back to indexMark Normand: Comedy! | Lex Fridman Podcast #255
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The following is a conversation with Mark Normand, a New York comedian who has a way
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with words that is often both dark and hilarious. Let there be a warning, dear friends, to proceed
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with caution and to wear protection. You may, in fact, need it. He has a special on his YouTube
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called Out to Lunch and a new special on Netflix as part of the Stand Up Season 3 series I recommend
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you watch. This is the Lex Friedman podcast. To support it, please check out our sponsors in
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the description. And now, here's my conversation with Mark Normand. I asked Tim Dillon about
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Bukowski first, so let me continue on that tradition and ask you about something that
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Charles Bukowski said about love. Are we rolling? Yes. Oh geez, no hello, no nothing. Nope. I thought
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I was robotic. Bukowski said love is a fog that burns away with the first daylight of reality.
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So Mark Normand, let me first ask you about love. What are your thoughts about love? You talk about
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your relationship quite a bit. Do you think love can last? I do, but I think it's work. Everybody
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wants love to be this prepackaged, perfect, euphoric thing, but it's like a good body.
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We're all born with a good body, but you got to keep it in shape and it's the same with a loving
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relationship. I think you, nobody wants to do the work. That's the problem. You talked about,
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I think you told a story about being unfaithful to a previous girlfriend or something like that.
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I think the story goes that you were like drifting apart. Who are you talking to? Bert
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Kreischer maybe or something like that? Yeah, we were high school sweethearts dated for like
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12 years and then. So that wasn't love anymore. That was more like a relationship. It was comfort,
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it was routine and we just slipped into that kind of married life autopilot world and I tried to
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break up I think and it didn't take. It was one of those things. Our lives are just so baked in
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and then I think I cheated and she caught me and it was ugly and then we went to therapy to try
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to work it out, but it's much like a car that gets into a wreck. The door just never closed the
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same. You know what I mean? Yeah. So what are your thoughts about the commitment like outside of
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love marriage? I think it's an antiquated idea. I think it's kind of silly and unrealistic and I
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think we're coming out of that as we get all polyamorous and non binary and queefy and all
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this stuff. I think we're slowly moving away from that, but I think a lot of the ladies
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more majority women like marriage like the idea of it. Like I'm a fiance now or whatever you call
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it. I'm gauged and I mean she is just going hog wild. She's loving it. She's got the dress thing,
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pick a venue, flower and she's deep in whereas I feel guilty because I'm just like, oh geez.
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Is it planned already? What's the wedding? It's a squid game. I'm just living life.
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It's planned. It's in New Orleans. I'm from there and it's next year. Are you married?
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No, single. Virgin? Of course, yeah. I can't imagine. I bet you'd be great in bed. You're
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ripped. Best hairline in podcasts. Yeah, I don't know. I haven't tried yet, so we'll have to see.
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All right. Well, let me know. Pretty big hog on you. Yeah, I could see you packing a crazy,
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crazy tool downtown. That matters to girls? Apparently, yeah. That's all I hear about.
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Okay. New Orleans. You grew up in New Orleans? Yeah. Born and raised.
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Tremay, outside the French Quarter. Ever been? Yeah. Don't remember it. Oh, you drink? Yeah,
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I drink. Of course, I drink. I don't know. I can't tell if you have fun. No, not really, but Russian.
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I mean, Russian, of course, I drink vodka, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah. I don't know.
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Beer was just labeled an alcoholic beverage in 2011. Fun fact. What do you mean? In Russia.
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It was just drinks. It was just like apple juice before. It finally got declared legally as an
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alcoholic beverage. Which means you can regulate it, that kind of thing. I guess so. Yeah. See,
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that's where your brain goes. Yeah. I just go all these fucking Ruskies. I didn't even know
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there's rules about drinking. It's good. I'm learning about Russia from you. So,
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what's the difficult memory experience from childhood in New Orleans that made you the man
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you are today? I don't know if it made me the man, but jeez, I had a lot of scuffles in the
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neighborhood with I was the white kid in the neighborhood. So, I was automatically the odd
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man out, the minority, the weirdo, the dork, the dweeb, the honky. So, just a lot of memories of
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getting slapped in the face by guys and just having to take it because there's like five guys there
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and they'd be like, oh, look, you don't even fight back. And you're like, what am I going to do?
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Hit you and then get beat up by these guys. So, a lot of that stuff was a big bummer growing up,
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got robbed all the time, lost a lot of bicycles, had a bicycle taken from under me. That was pretty
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brutal. These kids pulled up, you know, they're like 17 and I was 13 and I had a face paint on,
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like I had a not black face, but I was at a summer camp and I had a rainbow face painted on me. We
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were helping kids that day. So, I let them put paint on me. And so, now I'm riding home. What a
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mark. What a goober I am. I'm riding home and these guys see me a mile away. I'm a sitting duck
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and they go, we can take his bike. He's got a fucking rainbow on his cheek. So, they just go,
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hey, you know, like cut in front of you. They go, let me try your bike. I go, I'm good. I'm good.
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I knew what they wanted. And they go, let me try the bike and then just push me and took the bike.
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The stuff like that was really shaping the insecurity, the self worth.
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They did. Because I've been mugged when I was younger too.
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Really? Yeah. It changes your view of human nature a little bit.
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For sure. You go, wow, I didn't know people could be this mean. It's cool.
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Inconsiderate. I'm always worried about it. Did I fart too much? Am I annoying? Am I pissing this
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guy off? But what a way to live. I want the bike. I'm taking it. Fuck his feelings.
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For me, that quickly turned into realizing that that's just a temporary phase that those folks
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are in. They have a capacity to be good. For some reason, for me, that was a motivation to see,
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can we discover, can we incentivize them to find a better path in life? I wasn't all like,
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I don't know, Gandhi about it. Of course, I was pissing all those kinds of things, but
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I don't know. It seemed like just the kind of thing you might do when you're younger.
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You hope. But this is adult crime, obviously. Yeah, I know. But yeah, exactly. And then it solidifies
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and then you're beyond saving at some point. But it's like, there's always an opportunity to
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make a better life for yourself, to become a better version of yourself.
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Yeah. And I remember coming home crying with no bike. And my mom, my parents are like,
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liberal to a fault where they were like, oh, well, they need it. They're poor kids in the
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neighborhood. You're like, all right. But I also have a bicycle that I ride around. And I also
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like to live in an area that's not just riddled with theft and vandalism, but they were just like,
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ah, they need it. And then it was a moot point, we just moved on. So I remember very young being
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like, all right, I got to figure my shit out. Okay. So you said you were beat up quite a bit,
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like bullying and stuff pushed around. I was never hospitalized or anything. But you know,
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you get a black guy here and there and a bloody nose, stuff like that. And it was just the out
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numbered thing. The violence didn't really bother me because you're just kids, you're boys. Yeah.
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But it was the predatory, let's get them. We can take him down. He's an easy target.
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That's what kills you, the mental part. Yeah. Until you actually said I didn't realize,
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because I've been in what do you call them, scuffles. And there was just one that stands
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out to me where, yeah. Let's hear it, Fatty. Bring it on. And you do jujitsu and all that stuff,
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right? Yeah, I can see the guns through the suit. You're like John Wick. All right. Well,
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I used to have, now you're going to start making fun of me. I used to have long hair for like a
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couple of years. I was in a band playing music and stuff like that. And there was,
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like most of the fights I've been in were basically one on one, maybe a little bit like,
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a little extra stuff, but not outnumbered. And this one particular time, I've learned a lot
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of lessons, but one of them was, there was a fight started between me and this other person.
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And then his buddies, I guess, were there. Uh oh. And they, as opposed to like breaking
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it up or letting it happen, one of them grabbed my hair. It's the first time anybody grabbed,
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like used it in my hair in a fight, which I haven't since then realized that that's actually
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a really powerful grip and a powerful weapon. Oh yeah. Oh, very vulnerable of you.
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And then my head got pulled back and they pulled me down to the ground. Like I couldn't do anything.
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It was so, I remember being exceptionally frustrated. Yes. That was the feeling like,
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I can't do anything here. I'm like trapped. And then they, there was just like kicking me and
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hitting me and stuff like that. And the outnumbered part of it, because I always kind of remember
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the trapped part because I just hated from a fighting grappling perspective how like,
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the feeling was this isn't fair. Yes. That's what it is. It's a deep, deep unfairness. Yeah.
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That you just can't, you can't win. The mob wins. Yeah. The mob wins.
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Scary stuff. And, but it makes a, makes a man out of you in a weird way that builds character.
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You realize life isn't fair early and you, you go on from there. So it's something there. And
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look at you today. They're probably, you know, eating out of a dumpster at a Krispy Kreme and
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you're here, got eight podcasts. You're doing great. You're talking to giant Titans of the industry.
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No, I, I do remember returning home that night. I mean that, you said you were crying.
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That's really formative. Like, that's the point in which you get to decide, what do I make of
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this moment? I mean, especially when you're younger, maybe it's not presented to you that way. But like,
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some of the greatest people in history were bullied in these kinds of ways. And they made
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something of themselves in this moment, like bullied by life in some kind of way. It's,
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it's like an opportunity for growth. It's weird, but like hardship even in small doses is like
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an opportunity for growth. Totally. I mean, look at Richard Pryor. They say he's labeled as the
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best comedian of all time, grew up in a whorehouse, watch his mom get plowed by these guys in the,
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in the middle of Indiana, I want to say. And just who had a harder life. He would suck dick for
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drugs, all this stuff growing up, beat up. And then the weird thing is, oops, sorry, that's my
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birth control alarm. And then the, the whole world is like trying to get rid of bullying.
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But we still do bullying, but now it's accepted bullying. It's very strange.
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So you're, you're a proponent of beating kids up? Is that what you're saying?
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Yes. And sex with them. All right. But no, I just think it's part of life and it's horrible. It's
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like rain. You got to have it. Look, a rainy day is a bummer, you know, but you need it. And I think
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it's similar to that. What was your relationship like with your, your mom, your dad? Well,
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what are some memorable moments with them? What did you learn from them?
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Good parents, the giving thoughtful, a little out to lunch, you know, they were workaholics. So
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that was, it was hard to get a lot out of them. And my dad was kind of an angry dad. I think he
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just had like a weird childhood and he's just trying to make it and he's trying to provide,
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but it's hard. And we live in this horrible neighborhood and we're getting robbed all the
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time. So life was kind of coming down on him all the time. So then he'll take it out on you or
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whoever he would snap. But great parents, they cared, they put us first. But there wasn't a lot of,
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I don't know, you see, you never go to a friend's house as a kid and there's like a
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picture of a ski trip and you're like, ski trip. What the hell is that about? You know,
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it was a lot of that and smart, very smart people, but I don't know how well they were at
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socializing. So you never like bonded with them like in a deep human level?
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Some body, but rarely deep. Yeah, it was just almost co worker. It cold out. Huh?
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What? It's cold out, huh? Oh yeah, like that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, gotcha.
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Get there a little bit, but it, my parents are done. I hope they never do this. But they would do
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a thing where my dad especially would do a thing where he would, uh, he knew how to cut you down
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right to the bone. And so after a while, you're like, I'm not even going to interact with this
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guy because he, he can get you so well. One time we were at a, uh, like a Thanksgiving,
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some kind of family of event and all the cousins are there. And I remember I was holding court.
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I was a young boy finding my comedic legs in this weird tumultuous sea we call a family
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and I was killing and, um, my dad comes out when he goes, what are you holding court?
