an interesting thing.
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Oftentimes coming up with novel tactics,
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different strategies, sometimes under resourced,
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having to do novel and crazy things,
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there's skin in the game.
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That's an interesting thing too.
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I think a lot of times it's,
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if you're playing a video game,
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I don't think you can be a warrior
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because there's no skin in the game.
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You get hurt, you lose, that's a bummer.
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It stings a little bit,
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maybe it makes you feel slightly disappointed,
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but Musashi loses, he loses.
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Hannibal loses, he loses.
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Alexander loses, he loses.
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And they lose, I guess the people around them lose.
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So that's almost like you could use,
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even from a combat sports perspective, Muhammad Ali,
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I mean, you consider also their quality of opposition.
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Musashi was fighting high quality opposition.
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Obviously Hannibal and Alexander, particularly Hannibal,
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were fighting unbelievable opposition.
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Muhammad Ali fought phenomenal opposition,
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but he had skin in the game both in the ring and out.
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And that actually meshes with, as you mentioned,
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like a civil rights type of situation
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where you are under resourced,
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you're pushing the stone uphill.
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And that was a neat thing I think about Muhammad Ali
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was how much personal conviction the man had to have
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in order to pull off what he was able to pull off
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both in and outside of the ring.
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And that reminds me of, again,
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some of the other great leaders
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or great fighters throughout history.
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So what do you make of the kind of very difficult idea
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that some of these conquerors like Alexander the Great
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and somebody that, if you listen to Hardcore History,
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oh, Dan Carlin, who apparently Elon Musk
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is also a big fan of, is the Genghis Khan episode.
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A large percent of the world can call Genghis Khan
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So the difficult truth is about some of these conquerors
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is that there's a lot of murder and rape and pillage
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and stealing of resources and all that kind of stuff.
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And yet they're often remembered as quite honorable.
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I mean, in the case of Genghis Khan,
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there's a lot of people who argue,
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if you look at historically the way it's described
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in full context, is he was ultimately,
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given the time, he was a liberator.
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He was a progressive, I should say.
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In terms of the violence and the atrocities he committed,
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he, at least in the stories, has always provided the option
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of not to do that.
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It's only if you resist, do,
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so you basically have the option,
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do you wanna join us or do you want to die?
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That's the progressive sort of,
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that's the Bernie Sanders of the era.
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So what do you make of that?
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That there's so much of these great conquerors,
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there's so much murder that to us now would just seem insane.
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It's funny you mention it.
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I think that maybe it's a human nature thing
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that we want to, or maybe a misunderstanding thing
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that we want to cast all of our characters and ourselves
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maybe as entirely good or as entirely negative
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when I guess the phrase or the saying,
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one man's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist,
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And a lot of times I think you can understand
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as long as you're able to look
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from various people's perspective.
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Like if you look at the TV show, The Wire,
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which was obviously widely, everybody loves The Wire.
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I thought that there were everyone,
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I'm not saying anything that's not been said before,
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compelling characters from all angles,
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whether you like the character, dislike the character,
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you were able to understand the motivations of people
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doing various things.
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Even if they did wrongly, they did rightly.
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We want to cast all of the demons throughout history
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as completely inhuman when I think that makes it difficult
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for us to understand them.
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And we want to look back at the people
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that we think of as great and entirely great.
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And I think that we're experiencing the problems with this
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even right now, socially and politically
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as we're trying to look back and decide
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the people we thought were good or not good
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or people we thought were bad are now good
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rather than going, hey, there's good and bad to all things.
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And there are, as you mentioned, the Genghis Khan thing,
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you don't have to fight back.
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You do, I respect you for it,
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but then we're gonna have a conflict
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and then we'll see what happens.
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And if you lose, you're gonna be sorry that you did
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because I have to make it that way.
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If I want to continue utilizing this kind of MO
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because I need to discourage the next guy
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from doing what you're doing right now.
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And ultimately though, I guess that's an interesting thing.
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Imagine you put every single person
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on planet earth in a cage, crime drops, all sorts.
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There are certain positives to that.
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And it's just, things are as they are, it's difficult,
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but that is ultimately more the law of the jungle.
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And I think that we're able to supersede some of that now
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in modern times and I think we're fortunate.
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But as you mentioned, we look back and say,
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oh, this is horrible.
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Say, no, that just is what it is.
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That's how life is at a base level.
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And again, if you're a lion and I'm a gazelle,
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I don't really like it very much,
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but we don't call the lion the bad guy.
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We don't sanctify the gazelle or the other way around.
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So it's just, it's interesting when you pull back
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some of the controls that we put on our behavior
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and in modern life,
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which I think are generally speaking positive,
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we get down to how things often are.
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And at the same time, we could,
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modern life was built by people like Genghis Khan.
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So then you get down to the ends justifying the means.
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It's a tough question.
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These aren't things with easy answers,
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or at least if they are, I certainly don't have the smarts
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to figure out the answers to them, but it's difficult.
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I would just say people in the world are complicated
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and layered and depending upon which side of the line
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you're standing on at various times,
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you may like or dislike someone,
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but I can't remember whose idea it was,
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this is killing me, but it's the veil of ignorance,
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I guess, the philosophical idea of the veil of ignorance
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where I go, is sticking everyone in the cage
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the right thing to do?
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Or everyone but me, and I say, well, no, why?
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Well, it would make my life easier
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if I just went over and took all of your stuff
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as long as you couldn't stop me.
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I mean, of course that's a great idea.
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That's what everyone does in every video game.
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But in Skyrim, you steal stuff when people aren't around.
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But ultimately you go, well,
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this isn't the right thing to do
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because if I were on the other side of it,
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I would not appreciate it.
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It's inherently not a good thing to do.
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I'm only doing it because I think I'm gonna win.
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And that's a fine way to be,
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but you don't have the white hat on, I guess I would say.
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So I think without those philosophical underpinnings
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to rein us in, I guess, morally speaking,
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it's very difficult to say what's right or wrong.
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And you'd say certain actions have a reaction,
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almost like a physics sense.
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If you kill everyone in your way
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for as long as you're able to, your life will be easier.
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I mean, you're setting the table for someone
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doing the same to you when you're no longer the tough guy,
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but it is what it is.
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Yeah, if you look at like the Instagram channel,
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nature is metal, it hurts my heart to watch,
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to remind me, a comfortable descendant of ape,
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how vicious nature is, just unapologetically, just,
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I mean, there's a process to it where the bad guy always wins.
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The violence is the solution to most problems,
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or the flip side of that running away from violence
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is the solution depending on your skillset.
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And it's funny to think of us humans
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with our extra little piece of brain
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that we're somehow trying to figure out,
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like you said, in a philosophical way,
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how to supersede that, how to like move past the viciousness,
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the cruelty, just the cold exchange of nature.
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But perhaps it's not so, maybe that is nature,
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maybe that's the way of life, maybe we're trying too hard to,
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we're being too egotistical and thinking we're somehow
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separate from nature, we're somehow distant
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from that very thing.
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I couldn't agree with you more.
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In fact, I think actually Orson Scott Card,
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who's the writer of a great book called Ender's Game,
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this was a statement that the main character,
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Ender, made in the book.
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His brother was brilliant.
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His brother was like kind of sociopathic brilliant kid
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that ended up kicked out of the school
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that they were all into for Battle Commander.
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Dealing with his brother taught him that ultimately strength,
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courage, the ability to do violence
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for all the good and the bad of that
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is one of the fundamental most important things
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to be able to do in life,
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because if you can't cause destruction,
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if you can't cause pain,
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you will be forever subject to those who can.
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And I think that you mentioned egotism.
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I think that that's a disease
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that could obviously strike any of us,
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but it's something that we're looking at now.
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We're, I think we should be unbelievably thankful
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as people that live in the world that we do
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that we can walk down the street
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without having to worry that I'm like,
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well, don't worry that that's six foot six,
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270 pound person over there is just gonna leave me alone.
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And I have a Rolex on, but whatever, I'll be fine.
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Because that person is deciding to leave me alone
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because we've all agreed to live in this relatively sane
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and or constrained society because it benefits all of us.
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And we're doing it because of a philosophical underpinning,
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not because nature dictates it be that way,
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because nature dictates it go in a very,
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very different direction.
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And the only person,
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the only thing stopping that person
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from doing something to me is either me, that person,
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or someone else that will stand in between us.
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And if I can't do it,
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and there's no one there to stand in between us,
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then the only thing stopping that person is that person.
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And I have to hope that they're either disinterested
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or disinclined to do that sort of thing.
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And I think that it's keeping in mind
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that that is the fundamental nature of the world,
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whether we like it or not is important.
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And I think the quest to fundamentally alter human nature
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is gonna be ultimately fruitless.
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And then also it's, it is a little bit egotistical.
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A lion does what a lion does.
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We can try to box it in and we can try to guide
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this direction, that direction.
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But nature is as it is and as it always will be
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unless we wanna start to constrain it significantly.
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But now I'm starting to get into individual rights
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who put me in charge,
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who says that I should be the one
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to make the choices constraining
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because many of the most awful things
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that have happened throughout history,
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one group or one person has decided to constrain others.
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And we don't like Genghis Khan doing that.
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Well, I'll do that on a little level.
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Are there gonna be benefits and beneficiaries?
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Absolutely, but there'll be losers in that too.
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So I guess it's a dangerous game.
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It's almost like putting on the one ring.
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You remember when Frodo offered the one ring to Gandalf
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and Gandalf said, no, no, I would take it away.
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I would put it on.
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I would use it out of the desire to do good.
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But through me, it would wield a power so terrible
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you can't imagine.
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I think that's the big question for anyone that decides
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that's able to have reach and able to have power.
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I mean, obviously I can't speak to that,
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but imagine you did have national level,
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global level power.
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How would you use it?
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Would you try to change the world?
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Would you be glad that you did down the line?
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Yeah, that's the thing we're struggling now as a society.
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Maybe it'd be nice to get your quick comment on that,
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which is the people who have traditionally been powerless
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are now seeking a fairer society, a more equal society.
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And in attaining more power justly,
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there's also a realization, at least from my perspective,
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that power corrupts everyone.
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Even if the flag you wave is that of justice, right?
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And so, not to overuse the term, but it'd be nice
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if you have thoughts about the whole idea of cancel culture
link |
and the internet and Twitter and so on,
link |
where there's nuanced, difficult discussions of race,
link |
of gender, of fairness, equality, justice,
link |
all of these kinds of things.
link |
There's a shouting down oftentimes of nuanced discussion
link |
of kind of trying to reason through these very difficult issues,
link |
through our history, through what our future looks like.
link |
Do you have thoughts about the internet discourse
link |
that's going on now?
link |
Is there something positive?
link |
Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting thing to see.
link |
I guess, as you mentioned,
link |
anytime you're wielding power, whomever you are,
link |
doing so carefully is important.
link |
And it's very, very easy to look at the people that have power
link |
and that are using it poorly or have used it poorly
link |
and go, hey, you're the bad guy.
link |
And then go, well, of course, if I had power,
link |
I'll use it properly and I may intend to use it properly
link |
But at the same time, we see a lot of times
link |
people are people are people.
link |
I think that a lot of the...
link |
I think if you believe that human beings are all one,
link |
which I do, no matter whether you're here or there,
link |
you got two arms, two legs, a heart, a brain,
link |
we all live a similar experience.
link |
And obviously, with variations on a theme,
link |
but you're no less a human being.
link |
If you're a person I've never met from China,
link |
than some person in Virginia, we're all people.
link |
And I guess, ultimately, if I believe that human beings
link |
are corruptible and that power corrupts
link |
and that we're all fallible and we say and do things
link |
that either intentionally or unintentionally
link |
that we wish we'd not, I think that I have to allow
link |
for a space, I guess the word, it's almost a religious term,
link |
but I guess I would just say grace.
link |
And that's something that I see disappearing from discourse
link |
in the public, or maybe it wasn't there, I'm not sure,
link |
but it's interesting watching this occur on the internet
link |
because also now no longer are you and I just having a talk
link |
sitting on a bus stop, it's now in writing.
link |
Everything's in writing.
link |
The old saying, don't put that in writing.
link |
You're like, don't put anything in writing.
link |
That's how you get in trouble.
link |
And basically, with the degree to which everything
link |
is recorded, but recorded in tiny little bites,
link |
it's very, very easy for me to wave every last little foolish,
link |
ignorant, incorrect, or correct thing that someone
link |
has ever said or done in their face to support whatever
link |
argument that I'm trying to make about them or a situation.
link |
And I think that you mentioned cancel culture,
link |
as it seems to exist.
link |
Obviously, this is poisonous on its face.
link |
This is poisonous.
link |
It's the sort of thing that doesn't incentivize
link |
I mean, you look at, let's say one of the great monsters
link |
of history, Adolf Hitler, obviously, who's done awful,
link |
awful things, but also for anyone that's even a minor
link |
student of history, did some positive things as well.
link |
I don't have to embroider this person's crimes.
link |
I don't have to act as if there was nothing good a monster has
link |
ever done and nothing bad that a great person throughout history
link |
But imagine the ghost of Adolf Hitler were to pop up and go,
link |
oh, my gosh, guys, I'm so sorry.
link |
I know what I've done, but I'd like to apologize and start
link |
Well, I mean, you'd hope that if he popped up over here,
link |
you'd go, well, I don't really like what you've done.
link |
And I don't like you.
link |
But at the same time, I'm glad to hear that you're attempting
link |
to make this right and push in a positive direction, even if
link |
you can't make it right.
link |
Because otherwise, what am I doing?
link |
I'm disincentivizing change for the better.
link |
I'm looking to wield whatever power I have in a punitive
link |
fashion, which does not encourage people to do anything
link |
other than double down on the wrongs that they've made,
link |
knowing that at least they're going to have some support from
link |
the people that support that.
link |
And I guess I want to, you would hopefully look at the use
link |
of the internet as a tool that can educate, and I guess I
link |
don't like the word empower, but empower people to do various
link |
things, extend their reach, but educate and learn rather than
link |
to further solidify little tribal things that exist, which
link |
I think everyone in humanity and human history is vulnerable
link |
I mean, look at the course of human history.
link |
It's deeply tribal.
link |
And the tribes or the groups that have been on top at various
link |
points in time have done a lot of times bad things to the
link |
ones that have not.
link |
And you'd hope that we could learn lessons from the past
link |
and rather than committing the crimes that were committed
link |
against us, recommitting them when we slide into the top
link |
position, say, I could do this now, but I'll not.
link |
I understand the urge to seek vengeance is strong.
link |
Anyone that says differently, I wouldn't trust.
link |
But at the same time, we have enough experience in history,
link |
enough experience in life, enough hopefully wisdom time in
link |
to go, this isn't the right answer.
link |
This is only going to replay the things.
link |
The worst parts of our history, not the best.
link |
And I want to encourage positive behavior.
link |
And if I just, again, further lash out at people, although
link |
understandably, done understandably, I'm simply just
link |
going to just perpetuate the cycle that's gone on to this
link |
So you hope that even though we're seeing a lot of turmoil
link |
societally at the moment and globally at the moment, that I
link |
guess our better angels can prevail at a certain point.
link |
But it's going to take a great deal of leadership.
link |
And I think that we're sorely missing like a Martin Luther
link |
King style character at the moment or a great leader.
link |
And I'm hoping that one will show up.
link |
And by the way, a word I don't hear often, and I think it's
link |
a beautiful one, which is grace.
link |
That's a really interesting word.
link |
I'm going to have to think about that.
link |
There is a religious component to it, but it's exactly right.
link |
You have to somehow walk the line between, you know, you
link |
I've been reading The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.
link |
I'm really thinking about the 1930s and what it's like to
link |
My concern is the economic pain that people are feeling now
link |
quietly is really a suffering that's not being heard.
