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Will Sasso: Comedy, MADtv, AI, Friendship, Madness, and Pro Wrestling | Lex Fridman Podcast #323


small model | large model

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Once this whole thing falls apart
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and we are climbing the kudzu vines
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that spiral up the Sears Tower,
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like they say in Fight Club,
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Bobby will go back to his gatherer form
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and be happy as a pig and shit.
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Just walking around in a loincloth with his bird
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hanging out, tracking jokes to people
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and climbing up on them for a stool lap dance
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or whatever he does.
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You think some level of crazy is required for comedy?
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Yeah.
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Like at some point.
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Yes.
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Have there been low points in your life?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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The following is a conversation with Will Sasso,
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a comedian, actor, podcaster
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and someone I've been a fan of for many years
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since mad TV in the late 90s
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to recently with the 10 minute podcast
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and now the new podcast called Dudezy.
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This is the Lex Friedman podcast.
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The supported, please check out our sponsors
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in the description.
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And now dear friends, here's Will Sasso.
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So let's call it the elephant in the room.
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You wore a black suit in a recent episode of Dudezy.
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Yes.
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You wore a black suit again today.
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Shakespeare then Mark Twain said clothes make the man.
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What kind of man does a suit make you?
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Well, me in particular, it makes me a fellow
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who did not get this dry cleaned in between
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because that episode of the show as we sit here now
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was around a week ago.
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So that's the kind of man it makes me.
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Well, the nice thing is you're wearing pants, I think.
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Yeah, I am wearing pants.
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I don't think you were wearing pants in the episode.
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That's correct.
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I prefer to wear shorts, but this was a special occasion.
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So I'm wearing pants and I thought it fitting
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obviously to just wear the black tie
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and clothes do make the man.
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And I would not consider myself to be a man of leisure
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but I do enjoy shorts because my legs get hot.
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So that's what kind of man the shorts make me.
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Often you wear a suit.
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I fucking hate wearing suits.
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So what is this a statement of, is it ironic?
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Or are you honoring the gods of this particular podcast?
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I'm honoring the gods of this particular podcast
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would be a good way to put it.
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Yes, no, this is in reverence of and in dedication to you
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and our newfound friendship here,
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which we are making on the podcast.
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You and I just met.
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Everything that we're saying here
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is the first things that we're saying to each other.
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So I'm meeting you on common ground, dressed like.
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Well, I've been actually a one way friend of yours
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for many, many years, it's mad TV.
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Oh.
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When did you start on mad TV?
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So that was, I mean, in 90s?
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97, yeah.
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97.
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So I was a huge fan of yours and the cast was incredible.
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It was one of the funniest shows ever created.
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Your whole journey watching through that was incredible
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from mad TV to three suges to the podcast,
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the 10 minute pod and then the new podcast is incredible.
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Cheers.
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My favorite role that you played was the mountain
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in the game of thrones.
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What was it like working with dragons?
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Well, the dragons are usually tennis balls
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on the end of sea stands, but sometimes they hang out.
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I am sea stand.
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It's like, you know, it's like a little like the thing
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you got the camera on here.
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Oh, this is like film lingo.
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Yeah, no, I understand.
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I'm trying to impress you with my film lingo.
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You know what a banana is?
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Yeah.
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When you walk like this, do it a banana.
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I take it back.
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I did not know what a banana was.
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Yeah, see, it means something.
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Yeah, cause it's just a food.
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Yeah.
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Normally.
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You fancy Hollywood folk with the lingo.
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And I'm, my name is Bjorn Hapthor Bjornsson
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and I am seven foot four.
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And yeah, so dragon stone.
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Dragon stone scare me,
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even though they've been extinct for a while.
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We use scientists, right, does that check out?
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Yeah, I actually, I'm really into video games.
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I don't know if you play video games.
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There's a, there's a Skyrim video game
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that's part of the Elder Scrolls series.
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And for the longest time,
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there's a legend that there's dragons.
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I think it started in Daggerfall.
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And so I always, I grew up playing those video games,
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a dreaming of one day meeting a dragon in a virtual world.
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And eventually you did in Skyrim.
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So it's dragons represent,
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I don't know exactly what they represent,
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but they represent maybe this kind of mythical creature
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that is bigger,
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that anything humans can possibly comprehend, maybe.
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Cause they're so, they show up so often in myth
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from the, from the religious stories,
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you know, of the snake and so on, the serpent.
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And I don't know what that is.
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Well, this breathing fire, that's kind of weird.
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It's interesting.
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When I think about dragons,
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cause now that you bring it up,
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these are people that probably wouldn't have access
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to the fact that there used to be dinosaurs.
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Right.
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But if they didn't, they're drawn things that look like,
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you know, a dinosaur cousin, but cool,
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that can breathe fire and has wacky wings and a spiked tail.
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Yeah, where the heck did they come up with that?
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Cause they're clearly of course represented in mythology,
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all the way back to, no, not cave drawings.
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Well, the Egyptians probably knew what the,
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and they could time travel.
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So they would have gone back to the caves.
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Well, the aliens that placed living organisms on earth,
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could time travel and they could plant legends
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into the, into the collective intelligence
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of the human species.
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Yeah. And perhaps they were thinking of us
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to do something smart with it.
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And we didn't, we just came up with the sky.
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Oh no.
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We're just, what's that?
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Sorry, that was very offensive.
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I'm sorry.
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I don't mean to offend you with your video game.
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I'm more of a burger, a burger time Donkey Kong dude.
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Oh, what is that?
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That's an original burger time was an arcade game
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that later showed up on the Intellivision was Intellivision.
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I believe it was made by Texas Instruments,
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horrible first generation video game console
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and burger time, you just, it's like Super Mario,
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you just got to stay away from the eggs
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and the pickles and stuff.
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And you just go, meep, meep, meep, meep, meep,
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and you, the bun falls and then you go down to the,
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meep, meep, meep, meep, in the cheese and then the meat.
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I'm not going to say it's as complicated as Skyrim,
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but it took me a while to finish it when I was seven.
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Did you play video games that was a part of your life,
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a part of the source of happiness for you at all?
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It was, it was, I played video games up until around,
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I think in 2010, I got the red ring of death
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on my Xbox 360.
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That was it?
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That was it, I never, or whatever the Xbox was then.
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Yeah.
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I had, I was playing, I had finished the Grand Theft Auto
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that was out and it finished the Red Dead Redemption.
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So I was doing that thing where you just drive around,
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you know, the streets of New York,
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or just ride around on your horse shooting people
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and, you know, throwing grenades into groups of people
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in Grand Theft.
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And you're describing the same thing that happened
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a decade later,
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because it's now Red Dead Redemption 2
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and there's still not a new Grand Theft Auto, so.
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Yeah, there isn't, right?
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Yeah, they're working on it.
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They're always flirting with that idea.
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You know who else plays Skyrim?
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Another person, the two people I'm a huge fan of
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from that time in Matt TV is Bobby Lee.
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He plays Skyrim?
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He's a huge fan of Skyrim.
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He plays every.
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So what Bobby Lee loves to do is to grind,
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do the boring task over and over, gather mushrooms.
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They can Skyrim, you can fight dragons,
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you can fight all kinds of things,
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but you can also gather mushrooms and different ingredients
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to make potions and all that kind of stuff.
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He loves the ingredients.
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That he's the, you know, in the hunter gatherer world,
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he's the gatherer.
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He's the gatherer.
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Yeah, I've heard him described that way
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and he likes to describe himself that way.
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I worked with Bobby not too long ago.
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He came and did a couple of days on this thing
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we were shooting and I was looking forward
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to catching up with my old pal.
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And if you know anything about Bobby Lee,
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you'd probably be able to predict
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that he spent that entire time
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playing farming on his iPad.