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And I was like, ah, and I felt like I was this big. I just shrunk down. He just nailed it
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because in my head I'm like, I'm holding court. Look at me. I got the whole room and he goes,
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what are you, what are you holding court here? Who the hell do you think you are? And I was like,
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he's right. I shouldn't be holding court. Who the fuck am I? I'm nobody. So, uh,
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stuff like that. Was he aware that you think he wasn't? He wasn't. I don't think he was, but
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do you, do you give, um, parents a pass when they're unaware of the destructive? Like,
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is it better when they're unaware? Cause it seems like that's the way that's true. That's
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way the way parents often fail is they're not intentionally malevolent. They're just like
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coolest. Yeah. It's a bittersweet thing. Cause you're like, okay, he's not malicious. He's not
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trying to hurt me, but also he doesn't know he hurt me. I don't know. It's, it's tough. Cause
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if he was trying to hurt you, I guess that would be worse. So you're the fully baked Mark
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Norman cake at this point. Uh, what do you, uh, fruit salad, you know, the sense of self worth
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you mentioned. I think in your comedy, there's a sense like you hate yourself. You think? I
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didn't know if that came through. Shit. I was trying to hide that part. God damn it. I mean,
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when you like in the privacy of your mind, are you able to love yourself or is it mostly self
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hate? What happened to this podcast? I didn't know it was on a Mr. or Dr. Phil. Dr. Phil. I thought
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we were going to talk about engineering and climate change and rockets. Uh, okay. Starts with love
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goes to rockets. All right. I like that. I like that's a t shirt. Um, I mean, like, what's the
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question? Sorry. Do I feel love? No, no, no, like, uh, yeah, yeah. So are you, um,
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like this engine of being self critical of just being constantly anxious about how the world
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perceives you, these kinds of things. Is this something that you just go to for, for comedy?
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Or is this who you are as a human being? I think I, I don't want to explore it. I think I get
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around it. You know, I tap dance around it, but I get it out a little with my act, maybe, because
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I, I can't do it. I'm not doing it in real life. So I'll get out this, uh, no love, not loving
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myself. I don't know who wants to love themself. Everybody always like, you got to love yourself.
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And then when you meet somebody who does love yourself, you're like, I fucking hate this guy.
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Don't you hate the guy who's upset? I'm great. I'm awesome. Life is good. You're like, ah,
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this guy sucks. I'd rather an insecure guy. So maybe I want to stay insecure. Maybe I don't want
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to find this love for myself. Well, okay. So self love, like just appreciating who you are or
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like appreciating the moment of being grateful doesn't have to express itself by the guy saying,
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I'm awesome. True. It's more just like humility. He's just like walking calmly through the world
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and just being grateful to be alive, that kind of thing. And just, and like, oh, being appreciative
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of all the accomplishments he made so far. I say all this because mostly I'm extremely self critical
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and everything I do. And so, um, and I kind of enjoy it. I think it's a nice little engine that
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it makes it fun. It makes life fun. Cause it's like, if you hate everything you do,
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like you've done in the past, that gives you like, all right, we can do better. Yes. But
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that's the key is making itself critical. Always trying to get better. I could change this. I could
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tweak this. I could improve this. When you just go, I hate that I do this. I suck. You just shut
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down. So that's the key is, is always being productive with the, with the criticism. Yeah.
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And the basics of life, I'm just like grateful for it to be alive. That's nice to be a couple,
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like couple of that with two legs. Again, the hairline, the hog, the muscles, the world,
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you got a good brain on you. I mean, you're, you're lucky. You're in the top. You know,
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most people are fat as shit at Burger King right now, hitting their kids. You're in a,
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you're in a Ramada hotel sitting with a, you know, a low level comedian. For the record,
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I ate McDonald's last night. All right. Well, you're human. Well, just so you know,
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this is not me defending. I'm not sponsored by McDonald's, but I mostly eat meat and there's
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nothing wrong with the, the beef they have. It's actually one of the easiest ways late at night.
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I think it's two worse. I don't know if it's actually. It's, it's actually rats. Yeah, you're
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right. But hey, it's just meat. I'm a meat guy myself. They say in 20 years, we're going to
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look back and go, uh, can you believe people ate meat? It's going to be like slavery.
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Yeah. There's some mythical, difficult things with factory farming.
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Yeah. So let's ride it out now. We still got it. And now it's on record.
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Tom Waits says something about New York. You like Tom Waits?
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I think he's underrated. I think he's got great, he's got a great, uh,
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he's great equips and quotes. Check him out on YouTube. He's got some montages and
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supercuts of him being hilarious. What does he say about, um,
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I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
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That was the one. That was the one that sold me. I was like, this guy's awesome.
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Yeah. But his music, cause he's just a genius musician.
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Yeah. Anyway, he was talking about New York. I was walking around these, I'm in New York right
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now. We're in New York right now. It's still a magical city to me. A lot of people are quite
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cynical about it, about the state of things, but not, not like Michael Malis, like a lot of friends
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of mine. They're just a lot of folks in San Francisco, New York, there's something about
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the pandemic where people have become quite cynical about the place they are and they tried
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to escape. It's interesting. I mean, they're asking some difficult questions about what they are in
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life. They're having like a self impose midlife crisis is good, I think for everybody to go
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through this process, but I think, I hope New York reemerges. It will.
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As the flourishing place for the weirdos. Anyway, the Tom Wade said, New York, of course,
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is to be in endless surreal situations where a $50,000 gunmetal Mercedes pulls up in a
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puddle of blood and outsteps a 25 karat blonde with a $2 wrist watch. And he goes, he keeps
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going on. So like it's like, that's like bars. He's like a rap. Yeah, he's good. But basically,
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just the absurdity of it all, lots of money, lots of weirdos, degenerates and dreamers and the whole,
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the whole mix of it. Do you think, do you think that's an accurate description of what New York
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is today? Like, is there still place for the weirdos and just the interesting artists,
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the, the edgy, the comedians, the, the creators, the, the, the, the entrepreneur is like,
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as opposed to like Wall Street, as opposed to like rich folk and then like hopeless folk.
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Yeah, I think it's definitely changed a lot. There's a, there's a tiny corner for us weirdo
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artists. New York used to be where you went to make it as a painter or whatever, a comedian or a
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singer. And there were all these dives and shit boxes and all these places you could go. And now
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there's now it's more pink berries and subway sandwiches and Chase Banks. So it's definitely
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lost a lot of its creative edge. It's just money, money keeps coming in. And now you see all these
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comedians move to Nashville, Austin, Denver, whatever. So it doesn't have the, the power it
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used to have of like, you got to be here. If you want to make it, that's definitely gone. So that
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hurt the city a lot. The city is, is way more soulless. When I moved here in 07, I mean, not
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only did I get mugged three times in the first year, but it was a hub of like, it felt like
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things were happening here. You know, it was, it was an energy. It was an electricity. And we
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still have the electricity, but it's also maybe just cause it's Times Square. There's Soho. There's
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a Wall Street. So we got the staples, but there is a little bit of that. It's almost like a marriage.
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Like, yeah, we're in love, but it's not as passionate as it once was. That's how I would equate New
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York. What gives you hope? You're pretty hopeful about it though. I'm hopeful just because I know
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it's magical. And I, and I think it has to be, I mean, it's the epicenter of America. Like,
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this is where the immigrants came. And this is where the stock market is. And the entertainment
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industry, a lot of it is here. So I think it's, it's going to happen, but it's something like
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the bottom has to fall out. And then people have to move back here and all that. So something,
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the corporations are kind of fucking us. They're just buying everything.
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Well, that's true for everything. It's true for Austin probably as well. People are just buying
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out land and all that kind of stuff. You always hear a Hemingway and Dolly and all these guys
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went to Paris in the 20s or whatever that was. Yeah, I get it now. I feel like, why do these
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guys go to Paris? You know, why are these artists? And now I get it because it's like,
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it's freer there. That's why Austin became like that Paris, where everybody's like,
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I got to get out of LA. I'm going there. And maybe, but we came back from that, you know,
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the seventies were wild and nineties were cool. So maybe it'll come back. I just take a decade.
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Well, there's always, that's how stories are told. There's always pockets of
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like Paris within New York, right? True. There's just an opportunity to
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let your weird flourish is there in New York, I'm sure. I mean,
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it's there. You got to find it before it was front and center.
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What's your favorite thing about New York? Like what kind of things just like,
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I mean, how long is this pod? I could go on. It's too much to put into one hour. We've got
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other questions, but I love that one neighborhood is wildly different than the next. I mean,
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little Italy, and then you take four steps. Now I'm in Chinatown. I mean, and then the history
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there and then the stories and the food and the culture and all that. And then you go 10 feet
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over here. Now you're in Brooklyn and this is insane as a whole nother world. And it's almost
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like a little America in one, you know, a city and it's great. And just the fact that they pulled
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it off like Fifth Avenue goes way up and you're like, there's a billionaire's house next to a
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hobo. And then this is a black guy who's fighting with a Cuban guy and an Asian guy is trying to
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get in the middle of them and the cabbies from the Middle East. And there's so many beautiful
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women here. And there's so many brilliant minds here. And the pace is great. It keeps people
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moving. I mean, it just, you can't beat it. And the city will fuck you in the ass too. Don't get
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me wrong. You landed JFK and you're like, Oh God, I got mugged. My Uber driver called me a
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homo. I stepped in human shit. Where the fuck am I? So yeah, it's bad news. But that bad news,
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it's almost like the bullying. It kills you in a weird way, but it makes you stronger and you
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build more layers and layers and layers. That's why some new guys, some hayseed from Milwaukee
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shows up. You've been here 10 years and you go, let me help you out because you got to adjust.
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You're going to get your ass kicked for like six months. But I know the ropes a little and I think
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you need a little of that. If the treadmill is not on, you're not going to run. New York,
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the treadmill is on. So it just makes you run and it makes you better and look at wears on you.
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You probably lose 10 years of your life living in New York versus Indianapolis, but
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it's a better life. Have you seen 25th hour? Yeah. It's been a while. Spike Lee joint?
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Yeah, Spike Lee joint. I mean, at Norton, there's a whole like monologue there about New York.
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Oh, that's right. But they're talking about just, he has like a mix. There's like melancholy music,
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I think, or just a melancholy feel to the whole thing, but there's an anger and a disgust with
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the city. But through the anger and the disgust comes out like a love for the city. Same with
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was Taxi Driver in New York? Oh yeah. It's going crazy. Yeah. So like that, there's something
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about that. What is that? What is that grit of the city that like pushes you down?
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Well, that's the beauty of the city is it's this tribal human nature like the sex shops and fist
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fights and racism and all this tension, but yet it's the epicenter of technology and finance
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and sophistication on Fifth Avenue. So you get that juxtaposition. It's kind of like in Boston.
