back to indexChris Duffin: The Mad Scientist of Strength | Lex Fridman Podcast #207
link |
The following is a conversation with Chris Duffin, the mad scientist of strength.
link |
He's one of the strongest people in the world, but is also an engineer of some of the most
link |
innovative strength equipment I've ever seen.
link |
Check out his company Kabuki Strength.
link |
He is the only person who squatted and deadlifted 1000 pounds for multiple reps, and achieved
link |
many other amazing feats of strength.
link |
He has lived one hell of a life of hardship and triumph, as he writes about in his book
link |
called The Eagle and the Dragon.
link |
Quick mention of our sponsors, Headspace, Magic Spoon, Sun Basket, and Ladder.
link |
Check them out in the description to support this podcast.
link |
As a side note, let me say that I was always a fan of strength, both powerlifting and Olympic
link |
weightlifting, both as a fan and practitioner.
link |
Basically I'm a fan of people who are willing to put in years of hard work towards finding
link |
out what the limits of their body is, and then smashing past those limits.
link |
People like Chris Duffin, or on the Olympic weightlifting side, people like Dmitri Klokov.
link |
That guy is great.
link |
This is why I love watching the Olympics, both the heartbreaks and the triumphs.
link |
They all reveal the incredible heights that the human mind and the human body can reach.
link |
This is the Lex Friedman podcast, and here is my conversation with Chris Duffin.
link |
You've been a part of several incredible feats of strength.
link |
Which was the hardest, or maybe one you're most proud of?
link |
Definitely the one I'm most proud of is that journey for the grand goals.
link |
It was like a five year scope that I chased this.
link |
And so when you think about training, it took more than five years, obviously.
link |
By that point, I'd been training for over 25 years.
link |
But it makes me proud.
link |
I mean, there were three distinct things that I wanted to accomplish out of this.
link |
So it was really thought out.
link |
And this was kind of my exit from being a competitive lifter.
link |
And basically saying, hey, I'm going to be an Instagram lifter, an exhibition lifter,
link |
I've done this for 16 years, I was number one in the world for like eight years straight,
link |
all time world records.
link |
And I'm like, I'm not going to do that anymore.
link |
What I want to do is just something deep down to me that is really important.
link |
And there's three things that were driving this.
link |
And this is a five year journey that I went through to do this.
link |
I really wanted to showcase that you could do something that is well beyond the scope
link |
of what people think is humanly possible.
link |
So just this inspiration thing, this grand over the top, like if you set your mind to
link |
a single minded goal, you can go so much further.
link |
And I didn't even say what the goal was upfront, because it was so far out there, I would have
link |
And that's, I think big goals should be kept pretty damn close to start with for that reason
link |
But and then the second piece was to walk the walk to show like the principles of what
link |
I believed in around human movement, the ability to manage and control the spinal mechanics
link |
and the output that can have on the body.
link |
And so I wanted to take the two most basic movements that every able bodied person should
link |
So fundamental movement patterns, the squat, which is like, in the developmental approach
link |
is around nine months as a baby from a developmental kinesiology standpoint, and a really basic
link |
pattern that every able bodied person should be able to master the other one being the
link |
hip hinge, being able to pick something up off the ground, a deadlift.
link |
And I wanted to do those two, not just one, because I wanted to show the principles that
link |
I wasn't built for one, I wasn't a specialist because of my lever links, torso links, all
link |
that, any outliers, because nobody had ever done a thousand pound squat.
link |
So this is it is and a thousand pound deadlift.
link |
It was outside of the scope of what anybody's there's like half a dozen people that have
link |
done one or the other, but nobody's ever done both.
link |
And I wanted to do something unique.
link |
I wanted to do them, not only do it, but do them for reps to leave literally no question
link |
And there's no competition for that.
link |
So it was this is what I'm going to go do.
link |
And to pull it off, I had some past issues with my elbows and stuff that I couldn't work
link |
So I had to wear straps, which was another reason I couldn't do it in the competition
link |
So the first year I worked up and I did a thousand and two pound deadlift plates were
link |
weighed afterwards.
link |
It was a couple a little bit over and I did it for almost three reps.
link |
And that still stands as a Guinness world record.
link |
Just the one rep does is the most weight ever sumo deadlifted.
link |
And one other person has deadlifted a thousand for reps at this point.
link |
And that was a Thor Bjornsson from Game of Thrones.
link |
He's done a thousand for a double as well.
link |
So then the next four years and I did a bunch of feats of strength on the way, but it was
link |
all about building that axial loading capacity, the strength that because now I'm moving the
link |
weight from my hands up to my shoulders.
link |
And so to do it for reps is like so much harder than a single like five to 10 seconds versus
link |
30 plus seconds to be able to buffer and manage all that with that kind of load is just crazy.
link |
So it's literally about the duration that your body is carrying the load.
link |
Yeah, that's a big part of it.
link |
Yeah, because you have to you're using the resource of the diaphragm for stabilization.
link |
And so it it's also responsible for respiration and all this other stuff.
link |
So even when you're not squatting, you've got to be handling those loads.
link |
Just holding that weight is fascinating.
link |
It's like it's fascinating that the human body can do that, can can maintain that structure,
link |
just everything working together, that the biology, the skeletal structure, the the musculature
link |
on top of that can hold the weight.
link |
It's fascinating to watch.
link |
Everything is very intentful about positioning and how you're creating pressure and all this
link |
sort of stuff, especially for me.
link |
So when I mentioned that half a dozen people have squatted it and half a dozen people have
link |
You understand those people all weigh three hundred and eighty to four hundred and forty
link |
I weighed to sixty five to two eighty five, depending on where I was between the two.
link |
So there's that as well.
link |
So big, big difference.
link |
And over the course of that, I did a lot of other feats of strength that fit in that capacity.
link |
And we can skip over those.
link |
But that was hugely invested as far as, you know, what I put into being able to accomplish
link |
that, because it's it's over the top, which means the other stuff had to shift and I had
link |
There's so many things that came into place to pull that off.
link |
And so, yeah, last March, two days before the world shut down, I did it.
link |
It was supposed to be at the largest equipment exhibition in the world down in San Diego
link |
And that got shut down a week beforehand, obviously.
link |
So we moved to let's do it in my gym and invite people.
link |
And that was on a Saturday and Thursday or Friday, they limited it to twenty five people
link |
I did it on Saturday and then Monday, everything shut down.
link |
So it was kind of surreal for timing wise.
link |
And so if I hadn't done it, it would have never got done like because I I'd pushed to
link |
I couldn't come back and do it.
link |
It was at the total limitation of my capabilities.
link |
So I'm pretty I'm pretty proud of it.
link |
And the last piece was a every one of these feats along the way.
link |
I collaborated with a charity that I believed in.
link |
And there was a lot of those tied to my life story, which we probably will get into.
link |
So it was threefold.
link |
So that inspiration piece, inspiration, motivation, walking the walk and showing like just these
link |
methodologies that a guy that had to learn to walk again can do something like this with
link |
So if you if you there is a way.
link |
And the third one is is to provide awareness and recognition around a lot of key charities.
link |
So so your heart was in this journey, but also your mind is just you're like a scholar
link |
of strength, a scientist of strength, an engineer of strength for reps do a thousand pounds
link |
squat and deadlift.
link |
Let's first talk through the actual day you did it.
link |
What does it take to lift that much for reps?
link |
The day of is really easy.
link |
The really the lift itself.
link |
Other than a few seconds is really easy and not challenging.
link |
People always ask me, what was it like?
link |
How beat up were you after that?
link |
And the simple fact is, it was easy.
link |
The work to get there was horrendous.
link |
So so even the psychology of the day you weren't there was not a fear.
link |
There was not a nervousness.
link |
There is not a doubt in your mind.
link |
There were certainly doubts on that day from some training history.
link |
So there was some major breaks to my confidence in the couple months leading up where I had
link |
issues with passing out under the bar.
link |
So completely losing consciousness.
link |
And this was on weight less than a thousand pounds even.
link |
So that was like all this buildup in me going, what if what if I think I have this resolved?
link |
But what if I get up there and I can't even do a rep?
link |
How embarrassing will this be that I've been talking about this and planning for this for
link |
But outside of that, I knew I could do it.
link |
In fact, I wanted to do even more even up to the second rep.
link |
Training is about, you know, working into a fatigue state.
link |
So you're building an amount of fatigue in your system.
link |
And then when you let off of it, that's when you get a compensation.
link |
And that's how you stairstep training.
link |
This is periodization.
link |
But leading into a big event, you're accumulating this massive amount of fatigue.
link |
And so I was performing at a level that I could do it.
link |
And so I knew I was going to be able to on me because then you then you give yourself
link |
that window to be able to recover and supercompensate and be able to do a little bit more.
link |
So like that first rep when I did it strengthwise, I went, I could do this for five reps like
link |
it went through my head.
link |
I'm like feeling I mean, it was easy and it was fast and it felt like amazing.
link |
And I'm like, I'm going to crush this.
link |
And then set rep to the realization kicked in as like, oh, this is for reps with a thousand
link |
pounds on your back.
link |
And you're fatiguing just like and then the third one was every last thing I could muster
link |
I mean, I just barely got it done because it's the strength is like there.
link |
But like that capacity to be able to manage all those resources for that amount of time
link |
because not just leg strength when we're talking about this stuff.
link |
So what does it take to go from the from I don't know what like from five hundred to
link |
That feels like a journey that's like exponential.
link |
It's it gets exponentially harder.
link |
In the early 2000s, like I said, I started lifting in 1988.
link |
But my first meet in the early 2000s, my my max deadlift was five twenty three and my
link |
first squat was five hundred and fifty.
link |
So that's the heck of a journey.
link |
It is a journey for people that like to lift.
link |
What should they understand about the difference between doing five hundred and a thousand in
link |
terms of the actual lift that you were experiencing that day in terms of the mechanics, in terms
link |
of all the things you have to be like the neurological adaptation?
link |
You mentioned the breathing, the core strength, like techniques, like little tricks, psychological
link |
tricks, anything that kind of stands out to you.
link |
The level of intent and the opportunity for error are at a different level.
link |
So just the minutest changes of position by quarter inch, half inch can be make or break
link |
So these things, everything gets amplified.
link |
So the ability to start with having the pelvis just in the right orientation to the diaphragm
link |
before we start initiating what we call the the eccentric loading of the abdominal cavity
link |
to create this intra abdominal pressure of working against this outward expansion, working
link |
against the outer sheath of abdominal thoracolumbar musculature obliques, causing the co contraction
link |
at the pelvic floor, all this stuff and how you cue that because you can't think about
link |
You need to break it down and distill and practice to like it's one simple cue that
link |
we now lock down and control this torso stability because this is what these fundamental movements
link |
are about, is being able to control our spinal mechanics and then now be able to maintain
link |
that while articulating the joints around that through a range of motion and then using
link |
the main power drivers.
link |
So in this instance, both instances, it's the, you know, the hip complex to generate
link |
that power and transfer it from how we're rooted and connected to the floor through
link |
to the distal end, you know, which would be the barbell on the shoulder.
link |
You know, there's a couple key concepts.
link |
So one is that what we just talked through is how to actually maintain that stability.
link |
So if you have either the diaphragm, so which is connected at the rib cage.
link |
So out of alignment in any position, it needs to be in alignment with the pelvic, the pelvis.
link |
So those two in opposition.
link |
So this is simple engineering here because what we're going to do is eccentrically load
link |
We're going to use the diaphragm just like you would in a diaphragm pump where it's going
link |
to press down on all the tissue in there.
link |
So we're not using breath.
link |
So our breath was actually a lot of times a default pattern when people do that because
link |
they'll bring it into their chest and raise their rib cage.
link |
So what we want to do is just initiate the diaphragm air can be used as well over the
link |
top at the final to create just a little bit more downward pressure.
link |
But if we have out of alignment there, we have a pressure leak where it's going to be
link |
push out the front or the rear if you're either inflection or extension.
link |
And then that causes this co contraction and all this pressure of the organs essentially
link |
against outward against all those tissue for the co contraction as well as surrounding
link |
the spine to be able to stabilize that.
link |
And then it puts all the muscles on both sides of the body in what we call the best length
link |
tension relationship.
link |
So if you think about a curl and we reach our arm out at the extended length, our bicep
link |
is not as strong and then all the way in the curl position, it's not in strong.
link |
There's somewhere in here that's this control of both.
link |
And so when you're sitting there arched or bent over, we have muscles that are past either
link |
one of those ranges.
link |
So they've got a lot of tension, which then will create relaxation on the other side.
link |
So we want to have an all of that needs to be working.
link |
And now the next important thing is the foot.
link |
So it's actually this connection to the ground and how we're actually using the foot and
link |
ankle complex to grab and grip this connection to the ground and elicit an effect.
link |
And because of this and then the everything between will naturally kind of do what it
link |
So people like to focus on it, knee position or how far out their hips are or all this
link |
other stuff, which is outputs of this.
link |
So if we control the torso and the knee, the only thing that can happen from that point
link |
is for the squat to happen.
link |
So this allows us to use this massive, you know, the hip complex for all the muscles
link |
around that that are built to drive through hip extension to complete the squat.
link |
I did actually miss one thing in there.
link |
So this torso people often miss the lat is a spinal stabilizer as well.
link |
So that's key in controlling function at the the T.L. Junction, which is just above the
link |
So kind of right opposite where your sternum is and you'll see people kind of roll over
link |
sometimes like an Olympic squad or something like that, where they lose position.
link |
And that's often because they're close grip because you can't engage the lats very well
link |
that way and they're pushing up in the bar.
link |
But you want to be able to drive and pull the bar to your center.
link |
And that's going to create and use the lats now to drive and connect the shoulder into
link |
We're kind of compressing and tightening all this stuff towards that center to create that
link |
entire torso stability.
link |
So I was using torso stability, not just core stability in my conversation earlier.
link |
OK, so there's all these like modules of the body then connected to the grounding with
link |
like your feet on the ground.
link |
Everything you're speaking to.
link |
How do you work each of those modules?
link |
Is this over time you kind of develop the feel that ultimately boils down to this one
link |
simple cue that you mentioned?
link |
Or do you can you like literally study each particular module in yourself and see how
link |
it affects the lift?
link |
So the best way and I believe it's because I hate just like people getting out and just
link |
doing just movement stuff and not actually adding load because we only adapt when there's
link |
Maybe we can get some, you know, some proprioception or awareness of position and other stuff,
link |
doing some some corrective patterns and other stuff.
link |
But this is basic physiology is that there must be an imposed demand for us to have adaptation.
link |
And this is mental.
link |
This is emotional.
link |
This is all these areas.
link |
But and people miss that.
link |
So I prefer to be able to look at a person and this is our methodology and do the assessment
link |
in any basic loaded movement.
link |
So with developing an eye for that, you can actually see and go, OK, we've got a fault
link |
pattern right here in the foot and use a cue or a set of cues.
link |
Doesn't really matter till we find the one that works and bring that.
link |
And now we know we want to simplify this stuff.
link |
I just walk through.
link |
That sounds really complicated.
link |
And it it is if we try to break down and distill it all.
link |
But like, let's just find the basic stuff that gets us in the range, start working and
link |
then find the next as we add load.
link |
Now we find where's our next area that we're starting to fault that and then go there again
link |
So this is what we do, what we teach in our educational platform.
link |
So we are the only I believe everybody wants to do a lot of these like assessments, you
link |
know, on a bench, on a table body.
link |
And it's like, no, let's let's go squat.
link |
Let's go deadlift.
link |
If you do strongman and it's a yoke carry, let's yoke carry because these are basic human
link |
It's not powerlifting like this is how we function.
link |
This is why we we work with 29 of the 30 major league baseball teams and 90 percent of all
link |
professional sports out there in North America.
link |
Sorry, although we do some work with Tour de France and other stuff as well.
link |
And North America, I do mean hockey, too.
link |
But these principles like, you know, if if the Dodgers won't bring us in, they're not
link |
learning how to power lift.
link |
You know, we're going to obviously will probably be do we do a little bit more shoulder focus
link |
than hip focus with their athletes or their coaches.
link |
We're usually working with the coaches, not the athletes.
link |
And so you help them.
link |
And then the same thing on yourself to understand the role that these different muscle groups
link |
So it's all about getting the joints in the appropriate position so that we can do that.
