back to indexJoe Rogan: Fear, Love, Chaos, and the Joe Rogan Experience | Lex Fridman Podcast #127
link |
The following is a conversation with Joe Rogan that we recorded after my recent
link |
appearance on his podcast, The Joe Rogan Experience.
link |
Joe has been an inspiration to me and I think to millions of people for just
link |
being somebody who puts love out there in the world and being genuinely
link |
curious about wild ideas from chimps and psychedelics to quantum
link |
mechanics and artificial intelligence.
link |
Like many of you, I've been a fan of his podcast for over a decade and now
link |
somehow miraculously I'm humbled to be able to call him a friend.
link |
If you enjoy this thing, subscribe on YouTube, review it with five
link |
stars on Apple Podcasts, follow on Spotify, support on Patreon or connect
link |
with me on Twitter at Lex Freedman.
link |
Today's sponsors are Neuro, 8Sleep, Dollar Shave Club and Olive Garden.
link |
Home of the Unlimited Breadsticks and Brian Radban's favorite restaurant.
link |
Check out the first three of the sponsors in the description to get a
link |
discount and to support this podcast.
link |
I usually do full ad reads here and never ads in the middle, but this time
link |
let's go straight to the conversation with a bit of guitar first.
link |
Do you ponder your mortality?
link |
Are you afraid of death?
link |
I do think about it sometimes.
link |
I mean, it does pop into my head sometimes.
link |
Just the fact that, uh, I mean, I'm 53.
link |
So if everything goes great, I have less than 50 years left.
link |
You know, if everything goes great, like no car accidents, no injuries.
link |
But it could happen today.
link |
This could be your last day.
link |
That's kind of a stoic thing to meditate on death.
link |
There's a bunch of philosophers, Ernest Becker and Sheldon Solomon.
link |
They believe that death is at the core of everything, wrote this book, Warm at the Core.
link |
So does that come into play in the way you see the world?
link |
I think having a sense of urgency is very beneficial and understanding that your time
link |
is limited can aid you greatly.
link |
I think, uh, knowing that this is a temporary time that we have finite lifespans,
link |
I think there's a, there's great power in that because it motivates you.
link |
It gets you going.
link |
I think being an immortal living forever would be one of the most depressing things,
link |
particularly if everybody else was dying around you.
link |
And I think one of the things that makes life so interesting and fascinating is that
link |
it doesn't last, you know, that you, you really get a brief amount of time here.
link |
And really by the time you're just starting to kind of figure yourself out who you are
link |
and how not to screw things up so bad, like time's up.
link |
What about from your, like, from your daughter's perspective?
link |
Do you, do you, uh, think about the world we're in now and what kind of world we're in
link |
and what kind of world you're going to leave them?
link |
And do you worry about it?
link |
I do when I see these, uh, protests and riots and chaos and so much,
link |
so much, uh, anger in the world today.
link |
And then particularly today, I think because of the pandemic and the fact that
link |
so many folks are out of work and through no fault of their own and can't make ends meet.
link |
And just people feel so helpless and angry.
link |
It's, uh, a particularly divisive time.
link |
It's a particularly turmoil filled time.
link |
And, uh, it just doesn't seem like the world of a year ago even,
link |
it feels very chaotic and dangerous.
link |
And this, and it's a small thing, like in terms of the, like the possibilities of things that
link |
could happen to the world, like a pandemic, like the one we've experienced, it really just
link |
doubles the amount of deaths on a bad flu year.
link |
So it's relatively speaking is a small thing comparison to
link |
super volcano eruptions, asteroid impact, uh, a real horrific pandemic or one that,
link |
you know, really wipes out millions and millions of people.
link |
It's, um, it's stunning how fragile civility is.
link |
It's stunning how fragile our, our, our society really is that something like this can come along
link |
some unprecedented thing, unprecedented thing can come along and all of a sudden everybody's
link |
out of work for six months and then everybody's at each other's throats and then politically,
link |
everyone's at each other's throats.
link |
And, and then with the advent of social media and, uh, the images that you can see,
link |
you know, with the videos of police abuse and just racial tensions are at an all time high.
link |
To a point where like, if you asked me just five or six years ago,
link |
like our, have racial problems in this country largely been alleviated,
link |
I'd probably say, yeah, it's way better than it's ever been before.
link |
But now you could argue that it's not.
link |
Now you could argue it's no, it's way worse and, and just a small amount of time.
link |
It's way worse than it's ever been during my lifetime.
link |
You cut while, while I'm aware of it.
link |
You know, obviously when I was a young boy in the sixties,
link |
they were still going through the civil rights movement.
link |
But now, uh, it just seems very fever pitched.
link |
And I think a lot of that is because of the pandemic and is because of all the,
link |
the heightened, uh, just tension.
link |
The, what, what I likened it to is, um, Pete, road rage, because, you know,
link |
people have road rage, not just because they're in the car and no one can get to them,
link |
but also because you're at a heightened state because you're driving fast and you know,
link |
you're driving fast, you know, you have to make split second movements.
link |
And so anybody doing something, you're like, what the, people go crazy because they're,
link |
they're already at an eight because they're in the car and they're moving very quickly.
link |
That's what it feels like with today, with the pandemic.
link |
It feels like everybody is already at an eight.
link |
So anything that comes along, it's like light it all on fire, you know, burn it down.
link |
Like that's part of what I think is part of the reason for a lot of the looting and the riots
link |
and all the chaos.
link |
It's not just the people out of work, but it's also that everyone feels so tense already.
link |
And everyone feels so helpless and it's like, you know, doing something like that makes people,
link |
it just, it gives people a whole new motivation for chaos, a whole new motivation for
link |
doing destructive things that I've never experienced in my life.
link |
And your better days when you see a positive future, what do you think is the way out
link |
of this chaos of 2020?
link |
Like if you visualize a 2025, that's a better world than today.
link |
How do we get there and what does that look like?
link |
It's a good question.
link |
I can honestly say I don't know and I wouldn't have said I don't know a year ago.
link |
A year ago, I would have said we're going to be okay.
link |
As much as people hate Trump, the economy is doing great.
link |
I think we're going to be fine.
link |
That's not how I feel today.
link |
Today, I don't think there's a clear solution politically because I think if Trump wins,
link |
people are going to be furious.
link |
And I think if Biden wins, people are going to be furious.
link |
Particularly like if things get more woke, you know, if people continue to enforce
link |
force compliance and make people behave a certain way and act a certain way, which seems
link |
to be a part of what this whole woke thing is that is the most disturbing for me is that I see
link |
what's going on. I see there's a lot of losers that have hopped on this and they shove it in
link |
people's faces and it doesn't have to make sense.
link |
It's like there was a Black Lives Matter protest that stopped this woman at a restaurant.
link |
They were surrounding her outside a restaurant.
link |
They were forcing her to raise her fist in compliance.
link |
This is a woman who's marched for Black Lives Matter multiple times and the people around
link |
her doing this were all white.
link |
My friend Coach T, he's a wrestling coach who's also on a podcast.
link |
My friend Brian Moses, his take on it is that Black, and he's a Black guy.
link |
He says Black Lives Matter is a white cult.
link |
And I'm like, when you see that picture, it's hard to argue that he's got a point.
link |
I mean, it's clearly not all about that, but there's a lot of people that have jumped on
link |
board that are very much like cult members.
link |
Because the thing about Black Lives Matter or any movement is you can't control who joins.
link |
There's no entrance examination.
link |
So you don't go, okay, how do you feel about this?
link |
What's your perceptions on that?
link |
The man who shot the Trump supporter in Portland, that guy who murdered the Trump
link |
supporter then the cop shot him, that guy was walking around with his hand on his gun
link |
looking for Trump supporters, I mean, he's a known violent guy who was walking around
link |
looking for Trump supporters, found one and shot one.
link |
That has nothing to do with Black Lives Matter.
link |
He's a white guy, he shot another white guy.
link |
It's just madness.
link |
That kind of madness is disturbing to see it ramp up so quickly.
link |
There's been riots in Portland every night, excuse me, demonstrations, for 101 days now.
link |
101 days in a row of them lighting things on fire, breaking into federal buildings.
link |
It's like, who ever saw that coming?
link |
Nobody saw that coming.
link |
So I don't know what the solution is and I don't know what it looks like in five years.
link |
So 2025, to answer your question, there could be anything.
link |
I mean, we could be looking at Mad Max.
link |
We could be looking at the apocalypse.
link |
We could also be looking at an invasion from another country.
link |
We could be looking at a war, like a real hot war to put a little bit of responsibility on you.
link |
Like for me, I've listened to you since the red band Olive Garden days,
link |
that's the very beginning.