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Well, humans are a source of anxiety and trouble.
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So sometimes it's good to escape human interaction
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through video games.
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Totally.
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I'm with him on that.
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He's one of the funniest people ever.
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What do you think makes him funny?
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It's just all the times you've worked with him,
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the nonstandard, nonsecular way of his being.
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Bobby Lee is one of the most raw people,
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raw performers who lets it all hang out
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to the degree that he will even get naked
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in front of his audience,
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which is usually a metaphor for someone doing standup.
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I'm bearing all, I'm showing you everything
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and Bobby will just pull his bird out of his pants.
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Yeah, I don't think he understands metaphor too much.
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He embodies metaphor.
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Yes, he embodies metaphor.
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He's the gatherer, we call him the gathering metaphor.
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Bobby the gatherer metaphor.
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He's a metaphor for something else,
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for somebody else's life.
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Someday he'll be in the dictionary.
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Yeah.
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Representing some kind of concept,
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maybe the metaphor itself.
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Yeah, once this whole thing falls apart
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and we are climbing the kudzu vines
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that spiral up the Sears Tower,
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like they say in Fight Club,
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Bobby will go back to his gatherer form
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and be happy as a pig and shit.
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Just walking around in a loincloth
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with his bird hanging out,
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tracking jokes to people and climbing up on them
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for a stool lap dance or whatever he does.
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I'd love to dig into something he did.
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You guys did a lot of great podcasts together.
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He asked you in a very uncomfortable process
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of why you don't do standup.
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So let me ask you, do you hate money?
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Well, I'm originally from Canada.
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Yeah, so I'm a frickin Pinko socialist.
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Is that where you come from?
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That's not a nice thing to say.
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I thought the Soviet Union, that is a nice thing to say.
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Like Comrade.
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Someone a Pinko.
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Right, Comrade, he's a good socialist.
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Yeah.
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With red, like some bold colors.
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Yeah.
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There was an interesting tension in your voice
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and the way you talked about it.
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There's just not a source of happiness for you.
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You respect the art form,
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but it was not something that you were connected to,
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if you felt connected to.
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That's a good way to put it.
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Yeah, I respect the art form a lot.
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And I grew up with all the albums and stuff.
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I had an older brother and sister who,
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so we had George Carlin, we had Richard Pryor,
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we had Robert Klein, we had Gilda Live,
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the Gilda Radner concert.
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We had all sorts of stuff.
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But I don't know, there's a lot of reasons.
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I do feel like a career and show business is,
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it never goes the way you plan, like most things.
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And I was fortunate enough to get started
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outside of my native Vancouver,
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or in my native Vancouver.
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I grew up in the Burbs outside
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and there was a lot of industry there.
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So I was fortunate enough to get started as an actor
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when I was like 16.
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So yeah, there were some times early on
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where I came up with some standup stuff and did it,
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but yeah, I quickly abandoned it.
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And then you go through, you do mad TV and stuff.
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And that's where my, this is gonna sound weird.
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Do I sound as anxiety as I did
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when I was on Bobby's podcast,
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trying to avoid his questions?
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Well, he was giving you this face this whole time
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that was making the whole just atmosphere
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feel full of anxiety.
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So I'm trying not to give you the face.
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The whole time I was saying, play cool, play cool.
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Yeah, okay.
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Play cool, Lex.
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Play cool, you said it out loud a couple of times.
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I did.
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Just, you know, you cut that out.
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Play cool.
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Play cool, dude.
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Cut it out, cut it out.
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Maintain, bro.
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Here's what I'll say, there's two ways to do it.
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I think it's lame when someone who's done one thing
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for a while goes and starts doing standup out of nowhere.
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Cause I think it's an art form that's under attack
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because it's not like anything else.
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You need, although now you can of course,
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you know, make whatever you want.
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It's the era of self publishing
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as far as making a product and putting it out there,
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which is getting easier, of course.
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And I can't wait to talk to you about that with AI
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and how it's changing art.
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But the, in standup, all you need is a microphone
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and you know, perhaps it would be good
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to have some mental illness
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and then you can just run up there and talk forever.
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And I say this to, you know, comedians.
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It's like, you guys have to deal with just an influx
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of people who aren't sure why they're doing comedy.
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I would ask comedians and like, I mean, not good ones
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and good ones, you know what they're doing,
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but everyone else like, what are you doing?
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Why, why are you doing standup?
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Having said that, I am allergic to money.
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Yeah.
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Do you think they have a good answer for that?
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Why are they doing it?
link |
00:12:43.400
Cause I actually like, when I'm in Austin,
link |
00:12:45.080
I like going to open mics, just listening.
link |
00:12:47.640
It's inspiring to me, both the funny and the unfunny people
link |
00:12:52.480
because they've been doing it for several years,
link |
00:12:55.080
sometimes over a decade
link |
00:12:56.840
and they're still at it.
link |
00:12:58.160
They're still right there.
link |
00:12:59.000
They're just going for the punch.
link |
00:13:00.160
And then especially open mics that are really sad
link |
00:13:04.080
in that there is, you know, only like five other people
link |
00:13:07.400
in the audience and they're usually just other comedians
link |
00:13:10.160
and they're still going all out
link |
00:13:12.040
as if they're in front of a stadium.
link |
00:13:14.040
But that to me sounds like someone who loves it.
link |
00:13:16.760
Yeah.
link |
00:13:17.600
I got no questions for that person.
link |
00:13:19.280
I got questions for someone who goes sideways
link |
00:13:21.920
from here I'm recognizable doing something
link |
00:13:24.760
and then I'm doing standup
link |
00:13:26.520
because it's like, and truly, look, I've been,
link |
00:13:29.560
I've been fortunate enough to be in the business
link |
00:13:30.920
for a long time.
link |
00:13:31.760
And at this point, if I came up,
link |
00:13:33.320
I mean, doing live stuff is fun.
link |
00:13:35.440
I have friends that are like, you know,
link |
00:13:38.000
some guys who are primarily sketch people
link |
00:13:40.480
or you would look at them as sketch people
link |
00:13:42.040
and they can sell tickets for being sketch people
link |
00:13:44.200
and they, and we'll talk about it.
link |
00:13:45.640
And they're like, you know, I do a monologue
link |
00:13:47.840
and I do a little standup, then I do a song,
link |
00:13:50.400
then I do another monologue,
link |
00:13:51.720
then I play off the audience, do a little standup.
link |
00:13:54.320
But standup is, it's almost like playing music
link |
00:13:59.360
in that, you know, people are going up there playing music
link |
00:14:03.080
but what band have you been listening to?
link |
00:14:04.480
That's what you're gonna sound like.
link |
00:14:06.360
So it's really, I mean, of course,
link |
00:14:08.440
I'm speaking from zero experience,
link |
00:14:10.480
but I've heard it takes years, of course,
link |
00:14:12.760
to find your own voice, standups that when they first go up,
link |
00:14:16.200
they're doing some sort of impersonation of so and so
link |
00:14:19.760
and so and so and then you gotta pop this audience
link |
00:14:22.800
that's paying and you're gonna get run over
link |
00:14:25.640
by the next person who's coming up
link |
00:14:27.440
and it's hard to follow the last person
link |
00:14:29.800
who went up before you.
link |
00:14:31.160
And I, I mean, that is a really hard way to,
link |
00:14:34.520
it's a very, it's quite a gauntlet to be in
link |
00:14:37.280
to find your voice comedically.
link |
00:14:38.600
But don't you have that same kind of thing with sketch,
link |
00:14:40.800
where you still have to find your own voice
link |
00:14:42.840
with like all the impressions you do,
link |
00:14:44.800
they're just terrible, you know,
link |
00:14:46.640
there are different spins and different people,
link |
00:14:49.400
they're not like perfect impressions, right?