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You go to Boston, they got MIT, they got Hobbit, they got all this shit. And then they got the
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fishermen, the blue collar douchebags, the Irish guys, the immigrants, you know, and you get that
link |
mix of like insanely smart with Wicked Pissa and these two worlds. And that's a good thing.
link |
It's like when a black guy fucks an Asian lady, that's a good looking kid. You get a mix. We're
link |
mixing two totally different things. They're coming together and it makes it like peanut butter and
link |
chocolate. Peanut butter and chocolate. I've never tried that. What? Peanut butter. Maybe I have.
link |
I'm talking about Reese's, man. Like Reese's, yeah, and yeah, yeah. Oh, it's the best candy.
link |
Yeah. Without the fakeness of LA, without the kind of facade. Yeah, LA's tough.
link |
What's the difference between LA comedy and New York comedy, too?
link |
I think one place you kind of go to make it and be discovered and be loved and one place
link |
you go, you can get all that in New York, too, but I think in New York it's more of a school,
link |
a boot camp of comedy. Let's make great comedy. Let's make original comedy. Let's watch the other
link |
guys and gals who are at the show, at the clubs and learn from them and try to hang out with them
link |
and absorb some of them. In LA, it's like, when am I on? I'm next. Get out of my way.
link |
I'm the star here. I'm a bigger star than you. Oh, this guy's actually a big star. I got to
link |
outwork. It's just a lot of that instead of like, damn, that was funny. I got to be that funny.
link |
Damn, I wish I had a joke. Look, I don't want to speak for LA comics because there's
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Bill Burr and the Gelseneck. There's brilliant LA comic, but they all cut their teeth in New
link |
York. Just saying. Then they moved to LA. It's a good point. All these people kill their comics,
link |
but New York started in New York, moved to New York. There is something about comics that's
link |
staying in New York for a long time, though, like Dave Vitell. You know about Dave? Yeah,
link |
he wants to do this podcast. He does? Yeah, I'm a huge fan of Dave Vitell. But it's almost like he
link |
doesn't want to make it. I don't know. I mean, you probably know him, but it feels like you just,
link |
maybe it's romanticizing it, but you're like, you almost just love the art of comedy of like
link |
becoming funnier, crafting the jokes, becoming funnier than the other comics, like competing
link |
with each other kind of thing. Not over like money or fame or any of that. Just purely the
link |
comedy of it. Totally. That's Dave. That's him in a nutshell. He's like that guy in the movies in
link |
the 80s, action movies where they're like, they go up to a creek in Montana and some guys living
link |
in a cabin and he's sharpening a stick and they go, the Russians are coming. They're invading.
link |
We need you. You're the best commando. And he's like, I gave that up, man. I'm done with that
link |
lifestyle. They're like, but you're the best. We need you. And he has to suit up eventually.
link |
You know, he looks at a picture of his dead wife and he goes, fuck it. I'm going. And then they,
link |
you know, fight the Ruskies. But he's that guy. He just is gifted. He's like got a gift from Allah
link |
and he's the best. Yeah, a lot of comics give him props. It's always surprising to me. I didn't
link |
because it's surprising to me because he hasn't really made it like big. He did in the 90s. He
link |
was huge. He had his own TV show. He was the boy. Yeah. Yeah. That show was, that show was awesome.
link |
But I mean, like as big as I think he deserves to be. So I, well, that's art. The mainstream
link |
shit is always the worst. It's like McDonald's versus some hole in the wall. I know I'm shitting
link |
on McDonald's again, but it's good. And, you know, certain comics we could name are good, but
link |
the, the delicacy is going to be less talked about and less household namey than, than the
link |
mainstream hacky shit. Yeah, it's funny because he hasn't, I think he was on Joe Rogan's show once,
link |
maybe. Yeah. And he was with somebody else. Jeff Ross. Yeah. He might have been with Jeff
link |
Ross. Oh yeah. Cause they did that, like two mics thing, whatever. Yeah. But he's the quickest guy.
link |
There's no one funnier. Yeah. Yeah. Him and you, you're super quick. Your appearance on,
link |
recent appearance on Rogan's hilarious. Oh, thanks. Just so fast. You're on with Ari and
link |
Shangillis. Shangillis. Yeah. That was fun. We're going back in January.
link |
I don't know when this comes out. This has never come out. Neither will you. We're having fun.
link |
Yeah. All right. So what does it feel like to bomb in standup comedy, like to fail? Maybe the
link |
psychology of it first, like, just take me through it. Cause we're talking about being
link |
outnumbered in a fight, just being beat up. Very similar. By the way, this is like a no eye contact
link |
off. Yeah. Yeah. We're both uncomfortable with it. Yeah. It's great. It's kind of nice to be with
link |
my people. But yeah. Dina should have paper to look at her. I'm going, I got a good sweet spot
link |
right there. Nice. Yeah. It's a nightmare, but it's part of it. It's the validation too is the
link |
worst part. Cause whenever you do comedy and kill, you can be a great comic, but even David
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tell these brilliant guys, they feel like they're getting, you feel like you're getting away with
link |
something. I don't have a day job. I'm telling jokes for a little bit. I'm talking about my
link |
dick up here and they're fucking loving me and they call me a genius and all this. I'm talking
link |
about my sack. Yeah. You know, and, uh, and it's great. It makes people happy and it's funny, but
link |
uh, that bombing, when you bomb, you go, your first thought is like, yeah, you're right. At
link |
first you're like, fuck you got what? You don't like this shit. And then you just start going in.
link |
You're like, yeah, maybe it isn't that good. Maybe they're right. I do suck. I knew I sucked.
link |
I should become a mailman, you know, and, uh, it stinks and it feel, you feel alone and you feel
link |
like you wasted their time and then you're like, what was I thinking? I could be a comedian. What
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the fuck? Who am I? You know, Eddie Murphy. What am I doing here? So, uh, it's a lot of just spiraling
link |
out of horrible thoughts, but I also love that it hurts so bad. Bombing fucking hurts because
link |
now, now everybody doesn't do it. I think a lot more people could do comedy probably and figure
link |
it out, but the bombing is so brutal that it keeps, uh, one time I went to Minneapolis, I was
link |
like, this is a great city. I mean, the sun is shining. Why isn't this city like packed and they're
link |
like, cause the winters are so bad and we love it cause it keeps everybody out. And I feel like
link |
the same about comedy. The bombs are so brutal. I've had bombs where I'm in bed. I'm just staring
link |
at the ceiling like, what the fuck was that? Like you have PTSD. I bombed at an arena once, 20,000
link |
people. I did 30 minutes to silence. So it's not just like one joke fails. It's like they start
link |
piling on like it's irrecoverable. Yes. And one joke failing is very common. Like a lot of audience
link |
don't even notice like that bomb. Cause you get, you know, you got so many jokes in a row. You can
link |
sandwich a good one, then a bad one, then a good one. But when you bomb, it's almost like they chose,
link |
we don't like you. Nothing you say will redeem yourself. And, uh, it's hard to get out of.
link |
It's like being pulled down by your hair. You can't get back. I can't win this fight no matter
link |
what. Can you like get him back by acknowledging like the elf in the room that like,
link |
That helps, but they're still going to go. That was funny when he made fun of it, but
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he sucks. He still sucks. He still sucks. That's the worst part. You're going, no, this is good.
link |
You guys just don't like me. Just cause you don't like me. It doesn't mean I'm bad.
link |
Yeah. I like going to open mics a lot. Just, just listening because
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first of all, I think the audience in the open mic, at least the ones I've been to,
link |
is, um, most I guess other comedians or like, at least people who don't seem to want to laugh
link |
at anything. And so I just love it because it's human nature and perseverance that is best.
link |
But here's comedians, like clearly, uh, this is mostly in Austin. They have a dream.
link |
Like, why would you get up there? Right.
link |
Right. Maybe some weird, you know, New Year's resolution bullshit, but for the most part,
link |
it's people who want to be comedians. Like a lot of the open micers that people
link |
who have clearly have done this for quite a long time, like at least a year or two,
link |
maybe five years. And they're often not very funny. And, um,
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um, the just bombing in front of an audience of like 20, where they're just sitting there,
link |
like almost like mocking them with their eyes or maybe, and I don't know, and they still push
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through. They still, they still like, as if they're doing an arena and everybody's laughing.
link |
They still, they still got that energy trying almost like to an audience that doesn't exist.
link |
Like an audience of their dreams. Cause I guess that you have to do that to keep the energy of
link |
the act going. And it's just so beautiful to watch them try it. It's, uh, and also the,
link |
what happens, open mic, I don't know, five minutes, whatever they do, they, you know,
link |
walk off and that walk back, you know, off stage and like, you can't, what, who do they look at?
link |
Like, what do you look at? Do you make eye contact with people? Do you look at your phone?
link |
You look at your feet. You just zone out. You kind of kind of go white, you know,
link |
you just hear white noise and go out. It's, it's tough, but you got it. You need a little,
link |
a little delusion to be a comedian to get into it. It takes a little bit of delusion. Like,
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you think you can do this, you know, you got 10 years ahead of you of hell and you're up for this.
link |
And you know, most comics, we see a horrible crowd and we see our friend bomb and we go,
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yeah, he's bombing, but I'll get him. I'll get him. And then you don't get him. But that's,
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that's human nature too. It's like, they don't like him, but they're like me. And you need a
link |
little of that to keep going as a comedian. But you don't want too much delusion because then
link |
you're a psycho, but you need a little. Well, the psycho could be good for a comedy.
link |
That's true too. Love psychos. I mentioned you offline, um, that talked to Elon and we talked
link |
about doing standup that he's thinking maybe do a few minutes of standup. Say, if you need a coach,
link |
Elon, I got you. Um, well, maybe you should move to Austin to coach him full time.
link |
Hopefully they can fly me in. So what, what advice would you give to somebody who, um,
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who wants to try and do five minutes, like the early steps of, uh, trying to go to an
link |
open mic and say something funny? Well, that's the irony of comedy is, I don't know if it's irony,
link |
but it's like the beginning is the hardest part. Usually the beginning is the easy part.
link |
Hey, I'm playing this level of Mario. I'd start a jump over one Koopa Troopa, whatever.
link |
And then the end is like, Jesus Christ, I got 30 guys coming at me. Comedy's the opposite. The
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beginning is like, it's a gauntlet. It's just obstacles. And it's like you said, open mics.
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You, I watch these famous comedians on Netflix and you go, this would all bomb an open mic.
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They're killing in, you know, Radio City. This would bomb an open mic. That's the weird part.
link |
So it's almost, you have to go through hell just to get to the, the promised land. And, uh, I would
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say rehearse the shit out of it because you're going to get frazzled up there. Everybody thinks,
link |
oh, this is good material, but you also forget about the other part of delivering it, having
link |
confidence, being likable, having timing, having a cadence, figuring out who you are,
link |
figuring out what the audience thinks you are or how they perceive you. Cause you can go up there
link |
and say all this, but they go, why's the guy, he's clearly gay. Why is he actually not gay?
link |
You know, that's all that. Now they're not listening to the joke. So like, you got to know
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how you look. And, uh, it's just repetition, repetition and bombing is not failure. That's
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what you got to remember. I mean, look, if you, if you do a, a killer hour and then you take it
link |
to Netflix and bomb, you fucked up, but bombing is not failure. It's just data. It's going, oh,
link |
okay, I got to read, retool that. That didn't work. Something wrong there. They missed a word there.
link |
So you got to treat the, uh, the act almost like, uh, like, uh, like ingredients in a, in a, in a
link |
cooking and a dish, you know, like, oh, that, I put too many eggs in, take an egg out. You got
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to treat it like that. And look, when you pull a bad cake out of an oven, you go, I fucked up,
link |
but it doesn't hurt your feelings. But when you bomb and fuck up, it hurts your feelings.
link |
So you got to factor that into your feelings going to be hurt and just almost be a robot and
link |
just keep going towards that open mic. You know how scary an open mic is? Bombing sucks, but bombing
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in front of other comedians is way worse because they know what just happened and they could have
link |
saved you and they didn't. So it's way worse. And they're going to be your quote unquote friends
link |
for this journey. Yeah. No, these are evil people. Most twisted fucked up hurt people.
link |
Can you tell like in those early days, let's just talk about that, like the open mic level,
link |
that a joke is going to be good on paper. Like I'll give you my experience because, uh,
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maybe you can be my coach in this particular moment.
link |
Please. I feel like Larry Nasser. All right. That's fun, huh? Joking, everybody. I hope nobody
link |
takes this seriously. There's, I now have an amazing team of folks who help me with editing
link |
and they're now currently sweating. You gotta leave that one in. That was quick. Yeah, that's
link |
pretty good. I'll eat that one. That was good. All right. So, you know, going in front of an
link |
audience, just even to give a lecture terrifies me, which I've done, but open mic, I mean that to me,
link |
perhaps that's why I like going open mics and listening is because I just, it terrifies me so
link |
much that idea of going up there and bombing. I mean, it's scary and to do even like one minute
link |
to be honest is scary and five minutes. I'm also watched enough open mics to realize that five
link |
minutes is a long time. I mean, it depends on your comedy, but if you're doing fast stuff,
link |
five minutes is a really long time. Oh, it's eternity. I guess with a long story, two is a
link |
long time because if the story is not worth, you're building up to something. If the story is
link |
going to fail, you just spent all that time telling the story that completely went flat.