link |
And there was something in the way you communicated about the world.
link |
Maybe there was others, but you're the one I was aware of is you're open minded and
link |
like loving towards the world, especially as the podcast developed.
link |
Like you just demonstrated and lived this kind of just kindness,
link |
or maybe even like lack of jealousy in your own little profession of comedy.
link |
It was clear that you didn't succumb to the weaker aspects of human nature
link |
and thereby inspire like people like me, who I was naturally,
link |
probably especially in the early 20s, kind of jealous on the success of others.
link |
And you're really the primary person that taught me to truly celebrate the success of others.
link |
And so by way of question, you kind of have a role in this of making a better 2025.
link |
You have such a big megaphone.
link |
Is there something you think you can do on this podcast with the words,
link |
the way you talk, the things you discuss that could create a better 2025?
link |
I think if anything, I could help in leading by example,
link |
but that's only going to help the people that are listening.
link |
I don't know what else I can do in terms of like make the world a better place other than
link |
express my hopes and wishes for that and just try to be as nice as I can to people as often as I can.
link |
But I also think that I've fallen into this weird category,
link |
particularly with the Spotify deal, where I'm one of them now.
link |
I'm not a regular person anymore.
link |
Now I'm like some famous rich guy.
link |
So you go from being a regular person to a famous rich guy that's out of touch.
link |
And that's a real issue whenever you're talking about the economy, about just real life problems.
link |
It kind of hurts my heart to hear people say about Elon Musk, he's just a billionaire.
link |
It's an interesting statement.
link |
But I think if you just continue being you and he continued being him,
link |
people are just voicing their worry that he becomes some rich guy.
link |
I don't even know if they're doing that.
link |
I think they're just finding the way he describes it, an attack vector.
link |
Yeah, and I think he's right.
link |
I think they can dismiss you by just saying, oh, you're just a that.
link |
You know, you're easily definable.
link |
But there, I mean, there's truth to that.
link |
If you're not careful, you can become out of touch, but that's an interesting thing.
link |
Like why haven't you become out of touch?
link |
Like as a human off the podcast, you talk to somebody like me.
link |
You don't talk like a famous person or you don't act rich.
link |
Like you're better than others.
link |
There's a certain, listen, I've talked to quite a few, you have two, but I've talked
link |
to especially kind of group of people that are like Nobel Prize winners, let's say.
link |
They have sometimes have an air to them that's of arrogance and you don't.
link |
What's that about?
link |
Well, you got to know what that is, right?
link |
Like that air of arrogance comes from drinking your own Kool Aid.
link |
You start believing that somehow or another, just because you're getting praise from all
link |
these people that you really are something different.
link |
Usually it exemplifies, there's something there where there's a lack of struggle.
link |
You know, and I think struggle is probably one of the most important balancing tools
link |
that a person can have.
link |
That a person can have and for me, I struggle mentally and I struggle physically.
link |
I struggle mentally in that, like we were talking about on the podcast we did previously.
link |
You and I on my podcast said, I'm not a fan of my work.
link |
I'm not a fan of what I do.
link |
I'm my harshest critic.
link |
So anytime anybody says something bad about me, I'm like, listen, I said way worse about
link |
myself, I don't like anything I do, I'm ruthlessly introspective and I will continue to be that way
link |
because that's the only way you could be good as a comedian.
link |
There's no other way.
link |
You can't just think you're awesome and just go out there.
link |
You have to be like picking apart everything you do, but there's a balance to that too
link |
because you have to have enough confidence to go out there and perform.
link |
You can't think, oh my God, I suck.
link |
I know what I'm doing, but I know what I'm doing because I put in all that work.
link |
And one of the reasons why I put in all that work is I don't like the end
link |
result most of the time.
link |
So I need to work at it all the time.
link |
And then there's physical struggle, which I think balances everything out.
link |
Without physical struggle, I always make the analogy that the body is in a lot of ways like
link |
a battery where if you have extra charge, it's like it leaks out of the top and it becomes
link |
unmanageable and messy.
link |
And that's how my psyche is if I have too much energy, if I'm not exerting myself in a
link |
violent way, like an explosive way, like wearing myself out.
link |
I just don't like the way the world is.
link |
I don't like the way I interface with the world.
link |
I'm too quick to be upset about things.
link |
But when I work out hard and I put in a brutal training session, everything's fine.
link |
Well, the first time I talked to you on Jerry, you were doing sober October and there's
link |
something in your eyes.
link |
Like I think you've talked about that you exercise the demons out essentially.
link |
So you exercise to get whatever the parts of you that you don't like out.
link |
There's a darkness in you there, like the competitiveness and the focus of that person.
link |
And that was a scary time in a lot of ways, that sober October thing because my friends,
link |
we're all talking shit, right?
link |
Because we're competing against each other in these fitness challenges.
link |
And you had one point, like you got a certain amount of points for each minute that you went
link |
at 80% of your max heart rate.
link |
And one day I got 1,100 points.
link |
So I did seven hours on an elliptical machine watching the bathhouse scene from John Wick,
link |
where he murders all those people in the bathhouse.
link |
I watched him probably 50 times in a row.
link |
I went crazy, but I went crazy in a weird way where it brought me back to my fighting days.
link |
It was like the same, that person came out again.
link |
It was like, well, I didn't even know he was in there.
link |
It's like there, like an assassin, like a killer.
link |
Like I felt like a different person.
link |
Is it echoes of like what Mike Tyson talked about, essentially, like the...
link |
Maybe, but no orgasmic notions.
link |
That was the craziest shit that he was saying.
link |
Is there a violent person in there?
link |
Oh yeah, there's a lot of violence in me for sure.
link |
I don't know if it's genetic or learned or...
link |
It's because during my formative years from the time I was 15 until I was 22, all I did was fight.
link |
That was all I did.
link |
That was all I did.
link |
All I did was train and compete.
link |
That was my whole life.
link |
Is it connected to...
link |
So your mom and dad broke up early on.
link |
Is it connected to the dad at all?
link |
I'm sure it's connected to him also because he was violent and it made me feel very scared to be around him.
link |
But I also think it's connected in who he was as a human is transferred into my DNA.
link |
I think there's a certain amount of...
link |
I mean, to be prejudice against myself,
link |
I look like a violent person.
link |
If I didn't know me, even the way I'm built, not even just the working out part,
link |
just the size of my hands and the width of my shoulders.
link |
There's most likely a lot of violence in my history, in my past, in my ancestry.
link |
I think we minimize that with people.
link |
So much of your behavior, when I see my daughter, I have one daughter that's obsessive
link |
in terms of like she wants to get really good at things.
link |
And she'll practice things all day long and it's 100% my personality.
link |
Like she's me in a female form.
link |
But without the anger as much and without the fear, like she has loving household and everything like that.
link |
But she has this intense obsession with doing things and doing things really well and getting better.
link |
We have to tell her, stop.
link |
Like stop doing handsprings in the house.
link |
Come on, just sit down, have dinner.
link |
Like one more, one more.
link |
And I think there's a lot of behavior and personality and a lot of these things are
link |
passed down through genetics.
link |
We don't really know, right?
link |
We don't know how much of who you are genetically is learned behavior, nature or nurture.
link |
We don't know if it's learned behavior or whether or not it's something that's intrinsically a part
link |
of you because of who your parents were.
link |
I think there's certainly some genetic violence in me.
link |
And then you channeled it.
link |
So you figured out basically your life is a productive exploration of how to channel that.
link |
How to figure out how to get that monkey to sit down and calm down is another person in there.
link |
Like there's a calm, rational, kind, friendly person who just wants to laugh and have fun.
link |
And then there's that dude who comes out when I did sober October.
link |
I don't like that guy.
link |
That guy just wants to get up in the morning and go.
link |
When I was competing, it was necessary, but it makes me remember.
link |
I didn't really remember what I used to be like until that.
link |
It's like when I'm working out seven hours a day and I'm just so obsessed and all I was
link |
thinking about was winning.
link |
That's all I was thinking about.
link |
Like if they were working out five hours a day, I wanted them to know that I was going
link |
to work out an extra three hours and I was going to get up early and I was going to text them all,
link |
hey, pussies, I'm up already, take pictures, send selfies.
link |
You're going to die.
link |
Oh, I kept telling them, you're all going to die.
link |
You try to keep up with me.
link |
You're going to die.
link |
You weren't fully joking.
link |
No, I wasn't joking at all.
link |
That's what was fucked up about it.
link |
This is the scary thing when I interacted with Goggans and what I saw in you during that time
link |
is this guy, this is why I've been avoiding David Goggans recently,
link |
is because he wants to talk on this podcast, but he also wants to run an ultramarathon with me.