link |
We can manage load so that we're not putting undue stress on the joint.
link |
We're getting the proper link tension.
link |
We're getting these basic fundamental things with the body.
link |
And so the the largest global impact that you will have is through spinal mechanics.
link |
I can't look at a shoulder if I'm not managing this because it's your spine.
link |
So for those who are just listening, like I'm arching and then and then flexing, that's
link |
going to affect shoulder extension, flexion, all these sorts of things.
link |
So it could even affect things down of what's looking at dorsiflexion issues on the foot.
link |
And then that's why I go to the foot next, because it has the second largest global impact.
link |
And then from there, now I'm going to look at the big energy drivers, which is the hip
link |
complex, shoulder complex.
link |
And then we can start looking at kind of the peripheral things.
link |
But usually that's some sort of output of the other.
link |
But the knees, the elbows, the things like that.
link |
So it's all about getting the stack, which affects neurology.
link |
So let's talk in engineering terms.
link |
You get in a car, modern car today, and a lot of them will have this traction control
link |
And there's a big misconception that, you know, I'm out and it's it's snowy or here
link |
in Austin, only rainy.
link |
Well, it probably doesn't rain much, but you're going around a corner, start slipping.
link |
It's like, oh, it's going to send the powers from the wheels that are slipping to the ones
link |
that are gripping and keep me from crashing and dying a fiery death.
link |
Well, that's not how it works.
link |
It's the exact same.
link |
We've got we've got the we've got the tires, which are our foot, you know, the connection
link |
We've got the power driver, which is, you know, the the engine, the transmission delivering,
link |
you know, the power through it.
link |
And we've got the stability or suspension.
link |
And then we have the neurology.
link |
And what the neurology is doing, it's sensing that we don't have good stability or loss
link |
of connection somewhere.
link |
And so I need to save you from crashing and hurting yourself.
link |
And so it goes to the engine and says, let's retard the timing.
link |
Let's reduce the shift patterns.
link |
And we're just reducing the power output.
link |
And that's straight how the human body works.
link |
So when I do this stuff, it's actually affecting that.
link |
I mean, I can take somebody and do some minute changes with the neck position at the thoracic
link |
OK, and immediately see an enhancement in power output.
link |
And I can measure it.
link |
We measure this stuff with velocity devices and see like a 10 percent jump.
link |
And so think about that.
link |
What about all your training through the years where you actually had additional capacity?
link |
But you weren't using it because your traction control was on.
link |
Now you figure this out stuff and now you start stacking it.
link |
Now you can see so much greater.
link |
So it's not just injury prevention.
link |
This is performance and additive performance over time.
link |
And people don't really think about this stuff.
link |
But we can turn that stuff off, which is actually going to also, again, make us make us safer.
link |
But what we want to do is the performance tuned race car.
link |
Do they have a traction control button?
link |
No, they got some amazing tires to grip the ground, a performance tuned suspension, and
link |
that driver is going to put what his foot to the metal.
link |
He's going to put it to the floor.
link |
OK, that's a performance vehicle.
link |
That's what we want to be.
link |
I want to continue on that line.
link |
But first I have to ask, like, how did it feel to accomplish the grand goal?
link |
OK, when you just stand back.
link |
Oh, my thousand pounds for reps.
link |
What it feel like?
link |
Anybody can go watch the video online.
link |
It's well filmed, by the way.
link |
Got me all like excited.
link |
Oh, well, the movies.
link |
So we actually have the final footage of that, the good footage not posted yet.
link |
So it's literally just an Instagram video or a phone video right now.
link |
The only one online.
link |
It's on your YouTube channel.
link |
Came out just time to the music perfectly, too, which is I listened to some odd music,
link |
which there's some reason behind that.
link |
OK, but I liked it, though.
link |
You're saying there's full length footage.
link |
There's a documentary that's it's got a little slowed because of covid, because it's also
link |
a backstory of the eagle and the dragon.
link |
My book about why I do kind of the things that I've done in my life or that's what I'm
link |
assuming the director is working on.
link |
I don't really have the control of the movie, right?
link |
But but OK, but the video's OK.
link |
It was overwhelming to have worked so intensely and so long and hard at something that pushed
link |
every ounce of me to the limit that and and I did it.
link |
I'm getting a little emotional.
link |
I did exactly what I said I was going to fucking do like and it was it was overpowering.
link |
I mean, I was just crying uncontrollably just with a mixture of I.
link |
I don't know what the mixture of emotions is hard to explain because it was the completion
link |
It was a new phase of my life.
link |
I mean, there's so many things here.
link |
So when you set an impossible goal and you accomplished it, one, two is like on the broader
link |
humanity aspect, like how many humans in this world accomplish perfection in a particular
link |
direction required to do this?
link |
So like you're basically representing like one little like like little glimmer of excellence
link |
of the human spirit.
link |
There's always more.
link |
So understand this is a basic fundamental.
link |
You can always do better.
link |
There is no such thing as perfection.
link |
You could always there is always more.
link |
So anytime you reach something, any amazing workout or accomplishment in life, could you
link |
have put more into it?
link |
But here's the thing.
link |
I left on my terms.
link |
I said, this is it.
link |
I'm going to work towards I've been training for 30 years.
link |
I'm going to do this thing that is like I couldn't even say that I was going to do it
link |
I'm going to do it and then I'm done.
link |
I didn't leave from an injury.
link |
I did exactly what I said.
link |
I went to a level that I.
link |
I left on my terms and that's unique because that's usually not the case.
link |
Sometimes you kind of either taper out or it doesn't matter.
link |
I'm talking like anything in life in general, right?
link |
Like you taper out, you fail, you hurt, like you lose.
link |
Like something, you know, you roll into retirement.
link |
You accomplish something truly great and you walked away on your own terms.
link |
Is there a sadness completing something like that?
link |
Because it's in one perspective, the greatest thing you'll ever do.
link |
And like when you accomplish such a great height, in some sense, you have to face your
link |
mortality at that point.
link |
So good question, but it is certainly not the greatest thing that I'll ever do.
link |
The greatest physical street I'll ever do.
link |
The greatest physical street, yes.
link |
But that was an expression of some of my values and the way that I want to live.
link |
It was a way of expressing it.
link |
So understanding that is hugely fundamental because we do see so many athletes get to
link |
the end of a career and then they fall into a depressive state and struggle with drugs,
link |
alcohol, depression, and so on because they lost how they identified themselves and trying
link |
to figure out where to turn, what to do.
link |
But a big central component of their identity is lost.
link |
So I knew that this was one way to express that and my grand goals have shifted.
link |
They're shifted to other outlets that allow me to express that.
link |
Like my companies, Kabuki Strength, I'm going to change the face of fitness as well as all
link |
the way through with its integration with clinical medicine and telemedicine.
link |
And I got another five years before even people see what I'm working on, five years in right
link |
now because I had to invent equipment, I have to develop methodologies that we're talking
link |
I had to do this stuff that ground layer wasn't done to create a cohesive ecosystem of training
link |
methodology tied to the tools that we're using today, to the environment, tied to the clinical
link |
practice assessment, tied to the interaction between all those and how that actually needs
link |
to be reframed because so much of this is broken.
link |
But there is sadness.
link |
I won't deny that.
link |
And the sadness comes in the singularity of focus that I had at that time, the being in
link |
Not necessarily doing it, but like having being in this place that the rest of the world
link |
kind of fell away from me in those final phases to have something so intense, to have a team
link |
around me so focused on supporting and like it took me a couple of months after that squad.
link |
But I finally one day I woke up and I was like, oh, welcome back to the world.
link |
Like I was in such a mental fog.
link |
Like I was, it took me a while to climb out of that.
link |
But that space, that level of intensity and drive and living and being in that space,
link |
But I also, I can't continue that.
link |
I couldn't continue.
link |
Like there's a point of like, you push it so hard, the level to try to go from there
link |
is not acceptable for what you, the impacts that'll have on your life or how you want
link |
And it was taking away those final, like I had to do extreme things and live in an extreme
link |
You're just a genius in this whole space of strength and health and almost like biology
link |
that this strength feat is just one representation of that.
link |
But this particular strength, it required that kind of singular focus, which I think,
link |
I don't know, there's something beautiful about that singular focus that's often only
link |
truly perfected in athletics.
link |
I see it with the greatest Olympic athletes as well.
link |
The kind of singular focus required there is incredible.
link |
It's somehow some of the most beautiful things that humans can do.
link |
And it's not just that thing.
link |
So that's the thing.
link |
It's like, oh, that must be it.
link |
That singularity of focus, it's not like, here's it, because it covers a vast array
link |
Like I was working with people, you know, all, well, yeah, all around North America.
link |
I wouldn't say anybody around the globe, but professionals coming in, working on different
link |
aspects of rehab and, and recovery.
link |
And like, I mean, I'm tapping all sorts of stuff in so many platforms from nutrition
link |
to drugs to, again, like, you know, various Chinese medicine, you know, as far as, you
link |
But also the humans in your life, just love and positivity and just inspiration, all those
link |
I mean, you probably would have done much more if you went outside North America and
link |
talked to some Russians, just between you and I.
link |
They give you some, I don't know, there's some incredible strength athletes in Eastern
link |
I've got the best one coming in September to get fixed.
link |
So what do you mean by fixed?
link |
So I'm not sure what his particular issues are, but he has held the all time world record
link |
repeatedly for a long time and he hasn't competed for some time.
link |
And he just reached out saying he would like to come and have me take a look and see if
link |
I can get him fixed because he needs to return.
link |
So it's more injury centric versus like form and a fundamental centric combination of everything.
link |
Everybody always wants to focus on the output.
link |
How do you give me the fix for that?
link |
But it ties right back into all those other things, right?
link |
But yeah, the Eastern block continued to be a dominant force in regards to athletics and
link |
strength athletes without a doubt.
link |
Some of my big rivals in my competitive days were, that's who it was.
link |
Rivalry brings out the best in us.
link |
Can you tell me the story of your childhood?
link |
It's definitely outside the scope of the norm.
link |
Not today, maybe not 150 or 200 years ago, but my parents, highly intelligent people
link |
coming out of the Bay area.
link |
My mom was going to school to be a chemical engineer.
link |
She was a top, top student athlete, graduated out of her school.
link |
My father was a member of Mensa and my stepfather was just a genius, but not able to really
link |
function in society.
link |
But my mom was, she had some demons and some other stuff and just, she just said one day,
link |
she's like, I just don't want to be part of society.
link |
She still isn't, lives out in the desert, but has her minds, but she wanted to figure
link |
out a way to make a life outside of that.
link |
And so that's where we ended up is up in the mountains in Northern California.
link |
And a lot of that was them trying to get into successfully growing marijuana, which back
link |
in that wasn't legal back then, highly illegal.
link |
And in fact, those areas were, some of the areas where we lived were quite dangerous.
link |
So there's a documentary Murder Mountain that came out recently.
link |
If you watch that, you'll tie into my book, just the understanding of the stuff that I
link |
was talking about dealing with serial killers, human trafficking, police corruption, murderers,
link |
like just how real that stuff is if it doesn't capture you from the book.
link |
The book, by the way, is the Eagle and the Dragon.
link |
I'm a terrible salesperson.
link |
But a good, it's a good title.
link |
I don't know if you came up with it, but, so yeah, we'll talk about that anyway.
link |
We're living by a stream off a meadow.
link |
There's no roads into where you have to hike in.
link |
And we've got beams lashed into the trees up above us because that's where our bedding
link |
Cause there's rattlesnake dens all around and six years old, I'm being taught how to
link |
capture and handle live rattlesnakes because that's what I need to do to be safe.
link |
And you can imagine six years old, sitting there with a live rattlesnake in your hand,
link |
grabbing it, you know, by the side of the head, controlling so it can't, can't bite
link |
And it's just wrapping itself around your arm and you're staring at like, it's only
link |
intent is right then is to kill you.
link |
Like that's it, right?
link |
You want to take a bath.
link |
It's filling up the jug in the stream and setting it out on the rocks during the, during
link |
So you dump it over your head and you know, not all the living was that way.
link |
You know, good part was similar to that tent living, living in a 16 foot trailer with a
link |
family of six, which is not much bigger than the space that we're sitting here.
link |
So we're talking hard winters with feet of snow on the ground, nowhere to go.
link |
I'm living in the back of the pickup truck and just a standard sleeping bag that we get
link |
from the Salvation Army, not the, not the blow zero.
link |
So I'm I'm, I'm not sleeping well.
link |
There's living in homes that were maybe condemned.
link |
There's no, no doors even on them, no electricity or running water or one or the other or both.
link |
And sometimes a little bit better by the time we got to high school we had a mobile home.
link |
So my stepfather had won a disability payment cause he had a broken arm that whole time
link |
from a accident a long time ago and finally got an award and got a down payment on this
link |
mobile home that didn't have again, doors on the inside.
link |
It did have running water, did have electricity, didn't have a kitchen, you know, the windows
link |
would crank close and open, but they wouldn't close all the way.
link |
So the trim them in with a plastic to be able to try to protect from the elements.
link |
That was my environment, like learning how to forge for mushrooms.
link |
I mean, there were summers I would send and my parents would be out, they were in the
link |
drug trade earlier.
link |
We got taken by the, by the police and put into foster care for a while, which ties into
link |
some of the stories with human trafficking.
link |
And honestly it's in my book, but it's really hard for me to talk about that stuff and obviously
link |
not all that's in the book.
link |
So but they got us back and we moved to Oregon and they stayed out of the drug trade from
link |
that time to ensure that they didn't lose us again, but quickly we kind of fell back
link |
into the same thing.
link |
So at that point it was learning about geology and starting to do mining and firewood cutting,
link |
but mostly the mining because Pat's broken arm chainsaw made a little tough.
link |
If you remember just the sequence of moments, do you, are you haunted by the darker moments
link |
of your childhood?
link |
Do you remember moments of simple joy and happiness?
link |
Outside of the living around dangerous people and the interactions that came from that,
link |
Like we were a cohesive unit battling against the world together.
link |
We spent all our time together, work, play.
link |
I was helping raise my, my siblings or I was working with them and you know, it was a constant,
link |
like I said, we were very physically active.
link |
So you know, I had that in my upbringing, um, that plug for my shoe company, barefoot,
link |
B E A R I ran around the wilderness and bare feet all the time, you know, but it was, I
link |
had a lot of great moments and I'm thankful for a lot of that childhood once we take out
link |
the trauma and the other stuff associated with it, right?
link |
And so the connection that I have with my sisters, um, is, is, is huge.
link |
Um, that goes a bit further to cause I am kind of like a, a little bit of a father figure
link |
because I was at home raising them and then later I took custody of them, uh, while I
link |
was going to school because the environment at home deteriorated further.
link |
Their stepfather, stepfather, like I said, was, he wasn't capable of managing life.
link |
And uh, my mom had a mental breakdown and took off to Montana and he descended into
link |
madness even worse, uh, actually took my, my 13 year old sister and kicked her out in
link |
the middle of winter, a couple of feet of snow on the ground because he thought she
link |
stole his favorite cereal bowl, um, type.
link |
So that's when I took in and I was going to college, putting myself through college and
link |
I started taking custody of my sisters and raising them.
link |
So anyway, we're still like very, very tight family.
link |
Um, it took, there was a few years later in life, like that the connection with my mother
link |
was kind of broken.
link |
Um, I didn't speak to her for years because of her basically abandoning my sisters and
link |
me having to come in.
link |
But that we've worked through that as best we can.
link |
So you anger on your part?
link |
It wasn't, there might've been some anger.
link |
Did you always love her?
link |
And I'm so, she's taught me basically everything I know about strength and perseverance and
link |
living life on your terms and being able to create that.
link |
And so much of what I am is from that, right?
link |
We've all had to learn to be okay with the way she is because she is just blunt, but
link |
you know, she's the one that figured out that the human trafficking situation and got, uh,
link |
got the da involved and got all the, she's the one that I've learned a lot from her.
link |
Did you inherit some of the demons?
link |
Oh, most certainly.
link |
And I, it's something I've continued like in my father's side of has been really tough
link |
on that because some of it is just based genetic as well.
link |
So my, my stepfather made I think six or seven attempts on his life during his lifetime.
