back to indexDan Gable: Olympic Wrestling, Mental Toughness & the Making of Champions | Lex Fridman Podcast #152
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The following is a conversation with Dan Gable from two years ago.
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I did not previously publish this conversation as part of this podcast,
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but as a separate thing. And as a result, it did not receive many listens.
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Let me be honest and say that while I usually don't care about how many
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listens or views something gets, in this one case,
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I feel like I failed one of my heroes.
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I feel I didn't properly introduce a truly special human being to an audience
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that might find him as inspiring as I did.
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Dan Gable is one of the greatest Olympic athletes of all time.
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Bigger than records and medals, to many like myself,
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he's a symbol of guts, spirit, mental toughness and relentless hard work.
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As a wrestler, he was undefeated in high school, undefeated in college
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until his very last match. And having lost that match,
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he found another level and became a world champion and an Olympic champion.
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And most importantly, he did so perfectly dominating his opponents.
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He did not surrender a single point at the 1972 Olympic Games.
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As a coach, he led the Iowa Hawkeyes to 15 national titles
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and 25 consecutive Big Ten championships.
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He coached 152 All Americans, 45 national champions,
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106 Big Ten champions, and 12 Olympians, including eight medalists.
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He's the author of several books, including A Wrestling Life One and Two
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and Coaching Wrestling Successfully.
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Quick mention of our sponsors.
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So the choice is AI, Privacy, Grammar or Safety.
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And if you wish, click the sponsor links below to get a discount
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and to support this podcast.
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As a side note, let me say that I spent a few days in Iowa
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and got to attend a wrestling duel meet in the historic Carver Hawkeye Arena.
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Part of me wanted to stay in Iowa forever to drill takedowns,
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to start a family, to live life simply.
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Wrestling is one of the pure sports, both beautiful and brutal.
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We're both mental toughness and technical mastery
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of the highest form, are rewarded with victory
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and everything else is punished with defeat.
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And every such loss weighs heavy on the minds of anyone who has ever stepped
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on the wrestling mat, including myself.
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The same is true for one of the greatest wrestlers in history of the sport,
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the man who graciously welcomed me into his home for this conversation,
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the legend, Dan Gable.
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If you enjoy this thing, subscribe on YouTube, review it on Apple Podcast,
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follow on Spotify, support on Patreon, or connect with me on Twitter,
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And now here's my conversation with Dan Gable.
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You're persistent.
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I love that because you've been trying to get me on this podcast for a long time.
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And until I saw you on another podcast and you said you were Russian,
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did I call you back?
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Because Russia, to me, is leading the world in wrestling almost every year.
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What's the difference between American wrestling and Russian wrestling?
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You showed me this painting.
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Well, it's MIT. It's science.
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And they really study the sport.
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They're really good technically.
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They're really, really good in strategy.
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They don't really push like the real toughness.
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They don't push like conditioning.
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And so Americans, we need what they have.
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Russians need what we have.
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And when you get two together and for
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and for me, why I could beat the Russians is because
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I went their way a little bit, but I kept my toughness.
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You're you're known for your toughness.
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Yeah, but I wasn't known for my art.
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I wasn't known for my science.
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So when did you become a bit of an artist?
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The Larry Owens loss.
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Most people thought I was already an artist just because I won 181 straight
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in the dominance in seven years and not just winning, but, you know, kind of
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And from from that point of view, yeah, I might have been pretty good, but I had a
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long ways to go yet and I didn't really realize that or I should have.
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I should say I didn't really know how to get it out of me until I had a loss.
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And then I realized I got to buckle down, learn some of that science, become more
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How do you become an artist?
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So that the Russian way has this drilling technique, thousands of reps.
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How do you how do you think you work on the science, the art part?
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You got to study the best in the world.
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I think Dave Schultz was our guy in America that probably showed us that being
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artistic, you needed that.
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And he studied it.
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He went over there as a high schooler and Russell in some major tournaments over
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there and he saw their ways.
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He used that Russian science and then he was already an American and he saw what
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how I trained athletes, he saw what I did in the Olympics, saw what other people,
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how we held up and he applied that as well.
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But I'd have to say he was more of the artistic type.
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He was more of a Russian than an American when it came to wrestling.
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You've coached 45 national champions, 106 big 10 champions and eight Olympic
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medalists, which is incredible.
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What is a common thread between them and what are maybe some of the fundamental differences?
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I think the common thread is that
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they all had one of those two avenues that we talked already.
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And because we intertwined them.
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So in a Russian wrestling room, they got the same people.
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Most of the time in an American wrestling room, we had the same people.
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But when I was out recruiting, at first I recruited just attitude.
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But I needed more than that.
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I needed some genetics in that wrestling room to actually that hard work people,
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you know, they could look and see, wow, that execution, that's unbelievable.
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But yet I can beat that guy after the first minute.
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So you think the art, the technique is genetics, you're born with it.
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You think it's not something.
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I think your pop and your, you know, your ability to move timing and timing
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and your quickness and your strength.
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You know, the Russians, they usually picked out the people that can go into that sport.
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That was the old fashioned sports school.
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But it's mostly like when you see, when you walk into a Russian wrestling room,
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you see him hitting skills, techniques.
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You know, you don't see him banging against each other that much.
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But then when practice is over, you might not see a bunch of sprints.
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You might see him walk over to the ropes and they drop down from the ceiling
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and they'll jump up and climb a rope, boom, boom, boom.
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And then they come down and then they don't jump right back on.
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They have three or four other guys go and then they jump back on.
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Whereas I probably made my guys climb them, get right back down, climb them right back again.
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But I also realized that I had to have a mix of that.
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What was the role?
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What was your role?
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I mean, those guys looked up at Dan Gable and what was the role in helping these
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athletes become their best, these national champions?
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First of all, prove that you were.
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Knew what you were doing in terms of technique or in terms of everything, everything.
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They just you had to be the first guy there and the last guy to leave.
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And you had to be the most dedicated guy, even though they were the ones just trying
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to win the championships, you had to prove that you were going to work just as
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hard as they were as a coach.
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And what does that look like?
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So you can see it when you know it when you see it?
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Well, you're there ahead of them and you're there after they leave.
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You know, it's that simple.
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I'm picking up after them and you're analyzing them.
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You all work them.
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You all work them and you all think them.
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And so, you know, use that type of strategy and over time when you prove it works
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because some of my kids that were the best kids in the world.
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Really shouldn't have been a wrestler.
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I mean, they weren't very coordinated.
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Yeah, but they worked so hard to develop themselves.
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What was your role in that process?
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I mean, that means pushing kids to their limit.
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If you're not you can't push kids to their limit.