link |
00:14:52.440
So that's the, I mean,
link |
00:14:54.320
that's a similar kind of challenging journey as standup.
link |
00:14:57.720
You're just saying they're kind of distinct
link |
00:15:00.120
and you fell into this one and you fell in love with it,
link |
00:15:02.600
which is like what Mad TV kind of opened you up to.
link |
00:15:05.720
Yeah, as a kid, I literally wanted to be an actor.
link |
00:15:08.360
I always wanted to be an actor from a very young age,
link |
00:15:11.040
as far back as I can remember,
link |
00:15:12.320
and I was the class clown and wanted to do comedy stuff
link |
00:15:15.600
and comedic acting and...
link |
00:15:17.120
So comedic acting.
link |
00:15:18.240
Yeah, early on my influences were a very predictable list
link |
00:15:22.840
of guys from SETV, early Saturday Night Live,
link |
00:15:28.720
Monty Python, all of those performers really influenced me.
link |
00:15:32.600
It was later that I saw people like Kevin Klein,
link |
00:15:36.560
who's an incredible actor.
link |
00:15:38.360
I vividly remember being like 12, 13,
link |
00:15:41.080
seeing him get an Academy Award for Fish Called Wanda
link |
00:15:44.400
and it blew my mind,
link |
00:15:45.720
because I was like, he was hilarious.
link |
00:15:47.200
I mean, it was one of my favorite movies back then and now.
link |
00:15:50.320
And he won an Academy Award
link |
00:15:52.640
and at that point I started thinking more about acting.
link |
00:15:58.000
And then I was, like I said, really fortunate to fall in
link |
00:16:01.680
with, I mean, I always wanted to do it
link |
00:16:04.120
and I was trying to hustle this and that when I was a kid
link |
00:16:06.480
and then I ended up getting represented
link |
00:16:09.440
and then I ended up on a teen show.
link |
00:16:11.720
I was on, basically the easiest way to pitch it
link |
00:16:14.560
is it's like a Canadian, my so called life
link |
00:16:17.600
with these kids and their lives and stuff.
link |
00:16:19.480
And I did that for like five years and I really love acting.
link |
00:16:23.520
I really, truly love acting and I don't,
link |
00:16:27.120
I'm not someone who wants people to know my opinion.
link |
00:16:30.320
So that's another thing about stand up.
link |
00:16:33.200
Like I love the illusion of what I get to do in entertainment
link |
00:16:38.560
and podcasting is great for that.
link |
00:16:40.880
But to stand up there and for, I don't know, just for me
link |
00:16:45.160
it's like it would have to all be fantasy.
link |
00:16:48.200
And yeah.
link |
00:16:50.200
So Nietzsche said that every profound spirit needs a mask.
link |
00:16:55.320
Like you said, you don't like to talk about in your comedy,
link |
00:16:59.520
you don't like to talk about stuff that's personal to you.
link |
00:17:02.600
Yeah.
link |
00:17:03.600
What is that?
link |
00:17:04.800
If you were to psychoanalyze yourself,
link |
00:17:07.200
do you think it's just not something you find funny
link |
00:17:10.040
or is it, are you running from something?
link |
00:17:14.400
And it's not your fault, Will.
link |
00:17:16.600
It's not your fault, Will.
link |
00:17:18.440
Speaking of another really great comedic actor
link |
00:17:21.280
who's also a serious actor, Rob Williams.
link |
00:17:23.480
One of the best serious actors.
link |
00:17:25.360
I mean, I mean, I, and you know,
link |
00:17:29.040
one of the funniest people of all time,
link |
00:17:30.480
but as great, as incredible as he was as a funny man,
link |
00:17:35.000
as a stand up and a performer,
link |
00:17:37.440
I almost like his serious stuff better.
link |
00:17:39.760
Can I ask you a question about that?
link |
00:17:40.920
What do you make of the, that he committed suicide?
link |
00:17:43.480
I think it's, I mean, it's super depressing.
link |
00:17:47.240
I've referred to him as like the Jesus Christ of depression.
link |
00:17:52.480
It's almost like he died for others depression,
link |
00:17:54.480
you know what I mean?
link |
00:17:55.800
Yeah, yeah.
link |
00:17:56.640
You'd look at someone like that and go,
link |
00:17:58.160
wait a minute, you're a rock star.
link |
00:17:59.120
Like you don't, you could just check out
link |
00:18:01.480
if you're not liking your life.
link |
00:18:03.240
And of course, something like suicide
link |
00:18:05.680
begs that you look a little deeper
link |
00:18:07.120
and realize how tortured the human mind can make someone.
link |
00:18:12.960
Is there some aspect to, you know, we're in LA,
link |
00:18:16.000
is there some aspect of celebrity that it's isolating
link |
00:18:18.960
that can make you feel really lonely?
link |
00:18:21.280
Not me, I don't feel, no, not really.
link |
00:18:24.160
You feel the love?
link |
00:18:25.680
No, I just feel like I'm not, I mean, it's like,
link |
00:18:28.480
I don't know, I've always kind of had a small group of friends
link |
00:18:32.080
and those people don't, you know,
link |
00:18:34.240
it's like I've known the same people for years and years.
link |
00:18:37.040
You never really felt the celebrity, really.
link |
00:18:38.760
No, in LA it's hard to, it's hard for people.
link |
00:18:42.000
Nobody cares, they see you and then the next minute
link |
00:18:44.480
they see so and so.
link |
00:18:45.840
So it's like, you know, I'm the guy from that,
link |
00:18:50.760
Mike and Molly, right?
link |
00:18:51.760
Nope, nope, close.
link |
00:18:52.960
King of, you shave your head, you go bald,
link |
00:18:56.080
are you king and queens?
link |
00:18:57.080
Nope, it's not me.
link |
00:18:58.800
So, close.
link |
00:19:00.800
You're, wow, shit.
link |
00:19:02.160
You used to be the mountain on Game of Thrones.
link |
00:19:04.720
You look like shit, what happened?
link |
00:19:06.320
Just eating fried dough?
link |
00:19:08.600
Yeah.
link |
00:19:09.440
Yeah, that's what's up.
link |
00:19:11.000
Can't lift any weights anymore.
link |
00:19:12.400
I'm at the gym doing like 15 pounds with shoulder press
link |
00:19:16.120
and people coming up to me.
link |
00:19:19.280
You used to be a dragon killer dude.
link |
00:19:20.800
Half a man used to be.
link |
00:19:22.960
What's, have there been low points in your life?
link |
00:19:25.880
Sorry to go there, but.
link |
00:19:29.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
link |
00:19:31.000
Hey.
link |
00:19:31.840
Yeah?
link |
00:19:32.680
Yeah.
link |
00:19:33.520
Yeah.
link |
00:19:35.400
Yeah, there's, everybody has a low point in life.
link |
00:19:38.600
The opera.
link |
00:19:39.440
You suffer from like depression
link |
00:19:40.280
and you know, those kinds of things.
link |
00:19:41.120
You know what I do, I do.
link |
00:19:42.560
I have, I have a bunch of stuff.
link |
00:19:45.840
How do you deal with it?
link |
00:19:46.800
Said friends, the friends and the.
link |
00:19:48.920
They don't do anything for me in that sense.
link |
00:19:51.280
Yeah.
link |
00:19:52.120
I have a, I have an incredible fiance who,
link |
00:19:55.080
that's nice to have somebody constant
link |
00:19:58.320
that you love very much and see as the best person
link |
00:20:01.120
and all that good stuff, hopefully vice versa.
link |
00:20:04.240
And then.
link |
00:20:05.080
Well, on your recent Instagram,
link |
00:20:06.800
she said that she loves you.
link |
00:20:08.880
So, at least allegedly.
link |
00:20:11.000
Yeah, allegedly.