link |
One of those in front of me, uh, his mother blew her head off with a shotgun.
link |
Uh, her brother jumped out a window in LA, uh, their father did something similar and
link |
I don't know how far back it goes because there is no family except for me and my children.
link |
You spoke about going through depression yourself.
link |
Can you, um, talk about some of the darker moments of that?
link |
Have you ever like many in your family, have you ever considered suicide?
link |
You've achieved a lot of exceptional things in your life.
link |
Can you talk about those early days of depression and how you overcame it?
link |
So the things that I did that people give me accolades for are the things that I did
link |
selfishly to save myself.
link |
The things like taking custody of my sisters, being the person that everybody around, you
link |
know, the, the important people relied on the fact that I had to step to the plate and
link |
be present and be that person because if I failed, they failed.
link |
They would be like the people that I grew up with that are dead or in prison or on drugs
link |
and they're either way to one of those, right?
link |
That's where everybody ended and I wasn't going to let that happen.
link |
What about saving yourself?
link |
And so that's how in those early days, that's how I did it.
link |
Not saying it's the best approach, but it was survivor mentality.
link |
It was, I can't selfishly do that because I have them to take care of, right?
link |
And then that continued where I would keep putting myself in these leadership roles or
link |
other things and just always being this person that was at the center, at the hub that forced
link |
And so it's only in the more recent, you know, last decade or so that I have had to really
link |
learn how to come and start confronting some of those demons and think, man, why is the
link |
guy so successful?
link |
Like, I mean, and we haven't talked about all the stuff that I've done, but like I've
link |
seen a lot of success in both business, leadership, athletics, academics, entrepreneurship, all
link |
these sorts of things, right?
link |
But if it wasn't for having kids and the same being in the position, I wouldn't be here.
link |
And that's just, that's the reality of it.
link |
And I'm learning to come and manage those as best I can.
link |
Learning to meditate into those things and really feel what the driver is so I can get
link |
to those root understanding and having some guidance doing so.
link |
Like if you've got mental health issues, this isn't something that you need to tackle on
link |
Like having a professional that can help guide you on that introspective journey is something
link |
like, it's not like, hey, I'm big, tough guy.
link |
I can handle everything.
link |
That's fascinating that you saved yourself.
link |
That's quite powerful to save yourself by having others depend on you.
link |
And so you can't fail.
link |
You can't fuck it up.
link |
And that's a reason to keep moving forward.
link |
But on the flip side, that's not addressing the darkness.
link |
And it probably not a sustainable strategy either, right?
link |
So I recognize these things.
link |
Perhaps it is sustainable.
link |
Perhaps that, I mean, there's something beautiful about giving yourself basically in service
link |
of others and thereby creating purpose.
link |
And then it's almost like fake it till you make it and then you make it eventually.
link |
That is purpose though.
link |
I mean, you have to, to me, life is about taking your cup and how you choose to pour
link |
How you choose to give.
link |
What is your purpose?
link |
What is that connection with everybody around you?
link |
This is, that's the intent.
link |
That's what life is about.
link |
How are you going to help those around you?
link |
How are you going to help the world?
link |
Your purpose is right here, figuring out what this is and then how to do that.
link |
But at the same time, you can't let that run dry.
link |
So you have to make sure that you're filling that up.
link |
That's the other side, right?
link |
That's the other side.
link |
We'll return to your engineering degree, which you're obviously scientifically engineering
link |
minded, which is fascinating.
link |
Your book is titled the Eagle and the Dragon.
link |
What do the Eagle and the Dragon symbolize?
link |
They're pretty big symbols for me.
link |
In fact, that covers my entire body as a tattoo.
link |
So the first one I had done at around 19 years old.
link |
And so this is, or started at 19.
link |
It's an eagle that covers my entire front, you know, my stomach, rib cage, and one that
link |
was on my back that covered most of my back.
link |
And there's chained at the, well, at the claw, I guess.
link |
And the chain wraps down around and attaches to my ankle and there's a shackle there.
link |
And so this was something that I had done at that age because it was, to me, it was
link |
a representation of your potential, your strengths, your abilities that you can fly to whatever
link |
height that you want in this world.
link |
The only thing holding you back at the end of the day is yourself.
link |
And this was, I hadn't necessarily accomplished a whole lot at that time.
link |
I mean, I was valedictorian for high school, small high school.
link |
Does that even count?
link |
I was a state level wrestler.
link |
This was my belief.
link |
And you sense that there was a potential in you and the only thing that could stop you
link |
from realizing that potential was yourself.
link |
That's a heck of a tattoo to get, by the way, at 19, but 40 hours went into that thing.
link |
It shows you got some guts.
link |
And then the next tattoo, so I only have two, I had done in 2015, 2016 when I, so at this
link |
point in my life, so I had done that.
link |
I had flown to whatever heights, right?
link |
So I had, I had proven to myself and maybe done what I thought I needed to do to show
link |
the world that this poor kid from the sticks, this kid growing up in the mountains with
link |
nothing could achieve the American dream.
link |
I was a corporate executive sought after that I'd come in, I'd fix companies, I'd turn around
link |
and prep them for sale.
link |
I'd take a company and grow it from a regional to a national to a global presence.
link |
I did this in the automotive manufacturing, aerospace manufacturing, high tech, heavy
link |
industry and I had a house with a white picket fence.
link |
I was a successful athlete with all time world records.
link |
I owned a gym on the side where I coached people and I had a comfortable marriage that
link |
everything was hunky dory with no arguments at home and I walked away from all of it.
link |
I left everything behind except for my kids.
link |
I wanted to chase what I was meant to do and chase what I was capable of doing.
link |
I wanted to become a better version of myself, but very intentfully and that's what I did.
link |
I sold, I had multiple homes, sold my homes.
link |
I cashed in all my retirement that I'd earned for 20, nearly 20 years and I lost all that.
link |
I leveraged myself millions of dollars of personal debt so that if I failed, there was
link |
Even going back to that old career that I did well, I'd be living in an apartment the
link |
rest of my life paying it off.
link |
Old question, people questioned me at the time because I had a comfortable, easy marriage
link |
and I chose to ask for a divorce and I ended up living in an apartment for a couple of
link |
years with no income, selling off every last thing that I had except for my two vehicles
link |
that I built and with my kids and I started my businesses to help people live a better
link |
quality of life, to get them out of pain, to help them live better through strength,
link |
to realize that stress, demand, those things, they don't have to be the thing that if you
link |
look back, made you had the bad back, made you have the bad deeds, but they do the opposite.
link |
They get you out of pain and then I started working my book to hit on those other things,
link |
the mental, the emotional, maybe even spiritual, I don't touch on that one too much in there,
link |
but it's all the same, that things that happen around you, to you, like maybe they're bad,
link |
I can't take away that, but why can't you use what you have of it to become a stronger
link |
and better person, to become more resilient, to be able to take the things that you don't
link |
know that are coming in the future and so this is very intentful and that's what the
link |
second long winded answer in your question here.
link |
The dragon is an Ouroboros and so it is, it circles my entire upper body, my shoulders,
link |
my back, my chest, everything, it's right here, there's this big dragon head and its
link |
tail is right there in its mouth that's eating itself and it may sound a bit graphic or whatever,
link |
but it is, it's the eating of the old becoming the new, it is the purposeful reinvention
link |
of oneself, it is the deciding, not realizing just your potential, but deciding specifically
link |
who you want to be in this fucking world and becoming that person.
link |
Can you comment on the value and the power of putting a flame to your old life, your
link |
old self, just destroying all of it as you walk into the new life, did you have to do
link |
I don't recommend this, by the way, because when you put yourself in no way out, there
link |
is no way out, okay?
link |
You got to really, but I can be an overconfident individual at times and I live through extremes.
link |
I think it's a great way of actually finding your real values and how you want to live,
link |
honestly, to chase having absolutely perfect squat technique, but chase putting every freaking
link |
thing that you've got in it, which most people would say, those are opposite, those are diametrically
link |
I wanted a better home life, I wanted to do more in the world through my work and the
link |
burning the bridges mentality is not necessarily the best.
link |
There was some temperament in that though, because I was slow to make the shift for a
link |
long time because I'd been thinking about doing it, but I was thinking about doing it
link |
in a healthcare perspective.
link |
I'm going to go back to school to be a surgeon or a physical therapist or a Cairo because
link |
that's where all my research and stuff was in this human movement and rehab and recovery.
link |
This is the mentors that I've been developing were the best in the world in these things,
link |
in these disciplines, those were my friends, but I wasn't able to compromise my family's
link |
certain quality of life.
link |
I wanted to keep that.
link |
So it was slow and hard for me to make that transition, but I didn't do it until I had
link |
a platform built enough that those first few years I did have an income, I was able to
link |
make enough from the business until it grew so fast that I needed so much more needed
link |
The living in the apartment piece and doing all that, that was actually a couple of years
link |
into that process, maybe like two years.
link |
I'm with you on that.
link |
So I'm actually going through that very process now.
link |
I put everything, I quit everything, gave away everything and starting a new and unfortunately
link |
or fortunately this podcast somehow became quite popular.
link |
So it's getting in the way of my burning everything to the ground.
link |
But in that it's a source of joy.
link |
But the main thing I'm after is the similar project as you is building a business sense
link |
So this, this is the point I want to drive home right now, right now.
link |
Because when I say burn, I learned that burning the bridges works because that's how I had
link |
to succeed when I was earlier.
link |
The bridges weren't burnt.
link |
They didn't exist.
link |
There was no couch to go home to.
link |
There was no, there was no fall back plan and it forced me and gave me the confidence
link |
to know that I can pull it off.
link |
But I don't encourage people because there's so much out there of this hustle porn and
link |
other stuff going just grind, just go after it, get in and start your, like you'll get
link |
there and it's all about the output to make money, to be somebody, to do this.
link |
And I'll tell you what, that is some short term motivation right there.
link |
I feel like dropping a few swear words, but
link |
You're always welcome.
link |
We've already done a few, so we'll bounce it out.
link |
That is short term.
link |
That is not going to keep you going.
link |
This need, if you're going to go that approach, it needs to be because this is your North
link |
There's going to be so much hard work.
link |
There's going to be years of just pushing through where your question, not only is everybody
link |
around you questioning you and your family's questioning you, you're questioning yourself
link |
going, man, I don't know if I can pull this off.
link |
You're going to be stressed.
link |
You're going to be pulled to the max.
link |
If somebody comes up to me and says, should I start a business?
link |
I'm going to say no.
link |
And oh, you're supposed to motivate me.
link |
If you need me to motivate you, this is the wrong damn approach for you.
link |
This is going to be hard.
link |
This is going to be harder than you expect, even with me telling you this.
link |
And so it better damn well be worth it.
link |
This better be your North fucking star.
link |
This better live and be a way for you to be able to articulate or realize those values
link |
that you want to live.
link |
This isn't something to make money.
link |
This is a way for you to live the life and be able to share the values that you have
link |
And that's what it is.
link |
And if you don't have that, which is going to give you joy, then we can walk away.
link |
This is not some way to make some money and be known.
link |
I mean, this, this includes both like simple day to day joy and also deep meaning the whole
link |
It allows you to overcome all the, all the pain along the way.
link |
But I got to say, I mean, it's a difficult thing because you run a business.
link |
This podcast and a lot of things I do research wise is full of joy, but it's simple.
link |
Running a business is hard.
link |
So it's something that I'm very hesitant about in that to almost push back a little bit.
link |
I think if I do get the guts to start the business, it will not be because I'm not choosing
link |
a more joyful life because I'm already truly happy.
link |
The reason I'll choose is because I just can't help it.
link |
There's this, I've always had this dream and I know it's going to lead to suffering and
link |
I know it's going to be a life that has less happiness in it.
link |
As sad as this to say, but it won't be, it won't be less happiness because we talk about
link |
this cup and where you choose to pour it and what you choose to do with it.
link |
And when you look back on things, the things that are going to give you the most joy, the
link |
most proud, the things that are going to stand out in your life that you really remember
link |
are going to be those days and your, those years you struggle, you're going to look back
link |
on 10 years later and go, fuck, those were the glory days.
link |
Those were the glory days.
link |
And it won't feel like it at the time.
link |
So that's what life's made of.
link |
And so this is your, this is your opportunity.
link |
So right now you've got this, when you think about it, you've got this little thing twisting
link |
up in your gut, right?
link |
It's like, it's a mixture of anxiety and fear as well as excitement in that is that's your
link |
signal that this is your opportunity for that personal growth, the challenge yourself.
link |
This is your going for a run or working out in the heat.
link |
It's it's those things.
link |
It is your opportunity to go back.
link |
Maybe it even fails.
link |
Maybe it even fails, but by turning into that, you're going to learn so much and it's going
link |
to make you so much better.
link |
And it's the path that you should take when you have this stuff rolling around in there.
link |
And I don't, it could just be a hard conversation with your partner or your boss.
link |
It could be taking on a project that, you know, you know, that your boss has thrown
link |
out to the team and you're like, Oh, I'm going to hide in the back.
link |
I don't want that one.
link |
And it's like, maybe, maybe you do.
link |
Maybe it's going back to school.
link |
Maybe it's making that career move that you always wanted, but you're just a, you're just
link |
afraid of all these things.
link |
Those are your opportunity for you to turn into that.
link |
It is your workout.
link |
It is your practice because if you don't, you'll get soft and who knows what's coming
link |
and you're not going to be ready for it.
link |
And it's going to run right over the top of you because you're going to be weak.
link |
You're going to be soft.
link |
There's some aspect in which choosing that hard path is actually the, the way to arrive
link |
at the richest kind of happiness, the greatest fulfillment.
link |
That's the funny thing about just the human.
link |
Just make sure you're filling the cup as you're going through it and not pouring it all out.
link |
So that's the part to figure out, right?
link |
Well, life is short anyway.
link |
Eventually, eventually the cup will be empty.
link |
So maybe time the refilling of the cup correctly so you maximize the little time you got.
link |
Let me talk to you about strength a little bit first, high level.
link |
What are the differences in the different disciplines of strength?
link |
So power lifting, we talked about maybe just to clarify for people, power lifting, Olympic
link |
lifting, just regular gym fitness, bodybuilding, doing curls in front of the mirror for hours
link |
What's, what's the difference between all of these?
link |
Oh, and also strong man.
link |
Every one of those, as far as the athletic disciplines are different qualities.
link |
So we want to think about things as terms of quality.
link |
So there's strength, there's power, there's endurance, there's the ability to be coordinated
link |
There's all these things and they're different, they're different qualities.
link |
So your training as it relates to that is how you cycle in the development of those qualities.
link |
What we want to think about is there's a lot of different frames of thought, some very
link |
classical, maybe not classical Russian approach because there's a lot of different approach
link |
from the Eastern block, but one of the ones is developing all the qualities at once, focusing
link |
on building those more of a periodization effect would be focusing on one quality at
link |
a time or one quality while maintaining other qualities and then shifting that around.
link |
So it's just going to be a little different based on what the output is and what the desired.
link |
So like powerlifting is actually, power is the wrong word.
link |
There's actually no power in it.
link |
It's just brute, it's, it's strength, um, application of force, um, Olympic lifting
link |
would actually be a better name for powerlifting because that is more explosive development.
link |
There's um, strongman is again, now we're getting a little bit more athletic.
link |
It's equipment based on the implements and stuff that are used, how fast you can move
link |
your feet and run mixed with more endurance, but still very strength focused.
link |
And there's some things with strongman that is straight.
link |
Like each one of these is very also focused on different genetic dispositions.
link |
So actually if you look at the history of sports, you'll find that they're a lot of
link |
times based on different populations and it sounds like it's very unPC, but like a Highland
link |
games, um, they've got deep, deeper hip sockets that are shallow.
link |
So you're going to see a lot of short hip hinge movements like the, the caber toss and
link |
Muay Thai wrestling, they've got a completely different hip joint.
link |
And so strongman itself is going to be for very large frame individuals.
link |
If you're not well over six foot and a large person, you're probably not going to perform
link |
It's sub six foot have ever done well at strongman just because it's, it's leverage based, right?
link |
Um, Olympic lifting, we see consistently in, in Europe, uh, the, the history tells us a
link |
high level of hip, uh, and back issues because of the depth that that hip socket has to go
link |
in to be able to complete that lift.