link |
And there's echoes of that in the 20s and the 30s with the
link |
And there's a hunger for a charismatic leader.
link |
Like you said, there's a leader that could walk with grace,
link |
could inspire, could bring people together with sort of dreams
link |
of a better future that's positive.
link |
But Hitler did exactly everything that I just said, except
link |
for the word positive, which is he did give a dream to the
link |
German people who were great people, who are great people
link |
of a better future.
link |
It's just that a certain point that quickly turned into the
link |
better future requires literally expansion of more land.
link |
It started with, well, if we want to build a great Germany,
link |
we need a little bit more land.
link |
And so we need to kind of get Austria, then we need to kind
link |
of get France, mostly because France doesn't understand that
link |
more land is really useful.
link |
So we need to get rid of them.
link |
And look what they did to us in Versailles anyway.
link |
But so the Jewish, the Holocaust is a separate thing.
link |
Well, I don't know.
link |
I don't know what to think of it because so me being Jewish
link |
and having a lot of the echoes of the suffering is in my
link |
family or the people that are lost.
link |
I don't know because Hitler wrote all about it in Mein Kampf.
link |
So I don't know if the evil he committed was there all along.
link |
I mean, and that's where the question of forgiveness, I mean,
link |
Hitler is such a difficult person to talk about, but it's
link |
the question of cancer culture, who is deserving of forgiveness
link |
and who is not like the Holocaust survivors that I've read
link |
about that I've heard the interviews with.
link |
They've often spoken about the fact that the way for them
link |
to let go, to overcome the atrocities that they've experienced
link |
Like forgiveness is the way out for them.
link |
It's interesting to think about.
link |
I don't know if we're even as a society ready to even
link |
contemplate an idea of forgiveness for Hitler.
link |
It's an interesting idea though.
link |
It's a good thought exercise at the very least to think about
link |
like all these people that are being canceled for doing bad
link |
things of different degrees.
link |
Think of like Louis CK or somebody like that for being
link |
not a good person, but like, what is the path for forgiveness?
link |
And also what's a good person?
link |
What is a good person?
link |
If that's a sliding scale that we could all find ourselves
link |
looking at the uncomfortable end of a gun on, you know,
link |
particularly down the line.
link |
I mean, you hope for the best, but these definitions, I guess,
link |
like you said, are important and who's doing the canceling,
link |
who's being canceled.
link |
I'm not necessarily, as you said, saying that that's entirely
link |
unjustified or certainly not, it's certainly understandable.
link |
And particularly you mentioned like a monster, like an Adolf
link |
Hitler, but it's also interesting.
link |
I couldn't help but notice, like you mentioned as a society,
link |
us being able to apply forgiveness to someone who's
link |
done so much horror, but people who are personal, I mean,
link |
of course, many of us, so many people in person affected,
link |
but directly personally affected someone, a survivor of the
link |
Holocaust being able to let go on that.
link |
I'm nowhere near big enough a person for that sort of thing.
link |
But I guess that's an interesting thing, you know, being
link |
the person who was physically there, potentially able to
link |
let go, I don't know, that's unbelievably powerful.
link |
I guess you have to wonder sometimes, and this isn't
link |
obviously in regards to the Holocaust, but why I'm holding
link |
on to various things, have I, what is it doing for me and
link |
what is it doing to me?
link |
Is it facilitative, is it not?
link |
And I guess that's something else that I really want to
link |
talk about, something else that I really enjoy.
link |
When I was on Ultimate Fighter, they don't let you have any
link |
music or any books.
link |
I didn't have religious texts, so I brought a Bible and I
link |
brought a Quran and I started to read them side by side.
link |
And it was really interesting reading.
link |
The Bible's a little drier, the Quran's more interesting,
link |
But I think something that was consistently brought up was
link |
the way, most merciful.
link |
People want, I don't think any of us want justice.
link |
We think we want justice, but I don't think we want justice.
link |
This is a dangerous, dangerous, dangerous game, because maybe
link |
this person's wronged me deeply and I want justice.
link |
I want to balance it out, because what is justice if not
link |
a balancing of the scales?
link |
And sometimes you can understand it on a societal
link |
level, I think it's fine.
link |
I mean, there's crime and punishment and we can go for
link |
the benefits and the drawbacks of that.
link |
But I think what any of us want is mercy within reason, grace,
link |
as you mentioned, because justice is a very, very, very
link |
dangerous thing and it's a valuable and important thing.
link |
But who gets to decide what's just, what justice is actually
link |
Maybe I get to meet out justice, but it's not, I don't get
link |
Well, that sounds great, but what happens when it's pointed
link |
And I guess that comes back to the veil of ignorance, the
link |
idea that one day I will have to live in the world in which
link |
I've envisioned and the world in which I've created.
link |
I think that a lot of times people love the idea of they're
link |
a judge for your crimes and a lawyer for theirs.
link |
And I heard that the other day.
link |
I thought that was great.
link |
And I think that's a dangerous thing and hopefully it gives
link |
us all pause before rightly or wrongly, but always understandably
link |
wielding serious power.
link |
Justice is a kind of drug.
link |
So if you look at history, I've also been reading a lot
link |
I mean, all those folks really, I don't know what was inside
link |
Hitler's head actually that he's a tricky one because I think
link |
he was legitimately insane.
link |
And Stalin was like, he literally thought he's doing a good
link |
He literally thought for the entirety of the time that communism
link |
is going to bring, like that's the utopia and he's going to
link |
create a happy world.
link |
And in his, in his mind were ideas of justice, of fairness,
link |
of happiness, of, of yeah, human flourishing.
link |
And that's, that's a drug and it's somehow sadly pollutes the
link |
mind when you start thinking like that, what's good for
link |
society and believing that you have a good sense of what's
link |
That's intoxicating, especially when others around you are
link |
feeling the same way.
link |
And then you start like building up this movement and you
link |
forget that you are just like, you're, you're like barely
link |
recently evolved from an ape.
link |
Like you don't know what the hell you're doing.
link |
And then you start like killing witches or whatever.
link |
Like you start, you start doing.
link |
Let's be honest though.
link |
I mean, sometimes you got a witch has to go.
link |
We can all agree that a witch, a witch has to go if, if it
link |
floats or sinks, which one, I forget which one.
link |
Whichever one we need at the time, honestly.
link |
It should have sunk.
link |
Yeah, but yeah, we can definitely agree that witches
link |
have to go because you brought it up.
link |
I tweeted recently, but also just, I'm one of the things
link |
I'm really ashamed of in my life is I haven't really read
link |
almost any of the sci fi classics.
link |
So like I, my whole journey through reading was through
link |
like the literary philosophers that would say like Camus,
link |
Hase, Dostoevsky, Kafka, like that place, like that's a kind
link |
of sci fi world in itself, but it's, it just, it creates a
link |
world in which the, the deepest questions about human nature
link |
I didn't realize this, but the sci fi world is the same.
link |
It just puts it in a, it like removes it from any kind of
link |
historical context where you can explore those same ideas
link |
in like space somewhere elsewhere in a different time,
link |
a different place.
link |
It allows you almost like more freedom to like construct
link |
these artificial things where you can just do crazy, crazy
link |
kind of human experiments.
link |
So I'm now working through it.
link |
The books on my list are the foundation series by
link |
Isaac Asimov, Dune, Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson and
link |
Ender's Game, like you mentioned.
link |
That's just kind of, and then, so I posted that.
link |
And then of course, like Elon Musk, John Carmack, I don't
link |
know if you know him, creator of Doom and Quake.
link |
See, they all pitched in these nerds, these ultra nerds
link |
just started like going like these, you need to read this,
link |
that and the other.
link |
So I've like started working out.
link |
But it seems like the list I've mentioned holds up somewhat.
link |
Is there sci fi books or series or authors that you find
link |
Maybe another way to ask that is like, what's the greatest
link |
sci fi book of all time?
link |
Well, I'd like to start by sharing something that I'm
link |
embarrassed about is that I haven't read anything other
link |
than, you know, Orson Scott Card, J.R. Tolkien,
link |
Frank Herbert Tolkien.
link |
Yeah, I'm aware through Wikipedia and through surface
link |
reading of things that like a book called the Republic
link |
There were some other...
link |
Do you read Wikipedia?
link |
You're a prolific reader of Wikipedia articles.
link |
Well, or occasional.
link |
Occasional reader.
link |
In between whatever else it is that I waste my time on.
link |
But yeah, so I also, I should say, I posted on Reddit
link |
questions for Ryan Hall and there's like a million
link |
questions, but like half of them have to do with Dune.
link |
But like people bring up Dune.
link |
I don't understand why.
link |
Did you mention Dune before?
link |
Well, actually, we actually have a showy role actually
link |
made us a Gi, a Dune themed Gi one time, which I thought
link |
I'll give you one.
link |
We got extra stuff.
link |
But actually, to your point, actually, this is Orson Scott
link |
Card quote, actually the writer of Ender's Game.
link |
Fiction, because it's not about somebody who actually
link |
lived in the real world always has the possibility of being
link |
And I think that's a neat thing because I have heard other
link |
people whom I respect and very sharp people actually every
link |
now and then dig their heels and going, I don't like fiction.
link |
I only like nonfiction.
link |
It's more instructive.
link |
And I would go, I completely disagree with that.
link |
I think we have a hard enough time figuring out what happened
link |
at 711 three hours ago that, let me tell you what happened
link |
I'm like, hey, I'm interested.
link |
But don't tell me this isn't a story too.
link |
There's factual components, I have no doubt.
link |
But we struggle sometimes to like, I guess what I like
link |
about fiction is that you can tell me a story.
link |
It's all about people.
link |
I mean, every now there's more and less believable things.
link |
And I think Dune would be an unbelievably well written,
link |
in my opinion, for to run, what do I know?
link |
But I really liked doing, I'll say that well written example
link |
of human beings interacting with one another, the political
link |
component to that, the emotional, the intellectual, the
link |
relationship components, all of that.
link |
And I think that Dune is neat because it's a sci fi, not
link |
a sci fi novel, but only in the only in the loosest sense.
link |
It's really a story about religion, about group dynamics,
link |
about human potential, about belief, learning, politics,
link |
governance, ecology.
link |
It's the best stories remind me of history the same way
link |
history hopefully is not just a list of facts that I try to be
link |
able to recall or factoids that I try to recall, but a story
link |
that I can understand and see how the threads of time kind
link |
of came together and created certain things.
link |
And a lot of times, like we say, I'm like, how the heck is
link |
what's going on right now or 100 years from now or 100 years
link |
in the past happened.
link |
And you can look back far enough.
link |
If we had accurate knowledge, if we had that hypothetical
link |
perfect pool shot at the beginning of time, we would see
link |
an unbroken chain of events that led us to where we are and
link |
where we are will potentially lead us to where we're going,
link |
which is, again, why hindsight is helpful.
link |
But I think it's neat.
link |
Like, I guess I really enjoy, for instance, a book like
link |
Dune, and they're actually making a movie out of it, which
link |
I'm skeptical of, to be honest, because it's going to be
link |
difficult to bring that to the screen for a variety of
link |
reasons, but there's at least a hundred questions.
link |
Ask Ryan, what do you think about the new Dune movie?
link |
I am not enough of an authority to have any sort of decent
link |
opinion, but I guess what I would say is so much of it
link |
goes on in the character's mind.
link |
Like how much of any of our days is any lived experience,
link |
as it were, is internal, but the majority, how many times
link |
are people walking around and, you know, they're like, hey,
link |
what do you see right now?
link |
I'm like, oh, well, I see this picture.
link |
But really what I was paying attention to was what was
link |
going on inside of my head for a moment, and almost the rest
link |
of the world tuned out and kind of dimmed.
link |
And I guess I think that's going to be a struggle to any
link |
time you want to bring that type of a written story to a
link |
I think it's going to be more difficult, but it'll be
link |
It's definitely one of my favorite stories, and it's
link |
honestly helped me become better at life, in my opinion,
link |
better at martial arts.
link |
And I think the writer, I think Frank Herbert was absolutely
link |
brilliant, whether those were all his ideas, which are not
link |
None of us or all of our good ideas aren't ours.
link |
We're a combination.
link |
Maybe it came up with something you're a curator of other
link |
good ideas and some things you borrowed from somewhere
link |
without even realizing it.
link |
But I think the way the messages and the themes and the
link |
ideas that were conveyed, particularly in the original
link |
novel, are just absolutely brilliant.
link |
Is that to you one of the greats and the flip side of
link |
that, or another way to ask that is if somebody is new to
link |
sci fi, is that something you would recommend that is an
link |
I'm not well read enough in the sci fi world.
link |
I haven't read a lot of Isaac Asimov or anything like that,
link |
but I'll recommend Dune.
link |
I'll be an obnoxious evangelist for Dune to anyone who'll
link |
So yeah, I would strongly recommend it.
link |
So the other thing you mentioned, now I should
link |
probably be talking to you about much more important
link |
things, but the other thing is Skyrim.
link |
Do you play video games?
link |
What's your favorite game?
link |
What's what would you say is the greatest video game of
link |
Because I'm a huge fan of Elder Scrolls.
link |
I mean, I play a little bit at this point.
link |
You know, a little less finally moves into a new house.
link |
So you're like an adult.
link |
I'm like a better funded 12 year old.
link |
Yeah, that's yeah, that's entirely that's entirely
link |
Better funded 12 year old.
link |
But somewhat better funded 12 year old.
link |
Not as well funded as I wish.
link |
But historically, did you play video games?
link |
Oh, yeah, I played as a kid.
link |
I was, you know, again, I've always liked playing sports
link |
and liked reading and I always enjoyed video games.
link |
But my favorite video game I think I've ever played was
link |
Knights of the Old Republic.
link |
It was a Star Wars game.
link |
A huge Star Wars fan until it become less so recently.
link |
You don't like the, I haven't watched it yet.
link |
Oh, don't go there.
link |
Oh, actually, I like Mandalorian.
link |
That was actually pretty cool.
link |
Yeah, waving this off.
link |
Yeah, yeah, I will.
link |
If I could cancel one thing, I would cancel Disney Star Wars.
link |
I'm going to edit that part out.
link |
Okay, let's go to the next.
link |
But this is where if people are wondering if you're watching
link |
this on YouTube and like the dislike amount is like 80%
link |
it's because of that comment.
link |
Good job for making the internet hate you.
link |
Now, what about Baby Yoda?
link |
Yeah, I guess he's like little.
link |
He's got ears and he uses the force sometimes and he passes
link |
No qualms with Baby Yoda.
link |
Yeah, you don't have a heart.
link |
Okay, let's go to Jiu Jitsu if it's okay.
link |
So the audience of this podcast may not know much about Jiu Jitsu
link |
or they do because it's really part of the culture now,
link |
but they don't really know much.
link |
They see that so many people have fallen in love with it,
link |
have been transformed through it, but they don't know much
link |
about like, what is this thing?
link |
Is there a way you could sort of try to explain what is
link |
Jiu Jitsu, what is the essence of this martial art that's
link |
captured the minds and hearts of so many people in the world?
link |
I think that Jiu Jitsu is a philosophy that's expressed
link |
physically and that it's the kind of development of the
link |
mental capacity and physical capacity working in unison to
link |
move efficiently and almost flowingly, unresistingly with
link |
a given situation, with a physically resisting opponent.
link |
Learning how to generate force on your own and how to steal
link |
force from the floor, how to steal force from the other
link |
person and move in concert with it as opposed to clash
link |
against, which if you watch two untrained people fight,
link |
it's almost entirely a clash.
link |
It's a runaway and clash, a runaway and clash.
link |
If you watch Jiu Jitsu done well, it looks like water
link |
moving around a solid structure.
link |
And I think that that is expressed physically.
link |
And I think that all of the things that anyone has really
link |
been able to do very, very well in Jiu Jitsu end up kind
link |
of exemplifying that.