link |
I felt like this is a person, if I spend any time in this realm, if I spend any time with
link |
a Joe Rogan of that sober October, I might have to die to get out.
link |
There's a competitive aspect that's super unhealthy.
link |
I mean, you saw the video that we watched earlier today of Goggans draining his knee.
link |
That would stop me from running ever again because I would think in my head, okay,
link |
I'm going to ruin my cartilage.
link |
I'm going to need a knee replacement.
link |
I would start thinking, I would go down that line, but he is perpetually in this push it
link |
mindset, what he calls the dog in him.
link |
He's got, that dog is in him all day long and he feeds that dog and that's who he is.
link |
That's one of the reasons why he's so inspirational and he's fuel for millions and millions of people.
link |
I mean, he really is.
link |
He motivates people in a way that is so powerful, but it can be very destructive.
link |
I know now, especially after the sober October thing, that that thing's still in me.
link |
I didn't know because I really haven't done anything physically competitive.
link |
Except one time I was supposed to fight Wesley Snipes.
link |
It came out then too.
link |
That came out too.
link |
That got creepy too, but luckily that never happened.
link |
But that was many months of training, like training twice a day, every day.
link |
Kickboxing in the morning, Jiu Jitsu at night.
link |
I was just going and going and going and going and I was just thinking just all day long.
link |
But it fucks with all the other aspects of your life.
link |
It fucks with your friendships, it fucks with my comedy, it fucks with everything.
link |
Because that mindset is not a mindset of an artist.
link |
It's a mindset of a conqueror.
link |
The conqueror and a destroyer.
link |
That's why it's so interesting to see Mike Tyson make the switch.
link |
It's clear that whatever that is, however that fight goes, there's a switch.
link |
He stepped into a different dimension.
link |
Roy Jones Jr. is coming on my podcast soon and Roy's going to be on before the fight.
link |
I'm so curious to see how it goes down, but genuinely concerned.
link |
Because Mike Tyson is a heavyweight and Roy Jones at his best was 168 pounds.
link |
I don't know if Roy has that room in his house, mental house of where Mike Tyson goes.
link |
I don't know if he has that room.
link |
Mike doesn't have a room.
link |
He's got an empire in there.
link |
He opens up the door.
link |
He opens up the door.
link |
There's a whole empire in his head and he's in that firmly.
link |
You know, when he got out of the weed and started training again,
link |
like you could see it in him.
link |
And by the way, physically, in person, he looks spectacular.
link |
He looks like a fucking Adonis.
link |
I mean, he looks ready to go.
link |
Yeah, watching videos of him.
link |
Have you ever considered competing in Jiu Jitsu?
link |
No, for that very reason.
link |
I don't want to get obsessed.
link |
That's my number one concern.
link |
I had to quit video games when we were playing video games at the studio.
link |
I had to quit because I was playing five hours a day out of nowhere.
link |
All of a sudden, I was playing five hours a day.
link |
I was coming home late for dinner.
link |
I was ending podcasts early and jumping on the video games and playing.
link |
I get obsessed with things and I have to recognize what that is.
link |
And these competitive things, like competitive, especially like really exciting competitive
link |
things like video games, they're very dangerous for me.
link |
The ultimate competitive video game is like Jiu Jitsu.
link |
And if I was young, I most certainly would have done it.
link |
If I didn't have a very clear career path, it was something that I enjoyed.
link |
My concern would be that I would become a professional Jiu Jitsu fighter when I was young.
link |
And then I would not have the energy to do stand up and do all the other things that I
link |
wound up doing as a career.
link |
When I was 21, I quit my job teaching.
link |
I was teaching at Boston University.
link |
I was teaching Taekwondo there.
link |
And I knew, and I also had my own school in Revere.
link |
I knew I couldn't do it right and also be doing stand up comedy.
link |
I knew I couldn't do both of those things.
link |
You have to be cognizant of that obsessive force within you to make sure.
link |
I'd have to know how to manage my mental illness.
link |
That's a very particular mental illness.
link |
And I think that mental illness, again, my formative years from 15 till I was
link |
21ish, 22, those years were spent constantly obsessed with martial arts.
link |
That was my whole day.
link |
I mean, I trained almost every day.
link |
The only time I would not train is if I was either injured or if I was exhausted,
link |
if I needed a day off, but I was obsessed.
link |
That part of my personality that I haven't nurtured is always going to be there under
link |
the surface and when it gets reignited by something.
link |
It's a very weird, it's a weird feeling.
link |
And it can get reignited with a video game.
link |
It can get reignited with anything, that obsessive, whatever it is, that competitive demon.
link |
The way you talk about guitar, I know you would fall in love with playing guitar,
link |
but I think you're very wise to not touch that thing.
link |
That's why I want golf.
link |
I have friends who want to golf.
link |
I'm like, I don't fucking want that thing.
link |
So a lot of people ask me, what's Joe Rogan's Jiu Jitsu game like?
link |
Assuming that I somehow spend hours rolling with you before and after.
link |
I mean, what's a good, you should at some point show a technique or something.
link |
That would be fun.
link |
What's your game like?
link |
What's your technique?
link |
Oh, I saw you doing a, I think, head and arm something online.
link |
That was, I fucked my neck.
link |
I'm doing head and arm shows.
link |
I did them so much that I, you know, because you use your neck so much with head and arms
link |
chokes, I developed like a real kink in my neck and turned out I had a bulging disc.
link |
So you do it on that, just one side?
link |
Well, it was, no, I could do it on the left side, but I definitely am better on the right side.
link |
The right side was my best side.
link |
So if you were to compete, let's say, like, what's your A game?
link |
What would you go from standing up?
link |
How would you go to submission?
link |
Would you pull guard?
link |
Would you take down?
link |
Well, how would you pass guard?
link |
I don't have good takedowns.
link |
I was not a good wrestler.
link |
So I would most likely either pull guard or I would pull half guard.
link |
Do you have a good guard?
link |
Are you comfortable being on your butt and your back?
link |
Yes, I'm very flexible.
link |
So I have good, my rubber guard is pretty good.
link |
You go to rubber guard.
link |
You have good arm bars and good triangles off my back.
link |
But I also have a very good half guard, but my top game is my best.
link |
I have a very strong top game.
link |
Do you have a half guard?
link |
Do you have a preference of what kind of guard
link |
and how to pass that guard?
link |
And like, yeah, like, is there a specific game plan?
link |
Like, would you double under hooks from half guard
link |
is the game plan for me?
link |
If I can get double under hooks from half guard,
link |
I could sweep a lot of people.
link |
Under hooks of what?
link |
Sorry, the arms or the legs?
link |
So half guard, lockdown, right?
link |
Half guard, go into lockdown, double under hooks.
link |
Clench to the body.
link |
Suck the body in tight.
link |
And yeah, massive pressure.
link |
And then inch my way into a position.
link |
We call the dog fight.
link |
And inch my way to a position where I could get the person on their back.
link |
Yeah, that's what, because you did show me,
link |
I still disagree with you about the tie thing.
link |
That you can choke something with it.
link |
So wrong, so wrong.
link |
Well, it's not wrong with you.
link |
With you, it's wrong because you.
link |
No, I think there's a system.
link |
I have this thing with Donna here.
link |
We're going to figure it out.
link |
Let's have a little velcro on the back.
link |
No, let's see, that's, you're just not the king.
link |
You're not, you're the exact, that's cheating.
link |
Yeah, you did, I did feel when you showed me,
link |
I think you showed me the rubber guard,
link |
because it's still a guard that's a little bit foreign to me.
link |
I just felt that you can immediately feel,
link |
not with the rubber guard, just,
link |
but the way you move your body is you're like a Shonji type of guy
link |
who knows how to control another human being.
link |
So like some people are a little bit more, I would say agile
link |
and technically like playful and kind of.
link |
Loose and they work on transition, transition, transition.
link |
You're a control guy.
link |
Like you know how to control position and advance position.
link |
Donna is the same way.
link |
He's all about control.
link |
My, my game is smush.
link |
Smush you, grab ahold of you.
link |
Once I have you, why would I let you go?
link |
That's my thought is like, why would I let you go?
link |
I just want to incrementally move to a better position
link |
until I can strangle you.
link |
But I'm much more into strangling people than anything else.
link |
Yeah, which is a great MMA approach for Jiu Jitsu.
link |
Well, too many people don't tap when you get their arms.
link |
You know, and it's not, I'm not opposed to arm bars.
link |
I love arm bars, but everybody goes to sleep.
link |
And, and quit from pressure too.
link |
I mean, quit mentally.