link |
And so you're going to see issues with populations that don't have the ability to do that.
link |
So, so we've talked a little bit about training as well as disposition.
link |
So, and also cross head fits into that, that's more like strongman, but for a wider variety
link |
of bodies, I suppose.
link |
And definitely more metabolic conditioning focus than the, than the strength aspect of
link |
Um, and, and, and conditioning is an interesting thing too.
link |
So that quality in my opinion can be developed a lot faster, but kind of peaks much faster
link |
Um, where strength, we can continue to add and add and add over time.
link |
Uh, so it's for me, like for conditioning with any strength athlete, I don't like to
link |
spend as much time on that.
link |
So I'll cycle, uh, the conditioning work for our strength athletes and then taper that
link |
off leading into meat.
link |
So the more metabolic work, that means the more capacity in strength training that you
link |
can accomplish, which is the goal, um, and recover from.
link |
But then as we lead to a competition, we want to spend more time on recovering from that.
link |
So we have to pull things out.
link |
So we'd pull out less.
link |
So like a typical approach would be like taking a six week cycle for conditioning and ramping,
link |
ramping up over three weeks periods time, then dropping back down again and ramping
link |
up and being slightly offset by like a week or two from your strength peaks so that you've
link |
actually tapered the week prior in your conditioning work to your strength work.
link |
So we're not hitting conditioning hard all the time, which is a common, common, uh, misstep
link |
that people make is going, well, I need conditioning.
link |
So they just hammer that at a base level over the top instead of cycling that.
link |
If we talk about powerlifting in terms of regimen, in terms of exercise, in terms of
link |
the process, the wood consistent with what, is there something to be said about general
link |
qualities of the consistency of the regimen required to get strong?
link |
So let's talk about some training principles as a whole.
link |
And this will, I think this will break down what you're, what you're one, the more work
link |
that we can fit into a given time, the more progress we're going to make.
link |
But that doesn't mean doing the max amount of work possible at any given time.
link |
So we know that we're always to, to, to accomplish more, we're always going to have more.
link |
And there's a certain ceiling that you're going to hit that you're not going to be able
link |
So you want to start and get the most amount of results that you can with the least amount
link |
of work, because you're going to have to do it again, like this stair step over and over
link |
year, decade, so on.
link |
So when people is a big miss, people got, they look at a Chico program from Russia or
link |
so on and they go, I'm going to follow this.
link |
It's like that was specifically written for somebody with 20 years of experience that's
link |
already built the capacities to be at that level.
link |
So it's all about building that work capacity.
link |
So how much work can you give in a given time?
link |
So now we want to look at some research is it relates to injuries because injuries are
link |
going to be a big driver over time of what holds you back.
link |
So when we talk consistency, training hard for three years, five years, it's going to
link |
But what we find is a lot of people train really hard for nine months, have to slow
link |
back for a month, get back into it and miss another week because, and so on.
link |
They're always like this little nagging, that little nagging.
link |
And so it's pretty clear in the research we want to, we're looking at when we're stair
link |
stepping this stuff, we're looking at acute and chronic loading.
link |
So some fancy words for average and like what's happening right now.
link |
So this given week would be our acute, chronic would be what is our average loading let's
link |
say over the last six months.
link |
So the more that we can move the chronic loading up, the more work we're getting done on as
link |
a whole over time, we're going to get stronger.
link |
The way that we build the capacity to do that is having spikes in acute loading.
link |
Now as we do this, the, the acute loading, if it spikes more than 10, maybe 15% from
link |
what the chronic loading has been, that accounts for 80% of injuries out there.
link |
So it's not actually the movement quality or this misstep or the other may usually happens
link |
about four or five, six weeks later, it's like, Oh, this nagging and then it gets worse.
link |
And then now you got to, you got to do some rehab, your training sessions aren't as good
link |
So now we're starting to look at this.
link |
It's like, I want to do the, I want to do the least amount of work where I can still
link |
I want to be able to have spikes in my weekly demand that don't go above 10 to 15% of what
link |
I've been averaging for the last month.
link |
But every time I do a spike, my, my average goes up, right?
link |
And then that becomes very particular also when you take, when you do take plantain time
link |
So a lot of people, uh, training session, maybe they're doing a five week block with
link |
a, uh, a deload week or you go on vacation for a week or any of those things that were
link |
What does that do to your average and chronic loading?
link |
It brings it down.
link |
And then what does the person want to do when they come back, make up for it.
link |
Now they have a huge spike above five weeks later, we're dealing with all this elbow,
link |
this wrist, whatever's kind of bothering me and now you're not performing as much.
link |
So these are some really fundamental pieces of, of, of, of training.
link |
And then now we can start overlaying the qualities that we're trying to develop that we were
link |
talking about earlier.
link |
So now it's, let's talk about my deadlift, my thousand pound deadlift.
link |
We'll talk about the training cycles for both the thousand deadlift and squat.
link |
So backing up a year out from the deadlift, knowing I was training at the time, heavy
link |
deadlifts once a week and usually it was two of those sessions a month were really heavy
link |
and the others weren't.
link |
And it's like, okay, how can we get this up to where I'm deadlifting twice a week?
link |
Because that's where I want to be, uh, to be able to accomplish this.
link |
I need to be loading about that much with frequency, with a certain volume to be able
link |
to accomplish this goal.
link |
We're not going to go through all the math and stuff like that and how that's arrived,
link |
but there is math behind this.
link |
And so instead of just like, oh, well, let's start deadlifting twice a week.
link |
So we start and we take the one session that we've got and we split it, part of it, take
link |
part of it away and put it in the second half of the week.
link |
So the total volume is still the same.
link |
And then, um, we start adding some volume, but I'm doing it at a off a block so that
link |
the actual load is accumulative load is less cause I have less range of motion.
link |
And then we start building that closer to the ground, closer to the ground and so on.
link |
And now we start getting to where I'm almost doing two sessions, full sessions a week.
link |
And then we start adding a little bit of load.
link |
And so at my level, this isn't talking about adding another set or another day a week.
link |
We're talking like in my squat, it might be one rep instead of doing three sets of three
link |
at one week, I do two doubles or two triples, then two doubles to give me one more rep.
link |
And so we're doing that from one week to the next.
link |
And that's a cycle training cycle.
link |
It might be five, six weeks and then so on and the next one and slowly bringing that
link |
So the last phases of the squat, for example, we took the average loading every week.
link |
So my, of my heavy sets.
link |
Once we developed all this stuff over the last year to get to this point, now it is
link |
taking and going, okay, my average load this week is eight reps at nine hundred and fifty
link |
And then the next week, let's get it to nine, nine fifty seven, nine sixty three.
link |
And this was pretty aggressive working up to where my average loading the final that
link |
the final was nine hundred and eighty five pounds average load for eight to nine reps.
link |
And that's what I said.
link |
This is the intense part.
link |
This is the day of was much easier that week over week is pretty brutal.
link |
May not sound well, you're just squatting.
link |
And now let's back up.
link |
Let's look at the quality development.
link |
So a year out from the squat, obviously, I've been working on developing axial load capacity,
link |
my capacity to withstand load from top to bottom.
link |
So I like thinking about things and movement vectors.
link |
So this vector is an axial loaded vector is the hardest to recover from that was axial.
link |
Like is deadlift, are they both or both?
link |
So a horizontal front to back would be like a row or a press.
link |
Why is the axial hardest to recover because it's entire body, the entire entire body,
link |
just anything that is that taxes the the spinal mechanics?
link |
I don't I could tell you my beliefs.
link |
OK, we can just keep the discussion on that short like that.
link |
Well, so we start looking at those different vectors that we're training in.
link |
And so this is why this is important to understand.
link |
So I'm not just getting into nuance here.
link |
So, hey, squatting is going to make me make me jump further because it's legs.
link |
Well, squatting is an axial load vector and jumping is a vector this way.
link |
So actually, hip thrust would help with your and this is proven in science with your forward
link |
They're both working similar muscles.
link |
The glute extension, but they're working it in those different platforms.
link |
So it's really important to understand because people don't understand.
link |
I'm building my work capacity by doing sled process.
link |
You're not developing your work capacity for squatting.
link |
Most movements, even ones as holistic as a as a squat, require specialization.
link |
You can't get strong at the squat by doing it.
link |
You're going to have some carry over, right, obviously.
link |
But because taking an untrained person that hasn't done it is still not going to do as
link |
good as somebody that's done nonspecific work, but done work.
link |
So but yes, for the most part, to get truly strong, you need to specialize.
link |
So but not all the time.
link |
So now we talk about quality.
link |
So and if we specialize in the same thing too long, we stagnate because the body adapts
link |
to a certain point and just can't make progress.
link |
So we wanted to save the actual squatting in the pattern with the bar that I was doing
link |
So starting a year out, I started doing work front squatting like a squat axial loaded
link |
pattern and worked on maximizing that up.
link |
Then I started shifting to doing transformer bar squat.
link |
It's this bar I developed that actually change manipulates spinal mechanics.
link |
So I started loading in these more forward positions and being able again.
link |
So now I'm getting closer than a front squat, but not quite squatting.
link |
And then I would start adjusting that bar every training cycle to closer to a squat
link |
toaster to a squat till it finally was right.
link |
What's the difference between a front squat and a regular like a back squat?
link |
Like in terms of the stress on the body, the mechanics, was there something interesting
link |
to be said about like how fundamentally different are they?
link |
So it's interesting.
link |
People think about the weight and imposition to them like, oh, the bars in front of me,
link |
the bars behind me, which is not the case.
link |
The bar is above your midfoot.
link |
The load is above your midfoot.
link |
So we're actually manipulating the spine behind the bar.
link |
So we're causing spinal uprighting behind the bar, getting in a more erect position,
link |
which is going to change the relationship of the hip angle.
link |
It's going to change our ability to maintain the spine.
link |
It's going to change how much the core comes in, how hard it is to maintain that sternum
link |
to diaphragm relationship that we talked about.
link |
All this stuff starts changing.
link |
So the bar stays in the same place.
link |
Bar is still behind you, but the load moves around.
link |
But we're actually manipulating the spine around the load.
link |
We can tailor it to an athlete, which is great when you got a seven foot plus tall baseball
link |
player or basketball player.
link |
That's why we work with all these teams.
link |
Anyway, so it's like you're taking something and getting closer and closer to it.
link |
At the same time, we're looking at the quality.
link |
So like I needed to be able to really hold this torso position with the weight moving
link |
Unlike the deadlift, the ability to manage this TL position becomes much more challenging.
link |
So that was also why I was choosing the transformer bar, because it actually challenges that more
link |
in those big forward positions.
link |
I was also working on my back strength tremendously to be able to hold the maintain position.
link |
So there was a lot of like I chose a bent over rows.
link |
So bent over row is a mixed vector.
link |
So it's a forward to back.
link |
So it wouldn't have as much carrier, but it's also got some axial loading component in it
link |
So we're working on that.
link |
And then as we get closer and closer to competition, I'm developing those strengths.
link |
But now I need to start tapering those out.
link |
So all of my recovery needs can now go into the more specific that I'm actually ramping
link |
So as I'm ramping the load on the weight, I'm able to ramp it a lot faster because I'm
link |
tapering out the other stuff.
link |
So I can still keep my total load high, but now get it very, very specific.
link |
So everything that I've done has always been kind of an annual training cycle.
link |
And then again, this was like this was a five year training cycle, but we just kind of walked
link |
through the last year of each and you can see how these concepts play out in reality.
link |
So in the cycling.
link |
So this is both for you, but also for more recreational strength athletes.
link |
Let's say there's variety injected into this.
link |
So you will basically stagnate at some level, right?
link |
So you should always be kind of shifting a little bit.
link |
So three to four month blocks in general for an average, you know, just a gen pop fitness
link |
is pretty good where you're going to spend more time maybe in a higher rep range or lower
link |
rep range, a little bit more work on endurance capacity or maybe some more time.
link |
Hey, I'm playing around with boxing or jujitsu or something like that.
link |
Bring that a little bit more to the front for a while and bring the other out.
link |
But like mixing mixing those variables up, but trying to keep the total load the same
link |
and always kind of like, you know, do we add a little more?
link |
Again, it doesn't have to be major and it shouldn't be major.
link |
You don't want these big jumps.
link |
You don't go, oh, my God, let's move.
link |
Let's jump into squatting every day.
link |
You've got to build the capacity to do that.
link |
What role would you say strength has in sports that combine skill and strength?
link |
So for me personally, maybe I'll just ask it selfishly, which is grappling, wrestling,
link |
How about I start with baseball?
link |
Baseball and golf are two of my favorite sports.
link |
You don't have to be in shape at all to excel at those sports.
link |
Well, here's the thing.
link |
I'm going to get this argument.
link |
Well, I've got a perfect example, because this is why I sell so many Transformer bars
link |
into the Major League Baseball.
link |
So they get these people that come in, these athletes, that have been baseball their whole
link |
It is part of the culture.
link |
And so they're great athletes.
link |
They've got all this skill.
link |
The only thing they have to do is develop a little bit more resilience so that they
link |
don't have the injury.
link |
They can push their training a little bit more, that they can add a little bit more
link |
force output and be able to recover from it.
link |
So the only thing they've got to do is add some training.
link |
But there's no training culture there, so they don't have any experience, which is why
link |
they love the Transformer bar, because they don't have to worry about teaching the technique.
link |
We can actually set the bar on a setting that makes their squats perfect by cueing all the
link |
stuff with actually not having to coach it.
link |
Because when you're coaching a roomful of athletes, it's really hard to teach the nuance
link |
of all this and not sure that all that.
link |
But that's all that they have to do with these players with a huge level of skill.
link |
So once you reach a certain level of skill, adding strength is the only real forward path.
link |
So that's the basic, simple answer to that.
link |
So one of the benefits there being injury prevention, actually.
link |
Injury prevention.
link |
Because especially fighting sports, you're going to be challenged and thrown and other
link |
things happen to you.
link |
And the more resilient you can make your structures, the better you're going to be.
link |
Even a cyclist, mountain biking.
link |
Why would they need it?
link |
Why would they need to do upper body training?
link |
Take a crash, your shoulder's gone.
link |
Your career's over.
link |
Unless you've done a little training.
link |
So there's value in all this stuff.
link |
But the resilience, that's huge.
link |
And then we can overlay strength.
link |
Where we miss is this focus on strength when we haven't developed quality motor patterns
link |
So this is a huge thing with children.
link |
Because people want to know what's the appropriate training age.
link |
I'd have had my daughter training before my son.
link |
Because she developed movement patterns that have better quality earlier.
link |
Because it's going to be very dependent on the individual.
link |
There's no point in having adaptation if we don't have the right thing to adapt to yet.
link |
And that applies to general movement, but also to sport.
link |
You're saying the skills should be developed first and then the strength applied on top
link |
Maybe you can educate me, but I actually quit lifting and powerlifting for a long time
link |
after I started Judo, Jiu Jitsu, grappling, all this sort of combat sports.
link |
Because I found that it was preventing me from relaxing my body enough to load in the
link |
So this isn't a problem with the training.
link |
This is a problem with you.
link |
So this is actually really, really important.
link |
The first product I ever released was a loadable mace, a swinging mace.
link |
And because every power lifter and body, well, not every, but most serious power lifters
link |
and bodybuilders, like shoulders, mobility is pretty limited.
link |
And most of them really, really struggle with this.
link |
The problem is they've been taught to have tension all the time.
link |
And that's not good.
link |
So when we talk about the joint positions that we were talking about earlier and having
link |
those and the muscles in the right length and tension relationship, athleticism is the
link |
speed to relaxation because the counter is speed to contraction.
link |
Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.
link |
And so what a mace can do is use that because this ties back into a developmental kinesiology
link |
because a lot of like reset patterns are getting back into these basic movements, but it's
link |
as much about relaxation as it is contraction.
link |
So a mace, we have this weight on a big long lever.
link |
So if I grab a kettlebell and this would be like the same movement as a kettlebell halo,
link |
it is the same movement as a, but here in the halo, I'm on the whole time with the mace
link |
at the proper length, with the right distribution, you cannot do the movement.
link |
You could not move force your way through it.
link |
The only way that you can accomplish that is by relaxing.