link |
But I think that's true of martial arts in general.
link |
I think that a lot of times like the clashing that we see
link |
going on and working well is just the fact that it's
link |
you know, you get very, very physically powerful people
link |
every now and then they're able to get away with this.
link |
But I don't think that that's, and that's fantastic
link |
because ultimately it's a results driven thing.
link |
But I think that the essence of the martial arts is learning
link |
how to make more out of less and how to move with
link |
and be yielding, almost like real life Aikido.
link |
And so you think of martial arts, Jiu Jitsu as like water
link |
or flowing, so Aikido, so moving around a solid structure
link |
so Aikido, so moving around the force as opposed to sort of
link |
maybe the wrestling mindset is finding a leverage
link |
where you can apply an exceptional amount of force.
link |
So like, so like maximizing the application of force.
link |
I guess maybe that's a better way to, I'd like to marry
link |
the two ideas, you know, because I think you flow
link |
until the point at which you are the greater force
link |
at which point in time you can apply.
link |
But if you look at the best wrestlers and then when I say
link |
best, I don't necessarily mean most successful
link |
although of course most successful are always very
link |
very good throughout the course of history in boxing
link |
in wrestling, in Judo, they're magical.
link |
They disappear and reappear.
link |
It's like fighting a ghost that is like incorporeal
link |
when you want to find it.
link |
But then when you don't want it to find it
link |
when you don't want to find it, it finds you.
link |
And I think that we see that in the like the Bufais
link |
or societies of wrestling.
link |
And you know, I guess you could look at a Floyd Mayweather
link |
or Willie Pep or you know, Prunell Whitaker in boxing
link |
as brilliant examples of disappearing and reappearing.
link |
And when you're strong, it's almost like guerrilla warfare.
link |
When you're strong, I'm nowhere to be found.
link |
When you're weak, you can't get rid of me.
link |
And I think that's what we're looking for.
link |
Yes, the TF brothers are incredible at that.
link |
They just, they look like skinny Starbucks baristas
link |
and they just manhandle everybody like effortlessly.
link |
They look like they just kind of woke up,
link |
rolled out of bed, fighting for like the gold medal
link |
at the Olympics and just effortlessly throw,
link |
like there's a match against, I guess, Yul Romero.
link |
Yeah, so like, you know, if you look at like
link |
who is the guy who's like intimidating in this case
link |
and terrifying looking, it's Yul Romero,
link |
just like a physical specimen
link |
and obviously like a super accomplished wrestler.
link |
I think this is for the gold medal, yeah.
link |
And then there, this is the year you all took silver.
link |
And what you, like, just to show you like
link |
there's a inside trip, effortless.
link |
Uchi, and he does it again.
link |
Yep, you know, it's a really creative kind of wrestling
link |
where it's organic.
link |
Yeah, you throw in all of these kinds of things.
link |
This is a mix of judo, a mix of like weird kind of moves.
link |
It's not like as funky as Ben Askren.
link |
It's just like legitimate, basic.
link |
Well, it's not funky for funky sake.
link |
And I'm not poking at Ben Askren to imply
link |
that that's what he's doing, but it's like, it's funny.
link |
It's like, a lot of times it's almost like Musashi
link |
talked a lot about that.
link |
You know, that the only goal of combat is to win
link |
is the outcome is it's outcome driven
link |
versus like flourishing, you know, cool looking movements.
link |
It's like, unless that had a utilitarian purpose,
link |
like what are you wasting your time with that?
link |
Both in the fight and also, you know, in practice.
link |
But as you mentioned, it's almost like it looks like judo.
link |
It looks like wrestling, it looks like jujitsu.
link |
It's almost like, I guess the reminds me
link |
all of the martial arts is again, deeply tribal as well.
link |
I wanna learn Lex Fridman, martial arts.
link |
And then I wanna learn another, you know,
link |
I guess, transcendent person's martial arts.
link |
And it just happened to be the set of movements
link |
that you tended to do most of the time,
link |
thanks to your body type and your opposition and whatnot.
link |
But then I try to codify that and force those to work
link |
as opposed to going, I wanna understand how the body works
link |
in concert and in Congress with something else
link |
and other forces and move appropriately.
link |
And that's why it's like, it always struck me
link |
that the Saiki brothers are great examples
link |
of just moving like water, but they,
link |
to use Bruce Lee, which is a little trite,
link |
but again, he's brilliant.
link |
It's like water can flow or water can crash.
link |
And they would crash when they needed to crash
link |
and they would flow when they needed to flow,
link |
but they would flow for the purpose of dissipating
link |
and then crash when they would win.
link |
And at the right moment, then go back to flowing
link |
the second that the other person found them.
link |
And it's just, it's beautiful to watch, it's artistic.
link |
And I think that that great expression of anything physical
link |
is ultimately studied as a science,
link |
but expressed as an art.
link |
And I think that that's something that gets lost
link |
in jujitsu a lot of times when it gets a little bit,
link |
a little nerdy, like do this hand here, hand here.
link |
Like it's like the more details I have,
link |
the better when in reality, that's just not,
link |
not in my experience, how it's done.
link |
Might be fun exercise of saying like,
link |
what are the main positions and submissions
link |
in the art of jujitsu?
link |
You don't have to be complete, that's a ridiculously,
link |
I apologize for putting you on a spot like this,
link |
but it might be a nice exercise to think through it.
link |
Sure, I mean, I would just say that there,
link |
you have your arms bend in various ways.
link |
You have key lock Americana, straight arm locks,
link |
Kimura, omoplata, omoplata is a Kimura,
link |
Kimura is an omoplata, it's just executed.
link |
Breaking off your arm in all kinds of ways.
link |
But ultimately, the question is,
link |
let's say you were a Terminator,
link |
like a robot that I, which of course you are.
link |
It's like, all right, so we're being completely literal.
link |
But, and I couldn't harm you with any of these things.
link |
Would I still use these positions?
link |
The answer is yes.
link |
They create leverage, they create control,
link |
they create shapes that I can affect
link |
and that can affect me and they can be affected
link |
through other forces and other objects or structures
link |
like the ground or the wall.
link |
I really enjoy mixed martial arts
link |
because there's another component
link |
rather than just me and you and the floor,
link |
there's me, you, the floor, and the wall.
link |
And it's another player in the game
link |
that doesn't exist in a grappling context
link |
with a non enclosed, I guess, area of combat.
link |
But you can strangle me or choke me,
link |
what do you call it, without my arms being involved,
link |
or you can use one of my shoulders
link |
to pin one side of my, one carotid artery off
link |
and you can enclose the other.
link |
You can turn my knee in the exact same ways
link |
that you can turn my arm straight this way and that way.
link |
You can add a rotation to that
link |
or it can be directly linear against the joint.
link |
So I guess what I would say is the more
link |
that I've been able to understand jiu jitsu,
link |
the more that I've been, it's given me a look
link |
into how we learn language where rather
link |
than learning five bazillion adjectives,
link |
I go, I understand what an adjective is.
link |
And of course we are all read
link |
into some degree of vocabulary.
link |
I understand what an adverb does
link |
and I understand what an adverb is.
link |
I know what a noun is.
link |
I know what the component parts of a sentence are.
link |
I know what, you know, I guess a clause,
link |
a contraction, any of these things.
link |
And it allows you to be interesting and artistic
link |
with your language to the extent that you can.
link |
But I can't, like I can speak a degree of Spanish,
link |
but I'm not even slightly artistic in Spanish.
link |
I would be something, I speak like a child
link |
with a head injury.
link |
And anyway, the I.
link |
Your basic understanding of the English language
link |
allows you to then be a student of Spanish.
link |
100%, but I'm limited by my experience.
link |
I'm limited by my understanding of techniques.
link |
I'm limited by my understanding, almost like,
link |
let's say techniques are like these are like vocabulary.
link |
So even if I kind of sort of grasp the sentence structure
link |
and the thought process and the thought patterns
link |
of Spanish, which it's interesting
link |
because just even though the orientation
link |
and the organization of a language,
link |
and I've thought about this a great deal,
link |
you know, the way that I perceive the world
link |
is affected deeply by the language that I learned.
link |
The, you know, the, again, if I learned,
link |
I have no idea how the Chinese language structures,
link |
but I can only imagine that it would be,
link |
that it would affect, it's like a different lens.
link |
We're all looking at the same thing,
link |
but I have a different set of sunglasses on than you do.
link |
And that's very, very interesting.
link |
I'll use the Quran as an example.
link |
You know, apparently it's unbelievably poetic
link |
and in Arabic, still neat
link |
and was interesting reading in English,
link |
but I'm told by people that I trust
link |
that it just one doesn't bear a resemblance to the other.
link |
And I think that's a very interesting thing
link |
that you may be able to say the same thing,
link |
but in a more, I guess, in a different way,
link |
in a more artistic way that may not translate
link |
on a one for one kind of fidelity.
link |
But the more that we're able to understand
link |
about how the body works,
link |
the more examples of the body working this way,
link |
the body working that way, the body working that way,
link |
the more that I'm able to eventually become an artist,
link |
but it has to be studied as a science first.
link |
And it does start with technique collection,
link |
vocabulary collection, the same way we learn in school.
link |
You remember how to say quickly 17 different ways.
link |
And let's say I speak Spanish, I'm only, I only know three.
link |
So you might use quickly, you might use an adjective
link |
like quickly in Spanish, but use one of the many,
link |
many options to describe that, that I don't understand.
link |
And now I sit there and go like, wait, what?
link |
I can't be artistic.
link |
I can't be as organic with the language as I'd like.
link |
So I believe that jujitsu a lot of times starts
link |
with the acquisition of a lot of, hey, do this, this,
link |
this drill, this technique.
link |
Here's an Americana, Americana to an armlock,
link |
armlock to a triangle.
link |
But the problem with that is oftentimes
link |
we get stuck in that phase.
link |
And people eventually become move collectors
link |
or sequence collectors.
link |
And I noticed this when I'm trying to do DVDs
link |
or I guess like an instructional series now,
link |
or even teaching in class,
link |
I don't believe in that form of learning anymore.
link |
Not that it's not valuable, but I don't believe,
link |
I don't understand jujitsu on that level anymore.
link |
So what I'm trying to do is get across the basic ideas
link |
to people and say, hey, you need to fill in the gaps
link |
with going to class all the time.
link |
You need to go, hey, learn this move, learn that technique,
link |
learn that technique.
link |
Because otherwise I'm basically just throwing at you
link |
like 75 different words that you could use,
link |
but that hasn't really taught you how to speak a language.
link |
Whereas if you give me a language structure,
link |
you can fill in these pieces on your own
link |
and then eventually speak organically in Lex form,
link |
which will be ultimately unique to you
link |
because otherwise you just end up being like a weird facsimile
link |
of whatever it is that I'm doing
link |
for mostly the worst I'd say, but.
link |
Yeah, that's what people, I mean, people comment like,
link |
is this, especially people who haven't listened to me before,
link |
is this guy drunk or high?
link |
Does he, does MIT really allow slow people to be,
link |
like what's. Quotas.
link |
Like what's wrong with him?
link |
Is he getting sleep?
link |
Does he need help?
link |
So that's similar with my jiu jitsu.
link |
It's like, is this guy, is this guy really,
link |
whatever rank I was throughout,
link |
I remember just like, is this guy really this rank?
link |
I just have a very kind of certain way of sitting
link |
and being slow and lazy looking
link |
that there was ultimately the language
link |
that I had to discover.
link |
And it was, it was, yeah,
link |
it was a very liberating moment.
link |
I think of probably a few years of getting my ass kicked,
link |
especially with Open Guard and butterfly
link |
to where you really allow yourself
link |
to take in the entirety of the language
link |
and realize that, that I'm not, I'm different.
link |
I'm a unique, I'm unique.
link |
And like, I have a very, I have a language,
link |
I have a set of techniques,
link |
a way I move my body that needs,
link |
that I'm the one to discover.
link |
Like it's, you can only,
link |
you can learn specific techniques and so on,
link |
but you really have to understand your own body.
link |
And that's the beautiful thing about jiu jitsu,
link |
like you said, is like the connection about your philosophy,
link |
your view of the world with the physical
link |
and like connecting those two things,
link |
how you perceive the world,
link |
how you interpret ideas of the world about exhaustion,
link |
about force, about effortlessness,
link |
like what it really means to relax,
link |
all these kinds of loose concepts,
link |
and then actually teach your body to like do those things
link |
and like, you know, and be able to apply force and spurts,
link |
be able to relax and spurts
link |
and like figure all that stuff out for my,
link |
for my individual body.
link |
But it's, as you mentioned,
link |
I couldn't agree with you more, it's a discovery process
link |
and no one can cheat that process,
link |
which is at the same time,
link |
it's almost like imagine I wanna start writing books
link |
in second grade, unless maybe I'm like staggeringly brilliant,
link |
which I can only conceptualize someone being able to do that,
link |
but maybe a Mozart of the English language
link |
where you're out there doing it.
link |
But for most of us, we don't have enough knowledge,
link |
enough information, enough experience
link |
to be able to be, to express ourselves.
link |
So we have to basically input, repeat, which is important,
link |
but it's the process, as you say,
link |
of going through that, of getting your ass kicked,
link |
of just like, well, that didn't work,
link |
well, that didn't work, that felt right,
link |
but I don't know, nobody else does that,
link |
I guess I don't believe in that,
link |
versus eventually going, I don't know,
link |
I'll just try going my own way and see what happens
link |
and now I'll get yelled at and people won't like me
link |
and if it works, they'll say I got lucky
link |
and if it doesn't work, they'll say I was dumb,
link |
but which one, maybe all is right.
link |
But basically, you know,
link |
going through that iterative process
link |
that allows you to eventually find your self expression
link |
and find your voice so that you fight
link |
the same way that you speak, the same way that you write,
link |
the same way that you think in a way that is uniquely you,
link |
that will also ultimately allow you
link |
to understand other people being uniquely them
link |
because even if you can only conceptualize,
link |
and I think about this a lot for society stuff,
link |
where I go, well, this is how I feel about this,
link |
but am I objectively right?
link |
Maybe about a couple things, but that's a small box
link |
that I have to be very, very careful about
link |
what I think is objective versus what's not
link |
and I have to be open to the possibility
link |
of all the things that I think are objectively correct
link |
may or may not be.
link |
And that should allow me to have some degree
link |
of compassion or consideration for other people,
link |
both in their martial arts journey
link |
and in their journey as people, as human beings,
link |
because I understand that they're on a,
link |
it's a, we're all on a path where it's all,
link |
again, an iterative process of eventual self expression,
link |
but I think that's one of the things
link |
that we see having trouble when we see tribalism,
link |
which, I mean, racism, expression of that,
link |
political affiliation, expression of that,
link |
all of these things that can go
link |
in really uncomfortable directions.
link |
People are looking for,
link |
hey, where do I plant my feet over here?
link |
Where's the thing that I know is right?
link |
And we can all agree on the following.
link |
And I think that we see that in martial arts.
link |
We're like, oh, I do this style, I do that style,
link |
It's like, hey, man, we're all just pushing forward
link |
in a certain direction here, trying to do our best.
link |
And I understand why you feel the way you do.
link |
I may have felt like that at one point too,
link |
but I'm just trying to learn and understand
link |
versus I've already acquired enough knowledge,
link |
let me cross my arms and start to look
link |
who's fucking up around here.
link |
And I think that that's an, it's an interesting trap
link |
that I think is very human trap to fall into,
link |
but it definitely happens early on.
link |
It's, I mean, it's a joke in the jiu jitsu world, right?
link |
Like, oh, the blue belt that knows everything.
link |
Well, initially it's like, what, I know nothing
link |
and I at least think I know nothing.
link |
Then I'd learn a little bit and I think it's a lot bit.