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And even when you push them to their limit, that's not their limit because their limits
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above and beyond that.
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I mean, yeah, coaches sometimes accidentally don't they lose kids.
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Yeah, because of the heat, because of hard work and all that.
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And you got to you got to know where to when to back off.
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You got to read your athletes.
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And by that, I mean, you got to know them pretty well.
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Every once in a while, you make a little bit of a mistake.
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But if you don't react right on that mistake before it gets too far, then it's going to be a casualty.
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And I don't mean somebody dying necessarily, but maybe something that could turn them off
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or maybe something that can run them away or maybe something that, wow, that was close.
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It maybe shouldn't have pushed them that far.
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So you really have to be very educated.
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And it's not just what you know.
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It's what you know about them.
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And I'm not talking about the team.
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I'm talking about each guy.
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Individuals. Yeah.
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Each person on the team.
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And you you know it.
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How you see it in their eyes because you're the first one there and you're the last one to leave.
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And and you set in the environment with them.
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You're there for in the morning for practice.
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Sometimes they're there in the afternoon for two or three hours after practice.
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You might have a a hot room or you might have a sauna or a steam or a whirlpool.
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And you get in there with them and you listen.
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You know, you're not just feeding out information.
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You do that, but you're taking in a lot of that too.
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And I'm telling you, when you get in an atmosphere that they're relaxed and they feel comfortable.
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It's like a massage.
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And that's after practice in one of those areas that people are around you.
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I mean, you got a lot to learn as a coach.
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And when you get in that atmosphere, when all of a sudden you feel like very comfortable,
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words start flowing.
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And when those words flow,
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you take them in as a coach and there's something probably going to be said
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that you can do and act upon that's going to help certain situations.
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I've saved a couple of kids lives for sure that were on the brink.
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You know, sometimes performance is at such a high level in a high level atmosphere
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that life and death is actually involved.
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And I don't mean pushing a kid to where he just dies.
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But I mean, he might feel himself as a failure and he might go home and take his own life.
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Yeah, I mean, but that's part of it.
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You're putting so much heart, so much blood and heart and sweat and everything.
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Your whole meaning of life becomes winning.
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So and sometimes it's so hard to lose within that context.
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So if in your, I think the first wrestling life you wrote about Chad Zapato,
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who lost, I mean, incredible wrestler, but lost in three finals in the nationals
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and has this tattoo of a hawk clawing out the human heart.
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Yeah. So what lessons is there any lessons from the incredible wrestling he's done,
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but also the incredible suffering that he went through on himself?
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Yeah, again, you like that word suffering, which is OK.
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OK, no, no, no, no, no, no, keep it.
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Yeah, because it fits right in where I want.
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Yeah, I have to turn that suffering around to where he makes him feels good about himself
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or better, doesn't have to feel perfect.
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Yeah, because he did lose.
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Yeah, you know, and so, but you have to actually get him to realize that.
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Yeah, he's still unique compared to the walk of the earth.
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He was unbelievably unique right at the top, just a little bit short of.
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But because it was, you know, he felt the suffering, you now have to go about
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and change that and put it into goodwill some way.
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And because he's you really have a lot of goodwill, you can do a lot of goodwill.
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And so and it's not easy.
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It took him probably years, years of tattooing, years of covering the tattoos.
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And, you know, he told me move to California, I go, why are you moving to California?
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Because he was here for a couple of years after his wrestling was done,
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because he had a good job around here and he's I thought he was doing a good job.
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But he just he said, I had to escape.
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You know, same as the company tattoo.
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I had a wrestling terminology.
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I have to get I hate to say this.
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I hate to say this.
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I go, where are you going?
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He said, I'm going to go to California.
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And I go, is there any reason why you go into California?
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He says, that's where everybody goes to hide.
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But I said, I think you're wrong there.
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But, you know, I think what will determine your life will be what you do for now on.
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You know, and if you can find and he's actually turned it around.
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I mean, he's actually turned around.
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You have to discover that yourself.
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Exactly. And he went someplace that he thought he could fit into.
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And I think he did.
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And I think he's got a good job and he's helping people and
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he covered that tattoo with feathers, another tattoo.
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Well, in the end, it's a beautiful story.
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Yeah, it is. It really is.
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Suffering and overcoming.
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Yeah. And he's not done yet.
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He's not done yet.
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No, he's not done.
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He's he's got a lot more to do.
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So you mentioned Roger Bannister, again, I think in your first book.
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Somebody you looked up to, that's the man who broke the four minute mile, right?
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When everybody said it was impossible, everyone thought it was impossible.
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Oh, they thought you would die.
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He would die. It's not human.
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It's not humanly possible.
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Well, you've done your homework.
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For what? The book? Or what?
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Oh, I don't know. For me, you've done your homework.
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Yeah, I know. But yeah, sitting here by Putin to do research.
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Yeah. So what lesson do you take from that story for yourself?
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The impossible, trying to accomplish the impossible?
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Well, the impossible is possible.
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It's just that simple. Time changes things.
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I mean, I mean, if you looked at what where the mile time is right now,
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compared to that four minute mile, which when it was broke by a couple
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of tenths or three or four tenths, it's now broke by another 20 seconds.
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By 700 people, yeah.
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Yeah. I mean, by tons of people.
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And it's pretty much the common knowledge that you got to run a four minute
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mile if you're going to go somewhere now or below.
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If you're going to win events at major level, you got to be able to do that.
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And so you can take that and you can look at what
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in time history has as its record performance.
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And you can realize that that record performance is going to change.
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And they don't take into all the factors of knowledge.
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They don't take into all the factors of better shoes.
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They don't take in all the factors of better understanding of nutrition.
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I mean, it's like me as an athlete.
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I went to practice every day in high school for at least my sophomore and my
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junior and part of my senior year.
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And all of a sudden a new rule came up.
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I said, the rule said before that said,
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at least most of the coaches, we don't want you drinking water at practice.
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Because you got to toughen you up.
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That's a weakness water.
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And so we would go through practice.
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I mean, and you're sweating and then you're sweating so much that you're almost out of sweat.
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And so you're mostly at the end of practice.
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You're not even wrestling.
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You're you're sitting against the wall because you're tired.
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So then all of a sudden they say, OK, go ahead and drink water during practice.
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Drink greater aid during practice.
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And all of a sudden at the end of practice, we're still out there competing.
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And so I look at my career for two and a half years where I end my junior high too.
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So I got another three years
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where I didn't really wasn't able to push as good as I could because I just was probably under.
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So what so but at the individual level in terms of the impossible,
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when did you first believe the thing that maybe probably people would laugh at you?
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About that you would be an Olympic champion.