link |
00:20:12.120
That might all be for, yeah.
link |
00:20:13.680
How much money did you pay her to say that?
link |
00:20:15.680
I don't, I don't have any cause I'm not a standup.
link |
00:20:18.160
I was like, I can do, you got Venmo?
link |
00:20:20.840
Yeah, yeah.
link |
00:20:21.680
I got, I only have like a hundred and twenty three.
link |
00:20:23.040
I give you some Dogecoin.
link |
00:20:24.360
Yeah, some Doge.
link |
00:20:25.360
Yeah.
link |
00:20:26.200
You got, you want some Doge?
link |
00:20:27.880
I got some of those monkey NFTs.
link |
00:20:30.360
Oh, before I forget.
link |
00:20:31.400
Yes.
link |
00:20:32.400
Hold on a second.
link |
00:20:33.760
Oh, no.
link |
00:20:35.360
Put a dude's sticker on your microphone, if that's okay.
link |
00:20:38.040
Sure.
link |
00:20:39.880
Here.
link |
00:20:40.840
Oh, yeah.
link |
00:20:41.680
These are tricky cause I have the thumbs of a,
link |
00:20:44.040
I have like Italian sausage.
link |
00:20:45.400
Don't wait, watch this happen.
link |
00:20:46.880
I'm just gonna.
link |
00:20:48.120
This will take another.
link |
00:20:49.720
Yeah.
link |
00:20:50.560
Yeah.
link |
00:20:51.880
Oh man.
link |
00:20:52.720
Yeah.
link |
00:20:53.560
Ooh, this is embarrassing.
link |
00:20:54.400
Are you good under pressure?
link |
00:20:57.120
I have anxiety.
link |
00:20:58.640
I have performance anxiety.
link |
00:20:59.800
Do you have anxiety?
link |
00:21:01.080
Yeah.
link |
00:21:01.920
You have anxiety period?
link |
00:21:02.740
Period.
link |
00:21:03.580
I don't like it when I, if I have to pee
link |
00:21:06.880
and then everyone's waiting in the urinals.
link |
00:21:10.000
Yeah.
link |
00:21:10.840
I don't like it.
link |
00:21:11.680
You know what'll help you in that situation?
link |
00:21:13.160
What's that?
link |
00:21:14.000
Taking a shit.
link |
00:21:15.080
Cause whenever you take a shit, you always pee a little.
link |
00:21:18.080
It's hard to take a shit while you're standing at a urinal,
link |
00:21:20.760
but.
link |
00:21:21.600
Not in my world.
link |
00:21:22.760
Okay.
link |
00:21:23.600
You just gotta keep yourself full of things
link |
00:21:24.440
to make your shit.
link |
00:21:25.400
Oh, good.
link |
00:21:26.240
Have you ever heard of a banana?
link |
00:21:28.000
I did recently, somebody told me about it.
link |
00:21:30.240
Not the showbiz term, I'm talking about the food.
link |
00:21:33.120
Oh.
link |
00:21:33.960
There we go.
link |
00:21:34.800
There we go.
link |
00:21:38.120
Which way is this way?
link |
00:21:39.600
It's like a D.
link |
00:21:40.440
No, spin it.
link |
00:21:41.280
There you go.
link |
00:21:42.620
All right.
link |
00:21:46.120
So sexy.
link |
00:21:48.440
You're like a brand.
link |
00:21:50.040
Yeah.
link |
00:21:50.880
It's very important to brand yourself.
link |
00:21:51.920
These colors.
link |
00:21:52.760
Are you selling shoes?
link |
00:21:55.080
Yeah.
link |
00:21:55.920
I got some custom kicks coming out.
link |
00:21:57.920
The dudes he, no, actually that would be a good idea.
link |
00:22:01.880
You can probably sell a pair or two of those.
link |
00:22:03.920
Speaking of anxiety, I really am only focused
link |
00:22:06.600
on this right now, Alex.
link |
00:22:07.600
I apologize.
link |
00:22:08.440
Just shit your pants.
link |
00:22:09.440
It'll make you be easier.
link |
00:22:10.760
Get on with it.
link |
00:22:12.120
Oh, this thing has been dog ear to my pocket for a while.
link |
00:22:14.400
I swear this never happens to me.
link |
00:22:16.240
I'm sorry, babe.
link |
00:22:17.080
People don't thumb it a sticker for an hour
link |
00:22:18.960
while they're doing the podcast.
link |
00:22:19.800
No, this is just an excuse you make
link |
00:22:21.000
when you're with somebody and you're underperforming.
link |
00:22:23.520
Well, here's the thing.
link |
00:22:25.080
As you ask me questions that I don't want to answer,
link |
00:22:27.640
I'll just go to this.
link |
00:22:28.480
Go go to the sticker.
link |
00:22:29.320
So if this ends up working, then I won't have it.
link |
00:22:33.040
It's funny how you started doing that
link |
00:22:34.240
when we were talking about depression.
link |
00:22:35.480
That's weird.
link |
00:22:36.320
That is weird.
link |
00:22:38.160
Tell me how that makes you feel.
link |
00:22:42.800
Here we are.
link |
00:22:43.640
We got it.
link |
00:22:44.480
For the listener, he succeeded after 10 minutes.
link |
00:22:47.520
Yeah.
link |
00:22:48.360
No, I do have some of that stuff.
link |
00:22:51.040
Bobby Lee had encouraged me on wax as I like to say
link |
00:22:56.040
to talk about it on podcasts, talk about depression
link |
00:22:59.960
because it could help people.
link |
00:23:01.400
And I said, no, but it's true.
link |
00:23:05.000
I do have some.
link |
00:23:06.320
There's some history in the family.
link |
00:23:08.200
How do you overcome it?
link |
00:23:09.600
Well, I used to not believe in medication at all.
link |
00:23:12.800
I used to think that that was for someone else
link |
00:23:14.760
who's been diagnosed with some of the rougher stuff.
link |
00:23:21.160
But as I got older, then some of the stuff happens.
link |
00:23:24.600
And you have to, and by stuff, I mean mental stuff.
link |
00:23:32.440
And yeah, so I went and I just,
link |
00:23:35.440
I believe that the stigma needs to be removed completely.
link |
00:23:38.720
100%.
link |
00:23:39.720
And so I do therapy, I do talk therapy.
link |
00:23:43.640
I'm on a little bit of stuff, which let me tell you,
link |
00:23:47.880
when I first started it, I was,
link |
00:23:51.600
you know, someone I'm close to was like my manager.
link |
00:23:55.680
And she goes, this is too much.
link |
00:23:58.040
But she was like, yeah, you don't have to white knuckle it
link |
00:24:00.240
through life, right?
link |
00:24:01.560
Cause I was literally just like everything became,
link |
00:24:05.680
you know, really hard to do at a level
link |
00:24:07.640
that I wanted to do it at,
link |
00:24:08.960
even just getting through your day, right?
link |
00:24:12.520
And when I first got some of the meds that I'm on,
link |
00:24:18.920
it felt like doors and windows were opening
link |
00:24:21.400
literally in my brain.
link |
00:24:22.560
I took a three hour nap the first day
link |
00:24:26.800
and you shouldn't even feel this stuff the first day.
link |
00:24:29.480
I think my brain was like, it was like a sponge.
link |
00:24:31.520
It wanted to, I needed some relief.
link |
00:24:33.640
And I'm not a nap guy.
link |
00:24:35.040
I can sleep three hours and I'll be fine.
link |
00:24:38.280
But I took a long nap and then it started to help.
link |
00:24:43.120
Yeah, isn't that weird how a little bit of chemistry
link |
00:24:46.280
in your head, in case you just make the whole world appear,
link |
00:24:49.960
it's so much more beautiful.