link |
And then, you know, the more you learn,
link |
the more you go like, I don't even know what I'm doing.
link |
Yeah, that's exactly right.
link |
We kind of talked about it a little bit,
link |
but once again, a lot of people that listen to this
link |
have never been on the mat, have never tried jiu jitsu,
link |
but are really curious about it.
link |
Everybody at all positions, like I think, you know,
link |
most kids are not doing jiu jitsu.
link |
Andrew Yang is like, they're all, you know,
link |
the world is curious.
link |
It's a, it's a nice, it seems to be a nice methodology
link |
by which to humble your ego,
link |
which to grow intellectually and physically.
link |
So people are curious about it.
link |
So the natural question is if they're curious about it,
link |
how would you recommend they get started?
link |
Maybe like, what do you recommend the first day,
link |
week, month, year, first couple of years look like?
link |
Like, how do you ease into it
link |
and make sure that it's a positive experience
link |
and you progress in the most optimal and positive way?
link |
The first thing you can do is simply ask yourself why,
link |
why you want to be involved.
link |
You know, I remember the first day that I walked into
link |
Ronin Athletics in New York City
link |
to train under Godfather of my son now,
link |
Christian Montes, and I didn't know
link |
what I was getting myself into.
link |
I played baseball through high school
link |
and I wanted, I was at Manhattan College in the Bronx
link |
and I wanted to go and learn martial arts
link |
because it was always something that was interesting to me,
link |
but it was never something that I knew was accessible
link |
and it definitely wasn't really around
link |
in Northern Virginia where I grew up,
link |
whereas then you stick yourself in Manhattan
link |
and there's stuff everywhere.
link |
So anyway, I guess I didn't know what to expect.
link |
I didn't know if I was going to get beat up,
link |
if people were going to be nice,
link |
if people were not going to be nice,
link |
but what I began with was, I think, expectation management.
link |
And I think that that's something that I would,
link |
that'd be the first thing that I would start
link |
is almost imagining what is it that I'm getting myself into
link |
because I love the martial arts.
link |
The martial arts has given me everything in life
link |
and I'm so thankful I wouldn't be sitting here
link |
without that experience, that journey.
link |
The people that I've met, the places that I've gone,
link |
I could never, ever have ever imagined.
link |
And I'm just unbelievably thankful for that.
link |
But I think that the thing that helped me most of all
link |
was starting with going,
link |
my mom said something to me one time and she said,
link |
there's two types of people in various situations.
link |
There's why and there's why not.
link |
And it's understandable to have questions, concerns,
link |
But maybe sometimes it's a little bit easier
link |
when you're younger to just trust people
link |
or just say, I don't know, you know.
link |
But we go, hey, you wanna climb that rock?
link |
I'm like, yeah, why not?
link |
Hey, you wanna jump in that river?
link |
Versus if I have to reason my way into everything,
link |
if I have to be talked into everything,
link |
a lot of times I'll talk myself out of it.
link |
And I think that a lot of times
link |
this is the thinker's disease.
link |
You wanna figure out what's gonna happen
link |
and what you should expect to have happen
link |
before you get involved versus going,
link |
using the old Bruce Lee saying again,
link |
it's like no amount of thinking or training
link |
on the side of the river will teach you how to swim.
link |
You have to jump in.
link |
And there are risks associated with that.
link |
And I guess psychological are usually the biggest ones.
link |
That's the biggest hurdle.
link |
But the biggest thing that I guess I would suggest
link |
to anyone to say, well, why do you wanna do this?
link |
You're like, well, I wanna challenge myself.
link |
I wanna learn, I would like to learn to fight.
link |
I wanted to learn to fight so that I could protect myself.
link |
And if anything else, other people,
link |
if only within arms reach.
link |
I perceived that if I had some small degree of power,
link |
I generally wouldn't use it.
link |
Which is why I was like, yeah, I'll give it a try.
link |
I'll try to be reasonable.
link |
And hopefully if I make a mistake,
link |
I'll apologize to people.
link |
But basically I said, yeah, I'd like to have that.
link |
And I wanna, I know this is gonna be challenging
link |
and we'll see what happens.
link |
And that means that getting beat up
link |
and I didn't get like hurt, but getting roughed up,
link |
getting my arm bent this way or that way, getting choked.
link |
I was like, well, this is all supposed to happen.
link |
That's no big deal.
link |
It would be like going and joining the army
link |
during peacetime and then going,
link |
oh, I'm just doing this for college education.
link |
You know, like, okay, that's cool, man.
link |
And then all of a sudden war breaks out
link |
and they wanna send me somewhere.
link |
And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
link |
I didn't sign up for that.
link |
Actually you did, whether you realize it or not.
link |
You may not have thought that you did, but you did.
link |
So getting your mind right and just going,
link |
what are my expectations for this activity?
link |
What is it that I'm looking to do?
link |
And of course, you know, you're going into a gym,
link |
you're going into a place that you don't know people,
link |
you probably don't know people
link |
and you don't know the coach.
link |
And even if you do wanna, hey, how you doing?
link |
Shake your hand, type of level.
link |
You know, 95% of my students don't know me.
link |
Not really, you know, I'll try to be polite
link |
and not annoy them too much,
link |
but they don't know me and I don't know them.
link |
I understand if they don't trust me,
link |
I wouldn't trust, trust me either if I were them.
link |
But at the same time, someone has to take that leap.
link |
And one of the things that I've noticed
link |
as a martial arts instructor,
link |
that's the biggest struggle with dealing with adults,
link |
which is why a lot of people like to teach kids
link |
is because kids don't ask, don't argue.
link |
Now that also means there's all sorts of pitfalls
link |
or that sort of thing, and that can be an issue.
link |
But you know, I guess a lot of times people get to a point
link |
in their life, you know, in their 20s, early 30s,
link |
where now I'm a manager now, I know what I'm doing.
link |
No one talks to me like that.
link |
First it's like, hey man, you go join bootcamp,
link |
I don't care if you are Elon Musk,
link |
they're gonna tell you to shut up and do pushups.
link |
And that's what's great about it.
link |
So you are taking a leap of faith into a world
link |
that you're gonna be a tiny fish.
link |
And you gotta hope that the people who are guiding you
link |
in that journey are gonna have,
link |
I can't even say your best interests at heart
link |
because they don't even know you,
link |
but they'll try to do no harm.
link |
And they'll try to help you
link |
in the way that they would understand.
link |
And I guess that's, for instance,
link |
that's what I would try to do with anyone
link |
that comes into my gym.
link |
I would try to help them in the way
link |
that I understand they need as best I can
link |
and as safe and reasonable a way as possible,
link |
but sometimes in a way that's gonna make them uncomfortable,
link |
particularly if physical combat,
link |
and it's not something they've done before.
link |
If a lot of people go in without even having played,
link |
you know, contact sports, and so that can be a big jump.
link |
And you have to understand,
link |
if that's where you're starting from, no worries,
link |
but you're gonna have to kind of work your way to it,
link |
and it's gonna be uncomfortable, and that's okay.
link |
It's part of the process,
link |
and you're gonna have some bumps and bruises,
link |
and you're not gonna wanna roll with that guy in the corner
link |
because that person's rough, and they beat you up,
link |
and they're like, okay, but is this a big hurt
link |
or is it a little hurt?
link |
If it's a big hurt, okay.
link |
If it's a little hurt,
link |
need you to center up a little bit.
link |
It's such an interesting balance because to find,
link |
I think one of the most important things
link |
as in anything, I think, in life
link |
is the selection of the people that you put around you.
link |
I mean, that's true with like getting married.
link |
That's true with like if you go to,
link |
if people ask me, like graduate students,
link |
like your PhD advisor can be the difference.
link |
It's like you spend five years with somebody,
link |
they're going to basically define more impact on you
link |
than anybody you marry, anybody you hang out with.
link |
It's a huge impact.
link |
And the same with the coach selection,
link |
which is like the school selection,
link |
is it's going to be really important about
link |
in terms of like who you select will define how happy,
link |
like the trajectory of your growth
link |
and how happy you are with the entirety of the experience.
link |
And yet, like the flip side of that is,
link |
especially if you have an ego,
link |
especially if you are the manager
link |
that needs to let go of some stuff,
link |
you're going to feel like shit
link |
with the best kind of coach.
link |
That's what you need.
link |
But there's a weird balance there to find.
link |
Like, I mean, like, and everybody needs a different thing.
link |
Like I'm much more, I enjoy being sort of like,
link |
it sounds weird, but like I'm, you know,
link |
from the wrestling background,
link |
I enjoy feeling like crap in the sense like the coach,
link |
like getting beat up.
link |
I don't actually enjoy it.
link |
It's not like some masochistic thing or whatever.
link |
It's like, it's the growth.
link |
Like I like the anxiety.
link |
I like feeling like shit when I go home,
link |
like emotionally, physically, it's like, it's growth.
link |
It's a sign of growth, right?
link |
Like if you're not having to feel those things,
link |
you're probably in your comfort zone, which is fine,
link |
but that's not your growth zone, right?
link |
And everybody has a different threshold for that.
link |
And I mean, the beautiful thing about jiu jitsu is like,
link |
it's also has like a yoga feel to it.
link |
Like you're learning about your body.
link |
So depending on the gym and depending on, in fact,
link |
the coaches or the people around you within the gym,
link |
you can select little groups too, kind of like the people
link |
with who you roll, like if you're a smaller person,
link |
it doesn't mean you have to go against big people.
link |
You can go against the people who like smoke a lot of weed
link |
and they're chill, or you can go against like that crazy
link |
red blue belt competitor who's like out to destroy everybody.
link |
And depending on like what your mindset is,
link |
you can kind of select that.
link |
It's such a fascinating journey of like,
link |
basically self discovery.
link |
I couldn't agree with you more.
link |
It's, I mean, what you need may change over time, right?
link |
Maybe what you needed, what you need today
link |
could change six months from now or a year from now.
link |
And that's something that I experienced.
link |
I'll use my first coach Christian, again,
link |
as a great example of someone who I really look up to
link |
and respect and someone who helped me a lot.
link |
Like at a time when I really needed some guidance
link |
and I needed to learn martial arts, but get into,
link |
Hensel Gracie's gym was right down the street
link |
from where Christian was teaching.
link |
And Christian was a blue belt at the time.
link |
It was, he was teaching at a place called Fight House,
link |
which was this awesome, like, you know, like 90s,
link |
early 2000s, you know, warehouse area down
link |
on Fashion Avenue in Manhattan,
link |
off of like between 7th and 8th.
link |
And it was like two basketball courts wide,
link |
but like there was the Sambo guys over here.
link |
There was the Kali guys over there.
link |
There was a Wing Chun over there.
link |
There was Jiu Jitsu in the corner.
link |
And Hensel's was one of the most famous academies
link |
in the world at that time, still is.
link |
And I just didn't know what Hensel Gracie was.
link |
And I mean, it's a great gym
link |
and it's a fantastic place for people to train.
link |
But I think what was right for me at the time was to,
link |
I stumbled into, you know, like a two person elevator up
link |
and found a place where six people trained at that time.
link |
And I had someone that could give me some,
link |
like in addition to martial arts advice,
link |
like personal guidance.
link |
And that made a big difference.
link |
And then when initially we would have like competitions
link |
or like intra, you know, gym competitions
link |
with the Sambo guys, we would compete,
link |
we would roll with them.
link |
And like, again, it was great
link |
because they were just a bunch of like Russian dudes
link |
from like Brighton Beach.
link |
And they would come down and then we would all fight.
link |
And then everyone would train
link |
and we'd all drink tea and then go home.
link |
And anyway, what was, it was super tough.
link |
And they were like, again, just a tough group of people.
link |
And then I remember when I decided
link |
after like four or five months,
link |
I'm like, man, I really want to try to take this seriously.
link |
And I told Christian about that.
link |
And he's like, well, hey,
link |
I think you need to do the following.
link |
And it was, you know, like, hey, here's,
link |
there was a guy named Jeff Ruth,
link |
who was a purple belt at the time,
link |
which was a much bigger deal than it is now,
link |
but it was 10 and always an MMA fighter,
link |
a lot of amateur box spirit, super tough dude.
link |
And Jeff was the best person at that time
link |
that I'd ever trained with.
link |
And I just got squashed.
link |
Christian used to beat me up too,
link |
but like Jeff would just absolutely kick the crap out of me.
link |
And I was like, this is awesome.
link |
And this was back when I was at home.
link |
I went home for the summer for that.
link |
And Chris is like, hey, I think you should stay because I told him that's what I was thinking.
link |
And this was a coach that, you know, when it's like when initially was exactly what I needed.
link |
And then he's like, well, hey, that's not what I'm doing here.
link |
Maybe they're going to be able to help you onto a path that's,
link |
that's kind of commensurate with what your goals are at the moment.
link |
And then, you know, that was an, that was an interesting thing.
link |
And I really got, I feel that I was fortunate to start at a place where my coach was able to transition roles
link |
and, and, and do so comfortably.
link |
And I think that that also was probably a factor of the fact that, you know,
link |
where he'd done some of his training prior, like there've been issues with, with the coach there.
link |
We're like not supporting, not having the support, you know, feeling like, hey,
link |
like I'm going to hold onto my students.
link |
I'm gonna hold onto my best guy or my best girl, even if I can't take them where they need to go.
link |
So that was an interesting thing.
link |
And just recognizing also though, that the people like the same way you're an individual going into a gym
link |
and you don't know what you're getting into your coach is a person too.
link |
And he or she, you know, they may have been doing this activity longer than you, but they're not,
link |
they're not some weird little, you know, all knowing God.
link |
They don't know anything.
link |
They may say something that pisses you off.
link |
They may, they may yell at you.
link |
They may help you.
link |
They may inadvertently cause you some sort of, you know, some sort of issue.
link |
And just being able to recognize that even though I say this to people and I've said this to people in my gym,
link |
I'm like, you know, we're in the service industry, man, but I'm not at your service.
link |
Like don't get it twisted.
link |
Like I will absolutely do my best to help people.
link |
I'm there to do my best as a martial arts coach, but I'm here to do my best as a martial arts coach.
link |
And I'll do my best and periodically I make mistakes and I own apology or two,
link |
and I'll try to give them out when I can.
link |
But we're not McDonald's.
link |
It's not, oh, you gave me a hundred bucks, so you do whatever you want in here.
link |
This is, this is a martial arts.
link |
This is not a basketball team.
link |
There's something beautiful about martial arts.
link |
Like exactly as you said is the coach, like in wrestling and at least collegiate,
link |
like high level wrestling is like, there's a dictatorship aspect to a coach that is very important to have.
link |
Like this, this ridiculous sometimes nature of like master and so on and bowing, all these traditions.
link |
There's something, it seems ridiculous from the outside perhaps,
link |
but there's something really powerful to that because that process of you said, why not,
link |
of letting go of the leap of faith requires you to believe that the coach has your best interest in mind
link |
and just give yourself over to their ideas of how, how you should grow.
link |
And that's an interesting thing.
link |
I mean, I've never been able to really see coaches I've had as human.
link |
They're always, you always, it's like a father figure or like this,
link |
you always put them in this position of power.
link |
And I think that's, I think at least for me, it's been a very,
link |
it's been a very useful way to see the coach because it allows you to not think and let go
link |
and really allow yourself to grow and emotionally deal with all the beatings.
link |
Well, they'll push you where past oftentimes where you would have stopped yourself, right?
link |
And then hopefully they know they, if they're paying attention and they're,
link |
they're still a person, they can make mistakes,
link |
but they'll push you further than you would have gone, but not so far that it's not facilitative.
link |
That's something that I can say, like Faraz Zahabi, the head coach at TriStar,
link |
my head coach for MMA, Kenny Florian, one of the head coaches for MMA,
link |
they've both been phenomenal influences.