link |
Completely. Got nothing. I guess if you have a series of jokes, you can at least try to recover
link |
and like do the Mitch Heidberg thing where like, all right, I'll cross that off. Yeah, yeah.
link |
Yeah. Well, I'm able to, like I've tried to write a few things and I'm able to tell that it's really
link |
bad. Well, that's better than most. Most people's egos kick in and go, no, this is good. No,
link |
see, I'm able to introspect that. Like it seems funny. I mean, I guess the thing I'm looking for
link |
is original. Like there's easy stuff that you think is funny, but to me, originality is the
link |
thing you should be looking for because then that's what's actually becomes funny. Or rather,
link |
if it's original, even if it bombs, that feels like more a beautiful art creation that you did.
link |
Like at least you swung for it. Like you did something unique because even with open mic,
link |
your first five minutes, there's so many, just go to enough open mics, you'll hear like all the,
link |
there's like a list of jokes that you just go to. First of all, you can make fun of the fact that
link |
you're at an open mic, that you're like doing this the first time and so on. You can do a lot
link |
of stuff where you make fun of your appearance in some way and so on. But like, yeah, you could do that.
link |
You know, that takes actually, that's way harder than people realize to do it in an original way.
link |
Yes. To present who you are as a person, very quickly, enough to then put that person down in
link |
front of everybody else. So you have to reveal the audiences like that because they go, he knows
link |
what we're thinking. Yeah, exactly. But do it again in an original way. And so like when I'm
link |
trying to write stuff, not that I've tried long, it's like 30 minutes, but as enough to see like,
link |
oh, shit, to write something original is really difficult. It is. But do you got a bit? Anything?
link |
No. You didn't write any one line or anything? For this? No. Well, just in general,
link |
ever in your life, ever written a joke? Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. No, but I don't have anything in my
link |
mind. So the jokes that I've written have more, like for some reason, my mind goes to like dark
link |
places. And not actually dark in the Mark Norman dark because you go really dark to where it's
link |
like almost absurd. My natural inclination is to go to like a dark historical place like Hitler
link |
and Stalin and almost go to that place and then talk about something absurd there. So like don't
link |
go like all the way, I don't know, I don't want to give examples because it'll be clipped, but
link |
the Mark Norman style, look it up. He has a special on his YouTube. That kind. I want to almost
link |
explore the dark aspects of human nature more kind of connected to actual historical figures.
link |
That's the inclination. Like, I don't know, Nature's Metal, the Instagram channel that
link |
explores like the darkness of nature, like something there. See, that's good that you already know
link |
that you've kind of gotten to the core of your comedy already. And that's interesting. That's a
link |
step ahead. Yeah, I can hear. I mean, with most things that I do in life, I can like hear the
link |
music from a distance. Like in myself, like, okay, if you have anything, this is the direction it'll
link |
be without actually knowing exactly all the steps. And that's a nice motivation to be like, all right,
link |
well, if you do this for a long time, maybe you'll have a chance to get there. But you have to,
link |
that's where it's a feature to be super self critical, I think. But then that's why
link |
it's fucking terrifying to walk up to a stage, stand there and probably forget everything.
link |
Yeah, that's the other part nobody thinks about. Just goes right out of your head. You go fight or
link |
flight. It's ugly. My first years were horrific bombing, horrific stammering, horrific not
link |
remembering the punchline. Like, you got to even maybe you got a little setup going and they're
link |
kind of on board and you're like, ah, how's that camera? I can't remember how it goes. And you
link |
just hate yourself. It's a nightmare. But you've already kind of, maybe if you haven't done stand
link |
up or whatever, but you kind of know your voice. And that's, yeah, that's pretty advanced.
link |
So you're not trying to be somebody else. I guess, yeah, just for having done like podcast and
link |
lecture and so on. That helps. You've embarrassed, I've already done some of the work of the stand
link |
ups do, which is embarrass yourself in front of others for prolonged periods of time. Yes. Yeah.
link |
So I'd done that without actually developing the funny. Right, right, right. But maybe the funny
link |
just is not that difficult to develop. No, it's super difficult, of course. But I mean, maybe
link |
the essential work of a stand up comedian is just the embarrassment of like finding who you are.
link |
Yeah, that's a part of it for sure. You know, in the beginning, you're like,
link |
water bottle, what's funny about water bottle? I'm a funny guy. I can make this funny. But that's
link |
not it. You know, it's, it's your shit, your shit, like your dark stuff. For me, I tend to gravitate
link |
towards dark, but in a weird way where, you know, people will say like, Hey, don't objectify women.
link |
But then they go, Caitlyn Jenner is beautiful. And you're like, well, wait,
link |
I know something's off here. Why can you objectify her but not the supermodel? So what's going on
link |
there? And I like to play with that. So I have this joke where I say, Caitlyn Jenner. Oh,
link |
women go, Caitlyn Jenner is beautiful, beautiful woman. I go, well, you look like her and they go,
link |
fuck you. And you're like, there's a lot of truth there. But I like exploring that kind of,
link |
oh, you're trying to get one over on me or you're lying to yourself or what are we doing here?
link |
And I like, I like that kind of comedy. I don't see color. Well, I'm black. No, you're not.
link |
You know, that's fun because you're, you're lying.
link |
Yeah. Okay. So like big time comedians, such as yourself, don't like to think of yourself in
link |
this way. But yeah, this is like where you over philosophize comedy. But
link |
Yeah, definitely. It seems like comedians.
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Don't say important. Nothing worse than a comedian who thinks they're important.
link |
Yeah. So I was going, I was trying to find, as I was trying to say these words, I realized
link |
how cliche it is and how uninteresting it is. So I'm going to just, but there's something.
link |
I'm worried this whole thing is uninteresting. I'm like, who cares about comedy? There's like
link |
six comics on the planet. But nobody cares. Okay. I trust you in the, in the pilot seat.
link |
You know what you're doing. You got, you got listeners. They've tuned out long ago.
link |
They've tuned out long ago. Dan Carlin on here, huh? Is he around?
link |
Yeah. We're just going back and forth on Twitter just now. He's a huge fan. He was on here before
link |
he'll be back. I've been actually really trying to volunteer myself aggressively with Dan Carlin
link |
for like a Russian episode where I could speak Russian. I, there's, there's certain documents
link |
saying, I talked with Jaco about this too. Certain things. I mean, I just love the challenge of
link |
bringing Russian documents that I can read in Russian and it can translate and can try to capture
link |
the, the depth of the writing in, in the Russian language and communicate to the American audience.
link |
So much has lost in translation. Like there's so much pain and poetry in the Russian language.
link |
It's just connected to the culture. Every language, not every language, but many languages are
link |
uniquely able to capture the culture of the people. I mean, in some way they're the representation
link |
of the culture of the people. And so Russian is definitely that represents the full history
link |
and culture of the 20th century with all the atrocities, all the, all the broken promises,
link |
all those kinds of things. Norm says Russian literature is, it's the most tapped into human
link |
existence than anything else. Norm. McDonald. Yeah. Big, big Russian literature guy.
link |
Dostoevsky, all that shit. It's funny that there is a gap with comedians too. There's a culture
link |
of Russian comedy, like standup comedians that are told. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know these Russians.
link |
I mean, I don't know today. I mean, more from the 80s and 90s. And there was a.
link |
Yakov. That's all I know. That's not, so there's like, of course, that's, that's.
link |
I've never seen that offended. No, no, no, it's not offended. There's a different,
link |
there's like the kinesons and the, there's the edgy. Is that Russian? What do you mean?
link |
Wait, I thought you said there was Russian comics. Yeah, Russian. I mean, I'm comparing them.
link |
For style. I'm giving you, I'm giving you like a style of darkness. Like that's the kind of people
link |
that kind of challenge. They give again, this is to how important comedians are, is they give a
link |
voice to people where in the Soviet Union, you really can't like express your opposition to
link |
the government. And so comedians are exceptionally important there for just, just, I don't know,
link |
channeling the anger, even when sometimes it's not the actual opposition to the government,
link |
they're just channeling the anger, the frustration with the absurdity of life. Like,
link |
you know, when there's a shortage of food, shortage of jobs, the absurdity of the bureaucracy,
link |
like the top heavy government, just all of that can only sometimes be expressed with like dark,
link |
absurd humor. And that actually, why there's a culture of that kind of humor, you know,
link |
you gather on the table with vodka and all you can do is just talk shit and just
link |
be offensive, say horrible shit, ball bust. I mean, I make school shooting jokes and people
link |
go, how do you do that? I'm like, well, maybe that's how I deal with it. Yeah. You know,
link |
like how come I gotta, I gotta empathize the way you do. Maybe we're different.
link |
All right. So now let's skip the whole open mic thing and crafting jokes.
link |
Kerouac said, one day I will find the right words and they will be simple.
link |
When do you know the joke is done? It's perfect. You're somebody that does like
link |
really sharp, like fast jokes. Well, so like there's somebody, I don't know,
link |
I don't know who you see yourself in the same school as like your darker and faster than
link |
Hedberg, I think, in terms of like, just, I don't know, the turns you take are very...
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Thanks. I appreciate it. I think I got some Norm McDonald and maybe...
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Norm, that's right.
link |
You know, obviously Norm, but Chris Rock was huge for me. Chris, old like 90s, Chris Rock was like,
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I didn't know you could do jokes like that. I always loved George Carlin and Groucho Marx and
link |
Bill Murray. There's so many different types of comedy, but when I saw the bigger and blacker
link |
bring the pain, I was like, oh my God, this is like, it hit me. So that was big. And then
link |
Norm's just like the funniest guy on the planet. So him being the smartest guy in the room,
link |
but acting dumb was great. So yeah, Chris Rock has that way of cutting to the bullshit,
link |
which I mentioned earlier. I like that cutting through the bullshit kind of style of comedy,
link |
because you kind of go, oh, I'm not crazy. That's what I thought too. I was too scared to say,
link |
but I thought that and he's saying it in a room of people are laughing. Maybe I'm not an idiot.
link |
So that helped me.
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So it's observational, but not Jerry Sineff observational. It's like going to the darker
link |
thing within society.
link |
But I like him too, but seeing it, doing it about stuff like in your life, society.
link |
Yeah. Race, gender, government, politics, all that kind of stuff.
link |
Exactly. Exactly. Sex, human emotions, jealousy, whatever it is. That's the good stuff.
link |
How'd you feel when Norm passed away?
link |
That was a bummer because he was, you know, what, 61? And I just didn't see it
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coming. And I just, I've watched so many hours of his stuff and I've met him and he's like,
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he was like this comedic bar, like, hey, we got Norm. You know, there's so much
link |
shit comedy. Then you see Norm and you're like, this is next level. This is savant type shit.
link |
And then to lose him is like, ah, Norm had 20 more years at least of just content and content
link |
and thoughts and his point of view. And that's, we'll never get that. And that sucks.
link |
Yeah. There is something about artists like Jimi Hendrix dying too early. It's like, you wonder
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what was next. Yeah, what was next. But then part of it is like,
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you know, it all ends for all of us. And it's like walking away early is,
link |
it's kind of admirable. It's almost like I did a pretty good job. Yeah. I'm good with that.
link |
And especially the way he did, which is not telling anybody. I know,
link |
nine years, his best friends didn't even know. And in this world of like victim hood,
link |
and I need clicks and I need people to love me. He could have, he got, you know, canceled and
link |
yelled at and in trouble. And he could have pulled that cancer card and he never did. I mean,
link |
the integrity on this motherfucker. Did you get a chance to interact with him? Like what,
link |
how often did you meet him? I met him once at the comedy cellar and we chatted for five minutes.
link |
And then he went on and did the letterman set that he did. He was running the letterman set.
link |
And sweet guy, nice guy. I didn't know him that well, but I mean, he's just brilliant.