link |
Yeah, you can't breathe.
link |
You know, if you got a guy who's like a really good top game guy
link |
and he mounts you and I'm a big fan of mounting
link |
with my legs crossed, you know, like a guard,
link |
And so I can squeeze with both legs and smush.
link |
And I'm just, I'm just looking for people to make mistakes
link |
and slowly incrementally bettering my position
link |
until I can get something locked up.
link |
I love Jiu Jitsu though, man.
link |
I just wish it didn't injure you.
link |
You know, Jiu Jitsu is like,
link |
if your joints were more durable,
link |
they could figure out a way to make joints more durable.
link |
God, Jiu Jitsu forever.
link |
Actually, I talked to this roboticist, Russ Tedrick.
link |
He builds one of the world class people
link |
that builds human robots.
link |
You're interested in Boston Dynamics.
link |
He's one of the key people in that kind of robotics.
link |
So I asked him the stupidest question of like,
link |
how far are we from having a robot be a UFC champion?
link |
And yeah, it's actually a really, really tough problem.
link |
It's the same thing that, you know,
link |
makes somebody like Danielle Comey,
link |
like on the wrestling side, special,
link |
because you have to understand the movement of the human body
link |
in ways that's so difficult to teach.
link |
It's so subtle, the timing, the pressure points,
link |
like the leverage, all those kinds of things.
link |
That's just for the clinch situation.
link |
And then the movement for the striking is very difficult.
link |
As long as you're not allowed as a robot
link |
to like use your natural abilities
link |
of having a lot more power.
link |
Right. A lot more power and then more durable.
link |
The human body, like especially meniscus,
link |
like you see the heel hook game,
link |
like everybody's involved in leg locks and heel hooks,
link |
like all those guys wind up with torched knees.
link |
Everyone's got torched knees.
link |
Everyone's knees are torn apart.
link |
And you don't grow new meniscus.
link |
You know, that's like one of those joints where, man,
link |
when it goes, it's like, you know,
link |
those guys are 28 years old have blown out knees.
link |
Let me ask the ridiculous question.
link |
What do you think, we're talking about cops.
link |
So what do you think is the best martial arts,
link |
For sure, Jiu Jitsu.
link |
I think grappling, I should say.
link |
What judo as well, especially, you know, cold climate,
link |
if you get someone who's got like a heavy winter jacket on,
link |
my God, like judo is an incredible martial art.
link |
That's the worst place to be with a heavy winter jacket
link |
with a judo specialist and you're standing up with them.
link |
But I think grappling, because in most self defense situations,
link |
it usually winds up with grappling.
link |
You're definitely better off though, knowing some striking,
link |
because there's nothing more terrifying than when you go
link |
to take someone down, they actually have takedown skills,
link |
but they can fight.
link |
And so they have takedown defense and they know how to fight,
link |
and then you don't know how to stand up.
link |
Like the worst thing in the world is seeing someone like
link |
reaching who doesn't know how to do striking
link |
and someone cracks you.
link |
What about all that Krav Magat talk, which is like,
link |
you know, the whole line of argument that says that
link |
Jiu Jitsu and wrestling and all of these sports,
link |
they fundamentally take you away from the nature of violence.
link |
So they're just teaching you how to play
link |
versus the reality of violence that is involved
link |
in like a self defense situation
link |
that is a totally different set of skills would be needed.
link |
In general, the people that say that Jiu Jitsu
link |
or other martial arts don't, it's more of a sport,
link |
and they don't really understand violence.
link |
In general, the people that say that suck.
link |
Anybody who thinks like someone's like,
link |
you know, hey man, I'll just bite you.
link |
I'm like, are you going to bite me?
link |
Do you think I'm going to bite you too?
link |
What do you think of that?
link |
What if I punch you in your fucking face?
link |
You think you're still going to bite me
link |
when you can't even see?
link |
When you barely even know you're alive?
link |
And I choke you unconscious?
link |
If someone's really good at Jiu Jitsu,
link |
good luck stabbing them with your keys.
link |
You know, you don't have a chance.
link |
You don't have a chance.
link |
If someone's much better at you
link |
and they trip you and get you on your back
link |
and then they fucking elbow you in your face
link |
and then get a head and arm choke on you,
link |
all that crap, my gosh, it's out the window, son.
link |
You're way better off learning what works on trained killers.
link |
Like this whole idea that you're going to poke some in the eye
link |
and then you're going to kick them in the nuts.
link |
And you're going through these drills
link |
that, yeah, it's good to know what to do
link |
if you run into someone who doesn't know how to fight.
link |
It's way better to know what to do
link |
to someone who knows how to fight.
link |
That's the best thing.
link |
Learn how to fight against people who know how to fight.
link |
Like all that practice self defense
link |
and they go, I'm just going to come at you with a knife.
link |
You're going to grab the wrist and do that.
link |
Like it's good to know self defense.
link |
But it's much more important to understand martial arts.
link |
When you understand martial arts, comprehensively.
link |
Like there's no, I shouldn't say there's no CROVMA guy guys,
link |
but it would be shocking if a CROVMA guy guy
link |
and a mixed martial arts guy had a fight,
link |
and the mixed martial arts guy was a trained killer all around,
link |
didn't fuck that guy up.
link |
That's what I would expect would happen.
link |
I would not think that some guy who has a little bit of this
link |
and a little bit of that and prepares for the streets
link |
is going to be able to handle a person who trains with killers
link |
on a day to day basis, who rolls with Jiu Jitsu black belts,
link |
who trains with Muay Thai champions.
link |
Like the best martial arts are the martial arts
link |
that work on martial artists,
link |
not the martial arts that work on untrained people.
link |
What about we're in Texas now, what about guns?
link |
Well, that's the best martial art.
link |
No, but would you, like in this crazy time,
link |
should people carry guns?
link |
It's not a bad idea to have a gun,
link |
because if you need a gun, you have a gun.
link |
And if you don't need a gun,
link |
if you're a person with self control, you're not going to use it.
link |
You're not going to just randomly use it,
link |
but you have something to protect you.
link |
This is the whole idea of the Second Amendment.
link |
The whole idea of the Second Amendment gets distorted
link |
by mass shootings or by terrible people who murder people
link |
and do terrible things, but all those things are real,
link |
but they don't take away from the fundamental,
link |
the fundamental efficacy of having a firearm
link |
and defending your family or defending your life.
link |
And there are real live situations
link |
where people have had firearms and it's protected them
link |
or their loved ones or they've stopped shooters.
link |
There's many of these stories,
link |
but people don't like those stories,
link |
because then it tends to lead to this gun culture argument,
link |
this pro gun culture argument,
link |
that people find very uncomfortable.
link |
It's, human beings are messy,
link |
and we're messy in so many different ways, right?
link |
We're messy emotionally, we're messy physically,
link |
but we're also messy in what's good or bad.
link |
We want things to be binary.
link |
We want things to be right or wrong, one or zero.
link |
And they're not, but there is crime in the world.
link |
And there is violence in the world,
link |
and you're better off knowing how to fight
link |
and you're better off knowing how to defend yourself
link |
and you're better off having a gun.
link |
And I generally think that guns,
link |
I do like the idea that guns,
link |
Second Amendment helps protect the First Amendment.
link |
There is a kind of sense that puts me at ease
link |
knowing that so many people in this country have guns,
link |
that, I mean, Alex Jones,
link |
I just listened to one episode of Info Wars for the first time.
link |
Boy, he reminds me like when I drank some tequila,
link |
I felt like I'm going to some dark places today.
link |
That's how I feel like listening to him.
link |
But he talks about like that it's,
link |
he worries about martial law.
link |
So basically government overreach by,
link |
which happened throughout history.
link |
Like there's, there's something to worry about there.
link |
But it's, it puts me at ease knowing
link |
that so much of the population has guns
link |
that people government would think twice
link |
before instituting martial law on cities.
link |
But I actually was asking almost like on the individual level.
link |
I maybe shouldn't say this,
link |
but I don't yet own a gun.
link |
And I felt that if I carry a gun statistically,
link |
just for me as a human knowing my psychology,
link |
I feel like I'm more likely to die.
link |
Like I feel like I would put myself in situations
link |
Like the way I, I will see the world will change.
link |
Because my natural feeling is like when somebody,
link |
when I was in Philly,
link |
and I knew late at night if West Philly,
link |
when some guy looks at you,
link |
and you can immediately calculate
link |
that there's this dangerous human being there,
link |
it starts with a monkey look at first.
link |
Like I'm a bigger monkey than you.
link |
And that's where I found like, for example,
link |
I'll do the beta thing of just looking down
link |
and turning away and just getting out of trouble,
link |
like very politely.