link |
Paul Shriner, who's the one of the assistants at Marcelo Garcia's Academy,
link |
coached me in Jiu Jitsu for a long time, brilliant instructor.
link |
They've all been able to do that.
link |
And I think what's interesting about all of those guys is they're very sharp,
link |
but they're very intuitive as well.
link |
And I think that Faraz actually, you know, told me about some of the John Wooden said,
link |
John Wooden, the legendary UCLA basketball coach, just a simple philosophical idea.
link |
Just, he said, some people's life is a bowl of shit.
link |
It needs some whipped cream in it.
link |
Some people's life is a bowl of whipped cream.
link |
Needs a little bit of shit in it just to balance it out.
link |
And it's an interesting thing.
link |
Coaching everyone the same way doesn't work.
link |
You know, that's, I think the difference between a coach and an instructor.
link |
And a lot of times people think they want to coach, but they really want an instructor.
link |
I'm like, hey Lex, tell me what to do, not how to do it.
link |
And then other times people think they want, you know, an instructor and they really want a coach.
link |
I'm like, man, this guy's just giving me information.
link |
A coach is so much more than an instructor.
link |
And that's a huge leap.
link |
And that's something that I think that people need to understand when they're going into
link |
And I understand, and I can totally grasp why they don't, because how would they know?
link |
But I think about this a lot, like me giving you $150 for a month, which is not nothing,
link |
That does not, that pays for instructor really.
link |
Coach is a relationship that gets developed because can you imagine like just the amount
link |
of emotional investment and time thinking away from like, oh, Lex isn't here anymore.
link |
What can I do to help him?
link |
What does he need?
link |
Like that's serious.
link |
And that's the difference between, that's oftentimes the difference that getting over
link |
the hump in various situations.
link |
So it's an interesting, you know, bargain that's being made like commitment by the instructor
link |
who becomes a coach, commitment by the student.
link |
You know, like there's a financial transaction.
link |
There's a lot of things going on there, but I feel very fortunate to have had not just
link |
instructors in my time, but coaches.
link |
And that means sometimes we butted heads and sometimes I look back and I think I was right.
link |
And other times I look back on my own, no, they were definitely right.
link |
But there was always the trust with the exception of one time that I feel that trust was greatly
link |
betrayed that rightly or wrongly, whether mistakes, mistakes will be made, but everyone
link |
is attempting to do the right thing under no circumstances.
link |
Is what I intentionally do anything malicious, you know, versus, Hey, I might've done.
link |
I might've burnt your house down, but you can be darn sure it wasn't on purpose.
link |
And I think that as long as there's that mutual understanding and mutual belief of goodwill,
link |
which again, doesn't just magic up out of nowhere.
link |
I think that that's when then great things can happen.
link |
And I look at all the athletes that I know, you know, the guys and girls that I've watched
link |
become fantastic in various places, almost invariably.
link |
It never happened alone.
link |
I'm really torn about that.
link |
Like, maybe you can help.
link |
Have you seen the movie Whiplash?
link |
So it's, I would say from an outsider's perspective, people should watch it.
link |
It's, I guess, jazz band.
link |
It's a movie about a drummer and the instructor.
link |
And he, it's a basically, I would say from the outsider's perspective, it's a toxic
link |
relationship, but he's really the coach, whatever we call him, pushes the musician, the drummer
link |
or to his limits, like to where he just feels like shit emotionally.
link |
It's a, it looks like a toxic relationship, but it's one that ultimately is very productive
link |
for the improvement of the musician.
link |
I have the same, like in my own experience, I had, I got a chance to train at a couple
link |
of places regularly.
link |
And so one of my coaches who is a great human being, a lot of people love him.
link |
But when I was a blue belt, he was pushing me a lot for competition.
link |
And every time I step on the mat, I was anxious and almost afraid of training because of like
link |
the places I'm going to have to go.
link |
And then the, I can't, I don't know what's good or bad because I think I've become a
link |
better person because of that experience.
link |
Like I needed that.
link |
And on the flip side, like the place I got my black belt from, it's Balanced Studios.
link |
I remember also blue belt, the coach sitting down and I was going to competition and he
link |
saw something in me where he said, you know, like, good luck, but win or lose, we always
link |
Like, I, I really, I remember that because I really needed that at that time.
link |
Like I was putting so much pressure on myself.
link |
Like I'm not an actual professional competitor, you know, I just competed.
link |
Like I'm a PhD student, like, but like it was clearly having a psychological effect
link |
on me and that's what a great coach does is like, you know, it's like life is more
link |
important than Jiu Jitsu since it's bigger.
link |
So they find, you use Jiu Jitsu when you need it to grow as a person and when it
link |
overwhelms you, you have to pull that person out, like look at the bigger picture, always
link |
look at the bigger picture and it's fascinating and I don't know what to make of it.
link |
I don't think I would have it any other way is both the anxiety and the, and the love
link |
I think that I couldn't, that's a really interesting thing that you're describing
link |
that I guess it kind of brings me back to a lot of the other things we've been
link |
discussing is just almost like the, the reciprocal nature of everything where no
link |
pressure, that's great.
link |
Everyone's happy all the time.
link |
It's either, I mean, let's, uh, use the example of sci fi movies to see the matrix,
link |
which of course the first one was amazing and then each subsequent movie made the
link |
But, um, but basically, yeah, I've heard, we'll see, I was hoping for the best, but,
link |
um, but basically, uh, you know, let's say, Hey, which we started with our first
link |
initial world agent Smith says to Neo is like our first world was a utopia where
link |
everyone was happy and nothing ever went wrong.
link |
It's like your primitive cerebrum rejected it.
link |
And I think that there's obviously, I mean, what do I think, but I guess, well,
link |
I'm here, so I might as well say what I think.
link |
Um, I guess, uh, you know, great things are fantastic.
link |
A kind, gentle place is fantastic.
link |
And this is again, why I love dune is I think dune does such a great job of, of
link |
expressing Frank Herbert does such a great job of expressing again, the
link |
reciprocal nature of these ideas.
link |
You know, look at, uh, look at Sparta for instance, or at least what I understand
link |
of Sparta from the reading and also watching 300.
link |
Um, uh, you know, and reading the Wikipedia and reading the Wikipedia
link |
article about the movie, not the place.
link |
Um, but, uh, it's, um, that's a hard, brutal place.
link |
And that was their benefit to that.
link |
Was there drawback to that?
link |
Is it sustainable?
link |
I should probably think probably not.
link |
Um, I mean, granted it hasn't sustained, but I mean, that type of a, of a thing,
link |
it, it burns too hot almost.
link |
And it, uh, it, it destroys the host at a certain point.
link |
And, you know, I guess that, that type of unforgiving nature, but in
link |
entirely, entirely permissive has its own issues.
link |
And I guess coming back into your, what your description of like describing a
link |
toxic relationship is a very dangerous and tricky thing because it's almost
link |
like, uh, it's like bird's eye view.
link |
Me, you know, you see, let's say a husband and a wife arguing, you know,
link |
like, all right, well, sort of somebody hitting somebody.
link |
I need to keep myself out of this because I have no idea what I'm seeing
link |
something, but I don't know what's going on or why specifically.
link |
And again, short of it going to a place that, that just out of bounds,
link |
I don't know who's right here.
link |
I don't know who's wrong.
link |
And I don't know what phase of this things are in.
link |
So I guess long term was good for both people.
link |
It's dangerous for it.
link |
So if I want to put my finger on the scale, I can understand the desire to do
link |
them like, Hey guys, let's break it up.
link |
But, and that may be the right thing at the time, but at the same time, I'm not
link |
So I think back to all of the times that.
link |
You know, that like you mentioned, your coach pushing you when very, very hard.
link |
And then other times going like, Hey, let's put it in perspective here.
link |
I think that's an interesting thing for high performance.
link |
And I think that we're seeing that again, societally, you know, now, or at least
link |
maybe that's just pops up on my internet feed periodically but coaches shouldn't
link |
be allowed to do this or yell at this person to yell at that person.
link |
Like, well, have you ever been go to a boxing gym?
link |
It's not a commercial entity.
link |
Not really a real box, not LA boxing, not a USC gym, like a real place.
link |
You're going to see what things are like when it's entirely performance based.
link |
Go to wrestling room at a high level.
link |
You know, again, there's, there's left and right limits and there are such
link |
things obviously as abuse, of course, but, and that should never be tolerated.
link |
Um, but it's not a commercial entity.
link |
I don't need to be sweet to you if you're, if you're screwing up, if you're
link |
dropping the ball and in fact, recognizing that I'm not doing you a favor or the
link |
favor or the team a favor by, by being permissive of that type of behavior.
link |
I think is important.
link |
Everything in its context and at its time is important.
link |
And I guess I can think again at the times that I've been put, put, or had
link |
put on me, like a great deal of pressure to do X, Y, or Z or to succeed, um, or
link |
to push for success.
link |
And I can't look back fondly enough on those times.
link |
They were tough at the time, but without that, I'm not sitting here without that.
link |
I don't go from growing up in a, in a very nice family in the suburbs to fighting at
link |
the highest level in jujitsu, gi, no gi, and now in mixed martial arts, starting a
link |
You know, I don't, it just doesn't happen because people generally speaking from
link |
that background, don't get pushed hard enough physically to be able to make that
link |
And that has benefits and it has drawbacks.
link |
You know, when you stare into the abyss, it stares back.
link |
And I think that that's an important thing to understand.
link |
You know, you stare long enough, you, you can become something that you don't, that
link |
you would be sorry that you did.
link |
You don't look enough and you don't have perspective either.
link |
You know, and I, I think that that's an interesting thing.
link |
I can speak to someone who's relative to being someone who's relatively articulate
link |
I try to be reasonable, but you know, I'll say in sparring, if people get crazy with
link |
me, they get a warning and then I'm a crack them.
link |
And what did they expect?
link |
Oh, they hear the guy on a, on an interview, but who did they think they were meeting?
link |
Cause there's also the guy in the ring and there's layers there too.
link |
I remember training with you.
link |
It was kind of funny.
link |
There's like, there's, well, you didn't know who I was.
link |
I mean, you still like, I have a really good straight ankle up by the way.
link |
So I don't remember what rank I was, but it might've been purple or something like
link |
And I did some, like I, you had this look on your face, which I've often seen in
link |
It's like, here he goes again, like here, here's him trying this thing.
link |
And then when I kind of annoyed you a little bit with it, now I get that it was a good
link |
at like, I, you know, I did something somewhat effective, like some, like maybe a little
link |
There's a, I just peeled off a little layer of Ryan Hall to where I was like, okay, let
link |
me, let me like, there, there's like layers underneath Mike Tyson somewhere in there.
link |
Like, so it was like, okay, this like new guy rolls in here.
link |
He thinks he can do the stupid thing.
link |
And then, and then you started to beat the hell out of me.
link |
But the, the, the point is there's layers here from the guy who was being interviewed
link |
now to like Genghis Khan, but it's, but it's all in the same body.
link |
But it's like, all of us are like that, right.
link |
In various different directions and recognizing that's okay.
link |
It's just, there are consequences to all every choice that we make as a consequence.
link |
Sometimes there's like objectively wrong or objectively right.
link |
But at least in my mind, that's a pretty small box.
link |
Everything else is just, there's a consequence to that.
link |
Do you like that consequence?
link |
And who do I want to become?
link |
What do I want to try to hone myself or anyone else into?
link |
And also like, but this is something I've screwed up as a coach plenty of times.
link |
You know, like if someone says, if you're, if like, I come to them like Lex, I really,
link |
really want to take, you know, research very seriously.
link |
Like, okay, I believe you.
link |
Now I haven't shown you that, but I believe you like, okay.
link |
And now me not showing up to research or to study or not being up until three in the morning
link |
thinking about this is no longer acceptable.
link |
There was a time like five seconds before me making that statement that if I went to
link |
bed without reading the book that I needed to read, no worries.
link |
But the second that I made that statement, your expectations for me changed.
link |
And maybe that's something that I've screwed up a whole bunch of times in my, as a teacher.
link |
Cause it's an interesting thing, obviously, you know, being a, like running a martial
link |
arts school is as you're principally an athlete is sometimes I don't pay enough attention
link |
to what people are doing.
link |
I just go, oh, okay.
link |
I'm like, Roger that.
link |
I will now put you in category X and whether rightly or wrongly, like maybe this person
link |
didn't understand what they were asking for, or I didn't express this or the other.
link |
And it just, it caused cross wires.
link |
And then most times you just, you hash it out.
link |
You have a discussion, you figure out, get to the bottom of what people are trying to
link |
do or what they want.
link |
But if I was paying more attention, I think I could have been a lot more effective.
link |
Or if I had more experience and sometimes maybe I'm not sharp enough or I don't, I'm
link |
not perceptive enough to be able to, to see what's going on.
link |
And maybe with years more down the line, I'll be able to have a sharper perception.
link |
But I think that's another one of those interesting things that some, that sometimes I would caution
link |
or not caution, but just inform a prospective martial arts student, depending upon where
link |
you're going you know, this you, both you and also your coach or other people in the
link |
room, they wear many hats.
link |
And sometimes there's a, I had the wrong hat on.
link |
You were talking to me as Lex the guy.
link |
I didn't realize you were talking to me.
link |
I thought you were talking to me as Lex the guy.
link |
I didn't realize you're talking to me as Lex the martial artist.
link |
I'm like, Oh crap.
link |
I was talking to the wrong person.
link |
So it's almost like if you had a, like I run my gym with my wife, she's a black belt.
link |
She's my peers as a martial artist, uh, in Jiu Jitsu.
link |
He's here by the way, in judging.
link |
So, but, but a fellow black belt.
link |
And I guess like another thing, she doesn't have a microphone, so you can't hear all the
link |
trash she's talking.
link |
But it can be tough.
link |
And that's something that we've had to work through a lot.
link |
And it's like looking back and it's like now being where I'm at now.
link |
And it's easy for me to say that cause she's in the room and I don't want her to stab me,
link |
just continue to slowly poison me over time, which frankly I understand.
link |
Um, you know, it's, it's the sort of thing that is now way more effective than anything
link |
else I could really reasonably expect to have.
link |
Um, but there were times when, when both of us, you know, were justifiably annoyed at
link |
the other because of crossed wires.
link |
And sometimes, you know, you'll just have to scream in any way or misunderstanding anyway.
link |
But again, like I've, I coached some of my friends, I've coached, I've coached my friend
link |
who I've known since I was four years old.
link |
You know, sometimes I don't go, Hey buddy, how are you doing?
link |
Sometimes it's like, what the fuck are you doing?
link |
Put your hand over there.
link |
How many times we talked about this?
link |
And then you walk away and you can see him look at you crooked and you're like, Oh crap.
link |
He thought I was talking to his friend.
link |
Well, all right, let, we need to talk this one out, hashing out and not he's wrong.
link |
How could he possibly think that way?
link |
Like, Oh no, I totally understand that.
link |
But if I was 22, like doesn't need no, I'm a purple belt, some nonsense like that.
link |
And it's, and it doesn't come from a bad place, but it's just, I guess that comes back to
link |
society to anything.
link |
People only had the perspective that they have and the awareness that we have.
link |
And so again, going back and going, Hey guys, grace, like I don't expect, it's not fair
link |
for me to go, I fight UFC.
link |
Why doesn't this guy who came in as an attorney understand how hardcore this needs to be?
link |
I'm like, how could he?
link |
And at the same time though, if, if I'm using the language of someone that is interested
link |
in at least performance from a martial arts perspective, I understand how that could be
link |
Let's say for instance, someone that's like all of that would be out of bounds in their
link |
But if they think of the gym as my office, then whether they agree or disagree with what's
link |
going on, they go, okay, I hear why I see why that might happen.