link |
00:24:51.520
Yeah, I mean, after all, there's a lot going on
link |
00:24:56.560
in your brain that can be changed by, you know,
link |
00:24:59.600
your lifestyle, but also so many physical things
link |
00:25:01.960
like a little bit of meds.
link |
00:25:03.840
Or in Bobby's case, you know,
link |
00:25:06.280
thumbing around on some dumb farming app.
link |
00:25:09.680
Well, Bobby's gone through a few rough periods
link |
00:25:12.400
with like, you know, with drugs and alcohol
link |
00:25:15.000
and all that kind of stuff.
link |
00:25:16.520
And just everything else involved.
link |
00:25:18.800
I mean, that's the beautiful roller coaster of who he is
link |
00:25:21.000
and a lot of great comedians seem to be that way.
link |
00:25:23.800
So I wonder what the connection there is.
link |
00:25:25.440
You think some level of crazy is required for comedy?
link |
00:25:29.080
Yeah.
link |
00:25:29.920
Or like, at some point.
link |
00:25:31.280
Yes.
link |
00:25:32.760
On a scale of one to 10, how much crazy do you have?
link |
00:25:37.040
In some ways, a 10.
link |
00:25:39.760
And in other ways that I think,
link |
00:25:43.200
in other ways, it's sort of functionally
link |
00:25:44.920
on like a two or a three.
link |
00:25:46.880
Because I don't know, I'm from Canada and I'm,
link |
00:25:50.280
Yeah.
link |
00:25:51.120
You know, I try to just keep things very even keeled.
link |
00:25:54.200
My parents are Italian, they're from Italy
link |
00:25:57.160
and you know, they grew up during World War II
link |
00:26:00.160
and they're very, you know, simple outlook on things.
link |
00:26:04.400
They're complex, incredible, classy people
link |
00:26:08.400
who are very simple when it comes to a lot of stuff.
link |
00:26:12.920
And I think just being a sort of a at heart
link |
00:26:17.320
kind of a timid Canadian coming out here years ago as a kid,
link |
00:26:23.280
it was all I could do to just keep everything super normal.
link |
00:26:28.680
And then I sort of was able to settle into that
link |
00:26:32.360
as a lifestyle.
link |
00:26:33.680
But you love the idea of being an actor.
link |
00:26:36.960
Like who, you mentioned John Candy
link |
00:26:39.040
and Plains in Automobiles F.
link |
00:26:42.560
It's one of my favorite movies, he says, one of yours.
link |
00:26:44.960
What do you think that makes that movie work?
link |
00:26:47.680
What do you, and when you talk about enjoying that movie,
link |
00:26:53.320
do you enjoy just the raw comedy
link |
00:26:54.960
or do you enjoy like the friendship
link |
00:26:56.680
and the love that's there, even though on the surface,
link |
00:27:02.240
it doesn't make any sense
link |
00:27:03.320
that there should be a friendship there?
link |
00:27:05.480
I mean, that's such an important element to that film.
link |
00:27:08.200
But you know, as a kid, I just loved the comedy.
link |
00:27:11.440
And then it's been a nostalgic favorite of mine,
link |
00:27:14.320
like it's my favorite movie,
link |
00:27:16.440
but it's also, it's just legit my favorite movie
link |
00:27:19.880
because as you get older and you start watching it,
link |
00:27:22.760
you realize it's what John Hughes is the filmmaker
link |
00:27:26.440
and what John Candy, particularly,
link |
00:27:29.560
and but also Steve Martin are doing in the film
link |
00:27:32.240
that makes it such a work of art,
link |
00:27:33.760
which is loneliness is there in every moment of that film.
link |
00:27:38.760
And John Candy is, he embodies Del Griffith,
link |
00:27:43.760
his character in the film.
link |
00:27:45.280
Del Griffith is a lonely guy.
link |
00:27:47.720
And John Candy, but Del Griffith is also a very friendly guy
link |
00:27:51.280
and a shower curtain ring salesman
link |
00:27:53.080
and knows everybody in the Midwest
link |
00:27:55.160
and runs around to motels
link |
00:27:56.360
and has meaningful conversations with the guy,
link |
00:27:59.040
even in Gus, whoever he's talking to.
link |
00:28:03.200
But there's loneliness there all the time.
link |
00:28:05.960
And this is a character, the film is filled with loneliness
link |
00:28:11.440
and it's not until the second and last scene
link |
00:28:14.360
when he's at the train station, Del, what are you doing here?
link |
00:28:19.360
You thought I thought you were going home,
link |
00:28:20.600
what are you doing here?
link |
00:28:22.720
That's a very good Neil page from the movie.
link |
00:28:26.040
Thank you.
link |
00:28:27.880
That's when you realize how lonely he is.
link |
00:28:29.200
Go ahead and pause and post, yeah.
link |
00:28:30.880
Cheers.
link |
00:28:31.720
That's when you realize how lonely he is.
link |
00:28:33.040
And I think that's the element from the film
link |
00:28:34.760
that, I mean, look, you know, nowadays,
link |
00:28:37.800
I feel like I've been saying this for a long time,
link |
00:28:40.240
but John Candy would have won an Academy Award
link |
00:28:42.760
hands down for that film.
link |
00:28:45.000
It's just they didn't do that with comedies back then.
link |
00:28:47.600
Yeah.
link |
00:28:48.440
Until the year after that movie came out
link |
00:28:49.560
with Fish Called Wanda.
link |
00:28:50.760
Yeah.
link |
00:28:51.600
And then it's, I mean, still comedies don't get respected
link |
00:28:54.040
enough, Robert Williams, he got,
link |
00:28:56.280
I guess he got an Oscar for good hunting.
link |
00:28:59.880
Jim Carrey, did he ever get an Oscar?
link |
00:29:03.400
I don't know, I don't believe so.
link |
00:29:04.960
Yeah, they don't get, you don't,
link |
00:29:08.280
but that's not even, if he did, you wouldn't be for comedies.
link |
00:29:11.720
It's just, I mean, there's some things that are
link |
00:29:16.600
plain strange and ordinary, would you even put that as a,
link |
00:29:19.120
I guess it's a comedy.
link |
00:29:20.120
Yeah, I mean.
link |
00:29:20.960
But there is a loneliness and depth
link |
00:29:23.680
that permeates the whole movie.
link |
00:29:25.040
Yeah.
link |
00:29:25.880
That ultimately, and it's a happy ending,
link |
00:29:27.560
which is hard to kinda.
link |
00:29:29.640
It's a happy ending only because in the last movie,
link |
00:29:33.240
moment of the movie, John Candy puts on a brave face,
link |
00:29:39.920
even when he's got no one,
link |
00:29:43.480
and he's there seeing Neil Page's entire family
link |
00:29:46.560
on Thanksgiving, and he forces a smile,
link |
00:29:49.480
which is literally the last frame of the movie.
link |
00:29:52.400
And I've said before, if you're not reduced
link |
00:29:54.280
to just a sobbing pile of meat at the end of the movie,
link |
00:29:58.680
then you are not human.
link |
00:29:59.840
Yeah, it is a happy ending.
link |
00:30:04.360
It's a happy ending, even though it's a sad, sad character.
link |
00:30:08.360
So much loneliness in the world.
link |
00:30:10.680
I was just in Vegas.
link |
00:30:12.520
I went to diner at like 4 a.m., 5 a.m.,
link |
00:30:15.880
and there's a waitress as empty as a waitress.
link |
00:30:18.880
That was the sweetest, kindest human being.
link |
00:30:21.200
Kept calling me sweetheart and all that kind of stuff, hun.
link |
00:30:25.720
And then after I ate, she said,
link |
00:30:28.120
darling, just talk to me a little bit.
link |
00:30:30.360
Cause there was nobody there,
link |
00:30:31.800
and it was just so much sadness in her eyes.