link |
And then now we, now we can contract all the muscles related around that shoulder girdle
link |
We're working on, off, on, off, on, off with moving and contracting.
link |
And now, so what happens a lot of times as we, you know, this stiffness and tightness
link |
So in four positions, we start using stabilizer muscles to do the movement.
link |
And then that's where this stiffness come from.
link |
So it means that in some of whatever training that you're doing, there's a deficit in the
link |
movement quality, okay.
link |
Or there's a deficit in the training program and you're not recovering from an 80% of the
link |
That's the right answer.
link |
But yeah, that's where the, where the gap is and learning how to relax and the way a
link |
lot of the exercises are taught and have been taught for a long time, which is why there's
link |
And this is why both clinical rehab and all these other components are mixed in my philosophy
link |
and what I'm trying to do with Kabuki strength, because I'm looking at holistic movement.
link |
I'm not looking at powerlifting based movements are what I want to load and be able to assess
link |
But this affects all sports, all activities and strength doesn't have to be that.
link |
I mean, I'm freaking a thousand pound squatter and deadlifter.
link |
If you watch any of my videos where I do like complete quad fallbacks, I don't stretch at
link |
I can usually get close to a full split.
link |
Like if I want to.
link |
No, I did not see those videos.
link |
That's, that's hard to believe.
link |
Well actually I do.
link |
I just did one recently, a quad fallback with my, with my mace loaded way out to the end
link |
torsioning on both ends of the other.
link |
And like I do a lot of, I do a lot of weird stuff.
link |
But squatting doesn't make your hips tight.
link |
Squatting like shit makes your hips tight.
link |
And so, but there is no perfect world where always our training program isn't quite perfect.
link |
Our movement isn't necessarily perfect.
link |
Like so you're going to have the needs for this stuff.
link |
But if you're always have to do some soft tissue work to loosen up the same one for
link |
that exercise, to be able to get a joint in position, there is a problem.
link |
And I'm not saying don't do it, do it because I don't want you to have a joint.
link |
Like if I can't get my shoulders in a position, I can't do overhead presses because I'm going
link |
to compromise my spine position.
link |
Then I'm going to end up with some other problems.
link |
So go ahead and clean that up so you can get in position, but go figure out why it is and
link |
And then maybe next, you know, three, four months from now, they're going to get a little
link |
something else going on, fix it, but go understand the deeper root reason of why.
link |
So I'm, I believe I am the only company manufacturing and selling, you know, fascial soft tissue
link |
And I'll tell you, I don't want you to use them.
link |
Cause it's not helping you get to the why, why it was caused in the first place.
link |
The goal, the goal, the perfect state is not having to use them.
link |
Reality is you're going to have to use them from time to time because the world's not
link |
So your discovery is a hundred percent on point.
link |
Well there's another side to combat sports when you're beginning a particular combat
link |
sport, strength can be a negative because human psychology, because you can get away
link |
with a lot when you're strong.
link |
So if your mind is strong enough to where you can just turn off that advantage and be
link |
a beginner, truly in a particular art, that's probably the best way to do it.
link |
But you can get away and then you don't learn.
link |
Uh, it's hard not to use the little advantages you have because like jujitsu is a big hit
link |
on an, on the ego for, you know, especially guys, you know, when like a smaller person
link |
just destroys you, dominates you when you can, uh, I don't know, deadlift whatever number
link |
And uh, it's hard not to use that strength to then resist the slow, the ultimate destruction
link |
by like 120 pound, but that, and that's why I recommend developing the skill quality first,
link |
but it doesn't, it doesn't mean that you can't, I can't, you can still do it so that don't
link |
take it as a like, oh, I can't go that direction.
link |
But understand those things and then also understand the jujitsu is additional load
link |
So you have to, you can't just add it on top.
link |
You've got to taper back the other, you're going to have to make a, I'm sorry, you may
link |
not want to hear it, but you're not going to be able to do as much and add that here.
link |
It's a compromise because your total volume still has to be there and there's not, unfortunately,
link |
not really a way to measure what the jujitsu volume is with this.
link |
So you've got to take a look at that and that's where like measuring like heart rate variability
link |
or other stuff can be useful so you can see what is happening from me from a sympathetic
link |
versus parasympathetic nervous system standpoint.
link |
Making sure your body recovers sufficiently and trying to put numbers to it.
link |
You mentioned Kabuki strength.
link |
You run the Kabuki strength lab previously called the elite performance center in Oregon.
link |
You called it the perfect gym.
link |
What makes for the perfect strength training gym?
link |
Where I called it the perfect gym?
link |
In a video somewhere I watched.
link |
I mean, that's where my testing grounds for developing all this stuff was through the
link |
And, and so this is, like I said, I started developing relationships with the best developmental
link |
kinesiologist in the, in the U S the best, arguably the best or most well known physical
link |
therapist in the world, the best spine biomechanist in the world.
link |
I started doing continuing education with these clinical courses and learning this stuff
link |
and going, but how does it work in my world?
link |
And then I started lecturing with them and all this other stuff.
link |
But the lab was like, where do we test this stuff?
link |
And so let me get to a point.
link |
There's three things.
link |
There's always three things.
link |
So to be a success, to achieve success, I believe there's three things that really,
link |
really come into place and it's the right methodology, the right tools and the right
link |
And so it was all about building that.
link |
And so the methodologies came from a lot of that different, that gray area interaction
link |
of clinical with sports science, right?
link |
And then the tools I had to start creating and designing, and then the environment is
link |
having this, you know, focused environment of people that want to do better and push
link |
each other and having community and culture, right?
link |
I ended up building these connections, this network, everything that I'm doing with my
link |
businesses is trying to create that into a scalable fashion.
link |
And so I'm building the groundwork because to have a system that like, yeah, I had clinicals
link |
on site that knew exactly what we were doing.
link |
And when it's me and a few people in a small team and all this stuff, we're all just like
link |
And you can see these, there's other models around this.
link |
So I've been other areas since maybe whenever it was I filmed that video that said that,
link |
that they have that same model and it's taken probably about a decade usually to develop
link |
You know, and having the right people in this community, they can create this, this network
link |
and the tool and all this stuff, right?
link |
Except they still don't have the best tools because Kibuki strength didn't exist.
link |
But but and so out of that was, is essentially I started building this business and people
link |
like, when did you know how all this stuff was connected?
link |
And I'm like, I don't know.
link |
I didn't, I just started creating on the outset the things that worked until finally I'm like,
link |
I'm recreating a scalable version of this stuff.
link |
Here's the methodologies and a coaching platform that we can manage clients around the globe
link |
and see what's working and not based on the scientific principles of training, right?
link |
How do we create that into a database that now we can train new coaches and they can
link |
use those same metrics and tools to create programs that are tailored to fit person's
link |
individual needs, right?
link |
Now how do we integrate that with assessment and clinical care assessment and all these
link |
So there's a lot of work in that.
link |
And so that's where Kibuki strength is the genesis.
link |
But we have, we call our gym the Kibuki strength lab.
link |
Literally people find about our gym in the neighborhood and they're like, how long have
link |
Why, why do I not know about this?
link |
We don't advertise our gym at all.
link |
So like that makes no sense.
link |
Well that's because the only reason is to have a testing environment for the tools and
link |
methodology and having enough people to have the culture and fit and to be able to be part
link |
of the experiment.
link |
What about the environment of the, the feel of it, the actual gym?
link |
There's a, I don't know, a grunginess to it.
link |
I recently became a member of planet fitness for, for reasons that have to do more with
link |
the heat in Austin that sometimes I need to put in time in the treadmill.
link |
I don't like that.
link |
I don't have any judgment, honestly.
link |
I don't, the best gyms I've been in are kind of dirty.
link |
You walk in and you know that work is to be done.
link |
There's not another reason to do there.
link |
It is the, the environment is tight.
link |
There's a big piece of that.
link |
I know it's studied sociologically, I believe.
link |
I just, I just pictured that word too, but the intensity, when you start growing a space,
link |
the intensity drops.
link |
And so I, I had that experience when we grew, we went from a 4,000 foot to a 9,000 square
link |
foot gym at one time.
link |
And everybody's like, it doesn't feel the same.
link |
Like people are complaining for years.
link |
We've shrunk it back down whenever down to 3,500 square feet.
link |
And it creates that intensity.
link |
It creates the closest, the connection with the people around you.
link |
And then like I said, the grunginess, like you go in, you know, the intention when you
link |
walk in that environment creates that tension.
link |
But when I speak environment, it's not just the, it's not the physical, it's the people.
link |
But you know, when the gym is a little bit beat up, it also tells a story.
link |
Like there's a history to it.
link |
You could tell that not only is there work to be done, that work has been done here.
link |
Like battles have been fought.
link |
There's something to that where you're just in a long line of people, you know, that fought
link |
And we could get into a whole nother space, there'd be a whole nother topic, but that
link |
existing energy of a space.
link |
I mean, we mentioned offline, Joe Rogan, he talks about the same with comedy clubs.
link |
There's certain, there's certain clubs that just have a history.
link |
There's an energy there.
link |
You can get all woo woo, but you know, it's there.
link |
It's a real thing.
link |
I think you walk in and you can feel it.
link |
That makes me feel that somehow all of us humans are connected in a ways that's hard
link |
to describe, even the ones who are no longer here.
link |
Just the greatness that once was is still in the walls, in the space, present there.
link |
And we somehow can plug into that energy.
link |
It's, we can go down a, go down a path there.
link |
There's something really powerful there.
link |
You've also mentioned a bunch of cool equipment that you've developed as part of Kabuki Strength.
link |
Probably a little bit of that has to do with your engineering education, but also just
link |
generally with the spirit of the innovator that you are.
link |
What are some cool, maybe revolutionary pieces of equipment that you're particularly proud
link |
of or just you've been obsessed with recently that you're developing?
link |
Love to talk about that.
link |
So we've got some wild crazy stuff that just came out and is coming out too.
link |
So everything that we create and release at Kabuki Strength, the industry hasn't seen
link |
There's stuff that's basic foundational.
link |
It's been around forever because it works, but there's always more.
link |
It could be better.
link |
And why are we not looking at these things, these foundational things?
link |
So when people are coming up with novel things, they ended up being way different outside
link |
And I'm coming up with things that are way different that are plays on what we already
link |
So we talked about the transform bar, the only bar in the world.
link |
We can manipulate spinal mechanics.
link |
We can, so everything, everything for me from a design concept that we develop is all about
link |
creating products that can rapidly accommodate to the variability of an individual's leverages,
link |
mobility and training needs.
link |
And that's going to also create and distill down the size and scope of space that we need,
link |
which is going to be, continue to be an ongoing thing.
link |
Check out my Instagram after this and you'll see, I put an entire gym on the bed of my
link |
truck and went on vacation last week, drove to the desert and by entire gym, I mean a
link |
squat rack, full compliment of our specialty bars, a horizontal and vertical pulley system,
link |
handheld weights, shoulder rock, like a complete, an entire gym in product that took up the
link |
space the size of this bed right here.
link |
That's incredible.
link |
Because of the design scope of what we have.
link |
So the cool thing is that there's two other bars that fit our biomechanically sound barbell
link |
We talked about the transformer bar.
link |
The other two are built on this thing I called playground physics.
link |
So we have these bars with handles that are off parallel with the axis.
link |
So they've been around the market for a long time.
link |
One is a hex bar or a trap bar.
link |
Another one is a, it's a pressing bar with the handles turned as well.
link |
And both of them suck.
link |
Any lifter knows if you pick it up, it's going to break your wrist and crush into your face.
link |
And it just, it just doesn't feel good pressing, but it alleviates the strain on the wrist.
link |
So people use it for that reason.
link |
And the, the, the trap bar, same thing.
link |
It's always diving forward in your hand.
link |
So it's kind of limited.
link |
It's also limited in use because you can't, you could do a lot more with it.
link |
So these bars are really cool playground physics.
link |
So as soon as the center of rotation is on the same axis as the center of mass and the
link |
handle is off center, you have, you have a teeter totter.
link |
So a teeter totter has a balance point, but it's infinitely perfect.
link |
So technically you can never find it.
link |
So always going to be sitting on one side or the other in a playground.
link |
And that's what these bars are designed.
link |
So you've got instability right here.
link |
You can't find the center of the bars.
link |
It's always trying to tip in your hands on the trap bar.
link |
So you can't do carries with it cause you're doing for momentum and it wants to, it wants
link |
Um, the Swiss bar wants to crush your face.
link |
Well, what do we do?
link |
We just make a swing, but center of mass below center of rotation.
link |
And what does it do?
link |
Oh, it always finds center.
link |
So, so the handles on the, our pressing bar it's art.
link |
So the handles are above center of rotation and then, and then every angle, instead of
link |
just being a certain fixed angles, each angle is based on the width, the average width of
link |
So the internal and external rotational bias is based of the shoulder is based on the width,
link |
leaving just a little bit left because we talked about the lap being a stabilizer.
link |
You still need to have a little bit of cue of external rotation to engage that as a stabilizer.
link |
Now all of a sudden you have a bar and I kid you not, this is a great story.
link |
Major league baseball.
link |
When I presented it, every head strength coach for a major league baseball team, maybe not
link |
every, but damn near most of them have bad shoulders.
link |
They've gotten shoulder surgeries, so on.
link |
And so we're showing them, they love all our stuff and I'm like, Hey, I've got this cool
link |
prototype I want to show you.
link |
It's a pressing bar.
link |
And they're like, Oh, you know, major league baseball is a little hesitant on pressing
link |
because the dangers for the shoulder and I can't, I haven't been able to take a bar to
link |
I mean, I'd really love to.
link |
It's been five years since I've, I've been able to to XX train and I'm like, just try
link |
Put a bar on my chest without pain.
link |
I'm like, just try it.
link |
Ooh, that feels good.
link |
Now the arc makes it actually three inches deeper.
link |
So people are automatically scared.
link |
Cause that's an extra range of motion.
link |
Like, Ooh, put a plate on there.
link |
By the time the staff's like, they're all standing around, you see like, what's going
link |
Put two plates on.
link |
You see the, just like he gets up.
link |
How do you feel like, I feel fine.
link |
I did this with five teams with five of the, it happening repeatedly five times that they
link |
and every one of them worked up to two plates and did reps varied with zero pain to a three
link |
inch range or greater range of major.
link |
Cause what did we do?
link |
We stacked all the joints and we provided stability at the end that we balanced internal
link |
and external rotation.
link |
I mean just basic playground physics and it changed the game.
link |
Now we get a greater range of motion with a greater training effect with the negative
link |
Our trap bar opened up one side, which there was already some like that out there created.
link |
It pops up so you can pick up, take the weights on and off.
link |
It's got a built in Jack and then created the high handle position, which already did.
link |
Everybody uses the high handle on a trap bar.
link |
They just don't know why they like it.
link |
The handle that's on center, we offset just a little bit, not enough to make a difference
link |
on the range of motion lift or even notice visibly, but it still has the same effect.
link |
So both handles now have that.
link |
We added the option of different handle sizes based on whatever your needs are.
link |
One that rolls to develop a grip and then different widths that you could choose from
link |
based on whether you're training a teen athlete or a seven foot six NBA player or a NFL lineman
link |
so that we can accommodate for all these differences.
link |
Now it becomes the most functional all around bar around because now you can do carries
link |
You can do split squats with it.
link |
You could do curls with it because it goes around the body.
link |
You can do overhead presses because you don't have a thing that gets in your way and you
link |
can flip it up into position.
link |
You can do bent over rows and not run into your shins.
link |
You can do seal rows off of a bench.
link |
You can do ab rollouts.
link |
You could, should I go on?
link |
So you can use it as like the main bar.
link |
The best multi purpose bar around.
link |
You got a home gym, one bar.
link |
Like how do you develop totally new equipment like this?
link |
I scratch it on paper.
link |
Maybe weld some cut up and weld up a prototype, but usually I just hand the scratched up paper
link |
to my engineering manager and that's what he says his job is to distill my chicken scratch
link |
into something real and then that team picks it up.
link |
But in the old days, starting out, I just walk out, I just walk out and do it.
link |
You talk about engineering.
link |
I'm actually more, I work more of an artist fashion.
link |
It's in my head and I just go create with no plans.
link |
And so they have to pick that up and actually do the engineering and testing and all that.
