back to indexMark Normand: Comedy! | Lex Fridman Podcast #255
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The following is a conversation with Mark Normand,
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a New York comedian who has a way with words
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that is often both dark and hilarious.
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Let there be a warning, dear friends,
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to proceed with caution and to wear protection.
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You may, in fact, need it.
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He has a special on his YouTube called Out to Lunch
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and a new special on Netflix
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as part of the standup season three series
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I recommend you watch.
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This is the Lex Friedman podcast.
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To support it, please check out our sponsors
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in the description.
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And now, here's my conversation with Mark Normand.
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I asked Tim Dillon about Bukowski first,
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so let me continue on that tradition
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and ask you about something
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that Charles Bukowski said about love.
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Wait, are we rolling?
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No hello, no nothing.
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Nope. I thought I was robotic.
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Bukowski said, love is a fog that burns away
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with the first daylight of reality.
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So Mark Normand, let me first ask you about love.
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What are your thoughts about love?
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You talk about your relationships quite a bit.
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Do you think love can last?
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I do, but I think it's work.
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Everybody wants love to be this prepackaged,
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perfect euphoric thing, but you gotta,
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it's like a good body, you know?
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We're all born with a good body,
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but you gotta keep it in shape.
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And it's the same with a loving relationship.
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Nobody wants to do the work, that's the problem.
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You talked about, I think you told a story
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about being unfaithful to a previous girlfriend
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or something like that.
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I think the story goes that you were like drifting apart.
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Who were you talking to?
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Burt Kreischer maybe or something like that?
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Oh yeah, we were high school sweethearts,
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dated for like 12 years and then.
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So that wasn't love anymore.
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That was more like relationship, that was like.
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It was comfort, it was routine.
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And we just slipped into that married life autopilot world.
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And I tried to break up, I think, and it didn't take.
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It was one of those things.
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Our lives are just so baked in.
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And then I think I cheated and she caught me
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And then we went to therapy to try to work it out,
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but it's much like a car that gets into a wreck.
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The door just never closed the same.
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You know what I mean?
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Yeah, so what are your thoughts about then commitment
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like outside of love marriage?
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I think it's an antiquated idea.
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I think it's kind of silly and unrealistic.
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And I think we're coming out of that
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as we get all polyamorous and non binary
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and queefy and all this stuff.
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I think we're slowly moving away from that.
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But I think a lot of the ladies,
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more majority women like marriage, like the idea of it.
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Like I'm a fiance now or whatever you call it.
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And I mean, she is just woo wee going hog wild.
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She's got the dress thing, pick a venue flower
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and she's deep in whereas I feel guilty
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because I'm just like, ah, geez.
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Is it planned already?
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When's the wedding?
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You see Squid Game, I'm just living life.
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Yeah, it's planned.
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It's in New Orleans.
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I'm from there and it's next year.
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I bet you'd be great in bed.
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Best hairline in podcasting.
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Yeah, I don't know.
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I haven't tried yet.
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So we'll have to see.
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All right, well, let me know.
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Pretty big hog on you?
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Yeah, I could see you packing a crazy, crazy tool downtown.
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That matters to girls?
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Apparently, yeah, that's all I hear about.
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Okay, New Orleans.
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You grew up in New Orleans?
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Yeah, born and raised.
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Treme outside the French Quarter.
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Have you ever been?
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Yeah, don't remember it.
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Of course I drink.
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I don't know, I can't tell if you have fun.
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But in Russia, of course I drink vodka,
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all that kind of stuff.
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Oh, right, in Russia.
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Beer was just labeled an alcoholic beverage in 2011.
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It was just drinks.
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It was just like apple juice before.
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It finally got declared legally as an alcoholic beverage.
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Which means you can regulate it, that kind of thing.
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See, that's where your brain goes.
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I just go, oh, these fucking Ruskies are.
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I didn't even know there was rules about drinking.
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This is good, I'm learning about Russia from you.
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So what's the difficult memory, experience from childhood
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in New Orleans that made you the man you are today?
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I don't know if it made me the man,
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but jeez, I had a lot of scuffles in the neighborhood.
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I was the white kid in the neighborhood.
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So I was automatically the odd man out, the minority,
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the weirdo, the dork, the dweeb, the honky.
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So just a lot of memories of like getting slapped
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in the face by guys and just having to take it
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because there's like five guys there.
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And they'd be like, oh, look, you didn't even fight back.
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And you're like, what am I going to do?
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Hit you and then get beat up by these guys?
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So a lot of that stuff was a big bummer growing up.
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Got robbed all the time, lost a lot of bicycles,
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had a bicycle taken from under me, that was pretty brutal.
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These kids pulled up, you know, they're like 17
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and I was 13 and I had a face paint on.
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Like I had a, not black face, but I was at a summer camp
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and I had a rainbow face painted on me.
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We were helping kids that day.
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So I let them put paint on me.
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And so now I'm riding home.
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What a mark, what a goober I am.
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I'm riding home and these guys see me a mile away.
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I'm a sitting duck and they go, we can take his bike.
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He's got a fucking rainbow on his cheek.
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So they just go, hey, you know, like cut in front of you.
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They go, let me try your bike.
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I go, I'm good, I'm good.
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I knew what they wanted.
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And they go, let me try the bike.
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And then they just pushed me and took the bike.
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So stuff like that was really shaping the insecurity,
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Did it, cause I've been mugged when I was younger too.
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Yeah, it changes your view of human nature a little bit.
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You go, wow, I didn't know people could be this mean.
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I'm always worried about it.
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Did I fart too much?
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Am I pissing this guy off?
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But what a way to live.
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Just, I want the bike, I'm taking it.
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Fuck his feelings.
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For me, that quickly turned into realizing
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that that's just a temporary phase that those folks are in.
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Like they have a capacity to be good.
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For some reason, for me, that was a motivation to see,
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can we discover, can we incentivize them
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to find like a better path in life?
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Like I wasn't like all like, I don't know, Gandhi about it.
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Of course I was pissed and all those kinds of things,
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but I don't know, it seemed like just the kind of thing
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you might do when you're younger.
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But this is adult crime, obviously.
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Yeah, I know, but yeah, exactly.
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And then it solidifies and then you're beyond saving
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at some point, but it's like, there's always,
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there's always an opportunity to make a better life
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for yourself, to become a better version of yourself.
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Yeah, and I remember coming home crying with no bike
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and my mom, my parents are like liberal to a fault.
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You know, where they were like, oh, well they need it.
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They're poor kids in the neighborhood.
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And you're like, all right, but I also like have a bicycle
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that I ride around, you know, and I also like to live
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in an area that's not just, you know, riddled with theft
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and vandalism, but they were just like, oh, they need it.
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And then it was a moot point, we just moved on.
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So I remember very young being like, all right,
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I gotta figure my shit out.
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Okay, so you said you were beat up quite a bit,
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like bullying and stuff.
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Pushed around, I was never hospitalized or anything,
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but you know, you get a black guy here and there
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and a bloody nose, stuff like that.
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And it was just the outnumbered thing.
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The violence didn't really bother me
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because you're just kids, you're boys.
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But it was the predatory, let's get him.
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You know, we can take him down.
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He's, you know, he's an easy target.
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That's what kills you, the mental part.
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Yeah, you know, until you actually said I didn't realize,
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I've been in, what do you call them, scuffles.
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And there was just one that stands out to me where, yeah.
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Let's hear it, Faddy, bring it on.
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And you do jujitsu and all that stuff, right?
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Yeah, I can see the guns through the suit,
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you're like John Wick.
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All right, well, I used to have,
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now you're gonna start making fun of me,
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I used to have long hair for like a couple of years.
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I was in a band playing music and stuff like that.
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And there was, like most of the fights I've been in
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were basically one on one, maybe a little bit like,
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a little extra stuff, but not outnumbered.
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And this one particular time,
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I've learned a lot of lessons,
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but one of them was, there was a fight started
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between me and this other person.
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And then his buddies, I guess, were there.
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And they, as opposed to like breaking it up
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or letting it happen, one of them grabbed my hair.
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It's the first time anybody grabbed,
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like used my hair in a fight,
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which I haven't since then realized that that's actually
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a really powerful grip and a powerful weapon.
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Oh, very vulnerable of you.
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And then my head got pulled back
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and they pulled me down to the ground.
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Like I couldn't do anything, it was so,
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I remember being exceptionally frustrated.
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That was the feeling like, I can't do anything here.
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And then they were just like kicking me and hitting me
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and stuff like that.
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And the outnumbered part of it,
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because I always kind of remember the trapped part
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because I just hated from a fighting grappling perspective,
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how like, the feeling was this isn't fair.
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Yes, that's what it is.
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It's a deep, deep unfairness that you just can't win.
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Yeah, the mob wins.
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But it makes a man out of you in a weird way
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that builds character, you realize life isn't fair early
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and you go on from there.
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So there's something there.
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And look at you today.
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They're probably eating out of a dumpster
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at a Krispy Kreme and you're here,
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got eight podcasts, you're doing great,
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talking to giant titans of the industry.
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No, I do remember returning home that night.
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I mean that you said you were crying.
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That's really formative.
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Like that's the point in which you get to decide
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what do I make of this moment?
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I mean, especially when you're younger,
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maybe it's not presented to you that way,
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but like some of the greatest people in history
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were bullied in these kinds of ways.
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And they made something of themselves in this moment,
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like bullied by life in some kind of way.
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It's like an opportunity for growth.
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It's weird, but like hardship even in small doses
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is like an opportunity for growth.
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Totally, I mean, look at Richard Pryor.
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They say he's labeled as the best comedian of all time.
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Grew up in a whorehouse,
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watch his mom get plowed by these guys
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in the middle of Indiana, I wanna say.
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And just who had a harder life?
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He would suck dick for drugs,
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all this stuff growing up, beat up.
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And then the weird thing is, oops, sorry,
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that's my birth control alarm.
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And then the whole world is like trying
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to get rid of bullying, but we still do bullying,
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but now it's accepted bullying.
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It's very strange.
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So you're a proponent of beating kids up,
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is that what you're saying?
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Yes, and sex with them.
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But no, I just think it's part of life
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and it's horrible, it's like rain, you gotta have it.
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Look, a rainy day is a bummer, but you need it.
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And I think it's similar to that.
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What was your relationship like with your mom, your dad?
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What are some memorable moments with them?
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What did you learn from them?
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Good parents, they're giving, thoughtful.
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A little out to lunch, they were workaholics,
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so it was hard to get a lot out of them.
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And my dad was kind of an angry dad.
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I think he just had like a weird childhood
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and he's just trying to make it
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and he's trying to provide, but it's hard.
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And we live in this horrible neighborhood
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and we're getting robbed all the time.
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So life was kind of coming down on him all the time.
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So then he'll take it out on you or whoever, he would snap.
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But great parents, they cared, they put us first,
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but there wasn't a lot of, you ever go to a friend's house
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as a kid and there's like a picture of a ski trip
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and you're like, ski trip?
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What the hell is that about?
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It wasn't a lot of that and smart, very smart people,
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but I don't know how well they were at socializing.
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So you never like bonded with them
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like on a deep human level?
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Some bonding, but rarely deep.
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Yeah, it was just almost coworker.
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Hey, cold out, huh?
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It's cold out, huh?
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Oh yeah, like that kind of stuff.
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Yeah, yeah, I got you.
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Get there a little bit, but my parents are done.
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I hope they never saw this, but they would do a thing
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where my dad especially would do a thing
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where he would, he knew how to cut you down
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right to the bone and so after a while you're like,
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I'm not even gonna interact with this guy
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because he can get you so well.
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One time we were at like a Thanksgiving,
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some kind of family event and all the cousins are there
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and I remember I was holding court.
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I was a young boy finding my comedic legs
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in this weird tumultuous sea we call a family
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and I was killing and my dad comes out and he goes,
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what are you holding court?
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And I was like, ah, and I felt like I was this big.
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I just whoo, shrunk down.
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He just nailed it because in my head I'm like,
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I'm holding court, look at me, I got the whole room
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and he goes, what are you, what are you holding court here?
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And I'm like, who the hell do you think you are?
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And I was like, he's right, I shouldn't be holding court,
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who the fuck am I, I'm nobody.
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So stuff like that.
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Was he aware of that you think?
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He wasn't, he wasn't, I don't think he was, but.
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Do you give parents a pass when they're unaware
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of the destructive, like is it better when they're unaware?
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Because it seems like that's the way.
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That's the way parents often fail
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is they're not intentionally malevolent,
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they're just like clueless.
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Yeah, it's a bittersweet thing
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because you're like, well, okay, he's not malicious,
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he's not trying to hurt me,
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but also he doesn't know he hurt me.
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I don't know, it's tough
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because if he was trying to hurt you,
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I guess that would be worse.
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So you're the fully baked Mark Norman cake at this point
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Yeah, it's a shitty cake.
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You know, the sense of self worth you mentioned.
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I think in your comedy,
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there's a sense like you hate yourself.
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I didn't know if that came through.
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Shit, I was trying to hide that part.
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I mean, when you like in the privacy of your own mind,
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are you able to love yourself or is it mostly self hate?