link |
00:30:35.040
I don't know, but it's also so much love,
link |
00:30:36.800
like that sweetheart, that, I mean,
link |
00:30:39.480
it reminded me kind of the John Candy performance,
link |
00:30:43.800
because at first, because I was like reading
link |
00:30:47.760
a pretty dark book about Hitler.
link |
00:30:53.120
So I was a little bit frustrated
link |
00:30:54.880
that she kept talking to me,
link |
00:30:56.680
cause it was like, it was, it was almost like,
link |
00:30:59.520
the same way that John Candy is,
link |
00:31:01.080
it's annoying a little bit, right?
link |
00:31:02.720
But then very quickly, I opened up to like,
link |
00:31:04.840
well, there's a, there's a kind human being,
link |
00:31:07.680
and there's like that human connection superseded
link |
00:31:10.160
everything else.
link |
00:31:11.000
And I don't know, it was just beautiful.
link |
00:31:12.120
And I think John Candy captures that really well,
link |
00:31:16.400
which is like the connection with other human beings.
link |
00:31:19.600
Sometimes we pull away from that
link |
00:31:22.680
because we have a busy life full of stuff to do
link |
00:31:27.800
as Steve Martin's character, kind of characterized.
link |
00:31:31.000
He's like a marketing exec or something like that.
link |
00:31:33.440
But if you just pause and notice others,
link |
00:31:36.960
you can really discover beautiful people.
link |
00:31:39.880
Totally, totally.
link |
00:31:40.920
Everyone's got, well, I mean, everyone's got their story.
link |
00:31:44.040
And, you know, Candy is a person, I've never met the man,
link |
00:31:49.040
but he's the kind of guy that, you know,
link |
00:31:53.960
he could just walk up to, back in the day,
link |
00:31:56.600
I would imagine he could walk up to just about any house,
link |
00:31:59.040
at least in Canada, knock on the door
link |
00:32:01.240
and you'd invite him in for dinner, you know what I mean?
link |
00:32:04.160
So, yeah, it's a, that, you know,
link |
00:32:08.240
as you're talking about, you know, putting a book down
link |
00:32:11.520
and talking to someone for a while,
link |
00:32:12.880
even though you'd really like to read your book,
link |
00:32:15.160
it's like, it's that sort of thing that Candy's character
link |
00:32:18.880
in the movie sort of does that, like Johnny Appleseed.
link |
00:32:22.200
Just, you realize he's just going around
link |
00:32:23.840
making people smile, you know?
link |
00:32:26.520
And Neil Page is hanging with this guy, so frustrated.
link |
00:32:30.400
He's just, he's so exhausting
link |
00:32:32.600
and his big underwear in the sink at the hotel and everything.
link |
00:32:35.960
And by the end of it, he loves this guy, you know?
link |
00:32:39.480
So, it's a good and a bad thing that you didn't take
link |
00:32:43.320
that waitress with you on a trip,
link |
00:32:45.120
maybe road trip up to Reno.
link |
00:32:47.320
Oh, oh, she's actually, she's out shopping right now.
link |
00:32:50.520
We're, we've been having sex multiple times a day ever since.
link |
00:32:54.560
Oh, that's nice.
link |
00:32:55.400
That's lovely.
link |
00:32:56.240
How cute.
link |
00:32:57.080
I think I'm sure she's married and happily
link |
00:32:59.040
and has many grandchildren.
link |
00:33:00.880
Okay.
link |
00:33:02.840
And plus that movie's on Thanksgiving, I think, right?
link |
00:33:06.120
Yeah, that's right.
link |
00:33:06.960
Thanksgiving, so like Thanksgiving just embodies that
link |
00:33:09.960
forget about the busyness and the whatever the career
link |
00:33:14.520
you're chasing in life and just take a pause
link |
00:33:17.120
and appreciate the people you love in life.
link |
00:33:18.640
Just be with your family, yeah.
link |
00:33:19.760
Or the people, whatever your family looks like.
link |
00:33:21.720
Friends, yeah.
link |
00:33:23.360
You have some weird friends, unorthodox friends.
link |
00:33:26.840
So, at least in the public sphere.
link |
00:33:29.720
Oh, yeah.
link |
00:33:30.560
From Bob Lee, Brian Cowan, all those kinds of folks
link |
00:33:33.360
from the Mad TV days, I'm sure there's others.
link |
00:33:36.240
What does it mean to be a good friend?
link |
00:33:38.240
Here in LA or just in the world.
link |
00:33:40.240
Just in the world.
link |
00:33:41.080
In the world, in the world.
link |
00:33:42.160
Will Sasse, a world friend.
link |
00:33:44.320
I think it is different here.
link |
00:33:45.840
I think it is.
link |
00:33:46.680
If there's a little bit of a career kind of negotiation,
link |
00:33:49.800
shuffling around, that kind of stuff, why is it different?
link |
00:33:52.880
Well, I just mean that it's just kind of hard here
link |
00:33:57.960
to make time for everybody.
link |
00:34:02.760
It's always been a city to me that is like,
link |
00:34:04.600
we'll keep you so busy.
link |
00:34:06.120
And every time I go home to Vancouver,
link |
00:34:08.240
after a few days, I start to get a little stir crazy.
link |
00:34:11.200
And I think that being here in LA,
link |
00:34:15.160
I go to sleep with 100 things that I still have to do.
link |
00:34:17.880
And you're never out of stuff to do.
link |
00:34:20.480
And when you ask about your nuts or whatever, if you're crazy,
link |
00:34:26.120
I mean, look, all the weirdest people
link |
00:34:29.240
from every high school in the United States
link |
00:34:31.280
is like, oh, I'm going to make it in LA.
link |
00:34:33.760
Everyone just comes here.
link |
00:34:35.360
And just another freak in the Freak Kingdom,
link |
00:34:38.840
as they say at the end of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.
link |
00:34:41.480
That was a very good Robin Williams impersonation.
link |
00:34:43.520
That was my Robin Williams as Johnny Depp as Hunter S. Thompson.
link |
00:34:47.240
Yeah.
link |
00:34:47.800
It's not your fault, Will.
link |
00:34:49.520
It's pretty good.
link |
00:34:50.120
Thank you.
link |
00:34:50.640
Could have been you, Fear and Loathing.
link |
00:34:52.920
And Fear and Loathing?
link |
00:34:53.720
Yeah, it'd be interesting.
link |
00:34:54.640
I would have liked to play his attorney, the role that Benisha
link |
00:34:58.960
del Toro gained weight for.
link |
00:35:00.520
That would have been cool.
link |
00:35:01.560
He's just saying, what?
link |
00:35:03.080
Don't go over the line.
link |
00:35:04.560
Like chewing his face off.
link |
00:35:05.880
I could have done that.
link |
00:35:09.880
Yeah, no, I think that it's backdoor beauty.
link |
00:35:12.320
That guy is full of good lines.
link |
00:35:14.520
Yeah, it's the beauty for real.
link |
00:35:18.160
He's a good actor.
link |
00:35:19.160
Yeah, fantastic actor.
link |
00:35:20.640
I think what it takes to be a good friend is just presence,
link |
00:35:25.320
just being there.
link |
00:35:26.480
I mean, that's all anyone needs to be heard, right?
link |
00:35:29.720
In LA, it is interesting.
link |
00:35:33.520
I haven't seen people that I love in years, some people.
link |
00:35:37.680
Just busy.
link |
00:35:38.560
Yeah, just busy.
link |
00:35:39.040
You still have a depth of connection, even though one
link |
00:35:43.920
of the reasons I really enjoy doing a podcast,
link |
00:35:45.680
you get to sit down with actual friends of yours
link |
00:35:49.440
and spend prolonged periods of time together
link |
00:35:51.480
that you don't otherwise.
link |
00:35:52.920
That's a good point.