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Well, I always visualized me being the best.
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You believed it in the very forever, forever.
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Yeah, I was because I was I don't know if you call it a dreamer or somebody that
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I was just involved with competitive sports at the YMCA from from age five.
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Did you tell people that dream that you're going to be Olympic champion one day?
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You can be the best in the world.
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I think they knew.
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And the only reason why they knew because there was something a little different about this guy.
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He was he's not going to stop.
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Well, he was out in the yard and he was swinging baseball bats.
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You know, at six, at seven and eight and nine and ten.
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And he was swinging baseball bats.
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So much right handed and so much left hand with nobody even there throwing the ball.
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That all of a sudden when they walk by,
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they all of a sudden the grass was down to dirt on both sides.
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So it's like they saw me out in the yard playing by myself sports or, you know,
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or you get the neighborhood kids and you play a lot.
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But if they weren't there, you know, if you walked in my front room,
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I was hiking a ball like I was the quarterback and I was running not and running through the through the furniture.
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You know, that type of stuff.
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So, you know, who saw this guy mostly was probably the parents.
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And the coaches at the YMCA level, the junior high level,
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they saw this guy come first and end up last.
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But I wasn't that great.
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I wasn't the fastest guy at that time and I wasn't the strongest guy.
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You know, actually, before I went to the Olympics, when they tested me,
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they tested everybody and I probably came back with one of the highest scores.
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But it was it was not like the highest person on this and this and that.
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I was all high across the board, straight across the board, high on every one of them.
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But there was always people that were higher than genetics, but then they would go down.
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Then they would test on something else and go back up.
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Mine stayed high all across the board.
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And so I, you know, I really didn't have too many flaws,
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but I didn't have any things that also said that you were going to be
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unscored upon at the Olympic Games.
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Right. So take me through that day, if you could.
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1972, when you were going for the 68 kilogram freestyle wrestling gold,
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you scored 57 points, if I'm correct.
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I had zero points scored on you, 57, zero.
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So maybe take me through almost the details.
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What was your routine?
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What was your process?
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What was going through your mind, your thoughts of that day?
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Yeah, first of all, it was quite a day because we wait in every day.
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And that, and that, yeah, we wait in two hours before the start of the competition.
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And so that doesn't mean that you wait in two hours for your rustle
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because you didn't know whether you're going to wrestle right away or later on.
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In fact, in that day, I don't think I wrestled until later on in the evening.
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So I had all day to recover, but I didn't really need it anyway
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because, you know, I wasn't really pulling a whole lot away.
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But just, it was just interesting.
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But what was in your mind?
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What were you thinking?
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You knew you're going to win the gold.
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Yeah, I knew I was going to win.
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But in reality, I didn't know it from a cocky point of view.
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I only knew it because for the last
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three and a half years, I had been going to practice.
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And I'd win in every practice.
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And I hardly ever lose a takedown.
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And if I lost this, if somebody scored on me,
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it was like when I went to bed, I couldn't sleep until I figured it out.
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Or if I didn't figure it out, I would fall asleep.
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And I would be, I would wake up with the answer of what I needed, why I got scored upon.
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So maybe now that you've won the gold, can you tell me in the practice room
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if somebody took you down, how do you take Dan Gable down in the practice room?
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Well, timing, very difficult.
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But yes, somebody could.
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Because they were going for one move.
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All I wanted was one move.
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Whereas, you know, if you can arrest somebody and arrest them,
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the whole practice or half of practice for at least 10, 15 minutes.
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And they were maybe going to score.
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If they could work it in their mind.
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But they knew that was going to be their victory.
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So in the practice room, maybe you can educate me.
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And that when you're going for the Olympic gold,
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you didn't want to allow any takedowns.
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So there's no such thing as working on some kind of weird position,
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a weak point or something.
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It's important to not let down on the takedown.
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It's kind of like what we were saying before.
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If something happened and somebody scored on me in a certain way,
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I would go over that situation, over that situation, over it again.
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And I would come up with an answer and then I would actually test it.
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Maybe I wouldn't go right back the next day
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because I didn't want the guy to, you know, do not have some.
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I didn't want him to think that I was thinking about it all night.
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I didn't tell him.
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But maybe three days later, when he wrestled again,
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I actually had it figured out because he wasn't able to.
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Or even if I was in on a takedown, an offensive move
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and I got stopped and didn't score, you know, I had to go back and filter that.
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But it wasn't something that usually I couldn't solve.
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I could usually solve it.
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Let's go back to the Olympic game.
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So I get up in the Olympic in the morning
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and I'm not sure when the Wayans were, but I think I was probably a pound over.
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You know, and that's about a half a kilo and one point one pounds is a kilo
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because we wouldn't kilograms.
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So what do you do with that pound?
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You are off or no, I just I just went over to the had a sauna there
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and I got in the sauna and the funny thing was the morning of the of the of the finals.
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There was there was another athlete in the sauna.
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And it was American or no, it was a European.
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I didn't I don't remember where she was from.
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Well, you know what?
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I kind of think it was a plot because it was a girl.
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And she didn't have her top on.
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And that was pretty common.
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And so, you know, it's kind of interesting you think back about it because
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there's some funny things that that go on behind the scenes in Olympic games,
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in world games, anytime when you have country against country.
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And so there's some crazy stuff that goes on.
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Yeah, did any of it affect you?
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Did you was there any?
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Well, I almost stayed too long in the sun.
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You lost a little bit over a pound, a little more than a pound.
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But but it didn't really bother me because I wasn't like I wasn't like cutting a lot of weight.
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So so your match against the Russian, the Azulayev.
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Yeah, Azulayev went on to be a two time world champion and silver medalist as well.
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I mean, this is an incredible wrestler.
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So what was going through your mind before stepping on the mat with that guy?
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You've beaten a bunch of wrestlers, haven't had a point scored on you.
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And you're stepping on the mat against the Russian who you said was really they picked
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the Soviets picked to beat you.
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And I know why they picked him because he had a great attitude.
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So he wasn't just the typical artist.
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He was a good artist.
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He hooked elbows like Sadjulayev and he's from that area of the world
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where they have some of those types of moves.
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But he was and he was a goer.
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But by cutting him down a weight, he lost some of that go.
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And I don't know if you got it.
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That's a process you got to go about scientifically.
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You know, and so, you know, if you don't do it as an American,
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it can really hurt your performance.
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If you don't do it as a Russian, it can hurt your performance.
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And they already didn't really do that a lot where usually wrestled the weight
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where it was more like your weight.
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And so by cutting him down, you know, maybe slowed his belief down a little bit.
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You saw it in him.
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The spirit was a little bit gone when you were facing.