link |
And basically that kind of approach,
link |
because if you have a,
link |
in terms of getting out of serious violent situations,
link |
like serious, something where you could die, versus
link |
if I had a gun, I feel like I would want to be,
link |
that that would be that cowboy monkey thing
link |
where I would want to put myself in situations
link |
where I'm a little bit of a savior, even of myself,
link |
and almost create danger which can no longer,
link |
like the escalation of which I can no longer control.
link |
Well, you're talking about taking a gun somewhere
link |
versus having a gun in your home.
link |
Yes, yes. I mean carry on me.
link |
That's a different situation and much harder
link |
to get a warrant or a license for that.
link |
Control concealed carry licenses, especially in Massachusetts.
link |
They don't come easy.
link |
A little message. Yeah, that's a whole other thing.
link |
But you're saying gun in the home.
link |
Yeah, gun in the home.
link |
Having a gun, knowing how to use a gun.
link |
Like I know how to use a gun.
link |
I've trained many hours
link |
learning how to shoot a gun at tactical places.
link |
There's a bunch of videos of me doing it on Instagram.
link |
That's interesting.
link |
I practice and I think it's good to understand
link |
to how to be accurate.
link |
So I've been a fan of your podcast for a long time.
link |
You don't often talk about it
link |
because you're always kind of looking forward.
link |
But if you look at the old studio that you just left,
link |
is there some epic memories that stand out to you
link |
that you almost look back?
link |
I can't believe this happened.
link |
Oh yeah, almost too many of them to count.
link |
Is there something that pops into mind now?
link |
All of them, Elon Musk blowing that flame thrower
link |
in the middle of the hallway.
link |
I got a video of that.
link |
Have you ever seen the video of it?
link |
Yeah, I think you post that on Instagram.
link |
I think I did too.
link |
Yeah, he's a madman.
link |
Having Bernie Sanders in there.
link |
Just all the fun fight companions we did
link |
and all the crazy podcasts with Joey Diaz
link |
and Duncan Trussell.
link |
There were so many, there were so many moments.
link |
It's podcasts, this is a weird art form
link |
and it almost seems like, it sounds silly,
link |
but it almost seems like something that chose me
link |
rather than I chose it.
link |
I think of that all the time in some strange way.
link |
It's like I'm showing up as like an antenna
link |
and I just plug in and twist on
link |
and then I take in the thing and I put it together
link |
and I'm like a passenger of this weird ride.
link |
Yeah, you talked about this before.
link |
I really like this idea of that human beings
link |
are just carriers of these ideas.
link |
Ideas are the ones who are breeding.
link |
So in a sense like the idea found you
link |
as a useful brain to use to spread itself
link |
through the podcasting medium.
link |
But because when I think about your podcast,
link |
I think about Joey Diaz.
link |
I think about all those comedians you've had.
link |
I mean, I think you've had Joey on,
link |
I mean, maybe close to 50 times 60.
link |
Some crazy number.
link |
Is there, I mean, he is over the top offensive.
link |
Just that's who he is to the core.
link |
Is there some sense where you,
link |
you wondered like whether it's right to have
link |
the Spotify episode number one with Duncan Dressel
link |
No, I wanted to do it that way.
link |
That's why we wore NASA suits and we got high as fuck.
link |
It's like, that's the whole idea behind it.
link |
I mean, can you introspect that a little bit?
link |
Like, what is that?
link |
Because that's rare.
link |
It's such a rare thing to do because you're not supposed to
link |
talk to Duncan Dressel with a huge platform
link |
that you have five hours.
link |
Because Donald Trump apparently watches your podcast.
link |
So just the idea that there's these,
link |
I mean, that's what I think about these CEOs, right?
link |
To me that they listen to the podcast that I do.
link |
And I have somebody like a David Fravor
link |
and I was nervous about it.
link |
I was nervous to have a conversation.
link |
For me, David Fravor is a Duncan Dressel, which is like.
link |
Just because of his experiences with UFOs.
link |
Yeah, just even just the way he sees the world
link |
because he is open.
link |
I don't know if he's always like this,
link |
but he opened himself to the possibility
link |
of unconventional ideas.
link |
Most people in the scientific community kind of say,
link |
well, I don't really want to believe anything
link |
that doesn't have a lot of hard evidence.
link |
And so that was to me like a step.
link |
And as the thing somehow becomes more popular,
link |
there becomes this fear of like, well,
link |
should I talk to this person or not?
link |
And I mean, you're an inspiration in saying like,
link |
do whatever the hell you want.
link |
Well, first of all, I have what you call fuck you money.
link |
And if you have fuck you money, you don't say fuck you.
link |
What's the point of having the fuck you money?
link |
You're wasting it.
link |
Like you're wasting the position.
link |
Like someone said to me like,
link |
why do you like sports cars so much?
link |
Like how many cars do you have a bunch of cars?
link |
So because if I was a kid and I said,
link |
hey, if I was that crazy rich famous guy,
link |
like I don't want to have a bunch of cool fucking cars.
link |
Like so I would do that.
link |
Like because not everybody gets to do that.
link |
Like if you're the person that gets to do that,
link |
you're kind of supposed to do it.
link |
Like that's if you want to, if that really does speak to you
link |
and you know, I've talked to you about this before.
link |
Muscle cars, specifically once for the 1960s and the early 70s,
link |
they speak to me in some weird way, man.
link |
I could just stare at them.
link |
Like I have a 65 Corvette.
link |
I walk around it sometimes at night when no one's around.
link |
What's your favorite muscle car?
link |
Like what's your most badass late 60s, the personal car?
link |
Probably that car, probably that 65 Corvette.
link |
Yeah, I walk around it when no one's around.
link |
I think I've driven the 69 Corvette.
link |
Is there a particular year that just...
link |
65 is generation two.
link |
69 is generation three.
link |
69 is like the, it's even more curvy.
link |
They're both awesome, just awesome in different ways.
link |
But I just love muscle cars for whatever reason.
link |
But the point is like, I like what I like.
link |
And if I can do what I want to do, I should do what I want to do.
link |
And it's not hurting anybody.
link |
And the thing is like, I would do the Duncan podcast
link |
if no one was listening, right?
link |
If we were just starting to do a podcast together
link |
and no one cared and it got like 2000 views,
link |
which we did for years.
link |
Yeah, for a long time.
link |
I would do it with Duncan and we would get high
link |
and we'd talk crazy shit about aliens, the spaceships,
link |
and maybe dude, maybe ideas are living life forms
link |
and they're inside your head and that's how things get...
link |
I've just kind of morphed me and him together and that
link |
because the life form, idea life form idea is mine.
link |
That I've really, I really think about a lot.
link |
I think about on a technical side, by the way.
link |
When I heard you say that, because I've been thinking,
link |
I was like, whoa, that's interesting.
link |
It might be, they might be alive
link |
because I don't know what the fuck they are.
link |
But when someone has an idea for whatever,
link |
an invention, a toaster, and then they think about this,
link |
all they need is like these heating elements in the spring
link |
and then it pops when it's done.
link |
So I have a timer and then they build this thing.
link |
Now all of a sudden it's alive.
link |
It's like you manifested it in a physical form.
link |
A toaster is not the best example, but a car, an airplane.
link |
You're thinking about a thing, like an idea comes into your head
link |
and you can say, oh, well, it's just creativity.
link |
It's a part of being a person.
link |
That's how we invented tools and how we became better hunters.
link |
All those things are true.
link |
I'm not saying that there's some magic to what I'm saying,
link |
but there's also a possibility that we're simplifying something
link |
by saying that it's just creativity,
link |
that it's just a natural human inclination to invent things.
link |
Why is it possible that ideas, like creativity,
link |
like we are the only animal other than there's a few species
link |
that create things like bees, make beehives,
link |
but they're very uniform.
link |
Some animals use tools, chimps will use sticks
link |
to get termites and things like that,
link |
but there's something about what we do that makes you wonder,
link |
because we look at this, just look at this room that we're in.
link |
Look at all these electronics.
link |
Look at all this crazy shit that human beings have invented
link |
and then built upon others inventions, improved and innovated.
link |
These all came out of ideas.
link |
The idea, it germinates in someone's head.
link |
It bounces around.
link |
They write it down.
link |
They share it with others.
link |
The other people who have similar ideas
link |
or ideas that are complementary, they work together
link |
and they change the world.
link |
The new thing in that is the idea is not the people.
link |
It's like we think we found the ideas,
link |
but it's more like the ideas found us.
link |
Find you, yeah, they're literally in the air.
link |
I always felt like that with bits.