link |
And then we got two other products came out this year.
link |
Are you familiar with training with a flywheel?
link |
No, no, it's a flywheel.
link |
A flywheel is a spinning object that creates an inertial mass and then it reverses direction.
link |
So whatever you put into it and there's ones out there.
link |
But ours is the first patent pending.
link |
That's all everything all in one unit.
link |
So it's a floor based as well as a horizontal.
link |
So you can basically do any pulley movement in the world.
link |
And now everything that you put into it on a concentric force, it whips right back as
link |
a peak centric load.
link |
So there's an accelerating whipping motion.
link |
It just yeah, basically, yeah, I mean, okay, I have to have trouble imagining exactly many
link |
of the things you're describing, I suppose, have to be experienced, right?
link |
Because there's a magic and there's a lot of research.
link |
They've been around.
link |
They're adopted more heavily in Europe, quite heavily in Europe, but not as much in the
link |
US because they sell them as a be all end all tool, which they're not.
link |
They're crazy for what they do, but it's not the it's another tool.
link |
And so we have a very high quality unit now that is half the cost of everybody else's
link |
because the innovation of a movable mount point that you for them, you have to have
link |
two pieces of equipment.
link |
So and then a few other things, better platform to be able to do things and that we can do
link |
what we call off platform work, which allows us to do movements like punches and standups,
link |
And then I've got a handheld weight coming out next month that we can actually play with.
link |
So varying the load with it, never leaving your hand by changing the leverage point.
link |
And so what do we think?
link |
What exercise are we talking about here?
link |
Anything that would be a dumbbell or a kettlebell movement.
link |
So it functions, it does the function of a kettlebell, a dumbbell and what we call a
link |
center mass bell, as well as provides variable loading within a range.
link |
So how can you change like how can you change the load?
link |
Well, we don't actually change the load.
link |
We change the torque on the on the joint that we're working, which is the same.
link |
That's actually what is creating the force.
link |
So if I'm doing a front raise, it's where this this downward force is times the distance
link |
Which also then makes it no force when I've got at the bottom of the front raise, which
link |
is why it's so easy with this.
link |
It's like a kettlebell.
link |
It's offset, except it has three different handles.
link |
But it's offset just that a kettlebell, you can't do it because the offset so far it becomes
link |
So ours has three different sizes and the offset just enough so that you can pick.
link |
If I put it in a front raise position or curl position, I could put it in outward position
link |
and the force is almost what it is at the at the top.
link |
Then I get the top and it's the same exact or the curl.
link |
So I can actually change the force curve in the movement and then I can just release the
link |
pressure a little bit and let it swing into position and keep doing a drop set with never
link |
So it's got a really nice texture grip that allows you to hold it in different positions.
link |
And then the load offset is just enough that it doesn't overpower the wrist.
link |
And then you've got different hand sizes so that you can maximize this relationship and
link |
hit whatever joint that you're applying.
link |
So sounds incredible.
link |
It's really freaking well, it's awesome because you can because the variable load.
link |
Now I could go straight from front raises to side raises or rear or curl because without
link |
like because I don't have to put it down.
link |
So now my time under tension goes through the roof.
link |
And by the way, the same effect with a flywheel trainer because the variable whatever you
link |
put into it is what it kicks back.
link |
So you have a constant time under tension because there's no rest points either.
link |
So all this stuff is working on maximizing time under tension, which anyway, it's cool
link |
Anyway, I get excited.
link |
Well, let me ask you about another thing you've already mentioned, but I find this really
link |
interesting, which is barefoot running and you're sort of a company, Barefoot Athletics.
link |
And the tagline is optimizing the human to ground interface.
link |
We've talked about this a little bit with the power lifting.
link |
How do you think about the the foot ground interface?
link |
It's interesting that we know that we should train all these parts of our body to be able
link |
to be stronger, be more resilient.
link |
But we think that the foot is different, that we need to package it and modify it.
link |
And somehow that that's the science of making it healthy where I challenge people think
link |
Like first thing you do in the morning is roll out of bed and put your weightlifting
link |
belt on and wrap it on tight and wear it till you go to bed at night.
link |
Do it with your shoulders, your knees, wake up and put some knee wraps on an elbow wraps
link |
and see what happens.
link |
Then you'll get weaker, you'll lose movement capacity and you'll start affecting other
link |
areas of the body very negatively because they will start picking up the compensation
link |
for those joints that are not moving properly.
link |
What shoes are for is to protect you from the environment, from cuts and abrasions and
link |
heat and things like that.
link |
But the foot, let me the mind blowing is like every other area of the body.
link |
You need to use it and you need to strengthen it and you need to learn to control it.
link |
That's all I have to say about the subject.
link |
But somehow we have been sold entire industries like the orthotics industry.
link |
It's completely false.
link |
Meta analysis of the data shows that orthotics do nothing beyond temporary relief from pain
link |
over a six, eight week period of time and provide no long term benefit.
link |
And I can't tell you how many people I've eliminated back or knee or hip pain from getting
link |
from working on strengthening and controlling the foot and ankle complex.
link |
We believe we've villainized and said a low arch is a condition that needs fixed.
link |
Like when it really is just controlling the foot and ankle complex and how they relate
link |
to each other and how we use that.
link |
Is it like go put on boxing gloves in the morning and do that for the next 20 years
link |
and see what happens.
link |
It's not about finding the right shoe that fits because your foot has been deformed.
link |
And so I'm not like some wacky go like, oh, you got to be barefoot forever.
link |
Do this like, no, I'm just saying go spend some time using it, strengthen it, learn to
link |
control it and you will work better in a shoe.
link |
But the whole running shoe movement with the raised heel, that was the person that that
link |
suggested that that in to Nike way back when they were trying to figure out what to do,
link |
the reason, and he says it's, it's the worst thing that he ever did.
link |
Because we were coming from an era of people wearing heeled shoes, which by the way came
link |
from stirrups way back in the day.
link |
That's where the whole heel came from is to go into stirrup, but then it went into fashion.
link |
And then the running craze started coming around in the seventies.
link |
They're they're starting to push this, the general mass population.
link |
And they realized that they were causing injuries and like, what are we going to do?
link |
Well, that's because everybody was in this position and had a shortened, a shortened
link |
And it's like, well, the work around, let's just put a heel on it so we don't injure them.
link |
And now because the raised heel, you got to raise the toe.
link |
And then now with that, if you go stand on something and pull your inner toe in and in
link |
a squat position, just reach down and do it.
link |
You'll see that you have no control over internal or next door and rotation of your, of, of
link |
You don't and, or your foot and you actually have to put a support in for the arch to be
link |
able to passively control those structures.
link |
It's just bandaid on top of bandaid on top of bandaid.
link |
Use it, strengthen it.
link |
If you want to wear some shoes cause they look good or fancy, I'm like, I have no problem.
link |
I mean, I go out on a wife.
link |
My wife will put on some high heels every now and again.
link |
But all I'm saying is use your foot.
link |
My thousand pound squat, my thousand pound deadlift, we're done barefoot.
link |
I'm not trying to sell you shoes.
link |
Go do it with no shoe.
link |
That's what I've been promoting.
link |
I did that for six years and I promoted it, but people ask me like, well, what do I do?
link |
Because my gym requires shoes.
link |
And uh, and then I go, well, you know, you could pick up these other finger shoes or
link |
whatever and they go, man, my wife won't have sex with me if I do that.
link |
And I go, I know mine either.
link |
Like trust me, I'm not making this up.
link |
Basically in that market markets to one segment and they're still missing some gaps because
link |
they, they still have a little bit too narrow of a toe box.
link |
And if you're lifting, you have the opportunity to really get that splay and start working
link |
on this stuff better.
link |
So, um, I just wanted to create a shoe.
link |
These ones are odd colored cause it's a partnership with Kabuki.
link |
Normally we've got a black or a gray, uh, low top, high top sticks to the ground for
link |
lifting so we can do that and very pliable.
link |
It's a modern day moccasin, but looks okay that you can wear it around in other areas.
link |
If you, if you so choose, like, you know what the number one healthcare costs in America
link |
What's that diabetes, uh, heart disease, cancer, low back pain.
link |
Now, what do you attribute a little back pain to?
link |
Well, it's attributed to a lot of things, um, but inability to control spinal position,
link |
um, which starts happening from, uh, some breathing issues.
link |
Uh, it also happens from the foot.
link |
Um, so there's a lot of stuff, but everything that I do actually focus on improving this.
link |
Uh, that, and it all starts with this is one thing, like this doesn't affect breathing,
link |
but, um, so it does actually affect breathing to some extent and spinal stabilization.
link |
So the raised heel and toe will make you stride further, um, because of just how it operates,
link |
but that overstride is a result of opening this.
link |
So we opened the pelvis and diaphragm.
link |
Did we talk about that and the impact that that has for controlling and spine?
link |
I think we touched on that.
link |
Um, but it, it's all this stuff plays together.
link |
So the gait affects that.
link |
And so the shoe affects the gait and then, so it's all connected.
link |
Let me be very purposeful with some conversation here though.
link |
We've talked about periodization.
link |
This was a big gap.
link |
So, um, people go, yeah, well when people started running with those, they started having
link |
injuries back when, uh, the finger, uh, company produced those and didn't do the education
link |
around this very simple concept.
link |
You do not walk into the gym if you haven't squatted and start squatting 225 from, from
link |
max recs every week, day or every day over day.
link |
And that's what people did because they didn't weren't told that you need to build the capacity
link |
You go wear these and walk around in your office or wherever all day long, your feet
link |
are going to hurt.
link |
They're going to be sore.
link |
Do it for 10% of your time.
link |
Do that for a month, then add some.
link |
That will build the capacity to do this.
link |
And then that's going to start having the ability to strengthen, manage the foot.
link |
And there's a whole lot of other stuff.
link |
I've got videos on things that you can do by whatever you want or just, just spend some
link |
Like, that's all that I want people to do because it is so simple and it has such a
link |
I, what I did, uh, I noticed when you walked out, when I walked in, I was like, Oh, Hey,
link |
you're spending some time without the last shoes on.
link |
Uh, well, what I did, um, I think it's already now two years ago and I was doing a lot of
link |
I do like a 10 mile run.
link |
I would take my shoes off for the last like half mile and I run like that.
link |
And that was for me really helpful to ensure that I have proper form.
link |
Form that minimizes pain on the way I run.
link |
I still like shoes.
link |
I benefit a lot from shoes, the protection they provide, but it's for running we're referring
link |
to, uh, especially trail running and so on.
link |
And in the city when there's glass and all those kinds of things, uh, but it's really
link |
important to have minimal sort of protection on your feet.
link |
For me, at least it was to figure out the ways that my form basic movement and like
link |
the positioning in the foot, the impact of the foot and everything, you know, the, the,
link |
the lower leg, the entirety of the torso, really how it's improperly positioned in
link |
terms for the objective of minimizing pain and the barefoot running really helped fix
link |
Cause I figured out that I need to take shorter steps, more frequent, you know, all those
link |
And that really helps you figure that out.
link |
Like let's be realist about stuff, like, um, spend some time using it, strengthen it.
link |
And I've got some great ways to do that and learn how to do that.
link |
What is a good diet for strength development?
link |
I've just to give you some context, I've been eating mostly meat, not for strength, mostly
link |
for mental performance.
link |
You need to have a base level of protein building blocks for tissue, right?
link |
We need to have enough fats to be able to have hormones work and key processes in the
link |
We need to have, well, you don't need to have from a performance aspect carbohydrates necessarily
link |
because the other ones can convert into injury sources, but for a performance athlete, carbohydrates
link |
can be very beneficial, uh, as well.
link |
So, um, so I look at it as you want, you need a base level fats, you need a base level of
link |
proteins and then you adjust the carbohydrate intake based on the needs.
link |
I'm not anti carbohydrate by any means, um, cause a lot of people will, they look at me
link |
now when they see like how lean I am and they, they jump to a conclusion, you must be keto.
link |
You must be carnivore.
link |
You must be whatever.
link |
Like, so losing and gaining weight is simply eating less or eating more.
link |
I mean it, ah, and it, we get so complicated.
link |
Oh, that my fat, they're like, what's your fasting window?
link |
If I'm, if I'm doing fasting, it's just because it works with my, my environment.
link |
Sometimes I do it.
link |
Sometimes I don't.
link |
All that does is control how much calories that you take big success with keto and carnivore
link |
A lot, uh, and, and put on weight with those, with those diets, um, you know, protein actually
link |
has a thermogenic effect.
link |
And so you have to have a massive amount of fats if you have a only meat diet because
link |
you can literally starve to death.
link |
There's a, there's a show where they put people out in the wilderness and this guy, the one
link |
that won, one of the ones I looked on, they threw him way like up in the, uh, uh, past
link |
a lot, you know, out the way out there, there was nothing, but he somehow got a caribou
link |
And he still lost a pound a day for 30 days with the caribou because his fat was stolen
link |
by a, uh, uh, and, and he could eat all the meat he wanted and then he almost got pulled
link |
because his weight loss.
link |
Um, but that isn't actually a performance.
link |
So those types of keto and carnivore are not performance diets.
link |
So they're not going to be as effective at supplying, uh, the energy needs for high capacity
link |
So don't get me wrong.
link |
I mean, you can be a successful, like elite athlete with a, with a vegan diet, but it's
link |
not as easy to do it with other diets.
link |
So on you're missing some base nutrients, so many nutrients and meat, I believe, uh,
link |
having greens in your diet is really beneficial.
link |
Lots of research, but there's people in the other worlds that argue that they don't need
link |
them, but they help clear organs, provide micronutrients, all this sort of stuff.
link |
So I eat simply a whole well rounded diet.
link |
And I've gone from, I can go from 285 pounds squat and a ton of weight to eating less and
link |
dropping all the way down to, you know, seven, 8% body fat with veins standing out everywhere
link |
without a tissue on me, just with amazing, great tasting food to lose weight or be healthy
link |
does not mean that you need to eat flavorless bland food.
link |
So that's the main thing I try to get across.
link |
Eat less to lose weight.
link |
Eat more to gain weight.
link |
Make sure that you've got enough protein.
link |
Make sure that you've got your micronutrients covered, which is going to cover by eating
link |
Don't go low fat, no fat.
link |
If you want a performance, don't go no carb, but if it works, any of those things.
link |
So diet approach, when you look at diets, understand that they're how aggressive they
link |
So like keto can make you lose a lot of weight.
link |
Carnivore can make you lose a lot of weight.
link |
A lot of that upfront is actually dropping glycogen stores.
link |
So you're actually just reducing water in your muscle and fat tissue.
link |
So which is why it doesn't, isn't as great for a performance diet.
link |
But understand that every diet also has a level of discipline and does it fit your lifestyle?
link |
So I suggest people don't find a diet.
link |
You need to find a lifestyle because that's what sustainable, I hate the word diet to
link |
But behaviors are sustainable and then do that and then over time the things you'll
link |
get to where you need to get.
link |
Diet itself, just by the name of it is not sustainable because it is a short term thing
link |
Yeah, I tend to try to measure it because I definitely have a love heat relationship
link |
I tend to look back and say like by following this particular protocol, lifestyle, whatever,
link |
what was the level of happiness?
link |
So not like weight loss or weight gain or all those kinds of things.
link |
It's the entirety of the picture, productivity, just feeling good throughout the day, socially
link |
also, like interacting with people.
link |
Because so much of a human connection, like I mentioned before, is over food.
link |
And if you're going to limit yourself in that regard, you're limiting a certain fundamental
link |
A number of years ago, I did like 20 to 22 hour fasts every day.
link |
And I'm like, well, this doesn't work.
link |
I can't do business lunches and stuff like that.
link |
So when I was in my fasting thing, I went to a 16 so I could have a light lunch just
link |
for the social aspect of it and perform that.
link |
And then that's why the typical bodybuilding, like the eight meal a day diet has never worked
link |
for me because I've always been a very bit like trying to fit that between meetings and
link |
What that diet provides is it just you get less bloat in distention of a larger meal.
link |
But at the end of the day, you get the same exact results.
link |
Pick a lifestyle, live that you can have really great tasting food.
link |
And that to me is the same thing.
link |
And this is why I'm like really hitting this point, because also with the dieting and like
link |
the approach like, oh, I'm going to do this and people pick these chicken and broccoli
link |
recipes and guess what?