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Yeah, but then he came back and he won, you know, rest of the matches and he was
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in the round robin and he was able to go to the finals.
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But he had lost another match actually against in the round robin against the
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So I think I had already gained enough of artistic being able to finish a match
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once I lost my match in college.
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For the last two years, I took on some of that artistic work.
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And I think that he was already hoping to win, but he was hoping to win by a long
link |
ways because he had to pin me or beat me by eight points to be able to win the gold.
link |
And, you know, that wasn't going to happen.
link |
I mean, the chances of pin is pretty good.
link |
Is it hard to pin Dan Gable versus take down?
link |
Like, have you taken risks where you could pay for them?
link |
I can't remember too many that I took that would actually put me in a danger position.
link |
I've taken risk, but the risks were so scientifically technically correct that I
link |
wouldn't land in that danger zone.
link |
It's like, if I'm going to lock up and throw you, I'm not going to throw you to
link |
my own back and roll you through.
link |
I'm going to turn in the air.
link |
So you were scientific about it.
link |
I, you know, it just I learned the hard way early on.
link |
There was moves from collegiate wrestling that you did that exposed your shoulders,
link |
which it cost me in some early freestyle matches against great wrestlers.
link |
But I would go back to my collegiate escaping type moves to where I hit a
link |
Grammy roll where you expose your shoulders and you lose two points every time.
link |
But you learn that that's not the system.
link |
But if you hadn't wrestled much, you would get exposed under maybe a desperate
link |
situation, you would hit it.
link |
So you won the gold.
link |
I think it would have, I think the question would be, how would it feel if you
link |
lost the gold for me because I already went through that once.
link |
Not at that highest level, but the national collegiate championship level
link |
my senior year, the Larry Owens loss, Larry Owens, yeah.
link |
And that didn't set well.
link |
Were you afraid of that happening again at the Olympic level?
link |
No, I really wasn't.
link |
But it was why I changed my philosophy of training and added to
link |
the scientific artist type.
link |
And if I had won that match, even though I wouldn't have felt good about it,
link |
even if I squeaked it out, I wasn't feeling good about that match.
link |
It would have affected me a little bit.
link |
But if I'd have won it, I would have got over it.
link |
I mean, I'm not over it now.
link |
I mean, I don't know why I was doing this kind of stuff right before my match.
link |
By that, I mean, this kind of stuff, talking interviews, yeah, journalists.
link |
Yeah. And I really wasn't a good talker.
link |
I mean, me and you are talking pretty good right now, except for I got a little cold.
link |
But but I don't think I could say two words hardly then.
link |
And they took takes.
link |
Wide world of sports says, hey, just we want you to be the introduction for our
link |
So just say, hey, I'm Dan Gable.
link |
Come watch me as I finish my career undefeated 182 and all.
link |
That's what they want me to say.
link |
Everybody assumed you'd be undefeated.
link |
I had to take it 22 times.
link |
And in the last two or three times, they wrote it out and I read it.
link |
And it still wasn't like I just said it.
link |
I was reading it like, hi, I'm Dan Gable.
link |
You know, that type of stuff.
link |
So it and he finally just closed the book and said, yeah, that's good enough.
link |
But I turned and it was my time to wrestle.
link |
And so, you know, you just you learn that for me, it was great coaching experience
link |
because that's what I turned into be, you know, I coached for longer than I
link |
wrestled and I put out a lot of champions.
link |
But you learn through mistakes that even in your own career that you had made,
link |
you know, it's it's it's an ever learning process.
link |
It's an ever learning process.
link |
Have you ever been afraid on the map?
link |
Does fear have any role, do you think?
link |
For a wrestler or it must be I'm sure fear is out there.
link |
And I'm sure that was to my advantage almost every time.
link |
I'm sure in my Olympic finals, I was really off.
link |
He had these doubts.
link |
He probably had these doubts.
link |
And that gives gives me the the edge.
link |
And I don't know if I really ever had fear.
link |
But obviously there was points in times where I didn't perform as well.
link |
Not many, but a few.
link |
And if I look back at it, look back at it, I don't think it was that.
link |
American, you know, raw, raw, raw stuff.
link |
I think it was probably the fear of.
link |
Not being an artist as much, you know, maybe this guy might be better than me
link |
scientifically and, you know, you're a scientist.
link |
I think that got to me more than anything else.
link |
I said early on that I want to eliminate ever happened
link |
to worry about getting tired in a match.
link |
So I kind of eliminated that.
link |
So I got rid of that point.
link |
And I do think that in wrestling, that is one of the fears that a lot of wrestlers
link |
have, actually how they feel during the match and and do they get are they going
link |
to get tired and and is it going to affect my performance?
link |
And as a coach, that really was one of the things I tried to eliminate on all my
link |
athletes, so there wasn't that fear factor, but that fear factor would be
link |
put upon my opponent, which would give me an edge.
link |
But that's not what I needed as much.
link |
I needed to just focus, make sure that I was doing the right things.
link |
And I needed my team to be focused.
link |
So I made sure that for my mistakes as an athlete or even as a coach sometimes
link |
that I didn't repeat them, didn't repeat them.
link |
And if you make a mistake once and then you can repeat it,
link |
then it's like you didn't learn anything.
link |
You go throughout your wrestling career as you've beautifully put was to work
link |
so hard that you pass out on the mat, right?
link |
That you would be carried off the mat.
link |
So you never did successfully in that's one of the ways you failed in your
link |
career is you've never worked so hard that you've passed out.
link |
Have you ever come close?
link |
Do you remember a time that you've come close?
link |
You've been pushed to the limits of exhaustion?
link |
You know, the question is really a good question about that pushing to you collapse.
link |
Yeah, because I don't as a coach today, I don't think I get if I said that to my
link |
athletes, I don't know, I could get in trouble because, you know, it's understood,
link |
isn't it, by the athletes?
link |
Yeah, they understand it.
link |
But the outside might not understand it because it's almost like,
link |
what do you mean they're you push them to the point where they go collapse?
link |
I mean, they may die or something might happen to them.
link |
And, you know, that's dangerous.
link |
We can't have our kid in that type of atmosphere.
link |
But it's something that's highly unlikely that's going to happen.
link |
But I'm going to tell you, there's many times in a practice where I had pushed
link |
myself to all of a sudden the whistle blew or it was time to stop.
link |
And when I got up off the mat or wherever I was at and I needed water,
link |
I need I needed fresh air because you're usually in a fairly small room with a
link |
lot of guys that the heat rises and and you know, it's hard to breathe.
link |
And that I can remember and I stayed a lot of times, not by the door at the far end
link |
of the room, I can remember walking from the far end of the room to that door.