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Jeez, what happened to this podcast?
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I didn't know I was on Dr. Phil.
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I thought we were gonna talk about engineering
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and climate change and rockets.
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Starts with love, goes to rockets.
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All right, I like that.
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I like that's a t shirt.
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What's the question?
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Yeah, yeah, so are you like this engine
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of being self critical
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of just being constantly anxious
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about how the world perceives you, these kinds of things?
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Is this something that you just go to for comedy
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or is this who you are as a human being?
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I think I don't wanna explore it.
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I think I get around it.
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You know, I tap dance around it,
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but I get it out a little with my act maybe,
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because I can't do it.
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I'm not doing it in real life.
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So I'll get out this no love, not loving myself.
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I don't know who wants to love themself.
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Everybody always like you gotta love yourself.
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And then when you meet somebody who does love yourself,
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you're like, I fucking hate this guy.
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Don't you hate the guy who's upset?
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I'm great, I'm awesome.
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You're like, ah, this guy sucks.
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I'd rather an insecure guy.
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So maybe I wanna stay insecure.
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Maybe I don't wanna find this love for myself.
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So self love, like just appreciating who you are,
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or like appreciating the moment of being grateful
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doesn't have to express itself
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by the guy saying I'm awesome.
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It's more just like humility.
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It's just like walking calmly through the world
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and just being grateful to be alive,
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that kind of thing.
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And like, oh, being appreciative
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of all the accomplishments you've made so far.
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I say all this because mostly I'm extremely self critical
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in everything I do.
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And so, and I kind of enjoy it.
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I think it's a nice little engine that it makes it fun.
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It makes life fun,
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because it's like if you hate everything you do,
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like you've done in the past,
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that gives you like, all right, we can do better.
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Yes, but that's the key is making yourself critical.
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Always trying to get better.
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I could change this, I could tweak this,
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I could improve this.
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When you just go, I hate that I do this, I suck,
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you just shut down.
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So that's the key is always being productive
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with the criticism.
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Yeah, and the basics of life,
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I'm just like grateful for it, to be alive.
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That's nice to be coupled that with self criticism.
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Two legs, again, the hairline, the hog,
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the muscles, the world.
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You got a good brain on you.
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I mean, you're lucky.
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You're in the top,
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most people are fat as shit at Burger King right now,
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hitting their kids.
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You're in a Ramada hotel,
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sitting with a low level comedian.
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For the record, I ate McDonald's last night.
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Oh, all right, well, you're human.
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Well, just so you know, this is not me defending,
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I'm not sponsored by McDonald's,
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but I mostly eat meat,
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and there's nothing wrong with the beef they have.
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It's actually one of the easiest ways late at night.
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I think it's worse.
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I don't know if it's actually cow.
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It's actually rats.
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Yeah, you're right.
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But hey, it's just meat.
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I'm a meat guy myself.
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They say in 20 years, we're gonna look back
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and go, can you believe people ate meat?
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It's gonna look like somebody like slavery.
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Yeah, there's some ethical,
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difficult things with factory farming.
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Yeah, so let's ride it out now while we still got it.
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And now it's on record.
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Tom Waits says something about New York.
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You like Tom Waits?
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I think he's underrated.
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I think he's got great,
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he's got a great, he's great at quips and quotes.
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Check him out on YouTube.
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He's got some montages and super cuts
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of him being hilarious.
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What does he say about,
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I'd rather have a bottle in front of me
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than a frontal lobotomy.
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That was the one that sold me.
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I was like, this guy's awesome.
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Yeah, but his music,
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cause he's just a genius musician.
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Anyway, he was talking about New York.
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I was walking around, I'm in New York right now.
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We're in New York right now.
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It's still a magical city to me.
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A lot of people are quite cynical about it,
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about the state of things, but.
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Not like Michael Malice, like a lot of friends of mine,
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they're just a lot of folks in San Francisco and New York,
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there's something about the pandemic
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where people have become quite cynical
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about the place they are and they try to escape.
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I mean, they're asking some difficult questions
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about what they are in life.
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They're having like a self imposed midlife crisis.
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It's good, I think, for everybody to go through this process.
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But I think, I hope New York reemerges.
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As the flourishing place for the weirdos.
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Anyway, Tom Waits said,
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New York, of course, is to be in endless surreal situations
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where a $50,000 gun metal Mercedes
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pulls up in a puddle of blood
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and out steps a 25 carat blonde with a $2 wristwatch.
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And he goes, he keeps going on.
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So like, it's like a.
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That's like bars, he's like a rapper.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's good.
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But basically, just the absurdity of it all.
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Lots of money, lots of weirdos, degenerates,
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and dreamers, and the whole mix of it.
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Do you think that's an accurate description
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of what New York is today?
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Like, is there still place for the weirdos
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and just the interesting artists,
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the edgy, the comedians, the creators,
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the entrepreneurs, as opposed to like Wall Street,
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as opposed to like rich folk,
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and then like hopeless folk?
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Yeah, I think it's definitely changed a lot.
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There's a tiny corner for us weirdo artists.
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New York used to be where you went to make it
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as a painter or whatever, a comedian or a singer.
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And there were all these dives and shit boxes
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and all these places you could go.
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And now it's more Pink Berries
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and Subway Sandwiches and Chase Banks.
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So it's definitely lost a lot of its creative edge.
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It's just money, money keeps coming in.
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And now you see all these comedians move to Nashville,
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Austin, Denver, whatever.
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So it doesn't have the power it used to have
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of like, you gotta be here if you wanna make it.
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That's definitely gone.
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So that hurt the city a lot.
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The city is way more soulless.
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When I moved here in 07,
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I mean, not only did I get mugged three times
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in the first year, but it was a hub of like,
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it felt like things were happening here.
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It was an energy, it was electricity.
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And we still have the electricity,
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but it's also maybe just cause there's Times Square,
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there's Soho, there's Wall Street.
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So we got the staples, but there is a little bit of that.
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It's almost like a marriage.
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Like, yeah, we're in love,
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but it's not as passionate as it once was.
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That's how I would equate New York.
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What gives you hope?
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You're pretty hopeful about it though.
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I'm hopeful just cause I know it's magical
link |
and I think it has to be.
link |
I mean, it's the epicenter of America.
link |
Like this is where the immigrants came
link |
and this is where the stock market is
link |
and the entertainment industry, a lot of it is here.
link |
So I think it's gonna happen,
link |
but something like the bottom has to fall out
link |
and then people have to move back here and all that.
link |
So something, the corporations are kind of fucking us.
link |
They're just buying everything.
link |
Well, that's true for everything.
link |
That's true for everything.
link |
This is true for Austin probably as well.
link |
People are just buying out land and all that kind of stuff.
link |
You always hear a Hemingway and Dali
link |
and all these guys went to Paris in the 20s
link |
or whatever that was.
link |
I used to be like, why do these guys go to Paris?
link |
Why do these artists?
link |
Cause it's like, it's freer there.
link |
That's why Austin became like that Paris
link |
where everybody's like, I gotta get out of LA.
link |
And maybe, but we came back from that.
link |
70s were wild and 90s were cool.
link |
So maybe it'll come back.
link |
Might just take a decade.
link |
Well, there's always, that's how stories are told.
link |
There's always pockets of like Paris within New York.
link |
There's just an opportunity to let your weird flourish
link |
is there in New York, I'm sure.
link |
You gotta find it.
link |
Before it was front and center.
link |
What's your favorite thing about New York?
link |
Like what kind of things just like.
link |
I mean, how long is this pod?
link |
It's just, it's too much to put into one hour.
link |
We've got other questions, but I love that one neighborhood
link |
is wildly different than the next.
link |
I'm in Little Italy and then you take four steps.
link |
Now I'm in Chinatown.
link |
I mean, and then the history there and then the stories
link |
and the food and the culture and all that.
link |
And then you go 10 feet over here.
link |
Now you're in Brooklyn.
link |
And this is insane as a whole nother world.
link |
And it's almost like a little America in one,
link |
you know, city and it's great.
link |
And just the fact that they pulled it off
link |
like Fifth Avenue goes way up.
link |
And you're like, there's a billionaire's house
link |
And then this is a black guy who's fighting with a Cuban guy
link |
and an Asian guy is trying to get in the middle of them.
link |
And the cabbie's from the Middle East.
link |
And there's so many beautiful women here.
link |
And there's so many brilliant minds here.
link |
And the pace is great.
link |
It keeps people moving.
link |
I mean, it just, you can't beat it.
link |
And the city will fuck you in the ass too.
link |
Don't get me wrong.
link |
You landed JFK and you're like, oh God, I got mugged.
link |
My Uber driver called me a homo.
link |
I stepped in human shit.
link |
Where the fuck am I?
link |
So yeah, it's bad news.
link |
But that bad news, it's almost like the bullying.
link |
It kills you in a weird way, but it makes you stronger.
link |
And you build more layers and layers and layers.
link |
That's why some new guys,
link |
some hayseed from Milwaukee shows up.
link |
You've been here 10 years and you go,
link |
let me help you out.
link |
Cause you gotta adjust.
link |
You're gonna get your ass kicked for like six months.
link |
But I know the ropes a little,
link |
and I think you need a little of that.
link |
If the treadmill's not on, you're not gonna run.
link |
New York, the treadmill's on.
link |
So it just makes you run and it makes you better.
link |
And look, it wears on you.
link |
You probably lose 10 years of your life
link |
living in New York versus Indianapolis,
link |
but it's a better life.
link |
Have you seen 25th Hour?
link |
Yeah, it's been a while.
link |
Yeah, Spike Lee joint.
link |
I mean, at Norton, there's a whole monologue there
link |
They're talking about just, he has like a mix.
link |
There's like melancholy music, I think,
link |
or just a melancholy feel to the whole thing.
link |
But there's an anger and a disgust with the city.
link |
But through the anger and the disgust
link |
comes out like a love for the city.
link |
Same with, was Taxi Driver in New York?
link |
Oh yeah, it's going crazy.
link |
Yeah, so like that, there's something about, what is that?
link |
What is that grit of the city that like pushes you down?
link |
Well, that's the beauty of this city
link |
is it's this tribal human nature,
link |
like the sex shops and fistfights and racism
link |
and all this tension,
link |
but yet it's the epicenter of technology and finance
link |
and sophistication on Fifth Avenue.
link |
So you get that juxtaposition.
link |
It's kind of like in Boston.
link |
You go to Boston, they got MIT, they got Harvard,
link |
they got all this shit.
link |
And then they got the fishermen, the blue collar douchebags,
link |
the Irish guys, the immigrants,
link |
and you get that mix of like insanely smart
link |
with wicked pisser and these two worlds.
link |
And that's a good thing.
link |
It's like when a black guy fucks an Asian lady,
link |
that's a good looking kid.
link |
We're mixing two totally different things
link |
are coming together and it makes it,
link |
it's like peanut butter and chocolate.
link |
Peanut butter and chocolate, I've never tried that.
link |
Peanut butter, maybe I have.
link |
You're talking about Reese's, man.
link |
Like Reese's, yeah, yeah, yeah.
link |
Oh, it's the best candy.
link |
Yeah, without the fakeness of LA,
link |
without the kind of, with the facade.
link |
What's the difference between LA comedy
link |
and New York comedy to you?
link |
I think one place you kind of go to make it
link |
and be discovered and be loved,
link |
and one place you go, you can get all that in New York too,
link |
but I think in New York, it's more of a school,
link |
a bootcamp of comedy.
link |
Let's make great comedy.
link |
Let's make original comedy.
link |
Let's watch the other guys and gals
link |
who are at the show at the clubs and learn from them
link |
and try to hang out with them and absorb some of them.
link |
And in LA, it's like, when am I on?
link |
I'm next, get out of my way.
link |
I'm the star here.
link |
I'm a bigger star than you.
link |
Oh, this guy's actually a big star.
link |
I got to outwork, you know, it's just a lot of that
link |
instead of like, damn, that was funny.
link |
I got to be that funny.
link |
Damn, I wish I had a joke.
link |
And look, I don't want to speak for LA comics
link |
because there's, you know, Bill Burr, Anthony Jeslenek,
link |
brilliant LA comic, but they all cut their teeth
link |
in New York, just saying.
link |
Then they moved to LA.
link |
That's a good point.
link |
You know, Ali Wong, all these people, killer comics,
link |
but New York, started in New York, moved to New York.
link |
There is something about comics that stay in New York
link |
for a long time though, like Dave Attell.
link |
Ah, you know about Dave?
link |
Yeah, yeah, he wants to do this podcast.
link |
Yeah, I'm a huge fan of Dave Attell.
link |
But it's like, he almost like he doesn't want to make it.
link |
I mean, you probably know him, but like,
link |
it feels like you just, maybe it's romanticizing it,
link |
but you're like, you almost just love the art of comedy,
link |
like becoming funnier, crafting the jokes,
link |
becoming funnier than the other comics,
link |
like competing with each other kind of thing,
link |
not over like money or fame or any of that,
link |
just purely the comedy of it.
link |
Totally, that's Dave.
link |
That's him in a nutshell.