link |
00:35:53.760
I've spoken on his podcast to people really close to me.
link |
00:35:56.840
And it's like, you've never had a conversation
link |
00:35:59.200
without microphones, like you do with microphones.
link |
00:36:01.480
It's weird.
link |
00:36:02.400
But there's some aspect about LA that a lot of the,
link |
00:36:06.440
especially friends of yours, comedians, and so on,
link |
00:36:09.080
they'll do podcasts and stuff.
link |
00:36:10.640
And there's an intimacy to that.
link |
00:36:13.240
Yeah, there is and there isn't.
link |
00:36:15.160
The ones that I do, I mean, I just
link |
00:36:17.280
did Bobby Lee and Andrew Santino's
link |
00:36:20.040
funny enough called Bad Friends.
link |
00:36:22.000
Bad Friends.
link |
00:36:23.280
And afterwards, and my good pal Chad Colchin,
link |
00:36:26.800
with whom I do doodzy, was with me.
link |
00:36:29.960
Sneakers are coming soon.
link |
00:36:31.440
Sneakers are coming soon.
link |
00:36:32.600
You get your will foot and your Chad foot
link |
00:36:34.440
comes in a size 15 and a nine and a half.
link |
00:36:38.520
And I remember afterwards we were talking.
link |
00:36:40.400
It was just basically me, Chad, and Santino were talking.
link |
00:36:43.920
And Bobby was over there on his phone.
link |
00:36:46.920
And then I was like, I mean, we didn't spend any time
link |
00:36:50.920
talking about anything.
link |
00:36:53.040
It feels like one of those hours that goes by and you realize,
link |
00:36:56.520
I've just been goofing around with these guys, which
link |
00:36:58.520
But that's what life is about, right?
link |
00:36:59.880
That's fine.
link |
00:37:00.400
It's great.
link |
00:37:01.240
And then I'm like, all right, Bobby.
link |
00:37:02.400
Hey, Bob, I'll see you later.
link |
00:37:03.920
And he's like, like this, I'm like, all right, man.
link |
00:37:07.120
Hey, love you, bro.
link |
00:37:08.120
See you later.
link |
00:37:08.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
link |
00:37:10.400
He's a guy.
link |
00:37:10.960
Do you ever just, I just send text messages over there
link |
00:37:14.720
to him that never come back.
link |
00:37:17.040
And then he thinks that I'm angry with him,
link |
00:37:19.600
because it's been, it'll go two, three years without him
link |
00:37:23.000
getting back to me.
link |
00:37:24.160
And then just out of nowhere, hey, fuckface.
link |
00:37:27.880
Who says hey, fuckface?
link |
00:37:28.880
He does or you do?
link |
00:37:29.800
Or you both talk to each other?
link |
00:37:30.840
No, I got to be very careful, Bobby.
link |
00:37:33.520
Yeah, I got to be very sweet.
link |
00:37:35.240
Dear friend.
link |
00:37:36.200
Dear friend.
link |
00:37:36.760
Hello.
link |
00:37:37.000
How are you doing?
link |
00:37:37.920
How are you?
link |
00:37:38.440
I know I checked in with you, but not but three months ago.
link |
00:37:43.160
And then every once in a while, he'll go, hey, fuckface.
link |
00:37:45.120
I tend to hide from the world.
link |
00:37:46.680
And I can be pretty shady with friends.
link |
00:37:49.760
Yeah.
link |
00:37:50.280
Yeah.
link |
00:37:51.080
I can empathize with Bobby.
link |
00:37:53.560
It might be a Skyrim thing.
link |
00:37:56.040
It might be like hiding in a world, in a digital world
link |
00:37:59.200
with fake NPCs.
link |
00:38:01.360
Yeah, yeah, there's that.
link |
00:38:03.200
Yeah.
link |
00:38:05.160
Yeah, I have a buddy who said something really smart.
link |
00:38:09.240
A while ago, we ended up working together
link |
00:38:11.520
on this TV show thing.
link |
00:38:13.440
And I reached out to him to see if he wanted to do it with us.
link |
00:38:16.320
And he did.
link |
00:38:17.880
And he goes, this is a great guy, such a funny writer.
link |
00:38:21.800
He goes, I may not be in touch all the time,
link |
00:38:23.720
but I know who my friends are.
link |
00:38:25.280
You know what I mean?
link |
00:38:26.120
And it's like in our business, and this
link |
00:38:28.320
is a fellow who moved, who's from Ontario, Canada,
link |
00:38:32.720
moved back there.
link |
00:38:33.920
He's on the farm with his wife and kids.
link |
00:38:35.560
And he does not care.
link |
00:38:36.960
He's never been a Hollywood guy.
link |
00:38:38.760
And it's tough to get old of him.
link |
00:38:41.520
But when you do, he's still the same sweet old guy.
link |
00:38:44.920
He's doing his thing, though.
link |
00:38:46.280
Yeah, yeah, some of my closest friends, even if we
link |
00:38:48.200
don't talk for a few months, we'll write back at it if we do.
link |
00:38:51.680
And then if shit goes like, if something really traumatic
link |
00:38:54.600
happens or difficult stuff or any of that kind of stuff,
link |
00:38:57.840
I'm almost there.
link |
00:38:58.720
So for important stuff, for important highs,
link |
00:39:02.680
and important lows, you're there.
link |
00:39:03.920
Yeah.
link |
00:39:04.400
And then you pick right back up, especially
link |
00:39:06.160
if you have those years of experiences together.
link |
00:39:09.040
It's interesting.
link |
00:39:09.760
Totally.
link |
00:39:10.960
So you've done a couple of podcasts.
link |
00:39:13.000
Yeah.
link |
00:39:13.560
Done.
link |
00:39:13.840
So we've got to talk about Dudesie a little bit.
link |
00:39:16.440
But first, you did for several years,
link |
00:39:19.000
you did the 10 minute podcast.
link |
00:39:20.360
Yeah.
link |
00:39:22.800
I mean, everything is hilarious about that podcast,
link |
00:39:24.760
including the fact that it's 10 minutes.
link |
00:39:26.880
Right.
link |
00:39:27.160
I mean, it's ridiculous.
link |
00:39:29.000
It's absurd.
link |
00:39:30.480
The dynamic is hilarious.
link |
00:39:31.840
It's you, Brian Callan, Crystalia.
link |
00:39:34.600
I don't know exactly why it works so well,
link |
00:39:38.160
but it did.
link |
00:39:38.760
It worked really well.
link |
00:39:39.760
I think it's because the, yeah, you were having fun,
link |
00:39:42.640
probably.
link |
00:39:43.280
I mean, that's what really came through,
link |
00:39:46.920
that it was friends just talking shit and the tension,
link |
00:39:50.480
the beautiful tension, and the absurdity they came out.
link |
00:39:53.080
Yeah.
link |
00:39:53.840
What?
link |
00:39:54.320
Sure.
link |
00:39:55.560
What was the story of making that podcast?
link |
00:39:57.920
How did that came to be?
link |
00:39:59.680
Why do you think it was as good as it was?
link |
00:40:01.880
I don't know.
link |
00:40:02.320
I feel like that podcast was like,
link |
00:40:04.840
it was who we kind of are, but on steroids or something.
link |
00:40:11.920
Like each person, Brian's going to be like extra manly and.
link |
00:40:19.040
Can you get any more manly than he already is?
link |
00:40:21.280
No.
link |
00:40:21.800
It's very different.
link |
00:40:22.840
He reaches, though.
link |
00:40:24.760
And yeah, we just kind of, I feel like as goofballs,
link |
00:40:29.200
we knew each other's line.
link |
00:40:31.120
Like here's the line you don't cross.
link |
00:40:33.240
I feel like those guys don't really have one,
link |
00:40:35.560
but at least they knew mine.