link |
And I can remember, am I going to make it the next step?
link |
Am I going to make it the next step?
link |
I need air, I need water, I need oxygen, I need to get out of here.
link |
It didn't happen often, but I can recount four or five times in my career
link |
that I pushed myself to that level where I thought I was going to maybe go out.
link |
But every step I was dizzy.
link |
But once I got to that door, I was able to open it and go out and grab the water
link |
and get cold water in my face.
link |
And so, no, I never really was able to do that.
link |
And I think the story is in a book where my my daughter pushed a collapse, Molly.
link |
Oh, my gosh, you know, and she didn't win.
link |
Yeah, but she pushed a collapse.
link |
Now, did she suffer because of that?
link |
Well, she didn't get to go to the next event because she didn't.
link |
She had to qualify, but I think it probably helped her to realize
link |
and because she was winning the race and she was beating people she normally never
link |
pushed, but she was at a new level that she had never been before.
link |
And she only needed about five feet to finish.
link |
And it was just one of those things that I bet there was a lot of learning that she
link |
did there, and it probably made her realize that she could be better.
link |
But she had to hold up, though.
link |
So you mentioned in Wrestling Life that the Brans brothers looked up to Roy
link |
Salger, who was known for pushing the limits of physical wrestling, but not getting too rough.
link |
So how do you find the line between extreme physical wrestling, but at the same
link |
time, not rough wrestling or angry wrestling?
link |
So that line between aggression, tough wrestling and anger.
link |
Well, I think anger would cause
link |
less successful wrestling.
link |
I think anger would cause you to make
link |
mistakes and actually get out of position.
link |
Because I think anger is kind of a loss of control.
link |
And there can be a furious type of attack.
link |
But I think if it crosses the line to anger,
link |
then you're going to be vulnerable.
link |
Royce and the Brans wrestled to the edge through the edge.
link |
But when the whistle blew, they stopped.
link |
And there's people that when the whistle blows, they keep going.
link |
It's like in a football game, a fight breaks out and it's after the whistles blow.
link |
Well, when the whistle blew, they they backed off.
link |
So that whistle was something that in a match.
link |
That that kind of gave them the boundaries.
link |
But perhaps it could be a little bit of fuel.
link |
So in Wrestling Tough, the book that you just got from Mike Chapman, the new edition,
link |
talks about Bill Cole, undefeated Northern Iowa wrestler and how he talked about
link |
how my strength, speed and ability to think were increased tremendously by just
link |
sitting apart from the action prior to the match and getting into a state of
link |
controlled anger, so can anger controlled.
link |
So anger could be fuel as long as it's controlled.
link |
You had that line.
link |
One side of the line, you can have an anger for performance.
link |
And the other side of the line, you if you go beyond that, it's not going to be for
link |
performance, it's going to be for not performance because you're going to lose points.
link |
There's definitely a fine line.
link |
You're talking about Roy Selger.
link |
You're talking about Tom Brands.
link |
You're talking about Terry Brands.
link |
I mean, you got World Championship titles there.
link |
You got Olympic Championship title there.
link |
You got a World Silver Medalist in in in Roy Selger.
link |
And, you know, that's what when I talk to him about the World Silver
link |
Medalist, he's haunted by that because he was actually 20 seconds away from
link |
winning when he got beat in the end there.
link |
But that's part of the game.
link |
And it's I don't know whether he's OK with it or not, because he says after
link |
talking about things, he goes, I'm OK with it now.
link |
But then he keeps talking about it.
link |
So I don't really think he's OK with it.
link |
And it's it's hard for him to actually make amends to himself
link |
when you really don't do it.
link |
I mean, it's no matter what the situation, even with the Owings loss.
link |
Yeah, it still eats it.
link |
I mean, yeah, I'm a world champion.
link |
He's not and he wanted to be.
link |
I'm an Olympic champion.
link |
He's not. He wanted to be one of the greatest coaches of all time.
link |
And so, you know, so he, you know, it's like, why do I keep going back to it?
link |
Because because you're not you don't get over those things.
link |
So Royce really keeps going back to it, even though he says he's fine.
link |
And and but then he realizes he's really not fine, because that's just the nature
link |
of the game, and that's why he was able to win national titles and and make
link |
world teams and and stuff like that.
link |
You know, even if what's interesting about him, he's analyzed all the people
link |
that he's wrestled and a lot of them have one world and Olympic championships.
link |
And he's beaten every one of them at one time or another.
link |
And he didn't get to that world championship gold or Olympic gold.
link |
And that he says it because they did it.
link |
So he's showing people that that I beat in those guys.
link |
But apparently he didn't beat him at the right time.
link |
And so it's still haunting.
link |
You don't get away from that stuff.
link |
I mean, it's just like anything in life that's really high.
link |
I mean, it doesn't have to be athletics.
link |
I mean, do you think I'm ever going to get over the murder of my sister?
link |
And you might not even know that.
link |
Let me pause for a second, please.
link |
You've talked about it, you've written about it.
link |
So I hope it's OK for me to say that your sister, your older sister,
link |
on May 31st, 1964, was raped and murdered by a local boy.
link |
So the echoes of pain and anger from that tragic day, did they ripple through your
link |
life still, through your wrestling, through your coaching, through your the way
link |
you when you wake up in the morning?
link |
What is that like?
link |
It can be very emotional to me under certain circumstances.
link |
And it can be the mood I'm in.
link |
You know, it can be maybe if I've had a Mountain Dew or or maybe if I've had a
link |
Gable beer or or or or or maybe if you turn the country music up a little bit loud.
link |
You know, emotions come out and everybody has them in their life.
link |
It's just so happens.
link |
You know, what brings it out?
link |
And hopefully it's nothing that you do to the extreme point of to where it brings
link |
it out. For me, it's not extreme.
link |
I don't have to have any of that, really.
link |
I can get emotional.
link |
How did that change you as a man?
link |
What it did was realize that I was already.
link |
Pretty well developed because I was only a sophomore, 15 years old in high school.
link |
And I had parents that weren't making it and my parents are a lot older than me.
link |
And now that we're down just to me and my parents and I'm going to be around the
link |
house for another two years and they had just lost a daughter that was the only
link |
They weren't handling it.
link |
They were the ones that were suffering much more than me.
link |
Even though I always look back upon one area that I wasn't good at was communication
link |
at that time, except inside the resident room, because I had been tipped off.
link |
Well, the neighbor boy said that something to me about my sister just three weeks
link |
before that, that really wasn't normal or practical.
link |
And I said nothing to nobody.
link |
Is there a part of you that blames yourself?
link |
But I'm 15 years old and you make mistakes.