link |
You're going to break.
link |
If you do not, if you do not enjoy it, you will break.
link |
So it is a very important point.
link |
Well, I also slightly push back or maybe to elaborate, if you don't enjoy moderation,
link |
for me particularly, I have trouble moderating certain things, most foods, I would say.
link |
So my source of happiness comes with foods, even if they're bland, the ones that can enjoy,
link |
but enjoy moderation.
link |
So there's, I mean, I enjoy every piece of food.
link |
So it's like, it's if you can enjoy the full lifestyle, it's not just the particular experience,
link |
but like the full journey.
link |
Does it fit your lifestyle?
link |
So let me ask about a complicated topic that's sometimes a bit controversial, which is steroids
link |
and maybe TRT, testosterone replacement therapy.
link |
What role does that play in strength training?
link |
We're going to go there.
link |
But it's an important discussion to have.
link |
I think that it's something that I can be more transparent on.
link |
In my past, I wasn't able to do to the career that I had.
link |
So just like covering that stuff in a, you know, one of the, on a public forum when you're
link |
highly looked at being an executive for recruiting and other stuff, like it was an area I had
link |
to just kind of pass on, right?
link |
Now I've used steroids.
link |
I've used them since I was 33 and I basically just use TRT now after my big squat.
link |
So for 10 years I used them and there's some interesting components to this.
link |
So one is just the gray area of what we call performance enhancing supplements.
link |
So performance was a PEDs that the line of what defines a PED is ever shifting and it's
link |
shifting based on society norms, cultural norms, government body agencies, all these
link |
So I'm not making excuses here.
link |
So I just want to elaborate before I actually start digging into the details here because
link |
performance enhancing, I could take sodium bicarbonate and enhance my ability to perform
link |
deadlifts for reps.
link |
I did that for my Guinness world record for deadlifts in a minute.
link |
People do it for rowing or other, they use a high capacity type stuff.
link |
It is performance enhancing.
link |
It is a chemical, it is baking soda, all right?
link |
They're not able to make it illegal because everybody eats bread, well, not everyone.
link |
And so it's a little hard to test for no matter what you do at any level.
link |
So that's an extreme example, but other examples, you're drinking an energy drink in that cup
link |
there a little while ago and in America you can get an energy drink with 240 milligrams
link |
of caffeine in it.
link |
In Canada, that's too dangerous.
link |
You can only get 140, but you can go buy a ephedra and ephedra is illegal in America.
link |
And so these things bounce back and forth all the time.
link |
I could take Yohimbi and in Europe or Australia, it is a drug and classified and America, it
link |
It's an herbal root in a lot, I actually have one of my supplements except for the overseas
link |
Anyway, the point I'm getting is no matter what you do at some point, by someone's standards,
link |
And because it is, you're taking something that, but you could work around these things
link |
with nutritional ways or other ways versus taking a chemical strip and there's whole
link |
lots of ways to do this, but it's like, oh no, it's steroids, it's not, it's injectable,
link |
So somewhere there's a culture or a person that will say you're cheating no matter what.
link |
So it's a self defined, you need to define it for yourself unless you're competing in
link |
an organization that has testing, then it's a straight ethical thing and it's either right
link |
or wrong in my opinion.
link |
That's kind of the overall dilemma of it is if you want to see what you're totally capable
link |
of, you have to decide yourself what's okay or not to that level.
link |
There is no body that can say something yes or no.
link |
When there's an event like the Olympics, maybe then you have a standard that you're all trying
link |
to adhere to and then it makes sense to keep a certain, like to be within, there's an ethical
link |
So yeah, I'm not talking about that, I'm agreeing to compete in this by these rules.
link |
Yeah, but when you're trying to maximize your own performance, whatever that journey is,
link |
whatever that goal is, that's a different story and it's not easy to figure that out.
link |
You're just like dancing around the subject, whatever.
link |
Well guess what, I've got a prescription for growth hormone and testosterone.
link |
It's legal for me to take and you know what?
link |
A lot of the people that are in front of the camera in the media, politicians and news
link |
people and the people that are there saying the no drug stuff, they're going to anti aging
link |
clinics to look better and they have a prescription for growth hormone and testosterone themselves.
link |
But in their eyes, it's okay.
link |
It is a prescription from their doctor because they have the money to do it.
link |
So it's legal and it's fine.
link |
If I is interesting in Oregon, anybody and I don't know what other states over the age
link |
of 16 can without parents permission by the way, walk into a gender clinic and as a female
link |
and get a prescription for testosterone.
link |
But as an athlete, if I've got low testosterone, I am so flow, I've got depression, I can't
link |
have sex with my wife.
link |
It's affecting my quality of life.
link |
I will have to fight tooth and nail to get testosterone just as a prescription and then
link |
I will get kicked out of my organization for competing.
link |
So you understand how gray this stuff gets.
link |
Do you think the stigma on testosterone is the reason we're not having like a healthy
link |
conversation about when it's proper?
link |
Like what are the proper uses of testosterone in an athlete's life and just the regular
link |
And it's just, it's like anything.
link |
It's like I said, it is lines that we pick and draw.
link |
Anytime you put that out there, people are going to have different opinions where those
link |
So now when it comes to strength, here's an interesting thing.
link |
In powerlifting, there's tested federations and non tested federations.
link |
So we can literally look at the statistical data and actually find out what do steroids
link |
And so it's pretty clear that steroids provide about a 10% increase in strength on average
link |
Now that does take out the fact that steroids will put you in, allow you to put on more
link |
mass so you'll go up a weight class a lot of times.
link |
So as a whole, you could definitely lift more probably than the 10% over time, right?
link |
And then we think about steroids as the ability to just put on muscle.
link |
And here's where things get a little interesting, even with people that use steroids is not
link |
understanding the neurological impacts that steroids have.
link |
Because you could take some steroids right now and be stronger in 10 minutes.
link |
That's clearly not done anything, you know, from a physiology standpoint to make you stronger.
link |
But we have a tapped in neurologically to to elicit those games.
link |
And there's a whole lot that happens neurologically.
link |
Like how much science is there in terms of all the different ways you could take steroids,
link |
which kinds of steroids, the timing, the dose, the all of those things to develop the neurological,
link |
the physical, the skeletal, like all the, you know, you've talked with such depth about
link |
the science of strength building in terms of form, in terms of the equipment that you
link |
It seems like a component, you know, the use of steroids should be an equal level of scientific
link |
rigor when applying them.
link |
Now, the research is harder to get because of what it is.
link |
But there is a lot of research that was done when they were legal.
link |
So they were legal up in through the through, I think, the mid 80s.
link |
And so a lot of the classical high, high benefit to low risk steroids were studied.
link |
And then since then, there's a lot of like designer steroids or new steroids that have
link |
come up that don't have a lot of research around safety and risk and things of that
link |
And we can't do that because it's, you know, because of the legality around these things.
link |
But some of the stuff on the neurological function is really just understanding how
link |
that chemical structure works and what it's doing to the neurotransmitters, what it's
link |
And so some of it is is really talking to people that have experience with it.
link |
And the other is understanding those structures and what they do.
link |
The neurological component, I think, is more interesting than than most, because the most
link |
steroids act through increasing muscle protein synthesis.
link |
That's how you add more muscle is they have an anti catabolic effect and they have a muscle
link |
protein synthesis enhancing effect.
link |
So it reduces the amount of muscle that you waste and increases the amount of muscle that
link |
But the neurological component is is tremendously valuable for what it can do for your training
link |
Like if I handle more load over time, I'm going to make more progress.
link |
If I can actually just stimulate more neurological effects for a specific event, it's going to
link |
But there's other ways that you can tap into this, too.
link |
Things that you can tap into mentally with great practice, with meditation and other
link |
stuff that will have the same effect.
link |
People probably think I'm over speaking, especially steroid users that are listening to this.
link |
Well, at least I'm talking out my ass, but I'm not.
link |
Because I I have experience with this stuff on both ends.
link |
And some of those areas, a lot of people don't have the experience with that.
link |
What I've kind of heard from people is the confidence that comes with steroids.
link |
It feels like not to call it placebo, but it seems like the psychological benefits of
link |
steroids is huge and that you feel like there's a confidence that seems to be coupled with
link |
the actual biological and chemical effects.
link |
I have actually a neurological condition.
link |
So I actually don't feel a lot of that stuff that people because there are certain steroids
link |
that like people like you're like very extreme ones, like that would make somebody bite someone's
link |
ear off in a fight, for example, almost like aggression that and they literally do nothing.
link |
I'm like always just chillin and I don't like that effect.
link |
But but neurologically, they're still having those effects, but I don't get those feels
link |
that other people have from those.
link |
But yes, there's that immediate boost in aggression and a confidence and stuff that come with
link |
a lot of those ones that deal on the neurological overall as good sense of well being, just
link |
like from being on testosterone, like it's going to affect your mood.
link |
And it's interesting.
link |
So testosterone replacement therapy, if we walk down that path now and kind of switch
link |
gears, you know, we find that men today have declining testosterone over what has historically
link |
So right now, I think a thirty five year old testosterone is shown to be about half what
link |
it was just 50 years ago.
link |
So I don't know if we could argue the point.
link |
We don't really have the science to validate any of it, but it could be society as far
link |
as the impact that it's having on the mental health for men.
link |
It could be the the estrogens floating around in the water from all the chemicals and birth
link |
control and all this sort of stuff could be a lot of things.
link |
But it is a fact that average testosterone is significantly lower and that is going to
link |
end up affecting life, quality of life, as well as your longevity, because it will affect
link |
But on the other end, steroids and TRT, particularly steroids, come with a lot of negative health
link |
benefits, not benefits, a lot of negative health ramifications.
link |
And so, you know, if I knew what I know now, I don't know that I would have gone that path.
link |
I didn't till I was thirty three, which is kind of an outlier for a strength athlete.
link |
I was I was a four times body weight deadlifter, eight hundred plus pounds at one ninety eight.
link |
And it's pretty dang strong before I went down that path.
link |
And that's because I wanted to see what I was capable of.
link |
But I was reaching a point that it was either I need to do that or not.
link |
My testosterone, my natural testosterone levels were actually I think below 300 is actually
link |
So I was being told to go on TRT for the last couple of years, probably just because I was
link |
pushing so hard and the stress level was driving my test down.
link |
So it was self imposed more than likely.
link |
But I put it off because I wanted to set all the drug free records and I set the ones that
link |
And then it was thirty three.
link |
I'm, you know, entering the age category and I'm like, I'm going to go on TRT.
link |
I did not feel like I should be with TRT personally.
link |
My ethical standard was I shouldn't be competing in tested events anymore.
link |
There are federations that will allow you with your you show up with your script and
link |
you do your test and you're below a certain level, but you're still on.
link |
But for me, I'm like, that's not you.
link |
So I'm like, I may as well at this point use steroids.
link |
But since then, you know, understanding all those ramifications, you know, I might not
link |
have gone down that route quite so fast and easily.
link |
But I continued because I also have a lot of resources that other people don't and being
link |
able to assess and understand and put things in place to mitigate that.
link |
So you need to be.
link |
And the other thing is, once you go on, it's literally a decision for life.
link |
Not just but realistically is because your your quality of life, your feeling is going
link |
to be enhanced quite a bit and you're not going to want to go back.
link |
And if you go back, it's going to be less than it was before.
link |
That's how the endocrine system works.
link |
There are ways to try to recover and bring that up, but it might be a while.
link |
And if you've been on for a while, it definitely is not an option.
link |
So those are big things that people need to understand that you're going to have some
link |
And even TRT has some potential, especially at higher levels, that it's going to, you
link |
know, increase the risk for prostate cancer.
link |
It's going to potentially cause some hypertrophy of the left ventricle of the heart and some
link |
potential plaque buildup of some of those key arteries around there that's going to
link |
have an impact on your cardiovascular health.
link |
There's things that you can do again, but everything is like the shoe story, right?
link |
Where I'm anti anti shoe, but I'm going, well, we could put band aids on this.
link |
But there's a quality of life that comes with it, the increase in quality of life.
link |
And if you do it correctly, I think for me, for me, I definitely would not live without
link |
TRT, even with knowing what I know now.
link |
It this age and the quality of life and being able to be there, have the energy, the recovery.
link |
That's a big thing where all this, though, I talked about muscle protein synthesis and
link |
anti catabolism as being big drivers.
link |
But recovery is the other big aspect that they that they offer probably as a result
link |
of those, but that's going to those are going to be the big enhancement.
link |
So just doing steroids, steroids is going to increase all the other stuff that you do.
link |
So if you if you have good training, if good diet, good quality of sleep, like all this
link |
other stuff, then you can take advantage of that.
link |
But you could choose steroids and nobody would know.
link |
And honestly, you go down to 24 hour fitness and you'll see a bunch of, you know, late,
link |
you know, 19 to 21 year old kids that are all kind of red and one hundred and fifty
link |
pounds that look like that don't look like anything.
link |
And they're a bunch of them will be using steroids because they're not like.
link |
So it's it's not the it's not going to make a champion, like you said, it's not going
link |
I was already at an elite level.
link |
I was one of the best in the world before I started using it doesn't it doesn't do that.
link |
It does a 10 percent increase at best.
link |
And that's proven in the statistics, which is interesting because most people don't know
link |
Like it the data is right there.
link |
And that's why I'm often saddened by maybe the negative view of somebody like Lance Armstrong,
link |
who is one of the greatest athletes in history and everybody else that he was competing against.
link |
I hate to blow anybody's bubble.
link |
But regardless, if I told you my ethical pieces with saying that you're going to be at something
link |
at an elite level.
link |
You look at most a lot of those big figures out there.
link |
When their income in your life relies on it, yeah, you're going to push those limits.
link |
So maybe maybe my ethical would change if if if I was in that position, too, because
link |
here's the thing where I believe like someone is.
link |
I think people should avoid steroids.
link |
TRT, probably something worth taking a look at what your levels are when you're in the
link |
thirty five to forty five range and see what decision you decide to make from there.
link |
And that's a decision that you make for the rest of your life.
link |
The only times that you should be taking a look at steroids is if it's it's funding your
link |
It's creating that it is your job and it's doing like and honestly, it was for me.
link |
I so was it the only thing?
link |
If you want to get into neurology, it's neurotransmitters and alcohol is really interesting discussion
link |
on performance enhancement.
link |
So when I lift heavy and so I always promote it, like not more than a drink or two, like
link |
once or twice a month is what all I'm talking about when I'm what I'm saying.
link |
So what's the timing of the drink?
link |
Are we talking about three to five minutes before?
link |
And we're talking about beer.
link |
It doesn't matter the the source.
link |
So I shots are the easiest.
link |
You want something that is not going to have some sort of regurgitory effect or bloating
link |
effect or anything like that, but you want to have the quick hit of energy.
link |
So it's a preferential energy source moves above ketones, carbs, everything at seven
link |
calories per gram.
link |
But then there's some really interesting things that happen, spikes blood pressure, which
link |
is going to make weights feel lighter.
link |
So when you're in your early 20s and you're trying to hit up, you know, some attractive
link |
person at the bar, you're with your buddies and you're like, you know, and you got second
link |
And they go, have a shot of liquid courage and you have one.
link |
And all of a sudden the second thoughts, the second guessing all that drops away.
link |
Like you're focused in the moment and you walk over and you actually perform a little
link |
better like conversation wise than you normally would.
link |
Now if you have five or six and then go over, you're gonna make a fool of yourself.
link |
So it's all about timing and amount.
link |
But there is a reason that that happens.
link |
So anyway, I'm known for promoting this whiskey and deadlift concept.
link |
It's like the Eastern block.
link |
That's where it came.
link |
That's where I stole it from.
link |
Because I was watching all these Russian lifters would have a shot of vodka or something before
link |
And I'm like, there's something here.
link |
So I started experimenting with it and I'm like, that works.
link |
And then I started researching.
link |
Nobody talks about this stuff.
link |
So it takes a while to start piecing together all the stuff that actually happens to make
link |
But it moves away the things that you're going to, the concerns about the ramifications in
link |
the future and the other stuff.
link |
So the, um, but brings you into the moment and then the dopamine hit and the other, and
link |
then it enhances whatever mood that you're in.