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And I also love a brilliant guy who does stupid stuff. That's a fun, fun little combo there.
link |
Like silly guys who are actually brilliant. Also, you know, like Louis CK is a brilliant
link |
comic and he'll do a joke about farting on a kid. And you're like, that's great that he still
link |
finds farts funny. And he's also this comedic genius guy. I like that.
link |
And doesn't really acknowledge the genius. Yeah. Yeah. I like smart people. They're silly.
link |
Yes. That's a good combo. Like you said, Elon is silly. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Yeah.
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Because we taught, we teach kids like, Hey, put that down, stop that, quit cutting up,
link |
quit horsing around. But maybe that's some kind of sign of brilliance there.
link |
Yeah. Being like childlike and silly is a kind of wisdom. I feel like those people are way wiser
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than the people that no offense to me wear a suit and take themselves away too seriously.
link |
No, but you got a spark in you. A little bit. You got a little, what's the word?
link |
Not elf. Imp. A little imp in you. Give that a go. You know what imp?
link |
Yeah, let's look at this. It's like a little. Is that a Tolkien character? Imp. Yeah,
link |
might be. An imp is the European mythological being similar to a fairy or a demon. He called
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me a fairy. Well, okay. Similar to a fairy or a demon. I feel like that's a big leap.
link |
Big leap. Yeah, that's not a great info bio there. Frequently described in folklore and
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superstition. The word may perhaps derive from the term imp, spelled with a Y.
link |
You used to denote a young grafted tree. It's a little mischievous. You got a twinkle.
link |
You're this serious buttoned up guy, but this is a twinkle. There's a twinkle.
link |
Wow. And the audience can see the twinkle. And that's why he resonate, I think.
link |
Oh, sorry. Deep analysis by Mark Norman. Psychological analysis. Okay. But then
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back to the crafting of the joke, you said Chris Rock and Norman Donnell, like what for you?
link |
How do you know when the joke is like done? Are there some jokes when you're like,
link |
are proud of like, wow, that's, that's well done. Yeah. Yeah. The joke is done. It's a tough question
link |
because there's so many different kinds of jokes. It's what we call a chunk, which is a big idea
link |
with a bunch of jokes in the middle of it and then a big crescendo at the end. Or there's a one liner
link |
or there's a tag of a joke that's also a joke. So the joke's coming different.
link |
Like I have a joke where I say, I met my girl on that Jewish app. What's that Jewish app called?
link |
A PayPal. Nice. That's what the rest you want from the crowd. But it's a fun turn because you
link |
say your thing and then I hit you with a misdirect. And that's what a joke is. If joke is basically
link |
me saying something that makes sense, but you didn't see it coming. Yeah. And that's a perfect
link |
example of that. So that joke took forever to figure out, by the way, you know, and you have to go
link |
to different services like PayPal. What's funniest? Exactly. And I figured PayPal is funny because it
link |
has the word pay in it. Yeah. You know, Venmo. It's also not really a good word. Venmo PayPal.
link |
It just hits better. Yeah. PayPal is funnier somehow. It's funnier somehow. And that's the
link |
beauty of comedy. There's a weird little magic into it. You can get technical all day and formulaic,
link |
but there's still that little bit of a fairy dust that you don't know why this is funnier.
link |
Or imp dust. Imp dust. Yes. For the why. Okay. So you know what joke is done when it kills and
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it is a roundness to a joke when you feel like this is buttoned up. This is done here. It's
link |
simplicity the right word there. Yeah. Is it like you're chopping stuff away or you're adding
link |
stuff? Like what does it feel like? Simplicity is always the best angle. I mean, you can get
link |
real high concept with a joke and still make it work, but the simpler, the better. I saw
link |
Dave Chappelle on stage once and Chris Rock and Demetri Martin were in the back watching
link |
in awe. And Dave Chappelle, I can't remember the joke, but he said something about sex or women.
link |
And Demetri Martin goes, eh, it's a little easy. And Chris Rock goes, that's why it's good. And I
link |
remember hearing that as a young comic like, I'm getting this like, you know, comedy lesson right
link |
here for these two Titans. And so that was fun. Simple is key. So the easy is okay. That's such
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a weird, I think I remember reading or hearing Eminem say something about maybe the song,
link |
one of the songs, he's like, I knew it was going to be good because it got like really repetitive
link |
and annoying very quickly. I mean, that's the sort of the music equivalent of it's too easy.
link |
Like if it's like super catchy as a musician, you might get very quickly bored of it. Or like as
link |
you're creating it now, it's too, it's too easy. It's like, there needs to be some more complexity
link |
to it. But I like complexity, but the best guys who are the ones who make complex shit look simple.
link |
Like you ever heard that, uh, Ben Franklin story where he's talking to his friend, his friend's
link |
like, I'm going to start a hat store. So he puts a sign out says hats for sale, $12. And Ben
link |
Franklin looks at it goes, uh, well, you don't need the $12 because you know, all they need to know
link |
is that you got hats for sale. He's like, all right. So he loses the $12 makes a new sign hats
link |
for sale. And he goes, you know, you don't really need for sale because it's a business. People
link |
can put that together. So he just goes, all right, it makes a new sign. It says hats. And then Ben
link |
Franklin's like, you know, you don't really need the word hat. You can just put a picture of a hat.
link |
And he made a new sign, just a picture of a hat and like help the business or something. This is
link |
like some old wives tale or whatever. But I think about that all the time when I'm writing, I thought
link |
this was going to like, there was no sign. It went like super like, that could work too.
link |
What like as a comedian, some, I'm a fan of yours. I enjoy, I really enjoy you in conversations.
link |
Like, because you're now getting nothing out of this. All right. I can't like emotion.
link |
You're tough not to read cold inside. I mean, just the quickness you have. Obviously,
link |
you're also a great standup comedian. What's your favorite medium to shine in? So you have a
link |
podcast yourself, an excellent podcast. Thanks. You're often a podcast guest. Yeah.
link |
Which is always fun to listen to how you're going to deal with the different people.
link |
You're great on Rogan. Oh, thanks. What, what do you enjoy most?
link |
Podcasts are great because you can, you can stretch out a little more. You can breathe a
link |
little, you know, with a standup set. I like to be like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. But
link |
podcasts are great because it's conversational. So you can be, it's almost like you're being
link |
funny with your friends. Whereas the stage is like a, this is a piece. This is a presentation.
link |
But I think the, the podcast is great, but you don't get the reaction unless the host is laughing.
link |
You can't hear the guy in his car in New Jersey driving to work on, ah, every now and
link |
I'll read a comment like, I spit out my coffee when you said this. And I'm like,
link |
but it's not immediate. You want the immediate. So standup will always be number one, but there's
link |
no better feeling than killing in a room of people who don't know who you are strangers.
link |
You're in the middle of nowhere. You left your wife at home. You left your kids. You left your
link |
house. You're in the middle of bumfuck, Dickville and murdering for these hillbilly, nobody,
link |
whatever it is. And they're slinging their beers and cheering you on and they carry out and you
link |
fuck some fat lady and you leave and you get back to your hotel and you go, holy shit. What was that?
link |
No one will ever know about it. Just lost in the ether. That's the best feeling. Yeah. Killing
link |
an obscurity is Bill Burwood say. Yeah. This is one of the things that sucks about giving lectures
link |
like at universities or giving lectures in general is when you look at the audience,
link |
you know, several hundred students, they all have a bored look on their face. Yeah, of course.
link |
Like even like my, my face now probably looks bored, but I'm actually excited to be talking to you.
link |
But there's something about just, there's something about a comedy club. Maybe this is the
link |
contingent of laughter, but like it gives people the freedom to just laugh, to like,
link |
to remove the facade of like, you don't have to, you don't have to pretend like you don't care.
link |
Like if you care, you can show it and have fun with it. Probably liquor is helpful too.
link |
It helps for sure. But there is a, especially, and that's why comedy I think is so popular
link |
right now because HR is up our ass. We're scared of old tweets that might come back to haunt us.
link |
What did I say on that interview? Even people at offices are like, I put something on Facebook
link |
in 1999. That was about fat tits that I liked. Should I get rid of that? Even people say like,
link |
there's no cancel, whatever. There is something in the air right now and that wasn't there before.
link |
Yeah. It's the video. I'm a Karen. I got caught at Trader Joe, whatever it is. This,
link |
people rat on each other now. Everybody's tattletailing because they want the clicks. It's
link |
a horrible society we've crafted. But stand up comedy gets you to come out and now people do
link |
it at stand up shows too, sadly, but it gets you to come out and let that inhibition down.
link |
Like, because we're all human. We've all had the fucked up thoughts like, man, that guy's fat as
link |
shit. It doesn't mean you hate the guy. It doesn't mean you hate fat people. It doesn't mean you're fat
link |
shaming, but you can't say that at the office. You can't go, Bob, you're fat as shit. You'll get
link |
fired for body shaming. But at the club, you go, that guy's fat as shit. The crowd goes, he is
link |
fat as shit. And it's this weird cathartic thing because all we do is tamp shit down.
link |
It's kind of like you ever meet a girl who's like all prim and proper in the bedroom. She's like,
link |
put a lamp up my ass, you know, whatever it is. It's because we got to get it out. We're all
link |
repressed in some way. So I guess what you're saying is comedy is important.
link |
Yes. Callback. Go play it, sir. What do you think about Austin? What do you think about the comedy
link |
scene, Austin? We'll talk about LA, New York. What do you think about what Joe's trying to create
link |
there? So I should say that the reason I moved to Austin, I have this dream of, it wouldn't be
link |
funny if I said this dream of becoming a comedian. An audience at least. Yeah, that's true. You know,
link |
I would say you can hear the music in the distance. I have this dream around robotics and
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artificial intelligence, whether it's a company, whether it's something else that I was just pulling
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me to do. I actually wanted to move to San Francisco and then all my friends in San Francisco said,
link |
no, it's the wrong place. At this time, the cynicism there is just not conducive to taking
link |
big leaps into the unknown, excited about the future kind of thing. And Austin was that,
link |
for me in particular with Elon Musk, but also just the energy that everybody had,
link |
including Joe, the excitement about the future. I don't care if Austin burns to the ground and
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it actually is a complete failure. Being excited about the future seems to be like optimism about
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the future. It seems to be the thing that actually makes that future happen, makes a great future
link |
happen. So it's always cool for me to see Joe super excited about creating a culture in Austin,
link |
making it a comedy hub. I don't want to overstate it, but I think he really believes it'll be a
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very big place for comedy in the United States in general in the world. And so just even believing
link |
that, that's powerful. You start to make it happen. That energy is there. Anyway, so that's
link |
for me from just an outsider watching the fun of it. I should also mention for less of an outsider,
link |
more insider in the martial arts world, partially probably because of Joe, I'm not sure, like John
link |
Donahar, Gordon Ryan, the B team, all those folks, that might be gibberish to you, but those are
link |
like some of the greatest grapplers and martial artists of all time. So it's also becoming this
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hub of martial arts. So the whole thing is just beautiful. Anyway, what are your thoughts about
link |
that scene? Well, there's a lot here, a lot of things to mention. One, I think Joe did do that
link |
to a degree. Like all these people with Segura lives there now. A lot of comics live there.