link |
Let's talk about this.
link |
And we can, again, all push forward in a positive direction that benefits, I guess, everyone's
link |
journey throughout the activity.
link |
And on top of all that, there's moods.
link |
Like I, I mean, especially lately, I think two days ago, maybe yesterday, no, two days
link |
ago, I've never been that cranky in my life.
link |
I think, I don't know what it was, but I wanted to tell everybody how much they annoyed me.
link |
It was like, I was just very conscious of this feeling of like, why, why is this happening
link |
So I consciously decided as I usually do in those cases to not say anything to anybody.
link |
How do you do that?
link |
Well, I, you know, it's, it's yeah.
link |
Meditate because it's not, I tend to, I tend to then visualize what's going to happen in
link |
the next, like, how is this going to make my life better?
link |
Like if I say something that mean to somebody else, I have just started a conflict that
link |
will just escalate, will continue, will add more conflict to my life.
link |
It will make things, I just don't like the feeling you will create.
link |
And so you live in enough life to know that like, it's just like with like street fighting.
link |
I would get into a lot of fights when I was younger, just on the street, but then you
link |
realize like, it's not like a jujitsu match or something like that.
link |
It's not, it'll escalate.
link |
It'll, it might come back at you.
link |
It'll like that person might find you again.
link |
But more importantly, the anxiety of it, of having created little enemies in this
link |
world, distorts the way you see the world.
link |
So I've noticed that like, if I am shitty to people on the internet, which I haven't
link |
been, I think in a long time is like, it, it somehow brings the shittiness to you
link |
more and more, it escalates like the more love you put out there, the more like the
link |
people who put love out, like surround you.
link |
Well, you mentioned forgiveness as well.
link |
Like you said, like, I guess back to the original, you know, the Holocaust survivor
link |
scenario where you're like, oh my God, like you think of the ultimate in, in like, I've
link |
never experienced one, one billionth of that level of, of pain and horror.
link |
And it's like, and I can't let this little thing go.
link |
You know, I guess that's an interesting thing.
link |
I think you're just making the point in your personal life, I guess the same way.
link |
And on the internet, it's hard.
link |
I've somehow gotten, I mean, you've, you've had a level of celebrity for a while.
link |
I've recently gotten some level of like celebrity and like these people who are
link |
just shitty for no reason come out from all, from all places, like calling me a
link |
fraud or anything else.
link |
It was Jay and Silent Bob, Strike Back.
link |
They find out a movie is going to be made about them and people were talking shit
link |
on the internet and they're like, what's the internet?
link |
And then someone shows them and they're like, what?
link |
And they go to a message board and they go to Hollywood to try to stop it from
link |
And they eventually get money for their likeness and they use the money to buy
link |
plane tickets and fly around and beat the shit out of all the people that talk bad
link |
I mean, it's I'm, I'm having trouble with it cause there's people like, yeah,
link |
there's, you know, there's posts and forums and like heated discussions about
link |
is like sweeping a fraud.
link |
What has he really done?
link |
And there's like, and then there's people like, well, I think he's an all right
link |
guy, but I'm not sure.
link |
Like, like there's like literal discussions and I'm like, like nobody,
link |
like if you increase the level of celebrity, there's going to be like one
link |
of the things that hurts my heart a little bit is like some level of toxicity
link |
For example, there's like communities of people that now like talk about him
link |
selling out, for example, all that kind of stuff.
link |
And I don't, you know, and Joe I've talked to him about it is amazing that
link |
he he says, don't read the comments.
link |
He legitimately doesn't read the comments.
link |
His heart and his soul doesn't give a damn about the comments.
link |
All he gives a damn about is his friends.
link |
Like one of the things that's really inspiring to me and that's I've had a
link |
conversation with them offline about Spotify and the removed episodes.
link |
People are curious.
link |
Um, it's, uh, it's a thing on the internet where, uh, I think you can play
link |
Taylor Swift songs on, um, but you can also now play Joe Rogan podcasts and
link |
they gave him a hundred million dollars.
link |
So that that's, um, you know, that's it's yeah.
link |
Uh, but the thing I've had a discussion with him and I made a video about it
link |
that I took down because of the toxicity is like, it's hard to put into words,
link |
but he will give away the a hundred million in a second.
link |
If he ever has to compromise who he is, like he doesn't, I mean, he already
link |
said, as he talked about, he's made quote unquote, fuck you money a long
link |
time ago, he doesn't need any more money.
link |
It's nice to have money, whatever, but like, he'll give it away.
link |
So the it's nice to see when people like him at a level of celebrity level of
link |
success and financial success, don't change at all.
link |
They're just the same thing that makes you happy is talking in his case, talking
link |
shit with his friends in the case of most of us really just, just hanging out
link |
with friends, doing the things you love in his case, doing the things he loves
link |
without any, like, you know, the Texas way, the freedom, like without any
link |
corporate bureaucracy bullshit that rolls in and says, well, maybe you
link |
shouldn't say fuck, you know, like more than 20 times a podcast or something
link |
like that, like those kinds of like rules, like people, like he says in a
link |
suit and tie, they show up and say stuff oddly enough people that could never
link |
have done what he does.
link |
And it's kind of inspiring to see that.
link |
And I hope people, I hope people realize how special of a human he is.
link |
He's inspired like people like me, like I'm just, I'm a scientist, right?
link |
So he inspired somebody like me from a very different walk of life to be like
link |
kind to others, to be open minded.
link |
I don't know that it's a special dude.
link |
So like people need to support that and treasure that as opposed to
link |
as opposed to be toxic about it.
link |
I mean, what people really for a long time have told me that it would be
link |
awesome if Ryan Hall goes on Joe Rogan.
link |
I definitely think that would be an awesome thing.
link |
Have you listened to Joe?
link |
Has he been a part of your life in some kind of way?
link |
You know, well, Joe's always, I remember watching Joe on Fear Factor when I
link |
was a little kid, which is cool.
link |
So I've actually gotten to like, from a bird's eye view, watch his kind of
link |
just path through life.
link |
But one of the things that I always appreciate, and again, I barely know Joe
link |
other than to shake his hand.
link |
He interviewed me after the, briefly in the ring after the BJ pan fight.
link |
But one of the things that I've always admired about Joe is that I think he
link |
had fucking money from the start.
link |
I think that zero dollars is fucking money for Joe.
link |
I think, and that's something I respect about him a great deal because as you
link |
say, it's interesting to watch, it's like you hope that George St. Pierre is
link |
It's really, I'm not super close to George, but we're teammates at TriStar
link |
and he's never been anything but a gentleman.
link |
He's one of those people that if you didn't know George was famous when you
link |
walk into the gym, you'd have no idea.
link |
He's not holding court, not doing it.
link |
He's just, you know, training and he'll help out an amateur doing this.
link |
If you have a question for him, he'll help me.
link |
Like I'm nobody, man.
link |
He would give me advice and train me.
link |
It was super cool.
link |
And he didn't kill me, which I really appreciated.
link |
But you know, it's like you meet someone and you go, man, it's so cool that
link |
this is the guy who's the best, that this is the guy who has been successful.
link |
And then you go, why are they successful?
link |
Like I said, true to what they're doing.
link |
They haven't changed.
link |
They're the same as they've been.
link |
And I remember I got to TriStar in 2012 and George was already George St.
link |
Pierre, but I remember watching and talking to people and they're like,
link |
oh man, George is the same as he's always been.
link |
I see him in the gym training now and again, giving advice now.
link |
And it seems like Joe has always been consistent.
link |
And it's neat to watch someone not compromise on their values and not change
link |
And not, you know, periodically, like, you know, again, we all make mistakes.
link |
Like you have a bad day or this or that.
link |
And an apology needs to be issued or even my bad or this or that.
link |
And you're like, yeah, and they just move on that they're not afraid to be
link |
themselves and they're not afraid to be wrong.
link |
They're not afraid to make a mistake.
link |
As you mentioned, open mind and some like, so what are the correct beliefs to
link |
have about this that I know going in, everyone's going to be okay with what
link |
I'm saying, which is usually the beginning of a conversation that's
link |
going to go nowhere.
link |
And, uh, it's, it's neat to see, um, the things I guess that he's created on
link |
his own as a result of the authenticity that's there.
link |
And it reminds me of like Dave Chappelle.
link |
And, and again, I don't know, I've never met Dave, but it's neat to see
link |
someone that's clearly again, authentic in their own way, doing their own
link |
And they're because of that, they're above the corporate nonsense.
link |
But what's funny, I think the message behind all of it is, Hey guys, we
link |
all are, I can't promise you that I'm going to have money.
link |
Joe couldn't promise you that he's going to have money.
link |
Now it ended up working out, but he was above that nonsense from the jump.
link |
And he just continued to be above it by never giving it any mind and just
link |
going like, yeah, I'm going to be a reasonable person.
link |
I'm going to try to learn.
link |
I'm going to try to grow.
link |
And, uh, if I say something annoying, you can come and talk to me about it.
link |
We can get to the bottom of it.
link |
And I'm like, if I need to say my bad, thanks, appreciate it.
link |
And if I don't need to, I'm like, Hey, I still appreciate the talk.
link |
I'll shake your hand and we'd carry on and we'd go our separate ways and
link |
hopefully I'll treat you with respect.
link |
You treat me with respect and that's about it.
link |
And I guess I think it's a lesson that it can work out no matter what you
link |
don't have to count out to like these weird powers that be.
link |
And whether you're at this level or at this level, but you can live your
link |
life the way that you want.
link |
And as you mentioned, talk to your friends, hang out, be happy.
link |
And it just so happens that that resonates with people.
link |
It actually reminds me of like, uh, speaking to MIT and being in Boston is
link |
like a good will hunting.
link |
You know, like, again, that's what did he really want to do?
link |
He could have gone this way.
link |
Could have gone that way.
link |
And it was an interesting story, but it's like this person wants to hang out
link |
with his buddies and wants to do other things.
link |
And again, it happens to be brilliant and happens to be able to do all these
link |
other things, but there was.
link |
I guess it's like, at least in my mind, a story of authenticity as well.
link |
And it was both the same thing in the Robin Williams character.
link |
And I just think that that's a message cause watch watching things occur on
link |
the internet as they do now.
link |
Think so many things playing out in the public eye.
link |
I feel like so many private or otherwise formerly private discussions and
link |
disputes and, and, you know, interactions now become, they all have a, a, well,
link |
what is this going to say when it goes public?
link |
So how can I couch what I'm saying?
link |
Or how can I word this in a way that's going to get people on my side or use
link |
the right buzzwords and not use the wrong buzzwords.
link |
And it's just neat to see people.
link |
You know, in their own way, flip the bird to the head, because I just think
link |
that that's, that's just not how a human being is meant to think or interact.
link |
I'm curious what you think about the thing that recently has, you know, me like
link |
hosting this podcast, I sometimes think about like, who should I talk to and not
link |
in terms of like, it's the, the old Hitler question now, Hitler, I would definitely
link |
talk to because post world war II, because everyone knows he's evil.
link |
The question, whether you talk to Hitler in 1937, like when people who are really
link |
students of what's going on, understand that this is a very dangerous human being.
link |
But a large number of the part of the world are like, well, he's a leader who
link |
cares for Germany.
link |
So the question I have, it's interesting to me, it involves a particular person
link |
named who also lives in Austin, Texas named Alex Jones.
link |
I don't know if you're familiar with the guy.
link |
I am familiar with Mr. Jones.
link |
I've actually recently just listened to Infowars, like one episode of his show,
link |
I guess that he does every day.
link |
And it kind of reminds me of a time in college when I drank too much tequila.
link |
There's no turning back.
link |
Like, it's like, like the mistakes you make that like, it's, I mean, you don't
link |
know where you're going to wake up, you don't know who you're going to kill or
link |
not kill or steal or rob, it's unclear.
link |
So that, it felt like I was getting pulled into a dark place where pretty
link |
much everybody is a pedophile that's trying to control the world.
link |
So Bill Gates definitely is a pedophile.
link |
Everybody in power, anybody in power, there's a kind of a deep skepticism
link |
about power and a conspiratorial way to see the world where everything is
link |
like dark forces in all corners.
link |
It's like the way you feel when you're a kid, that there's a monster hiding
link |
Which is also why you leap over the bed from like four feet away.
link |
There's a strategy.
link |
So, but he says that you're just being weak.
link |
You need to look under the bed.
link |
Under the bed, there's monsters and we need to be aware of them because
link |
they're growing, they're multiplying.
link |
And they're touching children.
link |
They're touching children.
link |
So it all connects.
link |
But the, the, I, when I listened to him and I thought about like, do I want
link |
to talk to him on this podcast, for example, when I listened to his
link |
conversation with Joe Rogan, the two times he talked on there, to me,
link |
it was somehow entertaining.
link |
Like it was fun to listen to.
link |
It's fun to listen to a madman go on for four hours because it's almost
link |
Like, this is what I talked to Joe about.
link |
When people try to censor Alex Jones, Joe says that the people who try
link |
to censor him don't give enough credit to the intelligence of human
link |
beings to like, understand like that, like what a person says on a
link |
large platform does not necessarily is not the truth.
link |
You can be a madman and say crazy things and people are intelligent
link |
enough to hear certain things being, when they're said like the earth
link |
is flat, they can, they can be intelligent enough not to all of a
link |
sudden start believing that the earth is flat.
link |
Like they, they're intelligent enough to sort of select different
link |
ideas and be able to enjoy the theater of a particular ridiculous
link |
over the top conversation without being sort of influenced to where
link |
they start believing like toxic set of beliefs.
link |
Now there's a lot of sort of other kinds of people, especially now
link |
with cancel culture that say, well, you don't want to give platform
link |
to crazy people that ultimately whose beliefs might lead to dangerous
link |
Like, and I see it very often now with conspiracy theories that go,
link |
that go like way too far.
link |
Like for example, would, I, I'm not, I haven't looked into it, so I'm
link |
sorry, I will look into it, but it hurts my heart to see that on Bill
link |
Gates, in my opinion, the person who has saved and improved more lives
link |
than probably any human history, literally because of the money he's
link |
invested in helping, like just, just the work he's done on like malaria
link |
in Africa, the number of people he's helped is huge.
link |
And yet every interview, anything you see now on Bill Gates, everyone
link |
is calling him, I believe haven't looked into it, but I believe
link |
everyone's calling him a pedophile.
link |
I don't know the full structure of it, but it's, it's just a very, it
link |
feels like an army of like, it feels like it's hundreds of thousands
link |
That's what it feels like.
link |
It might be a much smaller percentage, but it feels like a huge number
link |
of people are calling him a pedophile.
link |
So that's the, that's the flip side.
link |
If you allow, if you give platform to conspiracy theories like that,
link |
then you start to have bigger and bigger percent of the population
link |
believe in these crazy things.
link |
I just, I wanted to put it out there.
link |
Cause I don't know what to think of that.
link |
If you put yourself in Joe Rogan's shoes, if you put yourself in my
link |
shoes, if you put yourself just in your own shoes, I mean, I'm even
link |
I'm in my shoes right now.
link |
If you're staying in your shoes, just stay in your shoes.
link |
Can I have your, would you talk, would you give platform to people like
link |
Alex Jones, would, would you talk to somebody like Alex Jones or, or not?
link |
Uh, I, yes, I would.
link |
And I feel very strongly about this, honestly.
link |
Um, well, I think that it's, it's an interesting thing and I, I would
link |
just say a lot of times, um, I can understand, you know, very, very
link |
clearly why people would take issue with the idea of, I guess what they
link |
proceed to be amplifying this man's voice, this man's reach, um, you
link |
know, as, as a demonstrable negative.
link |
But I think, um, you know, when you take a step back further, uh, the,
link |
the cure is more damaging than the disease and significantly.