link |
Like when I come up with a bit,
link |
that's why I'm always telling people
link |
about the Stephen Pressfield book, The War of Art,
link |
because he talks about respecting the muse
link |
and the idea that your ideas come when you sit down
link |
and you do the work or you sit down like a professional
link |
and you talk to the muse, tell me what to do.
link |
Like if the muse was a real thing,
link |
as if the muse was like some mystical creature
link |
that comes and delivers you ideas,
link |
even if that's not real, that's how it works.
link |
It does work like that.
link |
If you do treat it like it's a muse
link |
and you treat it with the respect
link |
and you treat it like a professional,
link |
the ideas do come to you.
link |
I never thought about what he's doing
link |
is just sitting there waiting for the idea
link |
that's trying to breed to find him.
link |
That's a trippy thing.
link |
If you show up and put in the time
link |
and focus your energy on that,
link |
the ideas, they will arrive.
link |
And that's the same with writing comedy.
link |
I've just been many, many times
link |
where I'll come home from the comedy store
link |
and I just sit down and I start writing
link |
and I just, I've got nothing.
link |
There's nothing there.
link |
It's all bullshit.
link |
It's nothing's good.
link |
It's just like, hmm.
link |
And then all of a sudden, bam, there's the idea.
link |
And then all of a sudden, I can't stop.
link |
And then, you know, it was a couple hours later
link |
and I'm like, whoa.
link |
And then the next night I'm on stage
link |
and I'm like, how about that?
link |
Boom, it gets this big laugh.
link |
I'm like, holy shit.
link |
And I know that came out of the discipline
link |
to sit down and call the muse.
link |
I mean, the cool thing is the ideas have found you to like,
link |
oh, I'm going to use this dude.
link |
Like, he seems to have a podcast that's popular.
link |
I'm going to breathe inside his brain
link |
and spread it to others.
link |
It's the same as...
link |
You know, I'm going to use this guy
link |
who's like desperately seeking some sort of a product
link |
to bring to market.
link |
Some guy who wants to invent things,
link |
just thinking about inventing things all the time.
link |
Like these ideas, the wheeze of their way into your head.
link |
And it seems to me also that you'll have
link |
the frequency that your mind operates under
link |
has to be correct.
link |
Because one of the things about creativity seems to be
link |
if you think about yourself a lot,
link |
if you're really into yourself or your image
link |
or you're selfish, those ideas are not...
link |
They don't find you.
link |
It stifles the creative...
link |
Yeah, it stifles the opportunity
link |
that the idea has for defining.
link |
Which is one of the reasons why joke thieves,
link |
people that steal jokes are terrible writers.
link |
There's never really good writers who are also joke thieves.
link |
It's just joke thieves.
link |
And then when they have to write on their own,
link |
if they get exposed, they become terrible comedians.
link |
They're a shadow of what they were
link |
when they were stealing other people's ideas.
link |
Because the thing that would make you steal a person's idea
link |
The wanting to claim it for yourself,
link |
the wanting to be the man or the woman.
link |
You want to be the person who gets out there that says it
link |
and everybody's going to love me for it.
link |
Like, you can't think like that and be creative.
link |
It requires a humility
link |
and it requires a detachment from self in order to create.
link |
Like, when I'm writing, I'm blank.
link |
I'm like, I'm just staring.
link |
I'm like, I'm just...
link |
The part of my mind that's active is not like me.
link |
It's like this weird core function part
link |
where I'm not aware of my personality.
link |
I'm not aware of any of that.
link |
I'm just trying to put it together in a way that I know works.
link |
And just being there, being present as the press field is just...
link |
I'm a big believer just sitting there.
link |
You've been staring at a blank page, just putting in the time.
link |
Yeah, and sometimes it's not that way.
link |
Sometimes it's an inspiration.
link |
Like, sometimes I'll be sitting there at dinner
link |
and I'll be like, I got an idea.
link |
And my wife's really cool about that.
link |
I'm like, I have an idea and I have to just run out of the room real quick
link |
and I write it down on my phone and then I can come back.
link |
Because those are like little gifts
link |
that you get sometimes from the universe out of nowhere.
link |
And some people rely only on those gifts.
link |
And I've talked to comics about it like,
link |
I can't come up with my best ideas when I don't write.
link |
And I'm like, no, I do too.
link |
I come up with great ideas when I don't write, but I also write.
link |
Like, you can do both of those things.
link |
They're not mutually exclusive.
link |
You mentioned fuck you money.
link |
I feel like I have fuck you money now.
link |
A year ago, I was at zero, I have fuck you money now
link |
because probably my standards, I don't need much in this world.
link |
But because also, probably because of you,
link |
but it's 300 to 400,000 people, isn't every episode I do.
link |
And that result is weird.
link |
That's a successful television show on cable.
link |
Yeah, it's hilarious.
link |
But at this point, that also resulted in a few money,
link |
in a sense that I don't need anything else in this world.
link |
But so by way of asking, I've looked up,
link |
if you've inspired me for a long time,
link |
do you have advice?
link |
You've done this on the podcast side of life.
link |
Do you have advice for somebody like me
link |
and somebody like me going on this journey?
link |
Eric Weinstein is going on this journey.
link |
Is there advice, both small and big,
link |
that you have for somebody like me?
link |
The advice is to keep doing what feels right to you
link |
and do what you're doing.
link |
Obviously, it's resonating with people
link |
if you're getting that big of an audience.
link |
And I've listened to your podcast.
link |
You're very good at it.
link |
So just keep doing it the way you're doing it.
link |
Don't let anybody else get involved.
link |
What about you've connected,
link |
I think you met Jamie at the comedy store.
link |
I met him at the ice house.
link |
Well, I think I met him at the comedy store,
link |
but then we talked at the ice house.
link |
You'd have to ask him.
link |
Yeah, did you think deeply about,
link |
because you basically have nobody on your team.
link |
And so it almost feels like a marriage.
link |
Were you selective about somebody to bring into your little circle?
link |
Well, Jamie's exceptional.
link |
He is. He's a special.
link |
I mean, he might have grown.
link |
I don't remember how he was in the early days.
link |
Maybe you could say, but he was definitely better at it,
link |
but he right away, he's exceptional.
link |
He's got very little ego.
link |
He's not a guy who needs a lot of attention.
link |
He's not a guy who overestimates anything,
link |
like in terms of negative or positive.
link |
Like his interpretation of whether it's good things
link |
that happen to the show or bad things that happen to the show,
link |
he just takes it all like flat.
link |
He's just cool as fuck.
link |
And he's so smart.
link |
And he's so good as an audio engineer and as a podcast producer.
link |
But he's basically one of the only people on this whole team.
link |
So how do you find, I mean, when you let people in?
link |
I mean, I'm sure other people want to get involved.
link |
Like, why don't you have a cohost?
link |
Like you basically kind of, well.
link |
Here's the problem with the cohost.
link |
Like when you and I are talking, when we're talking,
link |
I'm tuned in to you and I'm waiting to hear what you're saying
link |
and I'm listening and I'm interpreting it.
link |
And then I'm calculating whether or not I have anything to say,
link |
whether it'll let you keep talking,
link |
whether I maybe have a question that lets you expand further
link |
or whether I have a disagreement or like there's a dance that's going on.
link |
Now, when there's another person there chiming in too, it fucks the dance up.
link |
It's like dancing.
link |
Like, have you doing a dance with someone, you know,
link |
like if you're slow dancing with someone and then a third person's there,
link |
stepping on their feet.
link |
Sometimes it's fun.
link |
Sometimes having a third person is fun.
link |
Sometimes it's fun.
link |
Debate kind of structured.
link |
Yeah, debate structures.
link |
But even then it gets difficult because people talk over each other.
link |
And also, I find that without headphones,
link |
it's way easier to talk over each other.
link |
You make mistakes.
link |
You don't hear it the same way.
link |
When you have headphones, I hear what you hear.
link |
It's all one sound and the audience hears exactly or rather,
link |
I hear exactly what the audience hears.
link |
Whether it's over here, my voice is louder than yours
link |
because you're over there and if I don't have headphones on,
link |
it's not all together.
link |
At that point, one of the interesting things about your show
link |
is you almost never have done and you generally don't do remote calls,
link |
but you don't go to another person's location.
link |
You have only done a few for small handful.
link |
And just like with Sapolsky, he should do this.
link |
But I actually, we went back and forth on email.
link |
I told him he needs to get his ass back in the studio.
link |
He's working on a book.
link |
I was a fan of his a long time ago because I became obsessed with Toxoplasmosis.
link |
And I've reached out to him a long time ago before he was willing to do it.
link |
But then I caught him in downtown LA.