link |
He's opening clubs. Other clubs are opening. I think it's happening. That's the other thing is
link |
people go, everybody's moving to Austin. Austin's the new hub. And then they look at their watch
link |
and they go, five minutes went by, nothing changed. It's going to take years, but everybody wants it
link |
now, now, now. Well, Austin, there's no industry there. There's no Netflix, whatever. And you're
link |
like, yeah, I know, but it needs a minute. You can't just do this overnight. So people forget
link |
that. So it could happen huge. Just give it some time. I mean, he's opening a club. I went and
link |
saw it. It's incredible. Like it's so perfect for comedy. It's every detail. It's incredible. But
link |
so it could happen still. I do think there's a little biting off more than they can chew with
link |
Austin because it's not that big. It's spread out. I mean, yeah, it's not big. And the infrastructure
link |
is not quite there to support it. But it has a lot of, you know, comparing from the tech side,
link |
it has a lot of land to expand into. So it might become this. That helps.
link |
Like you're basically establishing, it's kind of like New York. You're establishing these whole
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neighborhoods. And you have the freedom to do that because there's a lot of space on all sides.
link |
Yes. Okay. So that helps. So again, maybe some time. I do agree with this, that new hope that's
link |
kind of built into human beings of like, let's go to America. Let's go to the utopia. We even have
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it with space. Let's go to Mars. We got to see what's over there. And it's just red, dusty bullshit.
link |
But you still got to go. So I'm with you on that about this new hope, this new land.
link |
And I think that is beautiful. And I think there's a lot of haters. I think there's a lot of
link |
naysayers who hate change, who hate anything new. And then I think you got to go, Hey,
link |
that hurts. That sucks. But blow me dickless. I'm trying something. You're a loser. Stop hating on
link |
me. I mean, how many people hate Elon Musk, you know? Yeah, it's hilarious. I mean, there's some
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of the criticism on Austin would be, it's like a fad. Like a lot of people are really people are
link |
excited about Austin. And somehow that's like, it's like when Green Day became famous, you no
link |
longer want to be a fan of Green Day. But to me, like this. Austin was already a cool town. Like
link |
every comic five years ago was like, Oh, I got Austin this weekend. I can't wait. So it already
link |
had a buzz. But some people think maybe the buzz was the cool part. The fact that it was like this
link |
off the beaten path city. And now I get to visit it and then leave. But I think it could still be
link |
this comedy tech booming place. It just will take some time and people want it right now. Well,
link |
on the tech side, it's, it's already there. It's getting there very fast. So I mean, Elon's really
link |
pushing that with the factory. It's just a huge number of people are moving there with jobs.
link |
Like you're already starting. And then the opportunities to launch new companies is just
link |
incredible. I guess it's not right now. It's like within months, within a year, that kind of thing.
link |
But like, it's an opportunity to just start to build shit in a new place. And it's cool. It's
link |
kind of like, you know, go to Mars, like we get to start over. Yeah. And I like the hope aspect.
link |
I think that's huge for people. And I'm all for it. I hope it works out. I don't know if it will.
link |
But I don't know anything about economies and city scans, planning and all that shit. So it
link |
might be too early to say, but I hope it works. He's still talking about Austin or Mars?
link |
Austin. Mars is, there's nothing there. There's no vagina there. There's no food there. There's no
link |
water there. I don't know. It seems, I get space travel. I think it's important, but I don't know
link |
Mars is really going to move the needle. So what are your thoughts about Elon Musk and SpaceX and
link |
launching rockets into space? I think it's all good because you could say, Hey, we could just
link |
feed everybody. And I was like, Yeah, that's true. By the way, these guys give a ton of money to like
link |
philanthropy shit that nobody cares about. By the way, you know, it's weird. Like he could feed Nigeria
link |
and with pocket change of his and you're like, Well, maybe he has, you know, like I heard Bill
link |
Gates gave back so much money to save 6 million lives. But that's a reverse Holocaust, by the way.
link |
That's pretty good. What have you done? You're a barista. So, you know, I just think I think
link |
space travel is good because you learn about the place you're living in from going to space.
link |
It kind of helps you learn about this more. You could say, What's the point of going to
link |
this other there? But it does help, I think. Yeah, doing difficult things in the engineering space
link |
seems to be a way to develop like as a, as almost like an accident, as a side effect of doing a
link |
really difficult thing in a team of brilliant people, you develop things like the internet.
link |
And you could argue that the internet maybe is not so good for society. No, I'm just kidding.
link |
That's good and bad. Yeah. But it's like a pull up. You're trying to get your bicep going. But
link |
hey, before you know, you got decent forearms, but you weren't working on the forearms. You
link |
wanted to buy, but you got the four. And I think that's kind of what space travel is.
link |
I like how this like pivoted into a workout routine advice.
link |
I'm trying to get an analogy going here. All right. They work pretty well.
link |
I'll take it. All right. What are your thoughts about, since I'm a robotics person,
link |
I'd be curious to see like what do you think about the space at all about first of all,
link |
autonomous vehicles with Tesla autopilot and Waymo self driving car. I'm not sure if you're
link |
familiar with all the autonomous vehicles and so on. So those are robots on wheels.
link |
And then there's also legged robots. So next time you're in Austin,
link |
you get to meet some of the legged robots I've been working on. And I find those kind of
link |
a fascinating way to explore the nature of intelligence in our computers, but also explore
link |
our own intelligence and also explore our own like what makes us connect to other
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living beings, whether it's dogs, cats, or other humans. Like there's some magic there
link |
that's beyond just intelligence. And like when I have the robot dog, there's some aspect to it
link |
that, I don't know, brings me joy in a way that a dog does, in a way that a good friend does.
link |
Oh, that's interesting. And I'm not sure if that's some kind of anthropomorphism,
link |
like where I'm projecting my hopes for this, what this thing is, but it's kind of built in.
link |
I mean, it's just a source of joy. Maybe it's connected to the fact that there's just like
link |
a loneliness within all of us, within me. And it's just nice to have other things in your life
link |
that move, that recognize you, that kind of thing. I mean, I suppose it's nice to even just have a
link |
plant. Yeah, it is plant goes a long way. You see a guy with plants in his apartment, it changes
link |
the apartment because they're alive. You got a water room, you got to put sun on them. So yeah,
link |
I think there's something there. And I think you can see people's reactions when you show them
link |
them advanced technology, like these dog robots, or these robots that dance and shit, people are
link |
like, what the fuck, like it hits home in some way, whether it's fear or you want to fuck them
link |
clearly, whatever it is, but it does connect with you in some way. So I'm with you. And I think
link |
this is why I don't think robots will take over. You always hear that robot, they're making them
link |
too advanced, they're going to wipe us out, blah, blah, blah. If robots get at human emotions,
link |
that is scary because they could, they could get mad at us and kill us and they're stronger,
link |
they don't need sleep, they don't need food, they don't need water, they don't get jealous,
link |
you know, but if they have emotions, then I think we can dominate them because who's had
link |
emotions, who knows emotions better than us. We've got thousands of years of evolutionary
link |
emotional bullshit. We can go, hey, robot, I heard you, your wife fucked that black and
link |
decker, huh? They're going to crumble. We can bully them. Emotionally manipulate robots. Yes,
link |
that's when we'll win. Right now, they could kill us, they could just, we'd all die, then we shoot
link |
them back, that's no good. But if they do get emotions, then we can go, hey, you look like
link |
hell, what is that, a rusty bolt? Hey, you're dropping some oil there, you know, you loser.
link |
I think we can win if they do get emotions. This goes back to your father being able to
link |
undercut you with a single word. You're right. Yeah, so we're the creators of the robots and
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then the robots will just, you would say the exact thing where the robot would be like,
link |
that son of a bitch. And then it goes back to his hole and just sits there miserable.
link |
Right, yeah, hardware looks more like software to me. You can't get it up. Yada, yada, yada.
link |
Yeah. But I'm not worried about robots and I think self, what do you think about the
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self driving cars? Is that just wiping out the horse and buggy? Isn't that just progression
link |
of technology? Yeah, so I don't know if you've driven it in a Tesla, for example. I have,
link |
I wrote in the, uh, the past drive it. Yeah, there's several stages in that. I think it's the
link |
problem is way harder than people realize. And for quite a while, it'll just make driving more
link |
pleasant. It'll make it less stressful. It'll take over some of the boring bits for you and make
link |
it easier. Like there's something that happens actually when the car is driving for you in
link |
the following way. Like it's, it's staying in the lane. It's keeping distance to the car in front
link |
of you. Maybe it's changing lanes. It allows you to relax a little bit. Like you become,
link |
you still have to be alert, but you become like a passenger and you get to like take in the world.
link |
I mean, somehow that's more relaxing without making you necessarily like bored more. It's
link |
energizing more. So I just think it makes the driving experience more pleasant. But when you
link |
actually fully automate cars, when you can just completely tune out and start reading a book
link |
or go to sleep, that might change, uh, society like in ways we don't even understand because you'll
link |
have, I mean, the, the, you'll probably change the nature of roads because the cars, because now
link |
you can be super productive. And so no longer quite matters to you as much how long it takes to get
link |
from point A to point B because you're not wasting that time. You just continue working. Yeah. It's
link |
like public transit that comes to you. Exactly. And so they, there will be maybe less roads and
link |
bigger roads and it will just change the nature of how we get from point A to point B. I think
link |
you're right. But then couple that also with the fact that we seem to be more and more comfortable
link |
existing in the digital world. Yeah. So like maybe we won't want to go outside more and more.
link |
We'll just interact with each other virtually. And I don't mean Zoom meetings. I mean, just
link |
in other ways that's, uh, that's, that's more fulfilling than a Zoom meeting. But then maybe
link |
not because like there's something deeply uncompelling about Zoom meetings. Like podcasts
link |
that are remote, unless they're super information dense, at least to me as a podcast fan, kind of
link |
suck. They suck. There's no connected. It goes back to the dog thing with the Zoom. There's no
link |
connection. Yeah. And we're not, you know, I don't understand why they're, we're not even making eye
link |
contact. I know, but it's just something there. It's in the room. There's pheromones and that's
link |
like out of our understanding probably. It's just some kind of weird biological, you know,
link |
you ever have Cheerios in a bowl? The Cheerios tend to, they tend to go together. You see a
link |
cluster of Cheerios. They're never really hanging out on the other side. And that's kind of how
link |
people are in real life. I wonder what the physics of that is. So they, they, they come
link |
together and they stick. There's somebody with molecules. Yeah. I don't know, I can't remember
link |
what it was, but it was fascinating. And I think that's how people are. And I think you try to
link |
write a TV show or, or craft a movie with your team, Zoom, nothing there. It's like phone sex
link |
versus penetration. One day you'll learn that. I, I know nothing of either the, I look forward
link |
because I think there's a phone sex Netflix documentary that this is show or something
link |
like that, that is really popular. I want to go watch. At least I can learn about that.
link |
Okay. I could send you some links on the internet. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, self driving car,
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I think it's just inevitable it's coming and these truckers are going to have to figure something out.
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Yeah. I mean, that's, that's an under understood industry actually, because there's not,
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there's a lot of trucking jobs and people don't want to, well, people don't want to actually
link |
take them anymore because it's such a difficult job. So it won't have, or a lot of people believe
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it won't have as big of a negative impact as folks anticipate. There'll be other automation.
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I think they'll have a huge impact. Yeah. For sure. I mean, you already see it in McDonald's,
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you go to the beep, beep, beep. Why do you want to get yelled at by the heavy set woman of color,
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you know, for making a bad order when you can just, you know, hit the screen.
link |
But those interactions I think are human. I mean, that's part of life. So it is scary taking away
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everything. How long till we're not fucking? That's common too. Yeah. Then there's going to have two,
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two types of people. Are you a fuck in real life? Are you a digital fuck person? I'm a digital. I
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like real fucking. Sorry, we can't date. That's common. Well, there's also the, the reproduction
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side of sex, which is like with genetic engineering, you'll be able to specify a little bit of
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details. I talked to Jamie Mertzo about that, like where you can specify, like,
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you know, it'll start with like, I want my child not to have like a high likelihood of diabetes
link |
or something like that. And then you get to specify like intelligence is get to specify those kinds
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of parameters until you're like basically trying to create a perfect human and you lose some of
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the magic of the flaws that make us who we are. Yes. And, you know, I'm pretty sure in the full
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lineup of humans, like, so let me give you some information. I'm sure you researched this thoroughly,
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but a male of the human species of the Homo sapien produces 500 billion sperm cells in a lifetime. So
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that's all some more than others. That's all uniquely genetically unique humans that you could
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produce. So even across those 500 billion, you can select. And so I mean, like abort some or no,
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you can choose which of them you want. I mean, just imagine all the genetic possibilities that
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are there, like all the possible like you won the race. Yes. Shocking. This is all the 500
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billion. You have to imagine what the competition was. Oh, just tarts all day long handicap.
link |
Well, so it's not actually the fastest sperm or like it's I think a lot of his timing and luck.