link |
He's like that guy in the movies in the 80s,
link |
action movies, where they're like,
link |
they go up to a creek in Montana,
link |
and some guy's living in a cabin,
link |
and he's sharpening a stick, and they go,
link |
the Russians are coming, they're invading.
link |
We need you, you're the best commando.
link |
And he's like, I gave that up, man.
link |
I'm done with that lifestyle.
link |
They're like, but you're the best, we need you.
link |
And he has to suit up eventually.
link |
You know, he looks at a picture of his dead wife,
link |
and he goes, fuck it, I'm going.
link |
And then they, you know, fight the Ruskies.
link |
But he's that guy.
link |
He just is gifted.
link |
He's like got a gift from Allah, and he's the best.
link |
Yeah, a lot of comics give him props.
link |
That's always surprising to me.
link |
Because it's surprising to me
link |
because he hasn't really made it, like big.
link |
In the 90s, he was huge.
link |
He had his own TV show.
link |
Yeah, yeah, that show was awesome.
link |
But I mean, like as big as I think he deserves to be.
link |
The mainstream shit is always the worst.
link |
It's like McDonald's versus some hole in the wall.
link |
I know I'm shitting on McDonald's again, but it's good.
link |
And you know, certain comics we could name are good,
link |
but the delicacy is going to be less talked about
link |
and less household namey than the mainstream hacky shit.
link |
Yeah, it's funny because he hasn't,
link |
I think it was on Joe Rogan's show once, maybe.
link |
Yeah, once or twice.
link |
And he was with somebody else.
link |
Yeah, he might have known Jeff Ross.
link |
Oh yeah, because they did that like two mics thing,
link |
Oh, big mics, yeah.
link |
But he's the quickest guy.
link |
There's no one funnier.
link |
Yeah, him and you, you're super quick.
link |
Your appearance on, recent appearance on Rogan's hilarious.
link |
You're on with Ari and...
link |
Yeah, that was fun.
link |
We're going back in January.
link |
I don't know when this comes out.
link |
This has never come out.
link |
All right, so what does it feel like to bomb
link |
in standup comedy, like to fail?
link |
Maybe the psychology of it first,
link |
like just take me through it.
link |
Cause we're talking about being outnumbered in a fight,
link |
just being beat up.
link |
By the way, this is like a no eye contact off.
link |
Yeah, we're both uncomfortable with it.
link |
It's kind of nice to be with my people, but yeah.
link |
Do you need a sheet of paper to look at it?
link |
I'm going, I got a good sweet spot right there.
link |
Yeah, it's a nightmare, but it's part of it.
link |
It's the validation too is the worst part.
link |
Cause you know, whenever you do comedy and kill,
link |
you can be a great comic,
link |
but even David Tell, these brilliant guys,
link |
they feel like they're getting,
link |
you feel like you're getting away with something.
link |
I don't have a day job.
link |
I'm telling jokes for a living.
link |
I'm talking about my dick up here
link |
and they're fucking loving me.
link |
And they call me a genius and all this.
link |
I'm talking about my sack, you know?
link |
It makes people happy and it's funny,
link |
but that bombing, when you bomb,
link |
your first thought is like, yeah, you're right.
link |
At first you're like, fuck you guys.
link |
What, you don't like this shit?
link |
And then you just start going in.
link |
You're like, man, maybe it isn't that good.
link |
Maybe they're right.
link |
I should become a mailman, you know?
link |
And it stinks and you feel alone.
link |
And you feel like you wasted their time.
link |
And then you're like, what was I thinking?
link |
I could be a comedian.
link |
What the fuck, who am I?
link |
You know, Eddie Murphy, what am I doing here?
link |
So it's a lot of just spiraling out of horrible thoughts.
link |
But I also love that it hurts so bad.
link |
Bombing fucking hurts because now everybody doesn't do it.
link |
I think a lot more people could do comedy probably
link |
and figure it out.
link |
But the bombing is so brutal
link |
that it keeps, one time I went to Minneapolis.
link |
I was like, this is a great city.
link |
I mean, it's a sun is shining.
link |
Why isn't this city like packed?
link |
And they're like, cause the winters are so bad
link |
and we love it because it keeps everybody out.
link |
And I feel like the same about comedy.
link |
The bombs are so brutal.
link |
I've had bombs where I'm in bed.
link |
I'm just staring at the ceiling like, what the fuck was that?
link |
Like you have PTSD.
link |
I bombed at an arena once, 20,000 people.
link |
I did 30 minutes to silence.
link |
So it's not just like one joke fails.
link |
It's like they start piling on like it's irrecoverable.
link |
And one joke failing is very common.
link |
Like a lot of audience don't even notice like that bomb.
link |
Cause you get, you know, you've got so many jokes in a row.
link |
You can sandwich a good one, then a bad one,
link |
But when you bomb, it's almost like they chose,
link |
we don't like you.
link |
Nothing you say will redeem yourself.
link |
And it's hard to get out of.
link |
It's like being pulled down by your hair.
link |
You can't get back.
link |
I can't win this fight no matter what.
link |
Can you like get them back by acknowledging
link |
like the elephant in the room that like.
link |
That helps, but they're still gonna go,
link |
that was funny when he made fun of it, but he sucks.
link |
That's the worst part.
link |
You're going, no, this is good.
link |
You guys just don't like me.
link |
Just cause you don't like me doesn't mean I'm bad.
link |
Yeah, I like going to open mics a lot.
link |
Just listening because first of all,
link |
I think the audience in open mic,
link |
at least the ones I've been to,
link |
is mostly I guess other comedians
link |
or like at least people who don't seem
link |
to want to laugh at anything.
link |
And so I just love it because it's human nature
link |
and perseverance that is best.
link |
That here's comedians, like clearly,
link |
this is mostly in Austin.
link |
They have a dream.
link |
Like why would you get up there?
link |
Right, maybe some weird, you know,
link |
New Year's resolution bullshit,
link |
but for the most part, it's people who want to be comedians.
link |
Like a lot of the open micers are people
link |
who clearly have done this for quite a long time already.
link |
Like at least a year or two, maybe five years.
link |
And they're often not very funny.
link |
And just bombing in front of an audience of like 20
link |
where they're just sitting there,
link |
like almost like mocking them with their eyes
link |
or maybe, and I don't know, and they still push through.
link |
They still like, as if they're doing an arena
link |
and everybody's laughing.
link |
They still got that energy trying.
link |
Almost like to an audience that doesn't exist.
link |
Like an audience of their dreams.
link |
Cause I guess that you have to do that
link |
to keep the energy of the act going.
link |
And it's just so beautiful to watch them try it.
link |
And also what happens, open mic,
link |
I don't know, five minutes, whatever they do,
link |
they walk off and then walk back off stage.
link |
And like, you can't, who do they look at?
link |
Like what do you look at, do you make eye contact
link |
with people, do you?
link |
You look at your phone, you look at your feet,
link |
you just zone out.
link |
You kind of kind of go white, you know,
link |
you just hear white noise and go out.
link |
It's tough, but you got it.
link |
You need a little delusion to be a comedian.
link |
To get into it, it takes a little bit of delusion.
link |
Like you think you can do this, you know,
link |
you got 10 years ahead of you of hell
link |
and you're up for this.
link |
And you know, most comics, we see a horrible crowd
link |
and we see our friend bomb and we go,
link |
yeah, he's bombing, but I'll get him.
link |
And then you don't get him, but that's human nature too.
link |
It's like, they don't like him, but they'll like me.
link |
And you need a little of that to keep going as a comedian.
link |
But you don't want too much delusion
link |
because then you're a psycho, but you need a little.
link |
Well, the psycho could be good for a comedy.
link |
That's true too, love psychos.
link |
I mentioned to you offline that I talked to Elon
link |
and we talked about doing standup,
link |
but he's thinking maybe do a few minutes of standup.
link |
I was gonna say, if you need a coach, Elon, I gotcha.
link |
Well, maybe you should move to Austin
link |
to coach him full time.
link |
Ah, hopefully he can fly me in.
link |
So what advice would you give to somebody
link |
who wants to try to do five minutes,
link |
like the early steps of trying to go to an open mic
link |
and say something funny?
link |
Well, that's the irony of comedy is,
link |
I don't know if it's irony,
link |
but it's like the beginning is the hardest part.
link |
Usually the beginning is easy part.
link |
Hey, I'm playing this level of Mario.
link |
I start, I jump over one Koopa Troopa, whatever.
link |
And then the end is like, Jesus Christ,
link |
I got 30 guys coming at me.
link |
Comedy is the opposite.
link |
The beginning is like, it's a gauntlet.
link |
It's just obstacles.
link |
And it's like you said, open mics.
link |
I watched these famous comedians on Netflix and you go,
link |
this would all bomb at an open mic.
link |
They're killing in Radio City.
link |
This would bomb at an open mic.
link |
That's the weird part.
link |
So it's almost like you have to go through hell
link |
just to get to the promised land.
link |
And I would say, rehearse the shit out of it
link |
because you're gonna get frazzled up there.
link |
Everybody thinks, oh, this is good material.
link |
But you also forget about the other part of delivering it,
link |
having confidence, being likable,
link |
having timing, having a cadence,
link |
figuring out who you are,
link |
figuring out what the audience thinks you are
link |
or how they perceive you.
link |
Cause you can go up there and say all this,
link |
but they go, why is the guy, he's clearly gay.
link |
Why is he acting like he's not gay?
link |
That's all, now they're not listening to the joke.
link |
So like, you gotta know how you look.
link |
And it's just repetition, repetition.
link |
And bombing is not failure.
link |
That's what you gotta remember.
link |
I mean, look, if you do a killer hour
link |
and then you take it to Netflix and bomb, you fucked up.
link |
But bombing is not failure.
link |
It's going, oh, okay, I gotta retool that.
link |
Something's wrong there.
link |
I missed a word there.
link |
So you gotta treat the act
link |
almost like ingredients in a cooking, in a dish.
link |
You know, like, oh, I put too many eggs in.
link |
You gotta treat it like that.
link |
And look, when you pull a bad cake out of an oven,
link |
you go, I fucked up.
link |
But it doesn't hurt your feelings.
link |
But when you bomb and fuck up, it hurts your feelings.
link |
So you gotta factor that in too.
link |
Your feelings gonna be hurt
link |
and just almost be a robot
link |
and just keep going towards that open mic.
link |
You know how scary an open mic is?
link |
Bombing sucks, but bombing in front of other comedians
link |
Cause they know what just happened
link |
and they could have saved you and they didn't.
link |
So it's way worse.
link |
And they're gonna be your quote unquote friends
link |
Yeah, no, these are evil people.
link |
Twisted, fucked up, hurt people.
link |
Can you tell, like in those early days,
link |
let's just talk about that,
link |
like at the open mic level
link |
that a joke is gonna be good on paper.
link |
Like I'll give you my experience
link |
cause maybe you could be my coach
link |
in this particular moment.
link |
Like Larry Nassar.
link |
Joking, everybody.
link |
I hope nobody takes it seriously.
link |
I now have an amazing team of folks
link |
who help me with editing
link |
and they're now currently sweating.
link |
We gotta leave that one in.
link |
Yeah, that was pretty good.
link |
I'll leave that one.
link |
So going in front of an audience,
link |
just even to give a lecture terrifies me,
link |
But open mic, I mean, that to me,
link |
perhaps that's why I like going to open mics and listening
link |
is cause I just, it terrifies me so much,
link |
that idea of going up there and bombing.
link |
I mean, it's scary.
link |
And to do even like one minute, to be honest, is scary.
link |
And five minutes, I'm also watched enough open mics
link |
to realize that five minutes is a long time.
link |
I mean, it depends on your comedy,
link |
but if you're doing fast stuff,
link |
five minutes is a really long time.
link |
Oh, it's eternity.
link |
I guess with a long story, too, is a long time
link |
because if the story's not working,
link |
you're building up to something.
link |
If the story's gonna fail,
link |
you just spent all that time telling the story
link |
that completely went flat.
link |
Completely. Got nothing.
link |
I guess if you have a series of jokes,
link |
you can at least try to recover
link |
and like do the Mitch Hedberg thing
link |
where like, all right, I'll cross that off.
link |
Well, I'm able to, like I've tried to write a few things
link |
and I'm able to tell that it's really bad.
link |
Ah, ha, ha, ha, ha, well, that's better than most.
link |
Most people's egos kick in, they go, no, this is good.
link |
No, see, I'm able to introspect that.
link |
Like it seems funny.
link |
I mean, I guess the thing I'm looking for is original.
link |
Like there's easy stuff that you think is funny,
link |
but to me, originality is the thing
link |
you should be looking for because then,
link |
because then that's what's actually becomes funny.
link |
Like, or rather, if it's original,
link |
even if it bombs, that feels like more
link |
a beautiful art creation that you did.
link |
Like at least you swung for it.
link |
Like you did something unique.
link |
Cause like even with open mic, your first five minutes,
link |
there's so many, just go to enough open mics,
link |
you'll hear like all the, there's like a list of jokes
link |
that you can just go to.
link |
First of all, you can make fun of the fact
link |
that you're at open mic, that you're like doing this
link |
for the first time and so on.