link |
So, um, I guess I think that I'm very, very wary of, I think being where
link |
you mentioned Alex Jones being wary of power and people with it, that's
link |
a lot of times there's a lot of truth and validity to crazy things that
link |
people say it's the conspiracy theories that stick are the ones that sound
link |
credible, at least quasi credible in some aspect.
link |
And it's almost like it seems to me like an anchor in people's mind.
link |
And it is also funny to me, obviously the, the Bill Gates, it's so funny
link |
to tar people with things like pedophile, racist, rapist, like, these
link |
are things that we're basically trying to pick words that no one can ever
link |
support someone who does these things.
link |
And that's, you know, and that changes year by year.
link |
Like currently pedophile is totally in as a thing to call somebody just,
link |
just as a, it used to be communist or Marxist Cleveland Browns fan, you
link |
know, like, come on, you know, actually nobody likes the Browns.
link |
So I'll agree with you.
link |
That was, that's why I picked them.
link |
That's the trick is you find a group of people that nobody likes.
link |
That's the move, but, uh, yeah, that's a creepy thing though, because
link |
that is, that is the creepy thing is like, if people are always looking
link |
for groups of people are always looking for, and I find this really deeply
link |
disturbing, um, like, Hey, so who's the guy that we can all get away with?
link |
You know, just treating like dirt, who's the guy that I can be a dick to?
link |
I can just walk up and punch in the face and no one's going to say anything.
link |
And it's, even if I, you know, people do that with, whether it's literal
link |
Nazis or someone that I called a Nazi, you know, I guess what's the bigger issue,
link |
this person's ridiculous beliefs or what I'm doing.
link |
And you mentioned Hitler before, and obviously Mein Kampf being a, you know,
link |
like the outline for some of the things he did later and when the evil was it
link |
always there, did it, did it take root later on or flourish later on?
link |
But was, was Adolf Hitler a problem because he had crazy ideas or
link |
because he did things?
link |
I think it's because it's not, I think I know it's because he did things.
link |
Now, if I'm going to start punishing thought crime, I, I'm going to have to
link |
start punishing thought crime.
link |
And that's a terrifying concept.
link |
Even if I'm right about the certain, about the objectively correct about the
link |
things that I decide to call out of bounds, who put me in charge and made me
link |
arbiter of good taste and how long until I did it, did it, did it, did it, did it
link |
long until I decide that something else is, is out of bounds.
link |
It's, it's always a sliding scale or it's always a sliding standard.
link |
And I find that, that, you know, to be more of a concern than people doing
link |
crazy things, because I guess if you mentioned Alex Jones, you know, putting
link |
out ridiculous, ridiculous ideas, ridiculous theories, I think that most
link |
people don't look at Alex Jones as a credible person.
link |
Now I'm not going to pretend to be deeply read into all of his beliefs or the
link |
things that he's trying to peddle.
link |
Um, but there's plenty of things that are quasi mainstream that I think on
link |
with this side or that side that maybe not comparably ridiculous, but are, you
link |
know, particularly in hindsight or, you know, or we're not, or, or silly.
link |
And I guess, uh, the idea of, of getting a group of people together to decide
link |
what we're not going to tolerate is a very, very tricky thing.
link |
And I think that, you know, it reminds me of law or, you know, even, you
link |
know, religion when it gets to like, what are the things that we don't like?
link |
How do we feel about rape?
link |
It's like, no, under no circumstances.
link |
Is that an acceptable behavior murder?
link |
No, that's not acceptable behavior.
link |
Killing, I don't know, kind of depends on the situation.
link |
Were you justified?
link |
Were you acting in self defense?
link |
So it's not now murder is a specific type of killing the same way, you know, other
link |
things should be a specific type of something else.
link |
But I guess we, we draw the line of murder.
link |
We say, if you want to exist in our society, you can't do this.
link |
This cannot be done.
link |
And then we go theft.
link |
If someone said, Hey, I murdered that guy.
link |
Can you understand where I'm coming from?
link |
I might say, yeah, I'll hear you out.
link |
It doesn't mean that I think you're right, but I'm like, have you ever been wronged
link |
so deeply that you could imagine that you could kill someone?
link |
I'm like, no, I haven't, but I could conceptualize someone doing that.
link |
And I'm like, yeah, okay.
link |
And you still need to go, you still need to face, you know, criminal justice as we
link |
have it in our system, or at least that's how we've decided.
link |
Yeah, there's, it's interesting.
link |
You have to be able to like, there's, if you look at the history of discourse in
link |
this country, I think it's still true, but I'm not sure it's changed since 9 11 is,
link |
uh, it used to be impossible to criticize, um, a soldier.
link |
It was easier to criticize war.
link |
It was harder to criticize soldiers for allowing themselves to be the tools of war.
link |
I tend to be, maybe it's the Russian upbringing.
link |
It's the, it's the combat thing.
link |
I tend to romanticize war and soldiers.
link |
I see soldiers as heroes, but I've also heard people that not only say that soldiers
link |
are, uh, war is bad.
link |
They say soldiers are bad.
link |
What's their argument?
link |
It's, it's the kind of a libertarian view that they're basically slaves to evil, right?
link |
War is evil and they're, they're given, they are suspending their moral and ethical, like,
link |
as like duties as a human being to become the tools of evil.
link |
That's the sort of the argument.
link |
If you see war as evil, I mean, I think it's useful to hear that, but there's for a long
link |
part in history that was completely unacceptable.
link |
Same with abortion.
link |
If you see abortion as murder, I mean, if I classify it in that, if I put it in that,
link |
in that basket, it starts, we're living in the midst of like a genocide.
link |
Looked at from that perspective, could you feel how people could be deeply upset by abortion?
link |
You go, of course.
link |
Looked at from a different perspective, you say, I don't believe it to be murder.
link |
That's not how I see it.
link |
Then you go, oh, well, if that's the genesis of your, your thought process, then you're
link |
Now, now I see how we can come to a different thing, but I guess we go, well, abortion is
link |
Therefore, if you support it, you support murder.
link |
That's a convenient way for me to tar you.
link |
But I guess that's kind of coming back to the Alec Jones.
link |
I'm, I'm just a nuance.
link |
It's a, you have to have the nuance in these kinds of conversations and I have to be willing
link |
to have the conversation and I have to be willing to sit down.
link |
If I can't sit down across from like the most violently racist, angry, hypothetical internet,
link |
you know, conceived person that none of us have ever actually met in real life, but are
link |
hopefully not, you know, and go like, well, of course I believe that this person's wrong,
link |
but allow me to change, do my best.
link |
I'll hear them out and I'll go, no, I can go point by point and explain where this guy
link |
or this girl is wrong and hopefully bring them over to a more reasonable position where
link |
they will have better beliefs and they will like objectively better beliefs and beliefs
link |
that will, will, and they'll treat other people better.
link |
Why would I want to marginalize this person?
link |
I might not want to talk.
link |
I might not want to invite them to my barbecue if they're acting like a jerk all the time,
link |
but how could I, would it not make the world a better place if I'd hear them out and they
link |
go, look, if you're going to sit down and talk with me, we're going to have to have
link |
I'll hear what you have to say.
link |
And if I can't, if I can't explain to someone why their ridiculous belief is wrong, then
link |
I might, I must not be so confident in my position.
link |
And I guess that's where I come back to the Alex Jones thing.
link |
As you mentioned, you know, with, with Bill Gates and, and you're much more familiar with,
link |
with the specifics of all the good that he's done, but you know, again, he's been an unbelievable
link |
force for good, you know, in this world.
link |
You can list A, B, C, D things that the man has, has done, that his foundation has done
link |
and, you know, positive things.
link |
And then the other people could speculate about ridiculous, crazy levels of, of evil,
link |
but you can't produce any evidence for that sort of thing.
link |
Because if you could, the man will find himself in some trouble, you know?
link |
And anyway, I guess what I would, would say is that why you can't force me to accept the
link |
truth the same way you could write down two plus two equals four on a piece of paper and
link |
show me how it works.
link |
And I could say, no, but that doesn't make it not true.
link |
And you've still given yourself an opportunity to present your case.
link |
You've presented it to me.
link |
And you've also, for anyone listening and watching, you know, you've been able to critically
link |
assess what's gone on, you know, or critically address back and forth, you know, kind of
link |
the, the discourse.
link |
And I think that you almost, you're making your case for the public.
link |
So I guess like, you know, when it comes to just never not engaging with these people,
link |
that seems to me to be cowardly.
link |
And I think that that's a, something that we're seeing in society right now, I think
link |
we're seeing a crisis of courage in society all over the place.
link |
And I think that's where we're seeing poor leadership.
link |
I think we're seeing understandable things happening everywhere, but we need stronger
link |
voices and stronger, stronger beliefs that have a conviction and are willing to engage
link |
with others, not just turning into a shouting contest and not, I didn't win because there's
link |
Oh, I voted, I outvoted you.
link |
But that's a stand in for bullets.
link |
That's saying I won because there's more of me.
link |
That doesn't mean that I'm right because plenty of horrible and unpopular now things have
link |
been very, very deeply popular in the past and would have won a popular vote.
link |
Does that make them right?
link |
I'd say clearly not.
link |
So I guess you'd hope that we engage with these people and that you can do your best
link |
to bring them over to a more reasonable position if you believe that you have one.
link |
And if you can't, well, at least you made the effort.
link |
And I think that that's something where martial arts shows the value.
link |
It's like, do you know if you're going to go win your next fight?
link |
I'm like, I have no idea.
link |
I will proceed forward with full effort and I will fight with dignity.
link |
I'll fight with honor and I'll fight with courage and I'll use everything that I have
link |
and I will play within the bounds of the game and that's that.
link |
And the result will be what it'll be.
link |
But I'll walk into and out of that ring with my head held high because I will know that
link |
The outcome, the specific outcome is not in my control.
link |
It's just strongly in my influence.
link |
And I think that that's something that helped me, that martial arts has taught me because
link |
other times, even when I was successful or unsuccessful, I would focus on if I won, I
link |
won, therefore I'm good.
link |
I lost, therefore I'm bad.
link |
This other guy won or lost, therefore, as opposed to evaluating their method.
link |
And I think it's so easy when we're taking a bird's eye view of things to not evaluate
link |
how someone's doing things.
link |
You're not evaluating my process.
link |
You're simply evaluating my outcome.
link |
And I could have stumbled into something very, very good or very, very bad.
link |
And we can look back and I think that's the value of history.
link |
I mean, I don't mean to get on my dang high horse, but it's like this value of history
link |
is we can see the unbroken chain or the chain of events that led us somewhere.
link |
And then only with the eyes of history can we truly evaluate things unless we're in
link |
the room watching it happen.
link |
And I guess that's, again, where we start to go most of the big, bad, scary things that
link |
have happened in history that are done particularly on an industrial scale, which implies governmental
link |
power and things like that or the equivalent, involve groups of people getting together
link |
and going, hey, we're not going to deal with that guy, giant groups of people.
link |
So maybe we're right this time, but maybe we're wrong next time.
link |
And I guess I would be back to the Gandalf putting on the one ring.
link |
I would be very, very hesitant, even if we thought we were in the right to simply try
link |
to try to marginalize just on general principle.
link |
Even people like Alex Jones, whom on their face are pretty ridiculous.
link |
Like you said, you should sit down with Adolf Hitler and talk to the man.
link |
I agree with you to play a little devil's advocate is Alex Jones might be a bad example.
link |
But if we look at, because he has a face, he is a human, he's a real person.
link |
There's also trolls on the internet for Chan.
link |
The worry I have with those folks is that, and there might be parallels to martial arts
link |
is they practice guerrilla warfare, meaning they don't necessarily want to arrive at the truth.
link |
They just always want to cut at the ankles of the powerful.
link |
Like they want to always break down the powerful.
link |
And even if they, I mean, it's, they turn everything into a game.
link |
So they let's see if we can make the world.
link |
Let's see if we can make a trend that Bill Gates is a pedophile, right?
link |
They make it into a game.
link |
They get excited about this game.
link |
They see the powerful.
link |
Let's see if we can convince that, like, who is the most positive person we can think of.
link |
Let's see if we can turn them into evil.
link |
And they've tried that with like everybody and it seems to stick and they're good at it.
link |
And some would argue, whatever you think about our current president, that he has some elements
link |
of that, which is he's figured out whatever this music of social discourse that's going on,
link |
he's figured out how to always troll the mainstream flow of consciousness.
link |
He always kind of says stuff that annoys a very large number of people.
link |
And he enjoys that because it's like taking the powerful, taking the way things were before.
link |
And he like shakes it up by saying the most inappropriate thing, almost on purpose or
link |
instinctually and so on.
link |
The problem I have with that is that doesn't, the powerful thing there is it brings those
link |
in power down a notch.
link |
That's a great thing.
link |
The negative thing is it doesn't push us closer to a nuanced, careful, rigorous discourse
link |
It's like showing up to a party and just like starting to yell.
link |
It doesn't create a good conversation.
link |
It just makes everything into a game where truth doesn't even seem like a thing we can
link |
even hope to achieve.
link |
And I guess, as you mentioned, we'll come back to another movie because I don't do books
link |
Some people just want to watch the world burn, right?
link |
And I guess there's, that's a creepy, creepy kind of urge that some people have.
link |
And then also is some people you're like, hey, would you like to throw a brick through
link |
that glass window?
link |
You're like, yeah, sure.
link |
Like, no, I'm not going to do that because I think about what's going to occur.
link |
Like something's going to be hurt, someone's property not going to do it versus, hey, you
link |
want to see what will happen?
link |
Kids are always like, I have my son, he grabs Spider Man and drops him on the table.
link |
Spider Man didn't fall, Sean.
link |
Like, he dropped him, you knocked him off the table and he'll grin.
link |
And basically, it's an interesting thing, like you said, that these people are appealing
link |
to and also almost like the little dog factor of like people do want to watch the powerful
link |
get taken down a notch for all the good and the not good of that.
link |
Just plenty of people, it seems to me, that have found their way to incredibly high positions.
link |
Some have just found themselves there and many, many, many, many, many people, men and
link |
women of all backgrounds are brilliant and have worked hard.
link |
And yeah, of course, there's luck and there's luck into everything.
link |
LeBron James, in spite of being the best basketball player on God's green earth, is fortunate
link |
that he didn't get hit by a car.
link |
It's fortunate he didn't tear his knee, but thankfully, we get to see all these things.
link |
But I guess if people don't have any skin in the game, you never know what they're going
link |
And I think that's the problem with the internet.
link |
You know, that people get to be nameless, be faceless.
link |
That's why guerrilla fighters are outside of the bounds of war.
link |
Like you don't have a uniform on.
link |
Like, I don't know who you're from.
link |
You don't get the same treatment that a soldier gets for MP.
link |
Well, that's crazy.
link |
Actually, there's reasons for this, because otherwise people are able to assail things
link |
and there's no one responsible.
link |
There's no way to go and say, hey, where did this come from?
link |
What's the root of this?
link |
How can I address this?
link |
And I think that's the problem of the internet, the problem of Twitter.
link |
There's a problem in places like 4chan.
link |
I wouldn't mind seeing that type of stuff go away, if I'm frank.
link |
But that's not the same thing as people with a face, people who are willing to stand there
link |
and say, hi, my name is so and so.
link |
Even if I have ridiculous beliefs, hopefully people will hear me out.
link |
And then if I'm wrong, educate me.
link |
But I guess you hope that the real, I guess, in my mind, antidote to all of this silliness
link |
And I think that that's something that we're critical thinking is not necessarily.
link |
I went to school in America, and I feel very fortunate.
link |
But critical thinking is not something that's focused on.
link |
I mean, it's tough.
link |
It's almost like talking about jujitsu.
link |
It's tough to teach critical thinking when I don't know any words.
link |
You have to teach me techniques.
link |
You can't teach me to be an artist.