link |
And you don't really act on everything that happens in your life.
link |
But I can tell you how it affected me and I acted a lot on
link |
anything that maybe wasn't even of that consequence.
link |
I mean, because I had four daughters and I'm telling you, when they left every time
link |
to go somewhere in a car or go out with someplace, I always said something to them.
link |
And they would always say, dad, you said that last night.
link |
I don't care what like I love you or I'd say, I'd say, like, don't be driving
link |
and drinking or or don't be in a car with somebody that's, you know, of the of the
link |
same nature or, you know, stay out of trouble, you know, don't go be somewhere
link |
where you, you know, you have, I said, you know how to get out of a car if you
link |
if your car goes into the river, you know, I just, you know, I'm always
link |
thinking ahead a little bit just in case of something did happen.
link |
And it goes back to that goes back to that
link |
walk to school with that with that young man that when he was talking to me and I
link |
just I took it and I kept it inside me.
link |
And once I found out she had been murdered,
link |
it took me maybe 25 to 30 minutes.
link |
And I told my dad, I think I know who killed her.
link |
And he looked at me and he just like, he slapped me, actually.
link |
He pushed me against the car.
link |
He didn't slap me.
link |
He pushed me against the car.
link |
My mom slaps me and she was the one that slapped me around a little bit.
link |
But my dad, he he pushed me against the car.
link |
What do you mean you might know something about this?
link |
I said, dad, I don't for sure.
link |
But and I would probably all crying, but and I don't I doubt if I was crying yet.
link |
I've probably cried a lot of tears since.
link |
But but, you know, I just said, hey, I was walking to school with this neighbor.
link |
And I never had walked to school with him before.
link |
And he was kind of a troubled kid.
link |
And he said something about Diane and it wasn't good.
link |
But I I didn't he goes, why didn't you say something?
link |
I said, dad, I just boy talk, you know.
link |
So, you know, and so he hugged me, he hugged me, he hugged me.
link |
And, you know, it was one of these things that
link |
it's definitely made me
link |
a lot of who I am because there's been a lot of choices.
link |
And I don't I took the word choice out of my life.
link |
And I just like to say, OK, do the right thing.
link |
Do the thing that you should do.
link |
And so I don't really it's like, are you going to do this or this?
link |
Well, what do you mean? Which one's better?
link |
You know, well, then I'm so I don't have that choice.
link |
Yeah, just give me the right way to go.
link |
And so I thought that I'd been perfect by any means,
link |
but it's made a big difference in my life on how I handle my life.
link |
It's probably given me the opportunity to be married for 44 years.
link |
It's just given me opportunities to be better in my life.
link |
And and I, you know, I want to thank my sister for that.
link |
and I think my family was ready to make a split because of that incident.
link |
They're blaming each other.
link |
I was able to help.
link |
But more than that, they really liked each other,
link |
but they didn't really know it at the time until I got out of the house.
link |
Two years later, it probably was going on for a couple of years until I moved on
link |
and went to college, then they found out they really liked each other
link |
when they were alone and it worked out pretty good.
link |
But I think them being able to follow me,
link |
not just through college and the Olympics and worlds, but my coaching.
link |
So it's the same, the same success and factor, you know,
link |
the excitement and all those things gave them a real purpose.
link |
And it gave my four daughters, it gave my wife, you know, a real purpose
link |
to be able to be close to all these champions and championships.
link |
And and now it's because now it's like there's a family of twenty two
link |
and they're all interested in what what we're interested in.
link |
And it's going good, knock on wood.
link |
But, you know, it's something that when all of a sudden you got too much time in
link |
your hands and you're not doing and accomplishing much, that things probably.
link |
You know, get off, get off track.
link |
What do you think is the role of family in wrestling?
link |
Can a man do it alone?
link |
And if not, where's family most important?
link |
You know, you could do it alone.
link |
But why would you want to?
link |
Yeah, I think the chances of doing it alone are much less than the chances of doing
link |
it together. Yeah.
link |
I know they say, don't bring your profession home.
link |
Sometimes they say that I never I never got away from my profession.
link |
Yeah. And, you know, sometimes I it's like my house right here.
link |
So when I'm moving home, I'm not going to have an office because I'm not going to
link |
coach anymore or I'm not going to be an assistant athletic director for a while.
link |
That you got to do something that.
link |
Gives you a little bit of a break, not you necessarily, maybe the person you're
link |
living with. And so I don't know if you looked outside there.
link |
I got a cabin right on my backyard.
link |
You probably can't see it right there.
link |
But what's in the cabin?
link |
That's my house away from my house.
link |
It's only 30 feet from my house and it's my office and it's my workout room.
link |
It's my I got a sauna there.
link |
It's a bed upstairs if I need it.
link |
If I ever get too close and she says, hey, why don't you go sleep in the other house?
link |
But, you know, it kicks me out of the bed.
link |
But get the heck out.
link |
It's never happened.
link |
But I do spend a lot of time out there.
link |
And it's, you know, you got to have a little distance sometimes.
link |
And you got to know your, I don't know your role.
link |
And so all of a sudden when you're a guy that's been gone your whole life from
link |
eight oclock in the morning till close to seven, three or eight oclock at night.
link |
So 11, 12 hours a day.
link |
Then all of a sudden you're not gone as much, even though you still work.
link |
She's trying to slow me down now.
link |
I'm doing not so much like here, what we're doing right now, but when I get in
link |
the car and drive somewhere or fly somewhere, you know, like just last night,
link |
I just went to bed and I hadn't told her that this guy called me and he wants me
link |
to speak for a bit, want to build another wrestling wants to start another
link |
wrestlers and business networking out in.
link |
Delaware, because we don't have any colleges in wrestling in Delaware.
link |
And so I said, well, you know, I'm gladly that because that's my life, you know.
link |
So, but then all of a sudden I, I didn't say to my wife until all of a sudden this
link |
morning and I told her that I might go on the Friday the 21st of December.
link |
Well, well, I said, that's not Christmas.
link |
She goes, we're celebrating Christmas that weekend early because a lot of the family
link |
can't be here except for that weekend.
link |
And I said, oh, well, that's not going to work.
link |
But I kind of didn't say anything to her at first.
link |
And then she, well, I'll tell you, she started getting a little emotional.
link |
And if I want to stay married for another year, 45 years,
link |
then I better tell those people that I got family obligations because
link |
you got to depends what's most important.
link |
And I want to start another help or start another
link |
wrestlers and business network.
link |
But there's more than one day in Gable out there.
link |
But, but, but there's a lot of people that are
link |
maybe even closer and they got big names.
link |
I mean, we're we're doing pretty well right now.