link |
You could do a lot of stuff where you make fun
link |
of your appearance in some way and so on.
link |
But like, yeah, you could do that.
link |
You know, that takes actually, that's way harder
link |
than people realize to do it in an original way.
link |
You have to present who you are as a person very quickly,
link |
enough to then put that person down
link |
in front of everybody else.
link |
So you have to reveal the.
link |
The audience is like that,
link |
cause they go, he knows what we're thinking.
link |
But do it again in an original way.
link |
And so like when I'm trying to write stuff,
link |
when I, not that I've tried long, it's like 30 minutes,
link |
but as enough to see like, oh shit,
link |
to write something original is really difficult.
link |
It is, but do you got a bit, anything?
link |
You didn't write any one line or anything?
link |
Well, just in general, ever in your life,
link |
ever written a joke?
link |
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
link |
No, but I don't have anything in my mind popped up.
link |
So the jokes that I've written have more,
link |
like for some reason my mind goes to like dark places.
link |
So, you know, like, and not actually dark
link |
in the Mark Norman dark, because you go really dark
link |
to where it's like almost absurd.
link |
My natural inclination is to go to like
link |
a dark historical like place, like Hitler and Stalin.
link |
And almost, so go to that place
link |
and then talk about something absurd there.
link |
So like, don't go like all the way, I don't know.
link |
I don't want to give examples because it'd be clipped,
link |
but the Mark Norman style, look it up.
link |
He has a special on his YouTube, that kind.
link |
I want to almost explore the dark aspects
link |
of human nature more kind of connected
link |
to actual historical figures.
link |
That's the inclination.
link |
Like, I don't know, Nature's Metal,
link |
the Instagram channel that explores
link |
like the darkness of nature, like something there.
link |
See, that's good that you already know
link |
that you've kind of gotten to the core
link |
of your comedy already.
link |
And that's interesting, that's a step ahead.
link |
Yeah, I can hear, with most things that I do in life,
link |
I can like hear the music from a distance,
link |
like in myself, like, okay, if you have anything,
link |
this is the direction it'll be
link |
without actually knowing exactly all the steps.
link |
And that's a nice motivation to be like, all right,
link |
well, if you do this for a long time,
link |
maybe you'll have a chance to get there.
link |
But you have to, that's where it's a feature
link |
to be super self critical, I think.
link |
But then that's why it's fucking terrifying
link |
to walk up to a stage, stand there,
link |
and probably forget everything.
link |
Yeah, that's the other part nobody thinks about.
link |
Just goes right out of your head.
link |
You go fight or flight, it's ugly.
link |
My first years were horrific bombing, horrific stammering,
link |
horrific not remembering the punchline.
link |
Like, you got to, maybe you got a set up going
link |
and they're kind of on board and you're like,
link |
ah, how's that, ah, camera, camera out it goes.
link |
And you just hate yourself, it's a nightmare.
link |
But you've already kind of,
link |
maybe if you haven't done standup or whatever,
link |
but you kind of know your voice and that's pretty advanced.
link |
So you're not trying to be somebody else, I guess.
link |
Yeah, just for having done like podcasts
link |
and lecture and so on.
link |
I've embarrassed, I've already done some of the work
link |
of the standups do, which is embarrass yourself
link |
in front of others for prolonged periods of time.
link |
Yeah, so I've done that without actually developing
link |
Right, right, right.
link |
But maybe the funny just is not that difficult to develop.
link |
No, it's super difficult, of course,
link |
but I mean, maybe the essential work
link |
of a standup comedian is just the embarrassment
link |
of like finding who you are.
link |
Yeah, that's a part of it for sure.
link |
You know, in the beginning you're like,
link |
water bottle, what's funny about water bottle?
link |
Hmm, I'm a funny guy, I can make this funny,
link |
but that ain't, that's not it, you know?
link |
It's your shit, your shit, like your dark stuff.
link |
For me, I tend to gravitate towards dark,
link |
but in a weird way where, you know,
link |
people will say like, hey, don't objectify women.
link |
But then they go, Caitlyn Jenner's beautiful.
link |
And you're like, well, wait, I know something's off here.
link |
Why can you objectify her, but not the supermodel?
link |
So what's going on there?
link |
And I like to play with that.
link |
So I have this joke where I say, Caitlyn Jenner,
link |
oh, women go, Caitlyn Jenner's beautiful, beautiful woman.
link |
I go, well, you look like her, and they go, fuck you.
link |
And you're like, there's a lot of truth there.
link |
But I like exploring that kind of,
link |
oh, you're trying to get one over on me,
link |
or you're lying to yourself, or what are we doing here?
link |
And I like that kind of comedy.
link |
I don't see color, well, I'm black.
link |
Ah, you know, that's fun, because you're lying.
link |
Yeah, okay, so like big time comedians such as yourself
link |
don't like to think of yourself in this way, but.
link |
Yeah, this is like where you over philosophize comedy, but.
link |
It seems like comedians.
link |
Don't say important.
link |
Nothing worse than a comedian who thinks they're important.
link |
Yeah, so I was going, I was trying to find,
link |
as I was trying to say these words,
link |
I realized how cliche it is and how uninteresting it is.
link |
So I'm going to just, but there is something.
link |
I'm worried this whole thing is uninteresting.
link |
I'm like, who cares about comedy?
link |
There's like six comics on the planet.
link |
That nobody cares.
link |
Okay, I trust you in the pilot seat.
link |
You know what you're doing.
link |
You got listeners.
link |
They've tuned out long ago.
link |
Oh, you got Dan Carlin on here, huh?
link |
Yeah, we're just going back and forth on Twitter just now.
link |
He was on here before.
link |
I've been actually really trying to volunteer myself
link |
aggressively with Dan Carlin for like a Russian episode
link |
where I can speak Russian.
link |
There's certain documents.
link |
I talked with Jaco about this too.
link |
Certain things, I mean, I just love the challenge
link |
of bringing Russian documents that I can read in Russian
link |
and then can translate and can try to capture
link |
the depth of the writing in the Russian language
link |
and communicate to the American audience.
link |
So much is lost in translation.
link |
Like there's so much pain and poetry in the Russian language.
link |
It's just connected to the culture.
link |
Every language, not every language,
link |
but many languages are uniquely able to capture
link |
the culture of the people.
link |
I mean, in some way they're the representation
link |
of the culture of the people.
link |
And so Russian is definitely that,
link |
like represents the full history and culture
link |
of the 20th century with all the atrocities,
link |
all the broken promises, all those kinds of things.
link |
Norm says Russian literature is,
link |
it's the most tapped into human existence than anything else.
link |
The Russian literature guy.
link |
Dostoevsky, all that shit.
link |
It's funny that there is a gap with comedians too.
link |
There's a culture of Russian comedy,
link |
like standup comedians that are totally.
link |
I don't know these Russians.
link |
I mean, I don't know today.
link |
I mean, more from the 80s and 90s and there's a.
link |
That's all I know.
link |
That's not, so there's like a force, that's.
link |
I've never seen you that offended.
link |
No, no, no, it's not offended.
link |
There's a different, there's like the kinesins
link |
and there's the edgy.
link |
Wait, I thought you said there was Russian comics.
link |
Yeah, Russian, I mean, I'm comparing them.
link |
I'm giving you like a style of darkness,
link |
like that's the kind of people that kind of challenge.
link |
They give, again, this is to how important comedians are,
link |
is they give a voice to people where in the Soviet Union,
link |
you really can't like express your opposition
link |
to the government.
link |
And so comedians are exceptionally important there
link |
for just, I don't know, channeling the anger,
link |
even when sometimes it's not the actual opposition
link |
to the government, they're just channeling the anger,
link |
the frustration with the absurdity of life.
link |
Like, you know, when there's a shortage of food,
link |
shortage of jobs, the absurdity of the bureaucracy,
link |
like the top heavy government,
link |
just all of that can only sometimes be expressed
link |
with like dark, absurd humor.
link |
And that actually, why there's a culture
link |
of that kind of humor, you know,
link |
you gather around the table with vodka
link |
and all you can do is just talk shit and just.
link |
Be offensive, say horrible shit, ball bust.
link |
I mean, I make school shooting jokes
link |
and people go, how do you do that?
link |
I'm like, well, maybe that's how I deal with it.
link |
You know, like how come I gotta empathize the way you do?
link |
Maybe we're different.
link |
All right, so now let's skip the whole open mic thing
link |
and crafting jokes.
link |
Oh yeah, that's tough.
link |
Kerouac said, one day I will find the right words
link |
and they will be simple.
link |
When do you know the joke is done, it's perfect.
link |
You're somebody that does like really sharp,
link |
So like there's somebody, I don't know,
link |
I don't know who you see yourself in the same school as,
link |
like you're darker and faster than Hedberg, I think,
link |
in terms of like, just, I don't know,
link |
the turns you take are very fast.
link |
Thanks, I appreciate it.
link |
I think I got some Norm Macdonald and maybe.
link |
Oh, Norm, that's right.
link |
You know, obviously Norm,
link |
but Chris Rock was huge for me.
link |
Chris Rock, old like 90s Chris Rock was like,
link |
I didn't know you could do jokes like that.
link |
I always loved George Carlin and Groucho Marx
link |
and Bill Murray, there's so many different types of comedy.
link |
But when I saw the bigger and blacker bring the pain,
link |
I was like, oh my God, this is like, it hit me.
link |
And then Norm's just like the funniest guy on the planet.
link |
So him being the smartest guy in the room,
link |
but acting dumb was great.
link |
So yeah, Chris Rock has that way of cutting to the bullshit,
link |
which I mentioned earlier.
link |
I liked that cutting through the bullshit
link |
kind of style of comedy, because you kind of go,
link |
oh, I'm not crazy.
link |
That's what I thought too.
link |
I was too scared to say it, but I thought that.
link |
And he's saying it in a room of people are laughing.
link |
Maybe I'm not an idiot.
link |
So that helped me.
link |
So it's observational, but not Jerry Seinfeld
link |
observational, it's like going to the darker thing.
link |
To like within society.
link |
But I like him too, but seeing it,
link |
doing it about stuff like in your life, society.
link |
Yeah, race, gender, government, politics,
link |
all that kind of stuff.
link |
Exactly, exactly, sex, human emotions,
link |
jealousy, whatever it is, that's the good stuff.
link |
How'd you feel when Norm passed away?
link |
Ah, that was a bummer because he was, you know what, 61.
link |
And I just didn't see it coming.
link |
And I just, I've watched so many hours of his stuff
link |
and I've met him and he's like,
link |
he was like this comedic bar, like, hey, we got Norm.
link |
You know, there's so much shit comedy.
link |
Then you see Norm and you're like, this is next level.
link |
This is savant type shit.
link |
And then to lose him is like, ah, Norm had 20 more years
link |
at least of just content and content and thoughts
link |
and his point of view.
link |
And that's, we'll never get that and that sucks.
link |
Yeah, there is something about artists
link |
like Jimi Hendrix dying too early.
link |
It's like, you wonder.
link |
Yeah, what was next?
link |
But then part of it is like, you know,
link |
it all ends for all of us and it's like walking away early
link |
is kind of admirable.
link |
It's almost like I did a pretty good job.
link |
I'm good with that.
link |
And especially the way he did, which is not telling anybody.
link |
I know, nine years, his best friends didn't even know.
link |
And in this world of like victimhood
link |
and I need clicks and I need people to love me,
link |
he could have, he got, you know, canceled
link |
and yelled at and in trouble
link |
and he could have pulled that cancer card and he never did.
link |
I mean, the integrity on this motherfucker.
link |
Did you get a chance to interact with him?
link |
Like what, how often did you meet him?
link |
I met him once at the Comedy Cellar
link |
and we chatted for five minutes
link |
and then he went on and did the Letterman set that he did.
link |
He was running the Letterman set.
link |
And sweet guy, nice guy, didn't know him that well,
link |
but I mean, he's just brilliant.
link |
And I also love a brilliant guy who does stupid stuff.
link |
That's a fun, fun little combo there.
link |
Like silly guys who are actually brilliant also.
link |
You know, like Louis CK is a brilliant comic
link |
and he'll do a joke about farting on a kid.
link |
And you're like, that's great
link |
that he still finds farts funny
link |
and he's also this comedic genius guy.
link |
And doesn't really acknowledge the genius.
link |
Yeah, I like smart people, they're silly.
link |
Yes, that's a good combo.
link |
Like you said, Elon is silly.
link |
Yeah, yeah, super silly. Yeah, that's great.
link |
Cause we taught, we teach kids like,
link |
hey, put that down, stop that,
link |
quit cutting up, quit horsing around.
link |
But maybe that's some kind of sign of brilliance there.
link |
Yeah, being like childlike and silly is a kind of wisdom.
link |
I feel like those people are way wiser
link |
than the people that, no offense to me,
link |
wear a suit and take themselves way too seriously.
link |
No, but you got a spark in you.
link |
You got a little, what's the word?
link |
Little imp in you.
link |
You know what imp?
link |
Little mischievous, it's like a little.
link |
Is that a Tolkien character, imp?