link |
He was there for something else and I just greedily snatched up an hour of his time.
link |
Well, he doesn't get, I think, some of those folks don't get
link |
how much magic can happen in this podcast studio.
link |
Like bigger than anything they've ever done in terms of their work.
link |
I'm not talking about reach, but in terms of the discovery of new ideas,
link |
there's something magical about conversation.
link |
Like that, like somebody as brilliant as him,
link |
if he gives himself over to the conversation for multiple hours at a time,
link |
that's another place where you've been an inspiration.
link |
Where I like, you know, I'm getting more and more confidence of telling people
link |
like in Elon Musk that like, you know, a lot of CEOs are like,
link |
well, he has 30 minutes on his schedule.
link |
I'm like, no, three hours.
link |
And then they're like, so some say, no, and then they come back.
link |
Those people have started coming back to like, okay, we're starting to get it.
link |
They start to get it and you're a rare beacon of hope in that sense
link |
that there is some value in long form.
link |
They think that nobody wants to listen for 30, for more than 30 minutes.
link |
They think like I have nothing to say.
link |
But the reality is if you just give yourself over to like the three hours,
link |
just let it go, three hours, four hours, whatever it is,
link |
there's so much to discover about what you didn't even know you think.
link |
Yeah, you have to be confident that you could do it.
link |
And in the beginning, I just did it because that's what I wanted to do
link |
and no one was listening.
link |
So I've always been a curious person.
link |
So I've always been interested in listening to how people think about things
link |
and talking to people about their mindset and just expanding on my own ideas,
link |
just talking shit.
link |
And so we would have these podcasts and they would go on forever.
link |
And my friend Ari, I never let him die and never let this die down.
link |
Never let him forget this.
link |
He was always like, you have to edit your podcast.
link |
I'm telling you right now, you're fucking up.
link |
He's like, because people are not going to listen to it.
link |
I go, they don't have to.
link |
I go, you listen to part of it.
link |
He goes, just do it.
link |
I'm telling you, trust me, cut it down to like 45 minutes.
link |
It's all you need.
link |
And I'm like, no, no, I don't think you're right.
link |
I like listening to long form things.
link |
No one has that kind of time.
link |
I go, okay, I'm going to do it.
link |
I'm just going to keep doing it this way.
link |
So stick to your gut.
link |
Listen to his or like two and a half hours long now.
link |
But you wouldn't like say, I mentioned to you this before.
link |
This is going to happen.
link |
It's actually made a lot of progress towards it.
link |
I'm going to talk to Putin, but you wouldn't travel to Putin.
link |
If you want to talk to you.
link |
Putin is a dangerous character.
link |
You're talking to, you've seen the thing with Jerry Kraft,
link |
where he stole his Superbowl ring.
link |
Yeah, that was, I think that was a little bit of misunderstanding.
link |
I think it's a little bit, he just decided he's going to steal
link |
that Superbowl ring.
link |
I think it was a kind of, he thought, can I see your ring?
link |
He shows him his ring and then he puts it on and says,
link |
I can murder somebody with this ring.
link |
So he, and then he walks off with it.
link |
It's possible he did it as a, he's a big believer in displays
link |
So like, it's possible he did that.
link |
But I think he sees himself as like a tool with which
link |
to demonstrate that Russia still belongs on the stage
link |
of the big players.
link |
And so he, a lot of actions are selected through that lens.
link |
But in terms of a human being outside of any of the evils
link |
that he may or may not have done, he is a really thoughtful,
link |
intelligent, fun human being like the wit and the depth
link |
from the JRE perspective is really interesting.
link |
I'm like his manager now selling the, he's a judo guy.
link |
He's really good at judo.
link |
I have seen him practice judo.
link |
He's a legit black belt.
link |
And not only that, he loves it, not just skill wise, but to talk
link |
about it, to reason about it, to think about it, to MMA as well.
link |
So, you know, it'd be, it'd be a good conversation.
link |
But you wouldn't travel to him.
link |
Well, that's, hold to your principle.
link |
So that's the core of the advice.
link |
Just hold to whatever.
link |
I would rather, here's the thing, there's not a person that
link |
I have to have on the show.
link |
And I would, I'm happy to talk to anybody.
link |
I'm just as happy to talk to you as I am to talk to Trump as
link |
I am to probably more happy to talk to you as I am to talk to
link |
Mike Tyson as I am to talk to Joey Diaz.
link |
I like talking to people.
link |
I enjoy doing podcasts.
link |
I enjoy talking to a variety of people and I schedule them based
link |
on, I want to like, I try not to get too many right wing people
link |
in a row or too many progressive people in a row.
link |
I don't want to get repetitive to try not to get too many fighters
link |
I try to balance it out.
link |
Not too many comedians.
link |
Comedians are the one, one group where I can have three, four
link |
in a row, five in a row, because that's my tribe.
link |
You know, those are my people.
link |
We can talk about anything.
link |
It's a weird dance, you know, the conversations that you're
link |
doing on a podcast are, they're a strange dance.
link |
And you want to, you know, you want to not step on your own
link |
feet and you want to make sure that you do it in a way, do
link |
the podcast in a way that's entertaining for people.
link |
And it's, it's conversations are learning how to talk to
link |
people. It's a weird skill. It's a weird skill that took a long
link |
time for me to get good at.
link |
And I didn't know it was a skill until I started doing it.
link |
And then I just thought you're just talking.
link |
Like, I know how to talk.
link |
We just talk to people.
link |
And then along the way, I realized like, oh, and then when
link |
you talk to people that are bad at it, you realize that it's
link |
Like particularly one of the things about my people, about
link |
comedians is a lot of them tend to want to talk, but don't
link |
So they're, they're waiting for you to stop talking so they
link |
can talk, but they're not necessarily thinking about what
link |
you're saying, you know, and they're just, just waiting
link |
for their opportunity or they talk over you or they, and I
link |
try real hard not to do that.
link |
And sometimes I fail, but my, when I'm at my best, I'm, I'm
link |
Ultimately, the skill conversation is just really
link |
listening, like really and listening and thinking, listening
link |
and thinking and being genuinely curious and, and really
link |
having, you know, a take on what they're saying and, and, and
link |
a, and a, maybe a follow up question or maybe, you know,
link |
just got to, it's got to be real.
link |
It's got to be authentic.
link |
And when it is authentic and it's real, it resonates with
link |
people, like they're listening and they go, oh, like I'm locked
link |
in with the way you're thinking, like you two guys are in a
link |
conversation and I'm locked in, you know, when she talks and
link |
you listen, I'm listening to, you know, when he says something
link |
to her or when she says something to, to him, like there's
link |
a thing that happens during conversations where you're there,
link |
like you're listening to a, and it's with me, when I listen
link |
to a good podcast, I feel like I'm in the room.
link |
I feel like I'm in the room and I'm like, like I'm, I'm like
link |
the friend that got to sit down and listen, like, oh, yeah,
link |
it's a great conversation.
link |
You know, I love conversations.
link |
So I love listening to them and I love putting them together
link |
and the fact that this podcast has gotten so fucking big.
link |
It's stunning to me.
link |
No, I'd never anticipated it.
link |
Never thought for a second that that stupid thing that I used
link |
to do in my couch, in my, my office was the biggest thing
link |
I've ever done in my life by far.
link |
Like people used to make fun of it.
link |
Like there's a comedy store documentary that's coming out.
link |
And one of the parts of the documentary is my friend,
link |
Tom Segura, when he first started doing my podcast, he would,
link |
he would be leaving and he would talk to Red Band.
link |
He's like, what the fuck is he doing?
link |
Like, why is he doing this?
link |
Like, who's listening?
link |
He's like, oh, some people like it.
link |
And he's like fucking nonsense, wasted time.
link |
And like in the, the documentary shows like 2,000 views,
link |
like one of the early Ustream episodes.
link |
And they don't just like it really.
link |
They, uh, they form a friendship with you.
link |
It's like, uh, even me when people come up to me, like the love
link |
in their eyes is kind of beautiful.
link |
It's weird, right?
link |
It's like, uh, you're part of their life.
link |
It's, it's also heartbreaking cause you realize you'll never
link |
really get to know them back.
link |
Like cause they, they clearly are friends with you.
link |
And it's sad to see a person who's clearly brilliant and
link |
interesting and is friends with you, but you don't get a
link |
chance to return that love.
link |
And, uh, I mean, my kids, it took them a while to figure
link |
out what's going on, but, uh, people would come up to me and, uh,
link |
you know, they would say something like, Hey man, I fucking
link |
My daughter was like six.
link |
She'd be like, do you know him?
link |
I'm like, no, I don't know him.