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That's what it seems like. There's actual papers on this and I've actually been reading them. I
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hope so. So it's not just like the fastest sperm to the egg. Okay. There's a timing thing. So you
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were just lucky. All right. I believe that. So it's interesting to think about like once you're
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able to specify some parameters of what your child is like, how that changes the nature of
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even just like the intimacy of two humans getting together and making creating together a child.
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Yeah. I mean, it changes it. It's almost like, I don't know, it becomes like a factory
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line of some kind. If you don't meet naturally. Yeah. If you don't meet naturally and then you
link |
don't and you get to optimize your child, then it's yeah, then it's something like you have to
link |
consider utilitarian type of things like what's good for society and it'll probably be regulation
link |
about what kind of children you can have and not like your child cannot have an IQ below this or
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above this or something like that. Your child cannot. We already kind of do that with VIP clubs
link |
like you're kind of ugly or women go, Hey, he's not tall enough. We kind of do it a little.
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Yeah. Especially sexually. Yeah, we do. Can't get on the roller coaster if you're this short,
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whatever it is, you know, we do it in some capacity. But here, this would be like
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fully transparent and to a degree that it's hard to imagine. Like the way we currently do it,
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you can at least get around it. Yes. You can at least like trick your way onto the roller coaster
link |
even if you're short. Right. Or the fat guy can get rich so he can get laid. You know, there's other
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ways. At the risk of asking the totally wrong person this question, what advice would you
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give to young people today in high school and college about how to have a successful career
link |
or career that they're proud of or maybe have a life that they're proud of?
link |
Well, first of all, you got to be, you got to want a life you're proud of. Not everybody has
link |
any integrity. A lot of people just want short money. I want to feel good, look good right now.
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I want to do Molly. Boom. I'll feel good, you know, but you should space it out. It's almost
link |
like saving money so you can use it later. Nobody wants to save money. What do they say? Like 11%
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of America actually has money saved? A thousand dollars or some shit? It's wildly low. Everybody
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wants it now, now. What do you call it? Immediate gratification. I think the key to happiness and
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satisfaction is working for something. Even if it's, it's like a baby. If you could have a baby
link |
in five minutes, if a woman, you got to, you jizzed in her and she had a baby, oh five minutes,
link |
boom, newborn, healthy. I think you'd be more likely to throw it away if you could make it that
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quick. It's the fact that you spent nine months backbreaking the labor, the lactating, the ripped
link |
placenta and the hymen or whatever the fuck. That's what makes you love it. And I think it's the same
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with comedy or, or making money or whatever. Look at these kids who, who like child stars,
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they all become heroin addicts at like 22 because they've just, their sensors are burned out,
link |
their pleasure sensors. You didn't have to earn it. I think earning it is a big part of life
link |
and always try to do better, try to do more, try to learn new things. Hey, I'm bored, life sucks,
link |
life, play the piano then you chuch, but you, you won't do it because it takes effort and, and
link |
failure and all that, but that's the good part. And I know it's hard to see. So I think that's,
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that's a good, good key to life is work hard at something you care about and then love the result.
link |
The, the hard work, the journey is actually way more important than just getting something.
link |
Everybody wants to go on Amazon. I got a package. Then you feel good for 10 seconds and let's go
link |
on Amazon again. And then you just, it's just a dumb cycle of you being disgusting and gluttonous.
link |
So work for it. Everybody wants to take steroids and just, I'm buff.
link |
What'd you point at me? Well, I'm just saying Russian or what?
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Well, I saw the, the Icarus, but no, I'm not saying you're on Roy's. I'm just, you'd be way bigger,
link |
but I'm just saying, you know, work for something. And then I would also, young people eat shit early,
link |
eat shit early. I know a guy who kind of got canceled or whatever, and he had an out early,
link |
but he tried to get by and he tried to ride it and it all came crumbling down. But if he had
link |
eaten it early, like, yeah, I fucked up. I did that, whatever it was, he would have, he would
link |
have just kind of been, been shit on for a month and then it would have gone away. But now it's
link |
his whole identity and that sucks. So eat shit early. And I know it's hard to see what I mean
link |
early. I'm in the present, but look ahead, look back. This time will pass. I mean, look at high
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school. High school was the biggest thing in our lives. Oh my God, this exam. Susie Q hates me.
link |
The football player beat me up. I'll never recover. Now you don't even think about high school. It's
link |
just a blip in your dumb life, you know? And that's what this is now. This will just be a blip.
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So remember that and work towards something and work hard and care about the result. If the result
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isn't good, try it again. And failure is not always bad. Failure, we look at failure as this
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end all be all. My life's over. I failed, but failure is really just learning. So that's something.
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So in summary, eat shit early and eat shit often. Yes. All right. Mark Norman. Eat ass.
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That's escalated quickly. All right. I have a list of random questions for you. What activities
link |
make you lose track of time? Oh, have that go into that zone. You have this happiness
link |
contentment about you that you just truly enjoy. Yeah. I think good conversation. I'll sit at
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the comedy cellar with friends, maybe a little whiskey's flowing. And when you're really just
link |
vibing and inhibiting. You can do it. What is it? Inhibited. Uninhibited. When you're just
link |
vibing and you're uninhibited and you're saying crazy shit and you're laughing and you're not
link |
worried, am I seeming cool right now? Am I seeming likable? When you're just you 100% and it's all
link |
coming out of you and then they're saying stuff and you go back and forth and you feel that excitement.
link |
Oh, they're talking, but I want to say my thing. And you know, you get all keyed up. I love that.
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And I look at my watch and I'm like, fuck, it's three in the morning. We've been talking for five
link |
hours. So I love that. That makes the time fly by. Also, I bought a, speaking of self driving cars,
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I bought a 1973 BMW car and it's classic and it's stick shift and it's grizzly and gritty and
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rusty and it's a bucket of bolts, but I love driving it. Bucket of bolts. Yeah. You're in
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town ways, you're poets. Have you taken like a long trip anywhere, like road trip in your life
link |
or with this BMW? Not with it. It's pretty new, but I will. It's a new 1997. Yeah. It's new to me.
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And it just, it goes in the face of everything we're doing now. Everything is digital. Everything
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is automated. Everything is hands off. Everything is delivered and this is the most hands on thing
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in the world. And I am dialed in, man. I got the tachometer. I keep an eye on that. Oh, I made,
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I put the wrong gear and shit. Oh, it's about to stall. Put some gas, put some clutch and it's all
link |
just brainpower and staying in focus and all that. And it's the opposite of tweeting and texting
link |
and watching porn or whatever. So I almost needed that in my life. So I bought this car just to have
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this little exercise. I hope you don't mind that I'm just trying out random questions I wrote on
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you that are completely, they're like completely insane. I'm a guinea pig, jizz in my face.
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Break it on, baby. This would be edited down to five minutes. If everyone on earth disappeared
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and it was just you left, what would your days look like? What would you do? That's tough because
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I'm already an introvert and I try to avoid people mostly. Like I won on one, but crowds and all that
link |
is tough. So basically unchanged. Yeah. That's what I was going to say. But then that's the irony is
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I would be so sad to not talk to anybody. So it's this weird, bitter sweet thing. But I don't know
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what I would do, man. I guess it's kind of like when you're hungover, you just go into the primal
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survival mode. I got to get food. I need water. I'm horny. Jerk off. You just go, you're not like
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playing the piano or painting or at the gym. So I think I would just go in urges, man. Primal urges.
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Find food. Store food. Am I safe? Make weapons. Build a shelter that I can't get attacked in.
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I would go all survival mode. And then once I maybe realize if I was safe or not, there's no wild
link |
roaming dogs. I would start exploring and maybe somehow get a vehicle and I would try to expand
link |
and that would be it. And I maybe had journal. Exploring what to try to find new experiences.
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New life. If there's other, maybe there is another guy out there. Oh, so always there's
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the possibility. Yeah. Hope. And then maybe there's a better place I could live. Let's find that and
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then moving on. Maybe there's more food over here. So yeah, the hope would drive me. But it would be
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bleak and sad and horrible also. So what you're saying is you really want other people to be there
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so you can hide from them. Yes. Well said. All right. What's the item on your bucket list that
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you haven't done yet? Think about something you'd be very upset if you died and you haven't done.
link |
Well, I'm terrified of having kids just because I'm a child myself and I'm selfish and lazy in a
link |
way. So kids are like, this is your whole life now. This is it. You got to not let this thing die.
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You got to love it. You got to raise it. So kids scare the shit out of me, but I also feel like
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if I don't have them, I'll regret it. Well, you've seen so many people like you who are fundamentally
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changed by kids. It's a source of happiness even though you didn't anticipate it. Yeah.
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So you penciled it into your bucket list. Yes. It might be on there. Okay. You want kids?
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Yeah. Well, I want kids. I want to get married. I want to have kids. I don't like choice.
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So in the following way, I appreciate the value of scarcity and the power of scarcity.
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I don't like the modern dating culture. It's not some religious thing, whatever. I just like
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one girl for a long time or at least swinging for that always, like swinging for the fences.
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Well, you could be swinging right now. There's a different use of the word swinging. Sure,
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sure. But I'm saying you could be, you look great, you're handsome, muscular. Thank you.
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You get the job done. So I feel like you wouldn't leave without an orgasm on her.
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Yeah. But I just like to, you know, about furries. I like to dress up as animals and
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I just have trouble finding others who like the same. They're out there. I could show you some
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chat rooms. You're also my coach for the internet. Okay. What are you most afraid of?
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I guess on Unlived Life. I'm always a big fan growing up of like wild guys, you know,
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like these Teddy Roosevelt's who would go out and hunt lions and like bar fighting guys. I was
link |
obsessed with Hunter S. Thompson types. And look, this is what I love about guys like,
link |
who's a good example, like Hemingway. Hemingway was the manliest guy. He had the rifle and the
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elephant gun and the whiskey and the riding and the women and the fistfights. But people forget
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at the other side of that coin is I'm sure he was in a lot of hotel rooms weeping. I'm sure he was
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lonely as fuck. I'm sure he had some wicked hangovers. I mean, he killed himself for Christ's
link |
sake. So obviously he was dealing with something. So the key to me is having this adventurous life,
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living to the fullest, doing crazy shit, scaring yourself, but also not killing yourself. Like
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also not hating because I used to party a lot hard. I used to bang a lot of gals and the flip
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side is like, this girl hates you now or you got herpes or you're hungover or your mom is like,
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where are you? You never call me anymore. You're like, oh, my mom. Let ties go with my mom. I
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got to connect. So there's a horrible side to the party animal. The Keith Richards, we don't see,
link |
is not pretty. I mean, he's already weird looking, but he's partying, he's smoking, he's living,
link |
but there's another side of that coin. And I think the key to life is living that fucking crazy,
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awesome, badass life and also having some meaning and a little bit of what's the word,
link |
not just not killing yourself, not going sad, not being depressed. There's a medium there,
link |
a sweet spot. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. So taking big leaps and
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having way, grabbing life by the balls, but at the same time not crushing the balls that metaphor
link |
work at all. Perfect. Look, evil can evil. We all know him. What a badass, fearless. Oh,
link |
man, what a cool dude. He's got balls of steel, but he's also lived like the back half of his
link |
life in a fucking Marka Lounger where his legs were made of steel and he couldn't see straight
link |
and his dick didn't work. So you know what I mean? You got to have a balance, but you still want
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to balance. I'm willing to take a little bit of shit for a little bit of fun, but you don't want
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to go too hard. You got to still risk it. I mean, Hunter S. Thompson, it didn't end well, but
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it's quite a ride. Quite a ride. What small act of kindness were you once shown that you will never
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forget? Wow, that's a great question. I just wrote these for the guinea pig. You're the guinea
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pig. That's great. That's a keeper. Okay, that's a keeper. This is where like workshopping questions
link |
take. All right, I'll take it. Now you're open biking. This is your version. Let's see. There's
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a couple of ladies in high school who were kind enough to hand job me. That was nice,
link |
which I really appreciate. I don't think women know how much that means to us. You know, women
link |
are like, I'm not a piece of meat or whatever. And you're like, I know, but if you just gave me a
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hand job, it would make my world. It's like telling a kid he's smart or loved. See, most people
link |
mentioned like a math teacher middle school that would inspire them to get into science. Give a
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shout out to the... Well, that's part of it. That's not the nicest, but I'm just saying that goes a
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long way. All right. Let's see. Kindness. That's a great question. I want to give you a good answer.