link |
An imp is a European mythological being
link |
similar to a fairy or a demon.
link |
Are you calling me a fairy?
link |
Frequently, no, okay.
link |
Similar to a fairy or a demon.
link |
I feel like that's a big leap.
link |
Big leap, yeah, that's not a great info bio there.
link |
Frequently described in folklore and superstition,
link |
the word may perhaps derive from the term imps,
link |
but with a Y, used to denote a young grafted tree.
link |
It's a little mischievous.
link |
You got a twinkle.
link |
You're the serious buttoned up guy,
link |
but there's a twinkle.
link |
There's a twinkle.
link |
And the audience can see the twinkle,
link |
and that's why you resonate, I think.
link |
Deep Analysis by Mark Norman, Psychological Analysis.
link |
Okay, but then back to the crafting of the joke.
link |
You said Chris Rock and Norm Macdonald.
link |
What for you, how do you know when the joke is done?
link |
Are there some jokes that you're proud of?
link |
Wow, that's well done.
link |
Yeah, the joke is done.
link |
It's a tough question
link |
because there's so many different kinds of jokes.
link |
There's what we call a chunk, which is a big idea
link |
with a bunch of jokes in the middle of it,
link |
and then a big crescendo at the end.
link |
Or there's a one liner,
link |
or there's a tag of a joke that's also a joke.
link |
So the jokes come in different,
link |
like I have a joke where I say,
link |
I met my girl in that Jewish app.
link |
What's that Jewish app called?
link |
That's the hell, that's what they're asking you
link |
to want from the crowd, but it's a fun turn
link |
because you say your thing
link |
and then I hit you with a misdirect
link |
and that's what a joke is.
link |
A joke is basically me saying something that makes sense,
link |
but you didn't see it coming.
link |
And that's a perfect example of that.
link |
So that joke took forever to figure out, by the way.
link |
You have to go to different services like PayPal.
link |
Exactly, and I figured PayPal is funny
link |
because it has the word pay in it.
link |
Venmo, it's also not really a good word, Venmo, PayPal.
link |
It just hits better.
link |
Yeah, PayPal is funnier somehow.
link |
It's funnier somehow,
link |
and that's the beauty of comedy.
link |
There's a weird little magic into it.
link |
You can get technical all day and formulaic,
link |
but there's still that little bit of fairy dust
link |
that you don't know why this is funnier.
link |
So you know what joke is done when it kills,
link |
and this is a roundness to a joke
link |
when you feel like this is buttoned up.
link |
This is done here.
link |
Is simplicity the right word there?
link |
Is it like you're chopping stuff away
link |
or are you adding stuff?
link |
Like what does it feel like?
link |
Simplicity is always the best angle.
link |
I mean, you can get real high concept with a joke
link |
and still make it work, but the simpler the better.
link |
I saw Dave Chappelle on stage once,
link |
and Chris Rock and Demetri Martin were in the back
link |
watching in awe, and Dave Chappelle,
link |
I can't remember the joke,
link |
but he said something about sex or women,
link |
and Demetri Martin goes, eh, it's a little easy.
link |
And Chris Rock goes, that's why it's good.
link |
And I remember hearing that as some young comic,
link |
like ah, I'm getting this comedy lesson right here
link |
for these two titans.
link |
And so that was fun.
link |
So the easy is okay.
link |
That's such a weird, I think I remember reading
link |
or hearing Eminem say something about
link |
maybe the song Slim Shade.
link |
One of the songs, he's like, I knew it was gonna be good
link |
because it got really repetitive
link |
and annoying very quickly or something like that.
link |
I mean, that's the sort of the music equivalent
link |
Like if it's like super catchy, as a musician,
link |
you might get very quickly bored of it.
link |
Or like as you're creating it, no, it's too easy.
link |
It's like there needs to be some more complexity to it.
link |
I like complexity, but the best guys
link |
who are the ones who make complex shit look simple.
link |
Like you ever heard that Ben Franklin story
link |
where he's talking to his friend,
link |
his friend's like, I'm gonna start a hat store.
link |
So he puts a sign out, says, hats for sale, $12.
link |
And Ben Franklin looks at it, he goes,
link |
well, you don't need the $12
link |
because all they need to know is that you got hats for sale.
link |
He's like, all right.
link |
So he loses the $12, makes a new sign, hats for sale.
link |
And he goes, you don't really need for sale
link |
because it's a business.
link |
People can put that together.
link |
So he just goes, all right.
link |
He makes a new sign, it says hats.
link |
And then Ben Franklin's like, you know,
link |
you don't really need the word hat.
link |
You can just put a picture of a hat.
link |
And he made a new sign, which is a picture of a hat
link |
and it like helped the business or something.
link |
That's like some old wives tale or whatever.
link |
But I think about that all the time when I'm writing.
link |
I thought this was going to like, there was no sign.
link |
It went like super like nihilistic.
link |
Oh, maybe, maybe, that could work too.
link |
What, like as a comedian, so I'm a fan of yours.
link |
I enjoy, I really enjoy you in conversations.
link |
Now I'm getting nothing out of it.
link |
This is like emotion.
link |
You're tough not to read.
link |
I mean, just the quickness you have,
link |
obviously you're also a great stand up comedian.
link |
What's your favorite medium to shine in?
link |
So you have a podcast yourself, an excellent podcast.
link |
You're often a podcast guest.
link |
Which is always fun to listen to,
link |
how you're going to deal with the different people.
link |
You're great on Rogan.
link |
What do you enjoy most?
link |
Podcasts are great because you can stretch out a little more.
link |
You can breathe a little.
link |
You know, with a stand up set,
link |
I like to be like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
link |
But podcasts are great because it's conversational.
link |
So you can be, it's almost like you're being funny
link |
with your friends.
link |
Whereas a stage is like a, this is a piece.
link |
This is a presentation.
link |
But I think the podcast is great,
link |
but you don't get the reaction.
link |
Unless the host is laughing, you can't hear the guy
link |
in his car in New Jersey driving to work going, ah!
link |
Every now and then I'll read a comment like,
link |
I spit out my coffee when you said this.
link |
And I'm like, but it's not immediate.
link |
You want the immediate.
link |
So stand up will always be number one,
link |
but there's no better feeling than killing in a room
link |
of people who don't know who you are.
link |
Strangers, you're in the middle of nowhere.
link |
You left your wife at home.
link |
You left your kids.
link |
You left your house.
link |
You're in the middle of bumfucked Dickville
link |
and murdering for these hillbilly nobody, whatever it is.
link |
And they're slinging their beers and cheering you on.
link |
And they carry out and you fuck some fat lady
link |
and you leave and you get back to your hotel
link |
and you go, holy shit, what was that?
link |
No one will ever know about it.
link |
Just lost in the ether.
link |
That's the best feeling.
link |
Killing an obscurity as Bill Burr would say.
link |
Yeah, this is one of the things that sucks
link |
about giving lectures.
link |
Like at universities or giving lectures in general
link |
is when you look at the audience, you know,
link |
several hundred students,
link |
they all have a bored look on their face.
link |
Like my face now probably looks bored,
link |
but I'm actually excited to be talking to you.
link |
But there's something about just,
link |
there's something about a comedy called,
link |
maybe this is the contingent of laughter,
link |
but like it gives people the freedom to just laugh,
link |
to like, to remove that facade of like,
link |
you don't have to pretend like you don't care.
link |
Like if you care, you can show it
link |
and you can have fun with it a lot.
link |
Probably liquor helps out too.
link |
Yeah, it helps for sure.
link |
But there is a, especially,
link |
and that's why comedy I think is so popular right now
link |
because HR is up our ass.
link |
We're scared of old tweets that might come back to haunt us.
link |
What did I say on that interview?
link |
Even people at offices are like,
link |
I put something on Facebook in 1999
link |
that was about fat tits that I liked.
link |
Should I get rid of that?
link |
Even people say like, there's no cancel, whatever.
link |
There is something in the air right now
link |
that wasn't there before.
link |
It's the video, I'm a Karen,
link |
I got caught at Trader Joe, whatever it is.
link |
People rat on each other now,
link |
everybody's tattletaling because they want the clicks.
link |
It's a horrible society we've crafted.
link |
But standup comedy gets you to come out,
link |
and now people do it at standup shows too.
link |
Sadly, but it gets you to come out
link |
and let that inhibition down.
link |
Because we're all human,
link |
we've all had the fucked up thoughts like,
link |
man, that guy's fat as shit.
link |
It doesn't mean you hate the guy,
link |
it doesn't mean you hate fat people,
link |
it doesn't mean you're fat shaming.
link |
But you can't say that at the office.
link |
You can't go, Bob, you're fat as shit.
link |
You'll get fired for body shaming.
link |
But at the club, you go, that guy's fat as shit.
link |
The crowd goes, he is fat as shit.
link |
And it's this weird cathartic thing
link |
because all we do is tamp shit down.
link |
It's kind of like you ever meet a girl
link |
who's like all prim and proper in the bedroom.
link |
She's like, put a lamp up my ass.
link |
Ah, you know, whatever it is.
link |
It's because we gotta get it out.
link |
We're all repressed in some way.
link |
So I guess what you're saying is comedy's important.
link |
What do you think about Austin?
link |
What do you think about the comedy scene in Austin?
link |
We talk about LA and New York.
link |
What do you think about what Joe's trying to create there?
link |
So I should say that the reason I moved to Austin,
link |
I have this dream of, it wouldn't be funny
link |
if I said this dream of becoming a comedian.
link |
It's an audience, at least.
link |
Yeah, that's true.
link |
You know, I always said you can hear
link |
the music in the distance.
link |
I have this dream around robotics
link |
and artificial intelligence, whether it's a company,
link |
whether it's something else that I was just pulling me to.
link |
I actually wanted to move to San Francisco,
link |
and then all my friends in San Francisco said,
link |
no, it's the wrong place.
link |
At this time, the cynicism there
link |
is just not conducive to taking big leaps
link |
into the unknown, excited about the future kind of thing.
link |
And Austin was that, for me in particular with Elon Musk,
link |
but also just the energy that everybody had,
link |
including Joe, the excitement about the future.
link |
I don't care if Austin burns to the ground
link |
and it actually is a complete failure.
link |
Being excited about the future seems to be,
link |
like optimism about the future,
link |
seems to be the thing that actually
link |
makes that future happen, makes a great future happen.
link |
So it's always cool for me to see Joe
link |
super excited about creating a culture in Austin,
link |
like making it a comedy hub.
link |
I don't want to overstate it,
link |
but I think he really believes it'll be
link |
a very big place for comedy in the United States
link |
and generally in the world.
link |
And so just even believing that, that's powerful.
link |
You start to make it happen, that energy is there.
link |
Anyway, so, but that's for me from just an outsider
link |
watching the fun of it.
link |
I should also mention for less of an outsider,
link |
more insider in the martial arts world,
link |
partially probably because of Joe, I'm not sure,
link |
like John Donahar, Gordon Ryan, the B Team,
link |
all of those folks, those are, that might be gibberish
link |
to you, but those are like some of the greatest grapplers
link |
in martial artists of all time.
link |
So it's also becoming this hub of martial arts.
link |
So the whole thing is just beautiful.
link |
Anyway, what are your thoughts about that scene?
link |
Well, there's a lot here, a lot of things to mention.
link |
One, I think Joe did do that to a degree,
link |
like all these people, Segura lives there now,
link |
a lot of comics live there.
link |
He's opening clubs, other clubs are opening.
link |
I think it's happening.
link |
That's the other thing is people go,
link |
everybody's moving to Austin, Austin's the new hub.
link |
And then they look at their watch and they go,
link |
five minutes went by, nothing changed.
link |
It's gonna take years, but everybody wants it now, now, now.
link |
What, Austin, there's no industry there.
link |
There's no Netflix, whatever.
link |
And you're like, yeah, I know, but it needs a minute.
link |
You can't just do this overnight.
link |
So people forget that.
link |
So it could happen huge, just give it some time.
link |
I mean, he's opening a club, I went and saw it.
link |
It's incredible, like it's so perfect for comedy.
link |
It's every detail, it's incredible.
link |
But so it could happen still.
link |
I do think there's a little biting off more
link |
than they can chew with Austin because it's not that big.
link |
And it's spread out.
link |
I mean, yeah, it's not big.
link |
And the infrastructure is not quite there to support it.
link |
But it has a lot of, comparing from the tech side,
link |
it has a lot of land to expand into.
link |
So it might become this. That helps.
link |
Like you're basically establishing,
link |
it's kind of like when you're in New York,
link |
you're establishing these whole neighborhoods.
link |
And you have the freedom to do that
link |
because there's a lot of space on all sides.
link |
Yes, okay, so that helps.
link |
So again, maybe some time.
link |
I do agree with that new hope
link |
that's kind of built into human beings of like,
link |
let's go to America, let's go to the utopia.
link |
We even have it with space.
link |
We gotta see what's over there.
link |
And it's just red, dusty bullshit, but you still gotta go.
link |
So I'm with you on that about this new hope, this new land.
link |
And I think that is beautiful.
link |
And I think there's a lot of haters.