link |
She's like, how does he know you?
link |
It's very weird conversation.
link |
I used to have with young kids when I'd explain, I'd do this
link |
thing called the podcast and millions of people listen.
link |
So now one of my daughters is 12 and one of her friends is
link |
13 and he's a boy and he goes to school with her and he's
link |
And so she's weirded out and she says to him, I don't even
link |
think you like me.
link |
I think you're just into my dad, you fucking weirdo.
link |
She's going to have that conversation in a few stages
link |
in her life, like that hard conversation with a boyfriend.
link |
That was the thing about men too.
link |
This podcast is, my podcast is uniquely masculine.
link |
I'm a man and I'm not, I'm also a man that doesn't have to go
link |
through some sort of a corporate filter.
link |
I'm not going through executive producers who tell me don't,
link |
don't have this guest on, don't talk about that.
link |
You know, we looked at focus groups and they don't, they
link |
don't seem to like when you do this.
link |
Like there's none of that.
link |
I just, and I, I just do it.
link |
So if that's, oh, so I have a whole podcast where I just talk
link |
about cars and people like, I don't want to hear you talk
link |
You found what you like.
link |
There's 1500 other ones.
link |
Go listen to the other episodes where I don't talk about cars.
link |
You don't, you don't have to listen.
link |
And it's not like your brand, you just are who you are.
link |
And that's what you do.
link |
But it's like, it's authentically what I'm interested in.
link |
All the podcasts, whether I'm talking to David Fraver about
link |
his experience with UFOs, whether I'm talking to David Sinclair
link |
about life extension, whether I'm talking to you about
link |
artificial intelligence or what.
link |
It's because I want to talk to these people.
link |
And that, that resonates.
link |
I, I like when people are into shit.
link |
You know, I've talked about this before, like things that I
link |
have no interest in making furniture, but I like this PBS
link |
show where this guy makes furniture by hand.
link |
I love watching it because he's so into it.
link |
He's extending this and polishing that.
link |
I'm not going to do that.
link |
I don't give a fuck about furniture.
link |
Furniture for me is function, like this desk function.
link |
It works, but I love when people are into it, you know, and I'm
link |
happy that someone can make it and they do a great job.
link |
But I'm not, I'm not interested in the, the task is or the, even
link |
the finished product as much as I'm interested in someone's
link |
passion for something.
link |
The passion that they've put into this that shines through.
link |
I sometimes ask this just for to, uh, what is it to challenge,
link |
to make people roll their eyes, to make legitimate scientists
link |
roll their eyes, ask, uh, uh, what is the meaning of life?
link |
According to Joe Rogan, do you not think there is a meaning?
link |
I think there's many, many meanings of life.
link |
I think there's a way to navigate life that's enjoyable.
link |
I think it requires many things.
link |
It requires, first of all, it requires love.
link |
You have to have loved ones, you have to have family, you have
link |
to have friends, you have to have people that care about you
link |
and you have to care about them.
link |
I think that is primary.
link |
Then it also requires interests.
link |
There has to be things that stimulate you.
link |
Now it could be just a subsistence lifestyle.
link |
There's many people that believe and practice this, uh, lifestyle
link |
of just living off the land and hunting and fishing and living
link |
in the woods and they seem incredibly happy.
link |
And there's, there's something to be said for that.
link |
That is an interest, right?
link |
There's something and there's a, there's a direct connection
link |
between their actions and their sustenance.
link |
They, they get their food that way.
link |
They're connected to nature and it's very satisfying for them.
link |
If you don't have that, uh, I think you need something
link |
that is interesting to you, something that's you're passionate
link |
about and there's far too many people that get sucked into living
link |
a life where you're just doing a job.
link |
You're just showing up and putting in your time and then going
link |
home, but you don't have a passion for what you're doing.
link |
And I think that is, that's the recipe for a boring and very
link |
unfulfilling life.
link |
You mentioned love if you could backtrack what, uh, we talked
link |
about the demons and the violence in there somewhere.
link |
What's the role of love in this, in your own life?
link |
It's very important, man, and it, that's one of the reasons
link |
why I'm so, uh, I'm so interested in helping people.
link |
I'm very interested in people feeling good.
link |
I like them to feel good.
link |
I want to help them.
link |
I like, I like doing things that make them feel like, oh, you
link |
Like, yeah, I care about you.
link |
Like I want people to feel good.
link |
I want my family to feel good.
link |
I want my friends to feel good.
link |
I want guests to feel good about the podcast experience.
link |
You know, I, I am, uh, I'm a big believer in as much as I
link |
can to spread positive energy and joy and happiness and, and
link |
relay all the good advice that I've ever gotten all the things
link |
that I've learned.
link |
And if they can benefit people, then I find that those things
link |
benefit people that actually improve the quality of their
link |
life or improve their success or improve their relationships
link |
or I'm very happy to do that.
link |
That means a lot to me.
link |
The way we interact with each other is so important.
link |
It's one of the reasons why like someone gets canceled or you
link |
get publicly shamed.
link |
It's so devastating because there's all these people that
link |
negative, all this negative energy coming your way and you
link |
feel it as much as you like to pretend that you, you're immune
link |
to that kind of stuff.
link |
And some people do like to pretend that you feel it.
link |
There's a, there's a tangible force when people are upset at
link |
you and that's the same with loved ones or family or anytime
link |
someone's upset at you, whether it's a giant group of people or
link |
there's a small amount of people.
link |
That has an impact on you and your psyche and your physical
link |
So the more you can spread love and the more love comes back
link |
to you, you also create this butterfly effect, right?
link |
Because where other people start recognizing like, oh, you
link |
know when he is nice to me, I feel better and then I'm going
link |
to be nicer to people.
link |
And when I'm nicer to people, they feel better and I feel
link |
better and it spreads outward.
link |
And that's one thing that I've done through this podcast, I
link |
think, is I've imparted my personal philosophy in kindness
link |
and generosity to other people.
link |
Yeah, I mean, to correct you, you didn't do it.
link |
The ideas that are breeding themselves through your brain
link |
Yes, the ideas that are alive in the air have made their way
link |
Love is a more efficient mechanism of spreading ideas they
link |
So as far as like the meaning of life, that's a bit, without
link |
that, you have nothing.
link |
You know, one of the biggest failures in life is to be
link |
extremely successful financially, but everybody hates
link |
Everybody hates you and you're just miserable and alone and
link |
angry and depressed and sad.
link |
You know, when you hear about rich, famous people that
link |
commit suicide, like, wow, you missed the mark.
link |
You got some parts right, but you put too many eggs in one
link |
You put too many eggs in the financial basket or the
link |
success basket or the accomplishment basket and not
link |
enough in the friendship and love basket.
link |
And there's a balance to that.
link |
And when I talked about the violence and all that stuff,
link |
like, that to me is me understanding, recognizing that
link |
is me trying to achieve that balance.
link |
It's to, like, go kill those demons so that this boat is
link |
level, you know, because if it's not, then the boat is
link |
like this and then everything's all fucked up and
link |
every time we hit a wave, things fall apart.
link |
Balance that boat out.
link |
Like, know who you are.
link |
Some people don't have that problem at all.
link |
Some people, they could just go for walks and they're
link |
cool as a cucumber.
link |
You know, I need kettlebells.
link |
I need a heavy bag.
link |
I need the echo bike, you know, the aerosol bike.
link |
I need some hardcore shit.
link |
And if I don't get that, I don't feel good.
link |
So I figured that out, too.
link |
And that makes me a nicer person.
link |
And that makes my interactions nicer.
link |
It changes the quality of my friendships and my relationships
link |
I think we mentioned Neuralink.
link |
I can certainly guarantee that this is one of the memories
link |
I'll be replaying 20, 30 years from now once we get
link |
the feature ready.
link |
Joe, it's a huge honor to talk to you.
link |
It's an honor to talk to you, too, man.
link |
I'm glad you came down here for this.
link |
The first week of me doing this here and it's very cool
link |
to have you always.
link |
I hope you make Texas cool again and do your podcast
link |
another 10, 11, whatever, however many years you're still
link |
Thank you, brother.
link |
Appreciate you, man.
link |
Thanks for listening to this conversation with Joe Rogan.
link |
And thank you to our sponsors Neuro, Asleep, and Dollar Shave
link |
Check them out in the description to get a discount and to
link |
support this podcast.
link |
If you enjoy this thing, subscribe on YouTube.
link |
Review it with five stars on a podcast, follow on Spotify,
link |
support on Patreon, or connect with me on Twitter,
link |
And now let me leave you with some words of wisdom from Joe
link |
The universe rewards, calculative risk, and passion.
link |
Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.