link |
But all of a sudden you get in the state much easier.
link |
And so it's really, really interesting, but it's very, it's a very small amount needed
link |
and very time sensitive, but it can be so much more powerful than like drugs people
link |
use for this stuff.
link |
It ties really together with meditative state and other pieces to, to, to get you into that
link |
flow state, those thoughts about failure, what if, what, like all that you, you get
link |
into that zone, that moment, that time anyway.
link |
An alcoholic is promoting out, you know, but there's an important point here, which not
link |
often talked about.
link |
I think it is fascinating that because you can get into so much trouble with alcohol
link |
when used in excess, people don't often talk about the, the positive aspects of alcohol,
link |
even in your college years.
link |
It had a, it had a lasting effect on who I am as a person.
link |
I don't think people give enough credit to the positive aspect.
link |
See, you could have accomplished a lot of those same things with a little more moderation,
link |
which I think people should talk about more, which is like the way to open up a personality,
link |
like the flowering of the full character and the weirdness and the, the, the, like the
link |
beauty of who you are as a human being could be opened up with alcohol.
link |
And that's really interesting to think about.
link |
You should try some podcasts with a, with a shot and, and these, I do this sometimes
link |
with myself and guests and it will change the conversation, lubricates the conversation.
link |
Definitely not the excess and which is what I learned because I went all the way in because
link |
I do everything at extremes.
link |
So it was a really hard lesson that took me a lot of time to unwind, but it is interesting
link |
and people don't discuss those things because it's, it's either this or this.
link |
You're one of the greatest strength athletes of all time.
link |
So it's worthwhile to consider how you optimize the, the feats of strength that you reach
link |
for with things like steroids.
link |
It makes perfect sense and I think that was a, from my perspective, I think it was probably
link |
the right decision.
link |
You've achieved something incredible that inspires a huge number of people.
link |
And you've shown to yourself and to the world, but what the human body can accomplish.
link |
That's incredible.
link |
And no matter if I push to a less weight and if I disclosed everything that I did and
link |
I didn't, when I wasn't using steroids, in my opinion, if we went through everything,
link |
there would people that would say, you're using performance enhancing, no matter what,
link |
like it is, it's straight up.
link |
So you just need to be okay with it yourself.
link |
And so I had to make the call, I want to see what the true potential is of every, let's
link |
throw everything out the window that I feel unless I feel it's a risk from a, from a health
link |
standpoint that I'm not willing to take on.
link |
And because that's, how do I like, it's just picking and choosing and it's just picking
link |
I here's what I want to know.
link |
This is what I want to be able to try to achieve.
link |
And so, yeah, yeah, that's what I did.
link |
And what you did is incredible.
link |
Like it's, it's just awe inspiring.
link |
And what Lance Armstrong did was incredible.
link |
And that, and that, and that aged me up.
link |
And what's funny is the people that bash them are like on the media or politicians or maybe
link |
some actors and guess what?
link |
A ton of them are doing the same thing.
link |
It's hypocrisy at its finest.
link |
But how many, how many of those figures you're watching in movies that love to talk, you
link |
know, be, you know, be political and do this and the news and all this, I'm telling you
link |
they're, they're anti aging clinics, like all over California and everywhere else.
link |
Who do you think is, keeps them in business?
link |
It's not the competitive lifter.
link |
I'll tell you that.
link |
And they're using peptides and also, and SARMs and all sorts of like.
link |
You're speaking to the hypocrisy.
link |
I also want to speak to the fact, you know, somebody who's a friend of mine, David Goggins.
link |
I don't know if you know what that is.
link |
Ultra marathon runner, Navy seal.
link |
Pretty incredible person.
link |
Incredible human being.
link |
And he gets criticism like, you know, what you're doing is, is bad for the body.
link |
You know, you're, you're pushing yourself too far.
link |
I find that the people that criticize are often people that haven't truly pushed themselves
link |
They haven't actually worked hard in their life.
link |
When you work hard, you realize how incredible it is that a human being can dedicate themselves
link |
so fully to an effort the way you did, the way David Goggins does the way, the way the
link |
greatest athletes do.
link |
And there's nothing that should be said beyond just sitting back in awe that humans can achieve
link |
That inspires me to do the best, whatever the hell I do, to be the best version of that.
link |
There's something about like athletic feats, especially like strength that just inspire
link |
us to do the best, to be the best version of ourselves.
link |
That's the only thing you should be saying as opposed to criticizing some little detail
link |
It's just awe inspiring that you push yourself to anybody that is at that level.
link |
And this is funny, like in competitive sports, like you go online and people, it's just bash,
link |
bash, bash, bash, bash, bash, bash.
link |
You go talk to anybody, anybody, anybody that's a high level athlete within that field.
link |
And nobody has a single bad thing to say about each other.
link |
But all this chitter chatter down there, I mean, I know exactly what you're saying.
link |
So if you, I would say, cause I have love for all those folks, especially when you're
link |
younger, you have a little bit of that desire to criticize others.
link |
I think that should be channeled in improving your own life.
link |
Anytime that you feel that way, that is when you need to turn inward and it's hard to do,
link |
but there is a reason that you have those emotions around someone else and what they're
link |
doing that you have an opportunity to look at yourself and know why you feel that way.
link |
And that, guess what?
link |
That's going to be the hard thing to do.
link |
That's going to be the thing.
link |
Again, that's stirring you a little bit because it's so much easier to sit there and, or talk
link |
to your confidant or whatever instead of go, why does that bother me?
link |
Why does what that person doing or what that person's achieving bother me?
link |
It's like a difficult question that I often ask others, whether it's better to work hard
link |
I like to ask that question because it helps me get a sense of the human being.
link |
And I think I, let me just say like, I often, I often like people that answer that would
link |
Even though the quote unquote right answer is work smart, meaning like finding the optimal
link |
efficient way to achieve a certain goal, I find that people that answer work smart don't
link |
actually find the optimal efficient way to achieve a goal.
link |
It seems like the people that at least certainly early in life strive to work their ass off,
link |
even that means doing the inefficient, the dumb thing, just to learn the mistake.
link |
The spirit behind the human spirit behind the person that says, or a card is the one
link |
I connect with, but I'm torn, especially in the, in the war culture, in the tech sector
link |
where people answer work smart, what would you, what would you say about that tension?
link |
This definitely encompasses like, I'm the intellectual and I'm the meathead.
link |
I'm the work around the clock and go fix the processes and make it so much better type
link |
That's, that's, that's me in a whole, that's everything.
link |
That's my life story.
link |
Busting your ass to find the easiest way possible to both.
link |
So like I will, I will build a custom hydraulic cart that will lift my plates up to the height
link |
So that I can minimize a roll it over next to it and then minimize the effort of it going
link |
on and off to be able to lift the most amount of weight as possible so, so that I can save
link |
the energy from here, from lifting those up and the fatigue of my back being in bad position.
link |
So I can nearly kill myself over here.
link |
I, my wife, anybody will say, I'm a workaholic.
link |
And the first thing that I would do when it would be doing a company, a company turnaround,
link |
they'd hire me, come in and I would be taking over.
link |
So for someone that wasn't successful, but it was usually hardly ever for lack of want
link |
So a lot of times they knew they were unsuccessful and they were running around working six,
link |
seven days a week, 12 hour days doing so much and it'd be like, well, you need to do this.
link |
And they train me on like all the reports and this and all the things and like, good
link |
And the first thing I would do is nothing.
link |
I would do nothing because then I would find what actually keeps coming back, the things
link |
that I need to do and how much of it was filling the space.
link |
Because so much of human nature when you're failing is to make yourself feel like you're
link |
accomplishing thing.
link |
This is when things go on your list, on your checklist and you start like rolling up.
link |
So you're running around just getting shit done.
link |
And so, but at the same time, like find somewhere in my career, something I've done where I
link |
haven't outworked everybody, just so much on distilling things down to what's important.
link |
And you've got to make time to sit back and assess and think and be introspective.
link |
You have to make time for this because if not, you're going to waste so much time sitting
link |
there walking sideways when all you got to do is move just one step in front of the other
link |
And I say, because it's going to add up, but you could spend six months knocking shit out,
link |
doing your routine, busting your ass and not take that one step.
link |
So you've got to distill stuff down.
link |
You've got to really understand like what's important to you in life and where you're
link |
And, uh, when you're looking at anything in your life, the first thing that you need to
link |
do is figure out, do I need to do it and just quit doing it, just quit doing things in your
link |
And you'll see that a lot of stuff that you think has to be done, doesn't have to be done.
link |
You'd be surprised.
link |
And then from there, this is the tech.
link |
And then of that, what can I, what can I automate?
link |
What can I not have to do in a repeated fashion?
link |
And then the last one, yeah, wherever possible, if it's not something that I'm adding tremendous
link |
value to, like my uniqueness, people are like, oh, you must like do the auto work on your
link |
vehicles cause you love working.
link |
I'm like, fuck that.
link |
And they're like, what?
link |
That doesn't make any sense.
link |
And I'm like, no, I love creating things, but I don't want to do that stuff.
link |
So you could use delegating if you're a manager position, but it's outsourcing, whatever it
link |
But there are also so many things this, and this, this ties back to your point, uh, around
link |
There's a point to like experiencing all levels to really understand things.
link |
You need to spend time at the same time doing all those things.
link |
Cause there could be good, huge, massive gaps in there that you're not aware of that are
link |
key for you or key to be having done different or so on.
link |
So um, like in my company days, I was one of the few executives that came in that could
link |
do anything on the floor from code to machine, run away, the mill weld, do all step into
link |
engineering, like, and, and that added tremendous value to me to having had spent time being
link |
a doer and not enough people want to be, you've got to just go do shit.
link |
You need to spend time in your life chopping wood, you need to have experience trying and
link |
doing all these things that you would never like my skillset is massive because I want
link |
to know, like you need to have those touch points.
link |
My job, my title is chief visionary, but I've spent time doing everything.
link |
It's not about just like creating this amazing strategy or vision.
link |
And I'm just going to be there in this person that directs and like, like you can't be effective.
link |
You cannot connect the dots unless you've been in the moment with everything.
link |
Sometimes it's doing stupid shit that you're not uniquely qualified to do that anybody
link |
could do, but you did it anyway.
link |
Just the training environment.
link |
People hit me up at a, at a, at a school or wherever like, Hey, how do I get into, I want
link |
to grow my, grow my brand online.
link |
I want to do this.
link |
Like, where do I, where do I start?
link |
And I'm like, go get a job at planet fitness or 24 hour fitness.
link |
They're like, but I want to, you know, where, how do I get, you know, recognized and write
link |
articles and be an online coach.
link |
I'm like, you need to go spend a few years one on one training people to learn like the
link |
interaction, how people respond, there's base levels you have to do.
link |
You've got to go work your way up from the ground.
link |
I truly believe it.
link |
Well, I think that's the hard work piece that I'm speaking to that I like it when people
link |
have been humbled by the hardness of life, like how difficult it is to do stuff.
link |
And it does, I went and got my MBA, I went to MIT.
link |
I don't need to do that stuff.
link |
And since you've been humbled by doing those things, I feel like you can truly explore
link |
the optimization that you're talking to, finding the ways where you're uniquely capable to
link |
add value to the world.
link |
And then, and then again, work your ass off to be the best in the world at that thing.
link |
But then don't waste your time on shit that's not aligned.
link |
That's the only, so that's, I guess there's a lot of context I put around that, but.
link |
Yeah, that was like a long answer to a, a long, beautiful answer to an unanswerable
link |
Do you have advice outside of all this discussion to young people today about career, about
link |
Since you've done so many things, you've overcome a lot of things.
link |
Think high school, college student, thinking about what to do in their life.
link |
Do you have advice for those guys and girls?
link |
First is you don't have it figured out, so don't worry.
link |
We talked, you know, a lot about understanding your values and aligning all that stuff, but
link |
you got to have a base level of start exploring and learning and just spending the time doing
link |
like pick something, let me elaborate a little bit.
link |
No, you know what?
link |
A lot of people struggle with that aspect now because the choice, there's so much choice
link |
it's difficult to pick something, but I think it does blow down to you should pick something
link |
and don't worry about it.
link |
And then, but within that you can start discovering the things that are there for you.
link |
Like I, I talked about, I made this huge shift, I threw away whole life, but I don't regret
link |
anything about that.
link |
I wouldn't be where I was if I didn't walk through and learn those things.
link |
And in fact, in the course of that, I learned just how much that inspiring people and helping
link |
them realize the potential far beyond what they thought was capable.
link |
That was leadership 101 in managing people base level, floor level, right?
link |
And I got a lot out that was perfectly aligned with what, and that's what I realized.
link |
It didn't matter what industry I was in or any of those other things, but I was able,
link |
you can see so many things, there's so many paths that you can go down to help you realize
link |
what those things are.
link |
And you're going to be able to find a lot of those nuggets and develop those.
link |
Do you think that I could have just gone to school and got out and started a globally
link |
recognized brand within a few years without having been schooled in business while getting
link |
paid for it by others for years?
link |
And in fact, that entire time I knew that that's what I wanted to do, but I didn't go
link |
I mentored some of my friends along the same path to go, no, they're like, I'm ready.
link |
I'm ready to go do this.
link |
And I'm like, no, now you need to go get a job.
link |
Yeah, you know, engineering management, design, all that stuff.
link |
Go get a job as a manager now.
link |
Like, oh, that's a step down.
link |
I'm like, go try it.
link |
A couple of years later, oh my God, that was such a good move.
link |
I didn't know what I didn't know.
link |
And now they're an executive for freaking a fortune 500 company.
link |
And the same thing, like I sat there knowing that I was getting a free education.
link |
Don't stress yourself out as my, that's my advice.
link |
Don't stress yourself out that you've got to have this perfect thing because this process
link |
of understanding your values and the introspect, that takes time.
link |
You can get a job where you're getting paid to learn.
link |
That's a good deal before you launch on your own.
link |
You mentioned going back to darkness.
link |
I'm Russian, so I like going back to darkness.
link |
You suffer from depression.
link |
You consider suicide.
link |
Do you ponder your own death these days?
link |
Do you think about your mortality?
link |
Are you afraid of death?
link |
I definitely think about mortality.
link |
And am I afraid of my own death?
link |
It depends on the moment.
link |
If I'm in the middle of a project, I definitely want to finish that project, man.
link |
But I don't fear it so much.
link |
I fear leaving my kids or my wife and not being able to be there for them.
link |
Outside of that, I know that I put everything into the life that I've lived.
link |
Like you said, there's always more, but I've lived hard.
link |
Every moment in my life, I've made connections and impacted people around me for the better.
link |
And this tracks back, which is crazy when we were doing the documentary and they're
link |
interviewing people through my whole life and the consistency of the themes of anyone,
link |
like anything for Duffin, like just sure, I'll fly in from Boston.
link |
These people, it was crazy.
link |
Everybody had a story about me giving, just over and over.
link |
And I didn't even really.
link |
It's just the way you were.
link |
I have a lot more I want to do, but I don't have things that regret have not done in like,
link |
It's like the, I don't know if you know the Bukowski poem, go all the way, otherwise don't
link |
It seems like you embody that poem and you've accomplished some incredible things and serve
link |
as an inspiration to a huge number of people.
link |
Chris, you're an amazing human being.
link |
I'm really honored that you would spend your valuable time with me.
link |
Thank you so much for talking with me today.
link |
It was incredible.
link |
I can't wait to check out all the cool stuff you've engineered with Kabuki Strength.
link |
So I'm obviously, I love the, I love strength.
link |
I love strength training.
link |
I love the idea of strength.
link |
I love the equipment and the engineering approach that you take to strength.
link |
You're an incredible human, both on the things you've accomplished in terms of your own strength
link |
feats and the kind of science and engineering you bring to the field that many others could
link |
So thank you so much for talking to me.
link |
Thanks for having me on.
link |
That was quite the final thing.
link |
Thanks for listening to this conversation with Chris Duffin and thank you to Headspace,
link |
Magic Spoon, Sun Basket and Ladder.
link |
Check them out in the description to support this podcast.
link |
And now let me leave you with some words from Arnold Schwarzenegger.
link |
Strength does not come from winning.
link |
Your struggles develop your strengths.
link |
When you go through hardship and decide not to surrender, that is strength.
link |
Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.