link |
I think there's a lot of naysayers who hate change,
link |
who hate anything new.
link |
And then I think you gotta go, hey, that hurts, that sucks,
link |
but blow me dickless.
link |
I'm trying something.
link |
Stop hating on me.
link |
I mean, how many people hate Elon Musk?
link |
Yeah, it's hilarious.
link |
I mean, there's some of the criticism on Austin.
link |
Like a lot of people are really, people are excited
link |
about Austin and somehow that's like,
link |
it's like when Green Day became famous,
link |
you no longer want to be a fan of Green Day.
link |
But to me, like that's...
link |
Well, Austin was already a cool town.
link |
Like every comic five years ago, it's like,
link |
oh, I got Austin this weekend, I can't wait.
link |
So it already had a buzz,
link |
but some people think maybe the buzz was the cool part.
link |
The fact that it was like this off the beaten path city
link |
and now I get to visit it and then leave.
link |
But I think it could still be
link |
this comedy tech booming place.
link |
It just will take some time and people want it right now.
link |
Well, on the tech side, it's...
link |
It's already there?
link |
It's getting there very fast.
link |
So, I mean, Elon's really pushing that with the factory.
link |
It's just a huge number of people are moving there with jobs.
link |
Like you're already starting.
link |
And then the opportunities to launch new companies
link |
is just incredible.
link |
I guess it's not right now.
link |
It's like within months, within a year, that kind of thing.
link |
But like, it's an opportunity to just
link |
start to build shit in a new place.
link |
It's kind of like going to Mars.
link |
It's like you get to start over.
link |
Yeah, and I like the hope aspect.
link |
I think that's huge for people.
link |
And I'm all for it.
link |
I hope it works out.
link |
I don't know if it will,
link |
but I don't know anything about economies
link |
and city planning and all that shit.
link |
So it might be too early to say, but I hope it works.
link |
Are you still talking about Austin or Mars?
link |
Mars is, eh, there's nothing there.
link |
There's no vagina there.
link |
There's no food there.
link |
There's no water there.
link |
It seems, I get space travel.
link |
I think it's important.
link |
But I don't know Mars is really gonna move the needle.
link |
So what are your thoughts about Elon Musk and SpaceX
link |
and launching rockets into space?
link |
I think it's all good because you could say,
link |
hey, we could just feed everybody.
link |
And I was like, yeah, that's true.
link |
By the way, these guys give a ton of money
link |
to philanthropy shit that nobody cares about.
link |
By the way, it's weird.
link |
He could feed Nigeria with pocket change of his.
link |
And you're like, well, maybe he has.
link |
I heard Bill Gates gave back so much money
link |
he saved 6 million lives.
link |
But that's a reverse Holocaust, by the way.
link |
That's pretty good.
link |
What have you done?
link |
So I just think space travel is good
link |
because you learn about the place you're living in
link |
from going to space.
link |
It kind of helps you learn about this more.
link |
You could say, what's the point of going to this other there?
link |
But it does help, I think.
link |
Yeah, doing difficult things in the engineering space
link |
seems to be a way to develop as almost like an accident,
link |
as a side effect of doing a really difficult thing
link |
in a team of brilliant people.
link |
You develop things like the internet.
link |
And you could argue that the internet
link |
maybe is not so good for society.
link |
No, I'm just kidding.
link |
It's good and bad.
link |
But it's like a pull up.
link |
You're trying to get your bicep going,
link |
but hey, before you know it, you got decent forearms.
link |
But you weren't working on the forearms,
link |
you wanted to buy, but you got the fore.
link |
And I think that's kind of what space travel is.
link |
I like how this pivoted into a workout routine advice.
link |
I'm trying to get an analogy going here.
link |
All right, they work pretty well.
link |
What are your thoughts about, since I'm a robotics person,
link |
I'd be curious to see, do you think about the space at all?
link |
About, first of all, autonomous vehicles
link |
with Tesla Autopilot and Waymo self driving car.
link |
I'm not sure if you're familiar
link |
with all the autonomous vehicles and so on.
link |
So those are robots on wheels.
link |
And then there's also legged robots.
link |
So next time you're in Austin,
link |
you get to meet some of the legged robots.
link |
That's what I've been working on.
link |
And I find those kind of a fascinating way
link |
to explore the nature of intelligence in our computers,
link |
but also explore our own intelligence
link |
and also explore our own,
link |
like what makes us connect to other living beings,
link |
whether it's dogs, cats, or other humans.
link |
Like there's some magic there
link |
that's beyond just intelligence.
link |
And I, like when I have the robot dog,
link |
there's some aspect to it that, I don't know,
link |
brings me joy in a way that a dog does,
link |
in a way that a good friend does.
link |
Yeah, that's interesting.
link |
And I'm not sure if that's some kind of anthropomorphism,
link |
like where I'm projecting my hopes for this,
link |
what this thing is, but it's kind of built in.
link |
I mean, it's just a source of joy.
link |
Maybe it's connected to the fact
link |
that there's just like a loneliness
link |
within all of us, within me.
link |
And it's just nice to have other things in your life
link |
that move, that recognize you, that kind of thing.
link |
I mean, I suppose it's nice to even just have a plant.
link |
Plant goes a long way.
link |
You see a guy with plants in his apartment,
link |
it changes the apartment because they're alive.
link |
You gotta water them.
link |
You gotta put sun on them.
link |
So yeah, I think there's something there.
link |
And I think you can see people's reactions
link |
when you show them advanced technology,
link |
like these dog robots or these robots that dance and shit.
link |
People are like, what the fuck?
link |
Like it hits home in some way, whether it's fear
link |
or you wanna fuck them clearly, whatever it is,
link |
but it does connect with you in some way.
link |
And I think this is why I don't think robots will take over.
link |
You always hear that robot, they're making them too advanced.
link |
They're gonna wipe us out, blah, blah, blah.
link |
If robots get at human emotions, that is scary
link |
because they could get mad at us and kill us
link |
and they're stronger and they don't need sleep.
link |
They don't need food.
link |
They don't need water.
link |
They don't get jealous.
link |
But if they have emotions,
link |
then I think we can dominate them
link |
because who knows emotions better than us?
link |
We've got thousands of years
link |
of evolutionary emotional bullshit.
link |
We can go, hey robot, I heard your wife
link |
fucked that black and Decker, huh?
link |
They're gonna crumble.
link |
We can bully them.
link |
Emotionally manipulate robots.
link |
Yes, that's when we'll win.
link |
Right now, they could kill us.
link |
They could just, we'd all die.
link |
Then we shoot them back, bing, bing, bing, bing.
link |
But if they do get emotions, then we can go,
link |
hey, you look like hell.
link |
What is that, a rusty bolt?
link |
Hey, you're dropping some oil there, you loser.
link |
I think we can win if they do get emotions.
link |
This goes back to your father being able
link |
to undercut you with a single word.
link |
Yeah, so we're the creators of the robots
link |
and then the robots will just,
link |
you would say the exact thing
link |
where the robot would be like, that son of a bitch.
link |
And then it goes back to his hole
link |
and just sits there miserable.
link |
Right, yeah, hardware looks more like software to me.
link |
You can't get it up, yada, yada, yada.
link |
But I'm not worried about robots
link |
and I think self, what do you think
link |
about the self driving cars?
link |
Is that just wiping out the horse and buggy?
link |
Isn't that just progression of technology?
link |
Yeah, so I don't know if you've driven in a Tesla,
link |
I have, I rode in the passenger, I just drive it.
link |
Yeah, there's several stages in that.
link |
I think it's the problem is way harder than people realize.
link |
And for quite a while,
link |
it'll just make driving more pleasant.
link |
It'll make it less stressful.
link |
It'll take over some of the boring bits for you
link |
and make it easier.
link |
Like there's something that happens actually
link |
when the car is driving for you in the following way.
link |
Like it's staying in the lane,
link |
it's keeping distance to the car in front of you.
link |
Maybe it's changing lanes.
link |
It allows you to relax a little bit.
link |
Like you become, you still have to be alert,
link |
but you become like a passenger
link |
and you get to like take in the world.
link |
I mean, somehow that's more relaxing
link |
without making you necessarily like bored more.
link |
It's energizing more.
link |
So I just think it makes the driving experience
link |
But when you actually fully automate cars,
link |
when you can just completely tune out
link |
and start reading a book or go to sleep,
link |
that might change society like in ways
link |
we don't even understand.
link |
Because you'll have, I mean the,
link |
it'll probably change the nature of roads
link |
because the cars, because now you can be super productive.
link |
And so no longer quite matters to you
link |
as much how long it takes to get from point A to point B
link |
because you're not wasting that time.
link |
You just continue working.
link |
It's like public transit that comes to you.
link |
And so there will be maybe less roads and bigger roads
link |
and it will just change the nature of how we get
link |
from point A to point B.
link |
I think you're right.
link |
But then couple that also with the fact
link |
that we seem to be more and more comfortable
link |
existing in the digital world.
link |
So like maybe we won't want to go outside more and more.
link |
We will just interact with each other virtually.
link |
And I don't mean Zoom meetings.
link |
I mean, just in other ways that's more fulfilling
link |
than a Zoom meeting, but then maybe not
link |
because like there's something deeply uncompelling
link |
about Zoom meetings.
link |
Like podcasts that are remote,
link |
unless they're super information dense,
link |
at least to me as a podcast fan, kind of suck.
link |
There's no connection.
link |
It goes back to the dog thing.
link |
With the Zoom, there's no connection.
link |
And we're not, you know, I don't understand why
link |
we're not even making eye contact.
link |
But it's something there.
link |
There's pheromones.
link |
And that's like out of our understanding probably.
link |
It's just some kind of weird biological,
link |
you know, you ever have Cheerios in a bowl?
link |
The Cheerios tend to, they tend to go together.
link |
You see a cluster of Cheerios.
link |
They're never really hanging out on the other side.
link |
And that's kind of how people are in real life.
link |
I wonder what the physics of that is.
link |
So they come together and they stick.
link |
There's so many with molecules.
link |
I don't know, I can't remember what it was,
link |
but it was fascinating.
link |
And I think that's how people are.
link |
And I think you try to write a TV show
link |
or craft a movie with your team, Zoom, nothing there.
link |
It's like phone sex versus penetration.
link |
One day you'll learn that.
link |
I know nothing of either of the,
link |
because I think there's a phone sex Netflix documentary
link |
that there's a show or something like that
link |
that is really popular that I want to go watch.
link |
So at least I can learn about that.
link |
I could send you some links.
link |
Oh, on the internet?
link |
But yeah, self driving car.
link |
I think it's just inevitable.
link |
It's coming and these truckers
link |
are going to have to figure something out.
link |
I mean, that's an under understood industry actually,
link |
because there's not,
link |
there's a lot of trucking jobs and people don't want to,
link |
well, people don't want to actually take them anymore
link |
because it's such a difficult job.
link |
or a lot of people believe it won't have
link |
as big of a negative impact as folks anticipate.
link |
There'll be other automation.
link |
I think they'll have a huge impact.
link |
I mean, you already see it in McDonald's.
link |
You go to the beep, beep, beep.
link |
Why do you want to get yelled at
link |
by the heavyset woman of color,
link |
you know, for making a bad order
link |
when you can just, you know, hit the screen?
link |
But those interactions I think are human.
link |
I mean, that's part of life.
link |
So it is scary taking away everything.
link |
How long till we're not fucking?
link |
That's coming too.
link |
Then there's going to have two types of people.
link |
Are you a fuck in real life?
link |
Are you a digital fuck person?
link |
Oh, I'm a digital.
link |
Oh, I like real fucking.
link |
Sorry, we can't date.
link |
Well, there's also the reproduction side of sex,
link |
which is like with genetic engineering,
link |
you'll be able to specify a little bit of details.
link |
I talked to Jamie Mertzel about that.
link |
Like where you can specify like,
link |
it'll start with like,
link |
I want my child not to have like a high likelihood
link |
of diabetes or something like that.
link |
And then you just get to specify like intelligence.
link |
You just get to specify those kinds of parameters
link |
until you're like basically trying to create a perfect human
link |
and you lose some of the magic of the flaws
link |
that make us who we are.
link |
And you know, I'm pretty sure in the full lineup of humans,
link |
like, so let me give you some information.
link |
Lay it off me, buddy.
link |
I'm sure you researched this thoroughly,
link |
but a male of the human species,
link |
the homo sapien produces 500 billion sperm cells
link |
So that's all, some more than others.
link |
That's all uniquely, genetically unique humans
link |
that you could produce.
link |
So even across those 500 billion, you can select.
link |
What do you mean, like abort some or?
link |
No, you can choose which of them you want.
link |
I mean, just imagine all the genetic possibilities
link |
that are there, like all of the possible,
link |
like you won the race.
link |
Yeah, this is the winner.
link |
Which one out of all the 500 billion?
link |
You have to imagine what the competition was.
link |
Oh, just tarts all day long.
link |
Well, so it's not actually the fastest sperm
link |
or like it's, I think a lot of it is timing and luck.
link |
That's what it seems like.
link |
There's actual papers on this
link |
and I've actually been reading them.