link |
I mean, we got first two years ago and we got second this year.
link |
And then we got the women's freestyles doing good in wrestling.
link |
We got to work a little bit on our Greco yet.
link |
But, but they are working on it.
link |
But our men's freestyle team right now are are excellent.
link |
And, you know, and
link |
the key for them is to get them all on the same page
link |
instead of just have new highlights.
link |
And by that, I'm saying who you look and see who won this year.
link |
Well, the three guys that have never won before won this year.
link |
We had three world champions.
link |
Our two past world champions.
link |
Didn't win this year.
link |
I mean, they they did OK.
link |
You know, they got medals.
link |
Yeah. And so July got, I mean,
link |
Snyder got second.
link |
So those two are our main guys, you know, so the three new guys that came through
link |
were guys that hadn't won world gold.
link |
In fact, two of them have never made a world team before.
link |
And so we have three world champions this year,
link |
but we needed all five of them to come through to win the championships.
link |
And so the key really is
link |
getting them all to do the same at the same time year in and year out and not
link |
just based on, OK, borrows got beat this year, so he'll win next year.
link |
It's got to be every year if you're capable of doing that.
link |
And that's what the coaching staff has to do.
link |
It's kind of funny that I do have a lot of influence,
link |
actually, on the coaching staffs right now at the USA level, because the women's
link |
freestyle guy is Terry Steiner and he wrestled for me as a national champion.
link |
He's got a twin brother that's at Fresno State.
link |
And then Billy Zaddick is the freestyle coach and he wrestled for the Hawkeyes
link |
back in the early days and he was the national champion.
link |
So we got a lot of former Gable influence on there, but but it's got deep roots in
link |
that in 2013, the International Olympic Committee, IOC voted wrestling out of the Olympics.
link |
So a lot of folks know about this, the absurdity of it and so on.
link |
But in a big picture, you can step back now, it's five years later.
link |
What did you learn from that experience?
link |
Well, first of all,
link |
did it surprise me?
link |
But did it really surprise me?
link |
You've got to run, you've got to have people running
link |
the organization that are top notch.
link |
If you take anything for granted
link |
and you're not the person of authority, somebody can kick you out.
link |
And even though we had a lot of authority because we're wrestling, we're one of the
link |
first sports in the Olympics ever and that we think that, you know, we're in 180
link |
some countries and some of the number one countries in the world that are politically
link |
strong, have the sport, you know, we thought we were OK.
link |
But then you got to look and see who's running the IOC.
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The IOC, the International Olympic Committee.
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And then you got to see that
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in wrestling, we don't have anybody in there.
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I mean, that shocked me.
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We've never had anybody on the IOC from wrestling.
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Because we didn't have to.
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But yes, that's wrong.
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And if you don't have somebody looking out for you right within the structure,
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then it's pretty easy people turn their head.
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But all it took was
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the statement you guys are kicked out of the Olympics.
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You guys are done.
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Everybody came together.
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And then well, yeah, I think it's the first time in ever in history that probably
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all this competitive people that were working for their own agenda.
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Turn that agenda to the sport.
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And so that made a big difference.
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And we got a lot done.
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In fact, in America, there was several people that were
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really out there that we didn't know about until this point in time.
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And when they came aboard,
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now they're still aboard.
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That doesn't mean we're doing everything perfect because just because we got voted
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back in before we even got kicked out, really.
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That doesn't mean we're by any means safe.
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We have to do some of the things that I'm talking about or the some of the things
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that we didn't do before.
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We can't fall right back into the same mess.
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Yes. And so our leadership got changed
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and it's better, but it's got to stay better.
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But there are things that we could still be doing to make sure that we don't have
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situations like this happen.
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I tell you, when I first learned about it, I was like,
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I broke down and wept again.
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It's like every once in a while, I'll break down and cry about
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my sister or I'll break down.
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I don't know if I cry about losing the oinks, but
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I probably get more determined, but that's kind of
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you have to go back and think about those moments when you heard.
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When I heard that moment and I
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I said, it just overcame me.
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It was like four oclock, four thirty in the morning when I heard about it.
link |
And my wife had been up looking at the internet and she woke me up and I thought
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she was joking, but I jumped out of bed really quick.
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When she said that, I knew she was serious and I started making phone calls
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right then to find out if it was true.
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And when I found out it was true, it was just like devastating.
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You know, and it was one of these things that it's a nightmare.
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And but you don't let it happen again.
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Yeah. And you keep getting stronger.
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And if people haven't read, they should read The Loss of Dan Gable by Ray Thompson,
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the ESPN article that kind of in this very beautiful poetic way.
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all the losses of Dan Gable, the losing your sister, losing to Larry Owens,
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losing wrestling from the Olympics, all of these tragedies of various forms.
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So so that's the IOC.
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There's politics and you're sort of being very pragmatic.
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But stepping back, wrestling is one of the oldest forms of combat period.
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Dating back, there's cave drawings 15,000 years ago.
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And if you look at the ancient Olympics, the Greek Olympics, 2700 years ago,
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did you ever, when you wrestled or coached, do you now
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see wrestling in this way of freestyle and folk style wrestling?
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The purity of sort of two human beings locked in combat.
link |
The the roots of that is just human beings,
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this fair struggle between two men or two women.
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I don't think I ever
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As anything but just a combat.
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I think there's times that have made me
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figure out how to make that combat better.
link |
There's little markers or little points in time in your life
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Wonder or it should say determined.
link |
To be able to get more out of yourself
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and to be able to take it to a new level.
link |
And I don't think people can actually feel that way unless you've actually had
link |
a lot of accomplishments in anything.
link |
I think there's anything out there.
link |
I mean, no matter what sport or breaking the four minute mile.
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I mean, when you broke that, when they broke that,
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Roger Bannister broke that four minute mile.
link |
I can't imagine him breaking it from his best time being four thirty.
link |
You know, it's one of these things that
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along the line there that he did had some close calls
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or he had some coaching that was giving him the opportunity to become a little
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better, but I think because he was doing well and being very successful.
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That the opportunity came.
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And so for me, it's like the same thing.
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I had so much success
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and so many practices that went well and so much goodness out of this sport.
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That it gave me the opportunity to really look more finite and look more how I
link |
can even make it better.
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And so it's like if you look at my library upstairs, I got a library upstairs.
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And there's a lot of books up there
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And but if you look at the Gable books up there,
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I got a lot of Russian technique books.
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I can't read the book, but I can see the diagrams and I can see the figures.
link |
They don't really show it in pictures.
link |
They do it in drawings.
link |
And and so it was like when I was trying to beat the best that is
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labeled the best because they win the World Championships every year since they
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been just about involved and I don't think they got started involved till
link |
like the fifties, but but you know, it's
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something you know, you study the best who's out there.
link |
But then you don't focus so much on the best that you can't beat the best.
link |
You learn from them.
link |
But there's something that they don't have.