link |
But recognize that the techniques are the beginning, not the end.
link |
Ultimately, it's the artistry that we are searching for, not just the science or the
link |
biro memorization.
link |
And I guess you'd hope that people's ability to think critically and recognize that majority
link |
rule or whoever's loudest does not mean that they're right by any stretch of the imagination.
link |
And we don't appeal to that.
link |
And we don't bow to that.
link |
We'll help them to help inoculate them against the ridiculous things that come out of these
link |
places, these dark places that are objectively not great.
link |
But I guess all circling back, even if we swatted these bad things out of existence
link |
right now, we've got to be very, very careful doing that because it's who's doing the swatting.
link |
This political group that's in power right now, the people that support our current president
link |
would maybe feel a certain way.
link |
The people that support another option would feel differently as to what exactly defines
link |
And I guess that's what gives me pause.
link |
But also the grace thing.
link |
I tend to believe that the technology, you said education, but the platforms we use like
link |
Twitter and Reddit and all these platforms have a role to play to teach us grace.
link |
Meaning they should help us incentivize the kind of behavior that is incentivized in real
link |
Like being a dick in real life is not incentivized.
link |
Like one on one interaction.
link |
Like there's cases where it is, but usually being kind to each other is incentivized.
link |
On the internet, it's not.
link |
Like you get likes for mocking people in a funny, in a humorous way.
link |
And it can be dark kind of mocking, depending on the community.
link |
You can go to the appearance.
link |
If somebody is a little fat or a little too skinny, you can comment on their appearance,
link |
the hair, the way the hair looks, like the appearance stuff.
link |
It could be on the people comment all the time on the level of eloquence of my speech.
link |
It's creepy though watching previously, like this used to be low brow though.
link |
Like people doing this type of stuff, it's creepy watching like our political figures
link |
get into this type of game.
link |
But again, it's a little bit refreshing, right?
link |
It's the, my hope with Donald Trump was, is that he would shake up the people who wear
link |
Usually the, like if you're from DC, I remember like showing up, I actually didn't wear what
link |
I usually wear in DC cause I was like, everybody's wearing a suit and tie when I was like giving
link |
Except for Mudge, who wears jeans and a t shirt.
link |
Mudge doesn't give a damn.
link |
Mudge is a forever renegade.
link |
But I don't even remember what, oh yeah.
link |
So my hope with Trump was that he would shake up that system to say like, to inject new
link |
ideas, to inject new energy.
link |
Of course, the way it turned out is different, but like there's, it turns out that you might
link |
want to have somebody who's like an Andrew Yang type character who is full of ideas that
link |
are very different and inject the energy, new energy into the system through youthful
link |
new ideas versus through the troll that like, that's very good at sort of mocking and like
link |
playing outside the rules of the game.
link |
But Trump did reveal powerfully, I don't know what to think of it, that it's just a game
link |
and you don't have to play by the rules.
link |
That's both inspiring and dark.
link |
Deeply depressing, right?
link |
Yeah, and I don't know what to do with it.
link |
I don't, I mean the same, I'm not drawing parallels, not drawing parallels between our
link |
president and Adolf Hitler, but it's certainly, and there's a lot of, in history, a lot of
link |
positive and a lot of negative things happen when charismatic leaders realize they don't
link |
have to play by the rules.
link |
You can just flip the table.
link |
It's that Kevin Spacey show.
link |
House of Cards, where you just flip the table or whatever.
link |
You don't have to play by the rules of the chess game.
link |
You can flip the table.
link |
One wonders if that's always been done in private, you know?
link |
I guess, because that's, I mean, even look, obviously, the United States is a republic,
link |
but we had Bush, then we had Clinton, then we had more Bush, then we had President Obama,
link |
then we were about to have another Clinton.
link |
That's fairly creepy.
link |
But now we added another, I mean, I'm sure we'll have a generation of Trumps now.
link |
I'm Russian, so I think we humans like kings still and queens.
link |
There's something, we're attracted to the thing we talked about, coaches.
link |
There's something in us that longs towards that authoritarian control.
link |
One of the beautiful things about America, the Second Amendment, is we also like individual
link |
That's one of the unique aspects at the founding of this country and still, and for me, is
link |
the beacon of hope that somehow there's the fire of freedom burns in like that Texas feel.
link |
That gives me hope.
link |
The FU energy that revolts against the power, which as we discussed, power corrupts and
link |
ultimately leads to degradation of whoever's ruling the people.
link |
It's interesting though.
link |
It seems to me, maybe I'm just, I don't know if I'm reading this properly when I see it,
link |
but it seems to me that, like you said, that flip the bird, I'm going to do me within reason.
link |
As long as I'm not hurting you, is idea that very much, at least in my mind, defines the
link |
American ideal or at least part of the consciousness of the United States is under attack to a
link |
If only I can think to maybe a generation behind us, it's becoming more collectivist
link |
for all the good and also the not good of that.
link |
And it's not in terms of policy at this point, but just in terms of consciousness.
link |
And I wonder if that's an internet thing.
link |
People are more in touch with one another than they've, as far as I can tell, have ever
link |
been, or at least more than in my lifetime.
link |
And the rest of the world seems much closer than it did.
link |
Living in Virginia, California seems very far away.
link |
Being on the internet, it's just right there.
link |
I can hear about it.
link |
I can interact with people from there.
link |
I remember being in Tennessee at one time and reading about events taking place in the
link |
And that just seemed like a mile away.
link |
It seemed like an unbelievably far distance.
link |
And then another time when you're in DC, you just feel like, oh, you read about something
link |
happening in Paris.
link |
And it just feels like it's just right around the corner because DC is a seat of power where
link |
things are just occurring all the time.
link |
And I guess you wonder about that's where I come back to the group decisions to not
link |
listen to this person or to cancel this.
link |
We all, the moral majority, shall do the following as opposed to as long as you're not hurting
link |
me and as long as you're not hurting anyone else, I have to let you do, I have to let
link |
you be on general principle.
link |
Even if I don't like you, I'm very free to not like you.
link |
I'm free to speak out against you, but I'm not, it is not within my right or, and not
link |
And it's not, I would not be right to attempt to attack you.
link |
And that is an interesting thing though, when we see words being redefined or words being
link |
defined, whether it's toxicity, whether it's violence, if I think that what you're saying
link |
is your speech is by itself a violence or a precursor to violence, I'm justified in
link |
doing all sorts of things.
link |
And that creeps me out significantly because again, even if it ends up being pointed in
link |
a good direction initially, it's only a matter of time.
link |
And actually that brings me to another, yeah, I got all day.
link |
How much are they paying you?
link |
But we about say the Frank Herbert estate, not enough frankly, let's see.
link |
And how many books are there in Dune?
link |
That's a Jen question.
link |
You're also a fan of Dune?
link |
I read the whole series, but not a couple of the, I read all the prequels as well with
link |
the exception of a couple.
link |
Is there a book one for Dune?
link |
Dune would be book one.
link |
And even the prequels, it's still all better if you start, like I read Dune and then read
link |
the original, what is it?
link |
And then I went back and started to read some of the books.
link |
Just like watching Star Wars, you want to start episode four or whatever?
link |
That's the move and then stop at six, call it a day, watch The Mandalorian.
link |
Well, I thought you're not walking back here.
link |
No, I like The Mandalorian.
link |
No, it's not The Mandalorian.
link |
That is what I said.
link |
I was told that I was heartless for not liking Baby Yoda, who I...
link |
We don't talk about a couple of the movies, not including The Mandalorian.
link |
The Mandalorian is fine.
link |
It's the more recent movies that we don't like to talk about.
link |
No, the creature, the goofy creature with the...
link |
Do you ever see the Jar Jar Binks is actually like the Dark Lord of the Sith theory?
link |
That fixed the whole initial trilogy where he's goofing around and making it all the
link |
way through battles.
link |
And when you're like, wait a minute, he oops his way, walks over to a pool, does a triple
link |
backflip, falls in, you're like, it's just bizarre that you...
link |
This is the Alex Jones theory of Star Wars.
link |
He's actually running everything.
link |
He was the one that actually was like, hey, we should vote in Chancellor Palpatine, or
link |
Senator Palpatine, right before they put Jar Jar in charge.
link |
First off, what did they think was gonna happen?
link |
And second off, I just think that'd be great.
link |
You're like, oops, oh man, I guess he's the emperor now.
link |
That would have been great.
link |
But actually, to the cancel and all the other stuff, again, you'd hope that it gives pause.
link |
And I think about this for fighting, because a lot of times...
link |
I'll use this as an example, people fight fans in UFC, they love people that run out
link |
and try to murder each other.
link |
And it's entertaining, and it's super entertaining.
link |
But Floyd Mayweather doesn't resonate with people as much.
link |
It's like people start...
link |
I remember the time when Floyd was not as popular.
link |
Now people think people love Floyd because he's 50 and oh Floyd.
link |
And oh man, and finally he had so much success that we all can't help but recognize the man's
link |
genius and greatness.
link |
But prior to that, oh, he's boring, he's this, he's that.
link |
He fights with his circumspect, he's cautious, he's pressing.
link |
He's intelligent, deeply intelligent.
link |
And when you watch people go out and try to murder each other, you can flip a coin 100
link |
times and you could be lucky enough to get 100 heads, but it's still a coin flip.
link |
And I think that that's what's going on all the time is people are getting an outcome
link |
that they want, but it wasn't a well thought out situation.
link |
That's why you'll win by five in a row by knockout and then lose three in a row.
link |
And then people will go, well, what happened to that guy?
link |
He used to be so great.
link |
And you're like, no, he's doing what he's always been doing.
link |
It's just, it was getting great outcomes on a coin flip prior, and it's getting negative
link |
outcomes on a coin flip now.
link |
But I guess what I would say is it watches, it's interesting watching, I guess, societal
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beliefs become such a thing that we're almost adopting on a religious level if we're not
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If when I say religious level, I mean like pan life, like this is guiding all of my
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choices for all the good and the bad of that.
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And this is a Dune quote is, when religion and politics travel in the same cart, the
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writers believe that nothing can stand in their way.
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Their movements become headlong faster and faster and faster.
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They put aside all thoughts of obstacles and forget that the precipice does not show itself
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to the man in the blind rush until it's too late.
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And I think that that's, again, the pause.
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We go, oh man, thank goodness we have this guy that wants to rebuild Germany.
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He'll put us back where we need to be.
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And you stop questioning your own judgment, your own, you stop thinking essentially.
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I'm not allowed to question this.
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Of course this is correct.
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Of course, of course I'm right.
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I intended to do right.
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So of course my actions are correct.
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I mean, how many times have any of us intended to do something helpful and ended up doing
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And plenty of people who intend to do harm could by accident do something decent.
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And I guess it's, I'm not saying anything terribly, terribly insightful, but it's just
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one of those where it's hard to say in the moment.
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And that's where you hopefully caution, you would counsel some degree of caution.
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And that's what worries me with people deciding that we're all so right about this or we're
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all so right about that and attempting to rather than win the argument, silence the
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counter argument, no matter how crazy it may seem.
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Because I just think that that idea, even when it's pointed in a good direction initially,
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it's only a matter of time.
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You're amongst many things, a Jiu Jitsu black belt.
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One of the things that people are really curious about white belts and blue belts in Jiu Jitsu,
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but also people haven't tried the art is what does it take to be a Jiu Jitsu black belt?
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I think that, you know, everyone's journey is a little bit different, but the one thing
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that the, it was a Calvin Coolidge quote, you know, determination, persistence is the
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only thing that will win in the end.
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It will always win in the end.
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Not brilliance, not toughness, not education, it's persistence.
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And I think that having the belief that no matter what happens to me, I will proceed
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forward and I will figure out how to make this happen, hell or high water, I think is
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the one thing that ties together all of the people that I've ever met that made it through
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whatever it was that they were going through.
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Because, you know, sometimes you can get lucky and you can have an easy time or and that
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luck could be you had a good situation.
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It could be, I mean, like in the obvious sense of like where you're living, where you're
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training, what's going on, you had a good situation, you're unbelievably athletic.
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Oh, you're going to be an astronaut, you're brilliant and an Olympic athlete, you know,
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like, well, that's a fantastic situation.
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You know, you won the genetic lottery and I'm sure you worked hard as well, but you
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also won the genetic lottery.
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It's a determination is the one thing, though, because that person could have a very easy
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go of it initially and then tear their knee.
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And then they're no longer the superhuman physical specimen that they were.
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The only thing that will keep them going is persistence.
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And I think that that I would just say that persistence to say I'll just put one foot
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in front of the other.
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And sometimes I can see the path ahead and sometimes it's beyond my vision, but I will
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I may even slow down, but I won't stop.
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And that's the only thing that I can say that I've seen tie everyone together because there's
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so many ways to the top of any mountain and there's so many different personalities and
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skills and backgrounds involved.
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But everyone, everyone carries on.
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So at the core, the foundational advice is just don't quit.
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That's the lesson of martial arts.
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I think, you know, we think it's like how to be strong or how to be how to win.
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But in reality, it's like how to persist, how to endure, because it's all of us have
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been beaten so many times and gotten beaten up so many times and thought about quitting.
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Have I ever thought about quitting?
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I will never, ever quit ever.
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I can say that you might not me out.
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I won't be damned if I quit.
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What's the darkest moment?
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Is it injury related?
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Like, is it, uh, so like, to me, like two possibilities, I've fortunately never been
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seriously injured, but I think that's a dark place to be like having to be out for many
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months, uh, for, um, as Jen was saying, like with a head injury, especially like the uncertainty
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And then the other side is if you have big ambitions as a competitor, realizing that
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you're not as good, like those, those doubts were like, I kind of suck.
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How am I supposed to be a world?
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The greatest fighter of all time.
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If I, if, if like several people in the gym are kicking my ass, those are the two things
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that paralyze you.
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I think that everyone's darkest moment is maybe different looking from the outside for
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I wouldn't say that he's had injuries and he's had bad ones.
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I wouldn't say that was his darkest moment.
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I think for me, I would say some of my head injury was my darkest moment.
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And I've torn my ACL twice.
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I've torn my shoulders four times.
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I've had lots of surgeries.
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For me, the orthopedic injuries were not the most difficult.
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It was the brain injury for others that might be the case for them.
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Maybe they've never experienced an injury and maybe for them, that's their darkest moment
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from the outside, obviously Ryan can speak to this more, but for Ryan, I think it was
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the inability to, to perform at certain points to the upper, the missing of opportunities
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that for him, from my perspective, watching him go through and having seen various points
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of his growth from, from early purple belt on, I think the hardest time for him looking
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in obviously was when he would hit moments where he wasn't able to perform for various
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He couldn't get fights.
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He, he was having difficulties there.
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I think that that was the hardest point for him.
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Did you, did you think like with the head injury that you might not, never be able to
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I mean, I, I, mine was very, was really bad and it was just the one hit, but I had a looping
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memories for seven months.
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Didn't know it because when your brain's messed up, you're not even aware that you're
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And so I saw two different neurologists.
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I finally, like it took a very long time.
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I didn't know if I was going to be able to have like linear thoughts or read a book.
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I didn't know at certain points if I could listen to music again, you know, without it
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making my head hurt.
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And so it was almost two years before I woke up in the morning without a headache.
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Just waking up before I even start my day.
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And so that's even bigger than jujitsu.
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That's just, that's just hard.
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And I think that you can experience so many things.
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I've had all these injuries.
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We lost a baby when I was 15, 15 weeks.
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And we've had all these experiences and what the hardest point for me, not saying all those
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things weren't hard, but it's kind of like, well, did you go through these?
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You just realize like life goes on and you have to keep working at it and you have to
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And you asked me earlier offline, did I feel depressed and not for my head injury.
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I don't think that at least in the moment I had a, any recognition of that.