link |
So it's not just like the fastest sperm to the egg.
link |
There's a timing thing.
link |
So you were just lucky.
link |
So it's interesting to think about like,
link |
once you're able to specify some parameters
link |
of what your child is like,
link |
how that changes the nature of
link |
even just like the intimacy of two humans getting together
link |
and making, creating together a child.
link |
I mean, it changes it.
link |
It's almost like, I don't know,
link |
it becomes like a factory line of some kind.
link |
If you don't meet naturally.
link |
Yeah, if you don't meet naturally and then you don't
link |
and you get to optimize your child,
link |
then it's some like you have to consider
link |
utilitarian type of things,
link |
like what's good for society
link |
and it'll probably be regulation about what kind of children
link |
you can have or not.
link |
Like your child can not have an IQ below this
link |
or above this or something like that.
link |
Or your child can not.
link |
We already kind of do that with VIP clubs.
link |
Like, ah, you're kind of ugly
link |
or women go, hey, he's not tall enough.
link |
We kind of do it a little.
link |
Especially sexually.
link |
Can't get on the roller coaster
link |
if you're this short, whatever it is.
link |
You know, we do it in some capacity.
link |
But here, this would be like fully transparent
link |
and to a degree that it's hard to imagine.
link |
Like the way we currently do it,
link |
you can at least get around it.
link |
You can at least trick your way onto the roller coaster
link |
even if you're short.
link |
Or the fat guy can get rich so he can get laid.
link |
You know, there's other ways.
link |
At the risk of asking the totally wrong person
link |
this question, what advice would you give
link |
to young people today in high school and college
link |
about how to have a successful career
link |
or career they're proud of
link |
or maybe have a life that they're proud of?
link |
Well, first of all, you gotta be,
link |
you gotta want a life you're proud of.
link |
Not everybody has any integrity.
link |
A lot of people just want short money.
link |
I wanna feel good, look good right now.
link |
I wanna do Molly, boom, I'll feel good, you know?
link |
But you should space it out.
link |
You should, it's almost like saving money
link |
so you can use it later.
link |
Nobody wants to save money.
link |
What do they say, like 11% of America
link |
actually has money saved, $1,000 or some shit?
link |
Everybody wants it now, now, what do you call it?
link |
Immediate gratification.
link |
I think the key to happiness and satisfaction
link |
is working for something.
link |
Even if it's, it's like a baby.
link |
If you could have a baby in five minutes,
link |
if a woman, you got a, you jizzed in her
link |
and she had a baby, oop, five minutes, boom.
link |
I think you'd be more likely to throw it away
link |
if you could make it that quick.
link |
It's the fact that you spent nine months backbreaking
link |
the labor, the lactating, the ripped placenta
link |
and the hymen or whatever the fuck.
link |
That's what makes you love it.
link |
And I think it's the same with comedy
link |
or making money or whatever.
link |
Look at these kids who like child stars.
link |
They all become heroin addicts at like 22
link |
because they've just, their sensors are burned out.
link |
Their pleasure sensors.
link |
You didn't have to earn it.
link |
I think earning it is a big part of life
link |
and always try to do better, try to do more,
link |
try to learn new things.
link |
Play the piano then you chooch.
link |
But you won't do it because it takes effort
link |
and failure and all that.
link |
But that's the good part.
link |
And I know it's hard to see.
link |
So I think that's a good key to life
link |
is work hard at something you care about
link |
and then love the result.
link |
The hard work, the journey is actually way more important
link |
than just getting something.
link |
Everybody wants to go on Amazon.
link |
Then you feel good for 10 seconds
link |
and all right, let's go on Amazon again.
link |
And then it's just a dumb cycle
link |
of you being disgusting and gluttonous.
link |
Everybody wants to take steroids and just boop, I'm buff.
link |
Why'd you point at me?
link |
Well, I'm just saying.
link |
Because I'm Russian or what?
link |
Well, I saw the Icarus.
link |
But no, I'm not saying you're on roids.
link |
I'm just, you'd be way bigger.
link |
But I'm just saying, you know, work for something.
link |
And then I would also, young people eat shit early.
link |
I know a guy who kind of got canceled or whatever
link |
and he had an out early, but he tried to get by
link |
and he tried to ride it and it all came crumbling down.
link |
But if he had eaten it early, like, yeah, I fucked up.
link |
Whatever it was, he would've just kind of been shit on
link |
for a month and then it would've gone away.
link |
But now it's his whole identity and that sucks.
link |
So eat shit early.
link |
And I know it's hard to see, what do you mean early?
link |
I'm in the present.
link |
But look ahead, look back, this time will pass.
link |
I mean, look at high school.
link |
High school was the biggest thing in our lives.
link |
Oh my God, this exam, Susie Q hates me.
link |
The football player beat me up.
link |
Oh, I'll never recover.
link |
Now you don't even think about high school.
link |
It's just a blip in your dumb life, you know?
link |
And that's what this is now.
link |
This will just be a blip.
link |
So remember that and work towards something
link |
and work hard and care about the result.
link |
If the result isn't good, try it again.
link |
And failure is not always bad.
link |
Failure, we look at failure as this end all, be all.
link |
My life's over, I failed.
link |
But failure is really just learning.
link |
So that's something.
link |
So in summary, eat shit early and eat shit often.
link |
All right, Mark Norman.
link |
That's escalated quickly.
link |
All right, I have a list of random questions for you.
link |
What activities make you lose track of time?
link |
Have that go into that zone.
link |
You have this happiness, contentment about you
link |
that you just truly enjoy.
link |
Yeah, I think a good conversation.
link |
Like I'll sit at the comedy cellar with friends,
link |
maybe a little whiskey's flowing.
link |
And when you're really just vibing
link |
Inhibited. Inhibited.
link |
Uninhibited. Uninhibited.
link |
When you're just vibing and you're uninhibited
link |
and you're saying crazy shit and you're laughing
link |
and you're not worried, am I seeming cool right now?
link |
Am I seeming likable?
link |
When you're just you 100% and it's all coming out of you
link |
and then they're saying stuff and you go back and forth
link |
and you feel that excitement.
link |
Oh, they're talking, but I wanna say my thing.
link |
And you get all peed up.
link |
And I look at my watch, I'm like, fuck,
link |
it's three in the morning.
link |
We've been talking for five hours.
link |
That makes the time fly by.
link |
Also, I bought a, speaking of self driving cars,
link |
I bought a 1973 BMW car and it's classic
link |
and it's stick shift and it's grizzly and gritty and rusty
link |
and it's a bucket of bolts, but I love driving it.
link |
You and Tom Waits are poets.
link |
Have you taken like a long trip anywhere,
link |
like road trip in your life or with this BMW?
link |
Not with it, it's pretty new,
link |
Yeah, it's new to me.
link |
And it goes in the phase of everything we're doing now.
link |
Everything is digital, everything is automated,
link |
everything is hands off, everything is delivered.
link |
And this is the most hands on thing in the world.
link |
And I am dialed in, man.
link |
I got the tachometer, I keep an eye on that.
link |
Oh, I put the wrong gear in, shit.
link |
Oh, it's about to stall, put some gas, put some clutch.
link |
And it's all just brain power and staying in focus
link |
and all that, and it's the opposite of tweeting
link |
and texting and watching porn or whatever.
link |
So I almost needed that in my life,
link |
so I bought this car just to have this little exercise.
link |
I hope you don't mind that I'm just trying out
link |
random questions I wrote on you that are completely insane.
link |
I'm a guinea pig, jizz in my face.
link |
Bring it on, baby.
link |
This would be edited down to five minutes.
link |
If everyone on earth disappeared
link |
and it was just you left, what would your days look like?
link |
What would you do?
link |
That's tough, because I'm already an introvert
link |
and I try to avoid people mostly.
link |
Like I like a one on one, but crowds and all that is tough.
link |
So basically unchanged?
link |
Yeah, that's what I was gonna say,
link |
but then that's the irony is I would be so sad
link |
to not talk to anybody.
link |
So it's this weird, bittersweet thing,
link |
but I don't know what I would do, man.
link |
I guess it's kind of like when you're hung over,
link |
you just go into the primal survival mode.
link |
I gotta get food, I need water, I'm horny, jerk off.
link |
You just go, you're not like playing the piano
link |
or painting or at the gym.
link |
So I think I would just go into urges, man, primal urges.
link |
Find food, store food, am I safe?
link |
Make weapons, build a shelter that I can't get attacked in.
link |
I would go all survival mode.
link |
And then once I maybe realized if I was safe or not,
link |
there's no wild roaming dogs, I would start exploring.
link |
And maybe somehow get a vehicle and I would try to expand
link |
and that would be it.
link |
And maybe I'd journal.
link |
Exploring to what, to try to find new experiences?
link |
New life, if there's other,
link |
maybe there is another guy out there.
link |
Oh, so always there's a possibility.
link |
And then maybe there's a better place I could live.
link |
Let's find that and then moving on.
link |
Maybe there's more food over here.
link |
So yeah, the hope would drive me.
link |
But it would be bleak and sad and horrible also.
link |
So what you're saying is you really want other people
link |
to be there so you can hide from them, isn't it?
link |
Yes, yes, well said.
link |
All right, what's an item on your bucket list
link |
that you haven't done yet?
link |
Think about something you'd be very upset if you died
link |
and you haven't done.
link |
Well, I'm terrified of having kids,
link |
just because I'm a child myself
link |
and I'm selfish and lazy in a way.
link |
So kids are like, this is your whole life now, this is it.
link |
You gotta not let this thing die.
link |
You gotta love it, you gotta raise it.
link |
So kids scare the shit out of me,
link |
but I also feel like if I don't have them, I'll regret it.
link |
Well, you've seen so many people like you
link |
who are fundamentally changed by kids.
link |
Like it's a source, it's a source of,
link |
like a deep source of happiness,
link |
even though you didn't anticipate it.
link |
So you like, you penciled it into your bucket list.
link |
You're, it might be on there.
link |
Yeah, well, I want kids.
link |
I wanna get married, I wanna have kids.
link |
I kind of, I don't like choice.
link |
So in the following way,
link |
like I appreciate the value of scarcity
link |
and the power of scarcity.
link |
Like I don't like the modern dating culture.
link |
It's not some religious thing or whatever.
link |
I just like one girl for a long time
link |
or at least swinging for that always,
link |
like swinging for the fences.
link |
You could be swinging right now.
link |
There's a different use of the word swinging.
link |
What I'm saying, you could be clear.
link |
You look great, you're handsome.
link |
You get the job done.
link |
So I feel like you wouldn't leave without an orgasm on her.
link |
Yeah, but I just like to, you know, about furries.
link |
I like to dress up as animals
link |
and I just have trouble finding others who like the same.
link |
I could show you some chat rooms.
link |
You're also my coach for the internet.
link |
What are you most afraid of?
link |
I guess on Unlived Life.
link |
I was a big fan growing up of like wild guys, you know,
link |
like these Teddy Roosevelt's who would go out
link |
and hunt lions and like bar fighting guys.
link |
I was obsessed with the Hunter S. Thompson types.
link |
And look, this is what I love about guys like,
link |
who's a good example?
link |
Hemingway was the manliest guy.
link |
He had the rifle and the elephant gun and the whiskey
link |
and the writing and the women and the fist fights.
link |
But people forget that the other side of that coin
link |
is I'm sure he was in a lot of hotel rooms weeping.
link |
I'm sure he was lonely as fuck.
link |
I'm sure he had some wicked hangovers.
link |
I mean, he killed himself for Christ's sake.
link |
So obviously he was dealing with something.
link |
So the key to me is having this adventurous life,
link |
living to the fullest, doing crazy shit, scaring yourself,
link |
but also not killing yourself.
link |
Like also not hating,
link |
because I used to party a lot hard.
link |
I used to bang a lot of gals.
link |
And the flip side is like, this girl hates you now,
link |
or you got herpes or you're hungover,
link |
or your mom is like, where are you?
link |
You never call me anymore.
link |
You're like, oh, my mom, let ties go with my mom.
link |
So there's a horrible side to the party animal.
link |
The Keith Richards we don't see is not pretty.
link |
I mean, he's already weird looking,
link |
but he's partying, he's smoking, he's living.
link |
But there's another side of that coin.
link |
And I think the key to life
link |
is living that fucking crazy, awesome, badass life,
link |
and also having some meaning
link |
and a little bit of, what's the word?
link |
Not just not killing yourself,
link |
not going sad, not being depressed.
link |
There's a medium there, a sweet spot.
link |
Does that make sense?
link |
So taking big leaps and Hemingway,
link |
grabbing life by the balls,
link |
but at the same time, not crushing the balls,
link |
does that metaphor work at all?
link |
Perfect, like Evel Knievel, we all know him.
link |
What a badass, fearless, oh, man, what a cool dude.
link |
He's got balls of steel.
link |
But he also lived the back half of his life
link |
in a fucking barka lounger
link |
where his legs were made of steel
link |
and he couldn't see straight and his dick didn't work.
link |
So you know what I mean?
link |
You gotta have a balance, but you still want the balance.