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That you can have.
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Toughness to technique, to the art, to the science.
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Yeah, all that stuff.
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And that's why I even talking to you when you're sitting over there and you love
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MIT and you're bragging about it over Harvard, you know, you know, it's
link |
because it's true in your eyes.
link |
And and that's and that's great and it might be.
link |
But but it's the same type of thing that, you know, there's something that you're
link |
probably stealing from Harvard, but you won't give them credit.
link |
Well, Dan, in the interest of time,
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I've read that you're pretty serious.
link |
You're pretty seriously into fishing.
link |
So what's the biggest fish you ever caught?
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What are we talking about here?
link |
Are we talking about?
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No, I don't think I've ever caught a big ocean fish.
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I'm not. I'm a River Lake fisherman.
link |
No, probably probably Northern.
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OK, I probably caught a Northern net weight, 20 some pounds.
link |
You know, the fish I like to catch is walleyes.
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And the reason why I like to catch them is because they're really good eating fish.
link |
And the best eating fish are not the real big ones.
link |
You know, it's kind of kind of interesting.
link |
I got people hunting deer right on my land and they're looking for the big bucks,
link |
but they're not the best eaters if you want, if you want to eat them.
link |
But they're the best trophy.
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So, you know, I do have a couple of trophy walleyes on the wall.
link |
But but most of the time I throw the big ones back and put them back in there.
link |
So I don't know if you know, there's a book by Hemingway called Old Man in the Sea.
link |
And heard of it and Ernest Hemingway, Ernest Hemingway.
link |
Yeah. And he there's an old man that basically
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catches an 18 footer, but it can't pull it in, doesn't have the strength.
link |
So they together spend while the sharks eat away at it.
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I mean, this is a very powerful story, I think one of the Nobel Prize.
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But he says it's better to be lucky.
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The old man says it's better to be lucky.
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But I would rather be exact that that that way when luck comes, you're ready.
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So let me ask what do you think about luck?
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Do you believe in free will that we have actions that control the direction
link |
destination of our life or does luck and some other outside forces really
link |
land you where you end up?
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For me, I'm not about luck.
link |
But I do think there is luck is involved.
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But I think it's mostly created
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just how lucky you are through preparations.
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And things have things have happened in my life forever.
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And a lot of good things and a lot of people could say, hey,
link |
you've been pretty lucky to win all these awards.
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I don't know if you analyze my life.
link |
I don't think it was involved with luck.
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I think it was more involved with preparation.
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And again, science, had you been smarter, had you understood that you could do
link |
some things and be just as lucky, that'd be great.
link |
But I'm only as smart as today.
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So when I was training in my life and me even training people in my life.
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As of that moment, that's how lucky I am to be able to
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have whatever is available to me.
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And that's what you call that a lot of science.
link |
So for me, I think that like right now, if I look back, I do a lot of things
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different just because things are proven differently.
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Like I'd give people water during practice and I did.
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And I would let them change their wrestling shoes into running shoes to run
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sprints on the concrete.
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Or I would actually maybe maybe I've had a guy climb 12 ropes after practice one
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after another, and then maybe the next day I'd do it again.
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You know, I might not make him do it the next day.
link |
I might let him recover a little bit more.
link |
And you got to learn, keep adding to your philosophy.
link |
And your philosophy may have been great at that time, but it's at that time.
link |
And what is really important is where you at with this time today.
link |
And so there's better ways to do things.
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Now, if you ever take attitude out of it and just depend on total science.
link |
Then, you know, you're not going to be as as, you know, I think as I listened
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to a couple of people that are really pretty famous people.
link |
When I was John Irving, he was a writer.
link |
Yeah, and he told me, he says, you think I really
link |
learned how to be a great writer in.
link |
I said, yeah, I learned a lot there.
link |
But really what gave me the ability
link |
to stay focused, to work extra hours, to be more disciplined was wrestling practices.
link |
That's right. He was a wrestler.
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Yeah, he goes, I go back to that.
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That's what gave me that chance.
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You know, and and there's a guy in Iowa that
link |
guy named Norman Borlaug, he he learned he
link |
he invented a process to feed the underprivileged countries of the world.
link |
he was a wrestler and he said the same thing.
link |
And he worked extremely hard.
link |
And he said, I give a lot of credit to the sport of wrestling.
link |
And even though I was I'm known for this
link |
and I got a statue in Washington, DC, because I saved a billion lives.
link |
Plus, I'm going to give wrestling a lot of credit.
link |
So, you know, I think some of these
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MMA stars and some of these guys that maybe weren't wrestlers that had to
link |
wrestle, had to fight wrestling guys and stuff, missed a little bit there.
link |
But I think the ones that did have wrestling
link |
probably have a really good chance and can adapt to the other ones.
link |
But I think every martial art or every activity is good and you probably can't
link |
skip any, but I don't think they're ever going to overlook and say that
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wrestling's pretty not are not valuable because
link |
However, that doesn't mean you're going to make it.
link |
You still got to take the values and apply it.
link |
Whatever area you're going to be in and and some people forget that.
link |
Some people can't get over
link |
the highness of getting your arm raised in a wrestling match.
link |
And you know what?
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What's even greater than me getting my arm raised is that I if I'm a coach or if
link |
I didn't belong with you, that you get your arm raised.
link |
And even if you don't get your arm raised, it's what you walk away with and how
link |
and how you learn to handle that as well, because there's going to be some losses.
link |
But you don't want many because you don't want to get used to losing.
link |
I can tell you that it's the hunger for the win.
link |
It's the brotherhood, the sisterhood of the wrestling room.
link |
And it's hard work and science that's going to be luck at the end of the day.
link |
That luck, you know, I'm, you know, I like luck, but I think it's
link |
created by the opportunity that you make your luck.
link |
You make your luck.
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Yeah. Dan, it was a huge honor.
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Thank you for welcoming me into your home and for having this conversation.
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Thanks for listening to this conversation with Dan Gable.
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And thank you to our sponsors, Trial Labs, a machine learning company,
link |
ExpressVPN, Grammarly Writing Helper Tool, and Simply Save Home Security.
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So the choice is artificial intelligence, privacy, grammar or safety.
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Choose wisely, my friends.
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And if you wish, click the sponsor links below to get a discount and to support
link |
And now let me leave you with some words from Dan Gable.
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The first period is won by the best technician.
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The second period is won by the kid in the best shape.
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And the third period is won by the kid with the biggest heart.
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Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.