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I got lost when I was like six. I was walking around my dad and I zoned out and went away.
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And next thing you know, I don't know where I am. I'm in a neighborhood. This old guy
link |
finds me crying on a lawn somewhere and he goes, uh, come inside and he tried to call my parents
link |
and nothing came of it. Eventually they found me after like nine hours. Cops were there. The FBI
link |
is out there. Fucking helicopters. And I guess, you know, that's nice. This old guy took me in
link |
for a couple hours and just sat me down and kept me safe. That's something. Yeah. Oh, how about
link |
Enus? My transvestite nanny. Very kind. He, uh, did you hear about this? No. Okay. We had this
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transvestite nanny. He was like a drag queen, but it was in the 90s. It was weird. It was new.
link |
And, uh, my bike got stolen and he, you know, my parents like, Hey, what are you going to do?
link |
They're poor kids, you know? And he was like, fuck it. Let's, we're going to go get that bike.
link |
And I was like, this guy's in a wig and high heels, big black guy. And I'm like, uh, what are you
link |
going to do? You know, it's gone. And he's like, no, we're going to go get it. So we got in the van
link |
and drove around my neighborhood, saw the kids fuck with the bike, you know, five street tuffs.
link |
And, uh, he goes, all right, you want to come out or should I just do this? And I was like,
link |
you do it. I'm terrified. What are you crazy? And he got out of the van in full, you know,
link |
heels and wig. And he went up to these guys and they went off. Oh my God, look at this fucking guy,
link |
homo, fagging, all this shit. You know, it's the 90s. And he just stared at them long enough to
link |
where they were kind of like, all right, well, I guess we're going to fight you now. And he goes,
link |
that's not your bike. And they go, what are you going to do about it? And he puts his hand on
link |
the middle of the bike and they didn't do anything. And he just picked it up and said, that's what I
link |
thought. Put the bike over shoulder, slid the van door open, threw the bike in and we drove off.
link |
Somebody stuck up for you. Yeah. And you know, I mean, he could have got, I mean,
link |
they had tools. They could have fucking tuned him up two seconds. That actually like takes courage.
link |
Oh yeah. Real courage. And then that, the reason you do and act like that is that
link |
makes a kid like you feel like there's somebody on your side. That's powerful. Someone on your side
link |
is big. Is big. That goes a long way. Especially when they have the risk of getting their ass kicked
link |
or their job taken away or whatever it is. Now we're going to get philosophical, maybe a little
link |
bit emotional. Would you rather lose all your old memories or never be able to make new ones?
link |
It's a tough one, but I'd go easy answer, make new ones. But don't you think all the shitty
link |
things that happen to you? Oh, so my hard drive is wiped clean. It's not, is it memories or is it
link |
how every memory affected me too? I mean, this is a very... How do they go hand in hand? I think
link |
the reality about memories is you replay them often. You go back to them, even when you're not
link |
aware of it. You really go back often like that. And they change. You change them too. Yeah, you
link |
change them to suit your understanding of the world. Yes. And so the dark view you have,
link |
both the hope and the cynicism you have about the world is so deeply grounded in the memories
link |
that you're basically, I would say, if you erase all memories, I think you're really starting over
link |
with maybe the wisdom of how the world works, but not so much your personality's gone. You would
link |
really... It'd be interesting how your comedy would change. Maybe you would have a good sense
link |
of timing. You would have a good sense of the writing process, maybe, but like...
link |
Now you're making some good points, but let me ask you this. Let's say I go to Lake Cuomo with
link |
my girlfriend. Now, I keep my old memories. Let's say I go to the Tuscany with the lady.
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I just won't remember that. Yeah, but you get to experience it in the moment.
link |
Okay. You get to enjoy it. Can I look at a photo of it?
link |
Yes. But what the hell is this? Yeah, exactly. Oh, fascinating. It's exact. The rules are pretty
link |
simple. I think everyone knows how the rules go. Yeah, so what... Well, I was going to say start
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new ones, but then I realized I wouldn't be who I was without them. That's what you're saying.
link |
So I guess I'd keep them because I am 38, so I've gotten a good chunk out of life.
link |
Yeah. And let's be honest, how many years do you have left? I know, right? I got eights.
link |
Is it better to have loved... Okay, this question is ridiculous. Is it better to have loved than
link |
lost or to have never loved at all? It sounds cliche, but there's a question.
link |
Definitely better to loss. So you enjoy the ups and downs? Yeah, that's life.
link |
We're sun and rain, baby. I kind of like both the whole thing. The loss,
link |
every time you lose something, it really makes you distinctly realize how much you valued it.
link |
Yes. When I'm sad, when I'm feeling alone, and I'm sitting there alone at home,
link |
and I wish I could hang out with somebody, that's like a realization how awesome people are.
link |
Yeah. So it's like the missing the... Yeah. We don't have a lot of that in life anymore,
link |
because we can have anything we want immediately. So the missing has gone away, which again
link |
drives down the joy of having it. So I think you're right. You need both.
link |
So like you said, you have a condition, a terminal condition, not much, many years left.
link |
Do you think about your mortality? You think about that? All day, every day.
link |
Are you afraid? Not afraid, because it's inevitable. So it's more like,
link |
what are we, how are we going to handle this? It's like the winter is coming. Let's stock up on
link |
some nuts. The existential nature of it, the fact that this ride ends, what the hell are you doing
link |
any of this for? Satisfaction, cappiness? Short term, but there is a presumption there
link |
that it kind of goes on forever. I think if you truly think about the fact that it ends...
link |
Your brain almost shuts it down. There's some kind of protective switch that just goes off.
link |
I mean, that's why the Stoics encourage people to meditate on death because it somehow
link |
reorganizes your priorities. It helps you like, holy shit, this ends, make the most of the day.
link |
Yes. It's just a nice thing, but still you can't quite comprehend that the thing ends.
link |
Little things too. People go like, oh, we got a layover between our flights. It's an hour.
link |
What are we going to do for an hour? It's like, maybe what are you going to do for an hour?
link |
You're going to kill an hour. How are we going to kill this hour? This is part of your life.
link |
You're just trying to get rid of it? You're just trying to kill it? That always blew my mind.
link |
Like, hey, fuck it. Let's go hit the airport bar. Let's get a candy bar or something,
link |
anything with bar. But it's just, you've got to live. I hate this. How are we going to burn?
link |
Oh, the bar didn't open for 15 minutes. What are we going to do? Well, we got 15 minutes.
link |
We got the world as our oyster. Yeah, I make the most of it. And like you said,
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in modern day, actually the boredom is a gift. Like when you're waiting for something,
link |
that's a gift. You get to be with your thoughts. Those are the same thoughts you'll have when
link |
you're on your deathbed. There won't be a, you won't be scrolling TikTok on your deathbed.
link |
I hope not. Jesus. You'd be a little more, actually, maybe you would be.
link |
What a sad existence. Because it would be a good, like content creators would be like,
link |
ooh, I'm dying. This would be good content. Yeah. I want to be able to film the exact moment.
link |
It goes, like, last words. I wonder what my last words will be. It's a good way to like
link |
end the account with a bang. Yep. I like that. Well, you know that you've ever seen that meme
link |
where the old guy in bed, he goes, I wish I had tweeted more, you know, and then he dies. It's
link |
so true. Could be the future. What do you think is the meaning of life?
link |
I don't think there is one. Everybody always throws that out there. There isn't a meaning. I think
link |
we're here. We're lucky to be here. I think there's no afterlife. There's no heaven. That's,
link |
that's all shit. We tell ourselves to feel better. And I think you got to just,
link |
it's like saying, what is the meaning of this food I made? Well, it's just you enjoy the food.
link |
You try to get the most out of it. You built the food. You prepared it. So just get what you
link |
can out of it. Don't die and try to make it last as long as possible. Yeah. But you look at earth.
link |
It's like four billion years old and life started early on, like, like simple cell
link |
bacteria life, like a one billion years in. And then it started like having lots of
link |
aggressive interaction. Eventually there's predator and prey and there's sex, lots of sex,
link |
lots of sex, lots of violence. Oh yeah. And then, you know, through natural selection,
link |
there's just a whole evolutionary process of, of animals that have loved and lost and murdered
link |
and gotten murdered and all that kind of stuff. And it's somehow led to human civilization. We're
link |
super busy trying to create things and creating beautiful art, creating beautiful comedy.
link |
Yeah. Just always creating something new. It feels like it's tending towards something like,
link |
it's not dying. If you die tomorrow, you still have all these hours of pods. So it's kind of,
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you're thinking of cheating death in a subconscious way, I think. Right. You know who
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Ernest Becker is and. I've heard the name. It's a book called The Now of Death, this idea that,
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that if you don't acknowledge. Books on my show. Girls love it. Really? Like Dostoyevsky. No, I'm
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just, I'm saying, you want to bring Tolstoy Dostoyevsky, Russian literature. It's back to norm.
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It's good to bring to, because no American has read any Russian literature, but they all appreciate
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it if you bring it. And it's not like they're going to ask you and you'll generate questions
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because they haven't read it. Yep. So you can always pretend like you've read it. So it's a.
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It's a little dense. Can we get a shortened version?
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Cliff notes. Yes. Or make a movie with Ben Stiller that I can just go, oh, this is based on
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what is it? Life and death? No, it's the one. War and peace. War and peace. Yeah. So Ernest
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Becker's theory and there's this whole terror management theory that basically says that like
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our terror of death, our fear of death is one of the central creative forces of the human condition.
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It's the reason we're trying to, yeah, cheat death. We're trying to delude ourselves that somehow we
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can become immortal through our art. That's why you've uploaded your special to YouTube because
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you think your special will outlive all of human civilization. You think YouTube will
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outlive all of human civilization. That can go away tomorrow. That can go away tomorrow.
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All of this can go away. So I'm truly grateful, Mr. Mark Norman, that you would spend your very
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valuable time with me today, even though it could all go away. This could be the last day of our
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lives. And won't you be quite upset? This is how you spent it. Ah, yeah, in your hotel room. What
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am I? You're like Harvey Weinstein here. You've screwed me up and now I feel fucked. Just wait
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what we have ready for you after the podcast is over. All right, brother. Thanks so much for
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talking to me. Thank you. That was great. Comedy. Thanks for listening to this conversation with
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Mark Normand. To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description.
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And now let me leave you with some words from Mark Normand himself on his Twitter,
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which you should definitely follow because it's hilarious. The worst thing about getting
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Omicron for Christmas is you know it was regifted. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next