link |
I'm willing to take a little bit of shit
link |
for a little bit of fun,
link |
but you don't want to go too hard.
link |
Well, you gotta still risk it.
link |
I mean, Hunter S. Thompson, it didn't end well.
link |
But it was quite a ride.
link |
What small act of kindness were you once shown
link |
that you will never forget?
link |
Wow, that's a great question.
link |
I just wrote these for the guinea pig.
link |
You're the guinea pig.
link |
That's great, that's a keeper.
link |
Keep that question. Okay, that's a keeper?
link |
This is where we're like workshopping questions here.
link |
All right, I'll take it.
link |
Now you're open biking.
link |
This is your version.
link |
Let's see, there's a couple ladies in high school
link |
who were kind enough to hand job me.
link |
That was nice, which I really appreciate.
link |
I don't think women know how much that means to us.
link |
You know, women are like,
link |
oh, I'm not a piece of meat or whatever.
link |
And you're like, I know, but if you just gave me a hand job,
link |
it would make my world.
link |
It's like telling a kid he's smart or loved.
link |
See, most people mention like a math teacher,
link |
middle school, that would inspire them to get into science.
link |
You give a shout out to the thing.
link |
Well, that's part of it, that's not the nicest,
link |
but I'm just saying that goes a long way.
link |
Let's see, kindness.
link |
That's a great question.
link |
I wanna give you a good answer.
link |
I got lost when I was like six.
link |
I was walking around my dad and I zoned out and went away.
link |
And next thing you know, I don't know where I am.
link |
I'm in a neighborhood.
link |
This old guy finds me crying on a lawn somewhere
link |
and he goes, come inside.
link |
And he tried to call my parents and nothing came of it.
link |
Eventually they found me after like nine hours,
link |
cops were there, the FBI is out there, fucking helicopters.
link |
And I guess, you know, that's nice.
link |
This old guy took me in for a couple of hours
link |
and just sat me down and kept me safe.
link |
Oh, how about Enis?
link |
My transvestite nanny, very kind.
link |
He, did you hear about this?
link |
We had this transvestite nanny who was like a drag queen,
link |
but it was in the 90s.
link |
And my bike got stolen and he, you know,
link |
my parents were like, eh, what are you gonna do?
link |
They're poor kids, you know?
link |
And he was like, fuck it, we're gonna go get that bike.
link |
And I was like, this guy's in a wig and high heels,
link |
And I'm like, ah, what are you gonna do?
link |
You know, it's gone.
link |
And he's like, nah, we're gonna go get it.
link |
So we got in the van and drove around my neighborhood,
link |
saw the kids, fuck with the bike, you know,
link |
five street tufts.
link |
And he goes, all right, you want to come out
link |
or should I just do this?
link |
And I was like, you do it.
link |
What are you, crazy?
link |
And he got out of the van in full, you know,
link |
And he went up to these guys and they went off.
link |
Oh my God, look at this fucking guy,
link |
homo faggot, all this shit.
link |
You know, it's the 90s.
link |
And he just stared at them long enough
link |
to where they were kind of like, all right,
link |
well, I guess we're gonna fight you now.
link |
And he goes, that's not your bike.
link |
And they go, what are you gonna do about it?
link |
And he puts his hand on the middle of the bike
link |
and they didn't do anything.
link |
And he just picked it up and said, that's what I thought.
link |
Put the bike over his shoulder, slid the van door open,
link |
threw the bike in and we drove off.
link |
Somebody stuck up for you.
link |
Yeah, and you know, I mean, he could have got,
link |
I mean, they had tools.
link |
They could have fucking tuned him up, two seconds.
link |
That actually like takes courage.
link |
Oh yeah, real courage.
link |
And then that, the reason you do an act like that
link |
is that makes a kid like you feel like
link |
there's somebody on your side, that's powerful.
link |
Someone on your side is big.
link |
That goes a long way.
link |
Especially when they have the risk
link |
of getting their ass kicked or their job taken away
link |
or whatever it is.
link |
Now we're gonna get philosophical,
link |
maybe a little bit emotional.
link |
Oh, would you rather lose all your old memories
link |
or never be able to make new ones?
link |
It's a tough one, but I'd go easy answer, make new ones.
link |
But don't you think all the shitty things
link |
that happen to you?
link |
Oh, so my hard drive is wiped clean.
link |
It's not, is it memories
link |
or is it how every memory affected me too?
link |
I mean, this is a very.
link |
Or do they go hand in hand?
link |
I think the reality about memories
link |
is you replay them often.
link |
You go back to them even when you're not aware of it.
link |
You really go, you go back often like that.
link |
You change them too.
link |
Yeah, you change them to suit your understanding
link |
And so the dark view you have,
link |
both the hope and the cynicism you have about the world
link |
is so deeply grounded in the memories
link |
that you're basically, I would say,
link |
if you erase all memories,
link |
I think you're really starting over
link |
with maybe the wisdom of how the world works,
link |
but not so much of your personality is gone.
link |
it'd be interesting how your comedy would change.
link |
Maybe you would have a good sense of timing.
link |
You have a good sense of the writing process maybe.
link |
Now you're making some good points,
link |
but let me ask you this.
link |
Let's say I go to Lake Cuomo with my girlfriend.
link |
Now, like I wipe the memory or I keep my old memories.
link |
Let's say I go to the Tuscany with the lady.
link |
I just won't remember that?
link |
Yeah, but you get to experience it in the moment.
link |
You'll get to enjoy it.
link |
Can I look at a photo of it?
link |
But I would, what the hell is this?
link |
The rules are pretty simple.
link |
I think everyone knows how the rules go.
link |
So you would, yeah, so what?
link |
Well, I was gonna say start new ones,
link |
but then I realized I wouldn't be who I was without them.
link |
That's what you're saying.
link |
So I guess I'd keep them.
link |
Cause I am 38, so I've gotten a good chunk out of life.
link |
And let's be honest, how many years do you have left?
link |
Is it better to have loved,
link |
okay, this question is ridiculous.
link |
Is it better to have loved than lost
link |
or to have never loved at all?
link |
It sounds cliche, but there's a question.
link |
Definitely better to loss.
link |
So you enjoy the ups and downs.
link |
Yeah, that's life.
link |
We're sun and rain, baby.
link |
I kind of like both, the whole thing.
link |
The loss, every time you lose something,
link |
it really makes you distinctly realize
link |
how much you valued it.
link |
Like when I'm feeling alone and I'm sitting there alone
link |
at home and I wish I could hang out with somebody,
link |
that's like a realization how awesome people are.
link |
So it's like the missing, yeah.
link |
We don't have a lot of that in life anymore
link |
because we can have anything we want immediately.
link |
So the missing has gone away,
link |
which again drives down the joy of having it.
link |
So I think you're right, you need both.
link |
So like you said, you have a terminal condition,
link |
not many years left.
link |
Do you think about your mortality?
link |
You think about that?
link |
All day, every day.
link |
Not afraid, because it's inevitable.
link |
So it's more like, how are we gonna handle this?
link |
It's like the winter is coming,
link |
let's stock up on some fucking nuts.
link |
But the existential nature of it,
link |
like the fact that this ride ends,
link |
like what the hell are you doing any of this for?
link |
Satisfaction, happiness.
link |
Short term, but like there is a presumption there
link |
that it kind of goes on forever.
link |
I think if you truly think about the fact that it ends.
link |
Your brain almost shuts it down.
link |
Yeah, there's some kind of like protective like switch
link |
that just goes off.
link |
I mean, that's why the Stoics encourage people
link |
to meditate on death,
link |
because it somehow reorganizes your priorities.
link |
It helps you like, holy shit,
link |
this ends, make the most of the day.
link |
It's just a nice thing,
link |
but still you can't quite comprehend that the thing ends.
link |
Little things too.
link |
People go like, oh, we got a layover between our flights.
link |
It's an hour, what are we gonna do for an hour?
link |
It's like, what do you mean,
link |
what are you gonna do for an hour?
link |
You're gonna kill an hour.
link |
How are we gonna kill this hour?
link |
This is part of your life.
link |
You're just trying to get rid of it,
link |
you're just trying to kill it.
link |
That always blew my mind.
link |
Like, hey, fuck it, let's go hit the airport bar.
link |
Let's get a candy bar or something, anything with bar.
link |
But it's just, you've gotta live.
link |
I hate this like, how are we gonna burn?
link |
Oh, the bar didn't open for 15 minutes.
link |
What are we gonna do?
link |
Well, we got 15 minutes.
link |
The world is our oyster.
link |
Yeah, make the most of it.
link |
And like you said, in modern day,
link |
actually the boredom is a gift.
link |
Like when you're waiting for something, that's a gift.
link |
You get to be with your thoughts.
link |
Those are the same thoughts you'll have
link |
when you're on your deathbed.
link |
There won't be a, you won't be scrolling TikTok
link |
I hope not, Jesus.
link |
You'd be a lot more, actually maybe you would be.
link |
What a sad existence.
link |
Because it would be a good,
link |
like content creators would be like,
link |
ooh, I'm dying, this would be good content.
link |
Yeah, I wanna be able to sure,
link |
film the exact moment it goes, beep.
link |
Like last words, I wonder what my last words will be.
link |
It'd be a good way to like end the account with a bang.
link |
Well, you know that you ever seen that meme
link |
where the old guy in bed, he goes,
link |
I wish I had tweeted more, you know, and then he dies.
link |
Could be the future.
link |
What do you think is the meaning of life?
link |
I don't think there is one.
link |
Everybody always throws that out there.
link |
There isn't a meaning.
link |
I think we're here, we're lucky to be here.
link |
I think there's no afterlife, there's no heaven.
link |
That's all shit we tell ourselves to feel better.
link |
And I think you gotta just, it's like saying,
link |
what is the meaning of this food I made?
link |
Well, it's just you enjoy the food,
link |
you try to get the most out of it.
link |
You built the food, you prepared it.
link |
So just get what you can out of it.
link |
Don't die and try to make it last as long as possible.
link |
Yeah, but you look at Earth,
link |
it's like 4 billion years old.
link |
And life started early on, like simple cell bacteria life,
link |
like 1 billion years in.
link |
And then it started like having lots
link |
of aggressive interaction.
link |
Eventually there's predator and prey and there's sex,
link |
lots of sex, lots of sex, lots of violence.
link |
And then, you know, through natural selection,
link |
there's just the whole evolutionary process of animals
link |
that have loved and lost and murdered and gotten murdered
link |
and all that kind of stuff.
link |
And it's somehow led to human civilization.
link |
We're super busy trying to create things
link |
and creating beautiful art, creating beautiful comedy.
link |
Just always creating something new.
link |
It feels like it's tending towards something, like.
link |
If you die tomorrow, you still have all these hours of pods.
link |
So it's kind of, you think you're cheating death
link |
in a subconscious way, I think.
link |
Right, you know who Ernest Becker is and?
link |
I've heard the name.
link |
It's a book called Denial of Death,
link |
this idea that if you don't acknowledge.
link |
Books on my shelf.
link |
No, I'm just, I'm saying.
link |
You want to bring Tolstoy, Dostoevsky?
link |
Russian literature, it's back to norm.
link |
It's good to bring to,
link |
because no American has read any Russian literature,
link |
but they all appreciate it if you bring it.
link |
And it's not like they're going to ask you
link |
any legitimate questions because they haven't read it.
link |
So you can always pretend like you've read it, so.
link |
It's a little dense.
link |
Can we get a shortened version?
link |
Yes, or make a movie with, you know, Ben Stiller
link |
that I can just go, oh, this is based on,
link |
what is it, life and death?
link |
No, what's the one?
link |
War and peace, yeah.
link |
Yeah, so Ernest Becker's theory,
link |
and there's this whole terror management theory
link |
that basically says that like our terror of death,
link |
our fear of death is one of the central creative forces
link |
of the human condition.
link |
It's the reason we're trying to, yeah, cheat death.
link |
We're trying to dilute ourself
link |
that somehow we can become immortal through our art.
link |
That's why you've uploaded your special to YouTube
link |
because you think your special
link |
will outlive all of human civilization.
link |
You think YouTube will outlive all of human civilization.
link |
That could go away tomorrow.
link |
That can go away tomorrow.
link |
All of this can go away.
link |
So I'm truly grateful.
link |
Mr. Mark Norman, that you would spend
link |
your very valuable time with me today
link |
even though it could all go away.
link |
This could be the last day of our lives,
link |
and won't you be quite upset that this is how you spent it?
link |
Ah, yeah, in your hotel room, what am I?
link |
You're like Harvey Weinstein here.
link |
You poured me up, and now I feel fucked.
link |
Just wait, what we have ready for you
link |
after the podcast is over.
link |
All right, brother, thanks so much for talking today.
link |
Thank you, it was great.
link |
Thanks for listening to this conversation with Mark Norman.
link |
To support this podcast,
link |
please check out our sponsors in the description.
link |
And now let me leave you with some words
link |
from Mark Norman himself on his Twitter,
link |
which you should definitely follow because it's hilarious.
link |
The worst thing about getting Omicron for Christmas
link |
is you know it was regifted.
link |
Thank you for listening, and hope to see you next time.