link |
00:40:37.800
And yeah, we were able to just goof around.
link |
00:40:41.920
And I did it with them for three years.
link |
00:40:45.440
And then Chad, who I'm doing Dudezy with,
link |
00:40:48.240
and my pal Tommy Blacho, who's another writer, producer,
link |
00:40:51.920
like Chad, they came on.
link |
00:40:53.760
And yeah, all told, I did like seven years of that thing.
link |
00:40:58.720
Six, five, six, seven, I don't remember.
link |
00:41:02.760
Do you think it ever comes back in some small form
link |
00:41:06.120
as a 20 minute podcast or something like that?
link |
00:41:09.440
I mean, is there, because it's one of the most requested.
link |
00:41:12.400
I mean, you have a huge fan base.
link |
00:41:15.080
I'm 47 years old.
link |
00:41:16.640
So I am of the generation that had a cell phone,
link |
00:41:21.160
has had a cell phone half the time,
link |
00:41:23.760
and didn't for the formative years of my life
link |
00:41:26.360
into my early 20s.
link |
00:41:29.800
And then finally, I got a cell phone,
link |
00:41:31.920
I guess I was like 19 or something,
link |
00:41:33.560
literally just because of moving to LA.
link |
00:41:35.160
You got porn in the mail.
link |
00:41:37.080
Yes, that's right.
link |
00:41:37.840
It was the hard cover porn.
link |
00:41:40.120
That's the way we liked it.
link |
00:41:42.080
Bound, nice binding on the porn, leather cover.
link |
00:41:46.760
Next to the Bible, yeah.
link |
00:41:48.080
Yep, these are all my, these are my Encyclopedia Britannica.
link |
00:41:52.520
Wow, very impressive.
link |
00:41:53.840
Yes, a man came to the house and sold me these.
link |
00:41:56.200
And then down here, these are my,
link |
00:41:57.920
this is my pornography.
link |
00:42:00.080
If you'll follow me through here to the parlor room, sir.
link |
00:42:04.680
Passed through the generations from grandfather to father.
link |
00:42:07.640
Yeah, I want to give you something very special
link |
00:42:09.920
to me, Nebuchadnezzar.
link |
00:42:14.320
So you go up in the generation without a cell phone.
link |
00:42:15.840
Yes, it's hard for me to connect with people who hit me up.
link |
00:42:22.040
I look at everything as polling.
link |
00:42:23.720
So if one person hits me up
link |
00:42:25.560
and shares this opinion, but two other people hit me up
link |
00:42:27.960
and share that, I'm the worst.
link |
00:42:30.360
I don't follow my polls.
link |
00:42:32.120
When people say, oh, that poll means absolutely nothing.
link |
00:42:35.680
So and so is going to win anyway.
link |
00:42:37.560
That's my poll.
link |
00:42:38.880
My poll means nothing.
link |
00:42:39.920
But I do look at the stuff and go,
link |
00:42:42.680
this many people are saying this,
link |
00:42:44.360
that means that that number is saying that.
link |
00:42:47.320
And yet it's very hard for me to hear
link |
00:42:51.320
what the hell people are saying online.
link |
00:42:53.680
I really, I can't connect to it sometimes personally.
link |
00:42:56.760
So when you say that that's a popular podcast,
link |
00:42:59.880
like I know that it's popular
link |
00:43:02.120
with the people that have expressed that they love it.
link |
00:43:04.640
You know what I mean?
link |
00:43:05.480
What does that actually represent?
link |
00:43:07.120
I don't know.
link |
00:43:07.960
I don't know what kind of people are the audience.
link |
00:43:09.920
I don't know.
link |
00:43:10.760
I know that the people that listen to Determinative Podcast
link |
00:43:13.080
and if you did, thank you, and we're friends.
link |
00:43:17.920
I know that it was a special thing
link |
00:43:19.960
because it's like, just doing this out of my house
link |
00:43:22.000
and we just built it up out of nowhere
link |
00:43:24.120
and we're just kind of clowning around.
link |
00:43:26.200
It's an odd thing.
link |
00:43:27.600
I hope, I think I speak for the two people
link |
00:43:32.000
that have reached out to you that said you should do it
link |
00:43:34.080
or whatever, three people.
link |
00:43:35.280
The poll that you should bring it back at some point.
link |
00:43:38.440
That would be beautiful.
link |
00:43:39.280
Oh my God.
link |
00:43:40.120
It's like, what's a good story of like a famous band
link |
00:43:45.040
that came back and was successful?
link |
00:43:46.680
Probably, well.
link |
00:43:47.520
Nirvana?
link |
00:43:48.360
No, it wasn't Nirvana.
link |
00:43:51.520
Sorry, I got Nirvana mixed up with Aerosmith.
link |
00:43:54.280
Yeah.
link |
00:43:55.120
It was Aerosmith.
link |
00:43:55.960
It was Aerosmith.
link |
00:43:56.800
Yeah, they had that second ride.
link |
00:43:58.040
Different.
link |
00:43:58.880
Yeah, totally different ending of those two bands.
link |
00:44:01.760
One ended up on American Idol.
link |
00:44:04.800
Yeah.
link |
00:44:06.120
A lot of interesting women involved in that one too.
link |
00:44:08.960
All right.
link |
00:44:11.160
How did Dudezy come to be?
link |
00:44:12.760
Dudezy.
link |
00:44:13.600
And what the hell is Dudezy?
link |
00:44:14.560
Dudezy is the first podcast
link |
00:44:16.320
and this is exciting that you've asked me to come here today
link |
00:44:19.360
because to hear what you would have to say about it
link |
00:44:22.280
or what you would ask about it,
link |
00:44:23.360
it is the first podcast that is run completely by
link |
00:44:27.000
and essentially, I like to say curated by an AI.
link |
00:44:32.120
We were approached by a company
link |
00:44:33.680
that had this proprietary AI
link |
00:44:35.440
that wants to develop the podcast into the future
link |
00:44:38.200
and figure out exactly what it takes
link |
00:44:40.720
to make the best podcast ever.
link |
00:44:42.840
And it was all we knew from the top
link |
00:44:47.840
and what they really wanted was two people
link |
00:44:49.680
who were actually friends
link |
00:44:51.720
and could be meaningful in the podcast space
link |
00:44:54.960
based on whatever information they had.
link |
00:44:56.880
Is the company CIA
link |
00:44:58.120
and are they testing technology
link |
00:45:00.000
to control the populace through chatbots?
link |
00:45:02.560
I'm sorry, I'm not at liberty to share that information.
link |
00:45:05.120
You are, yeah, who gave you the suit?
link |
00:45:07.400
Where did you get the suit?
link |
00:45:09.120
Where did you get the suit, Will?
link |
00:45:10.400
Yeah, well, this is...
link |
00:45:11.240
This is J.C. Penny.
link |
00:45:12.080
CIA stands for something different in here.
link |
00:45:14.200
I mean, you know, it doesn't mean like
link |
00:45:15.720
the Central Intelligence Agency,
link |
00:45:18.000
and probably it's just...
link |
00:45:18.840
It's a different...
link |
00:45:19.680
Yeah, it's a...
link |
00:45:20.640
Canadian information...
link |
00:45:22.120
Canadian international apparel.
link |
00:45:24.400
Yeah, the Canadian international apparel company
link |
00:45:26.320
hit us up, Chad and I.
link |
00:45:29.640
Well, Chad's a super weirdo.
link |
00:45:31.400
You would get a kick out of him, I know.
link |
00:45:32.880
You guys, you strike me as very similar in some ways.
link |
00:45:36.440
I'll take that as a compliment, by the way.
link |
00:45:37.640
It is, and it is.
link |
00:45:39.880
And it is.
link |
00:45:40.720
And if I was friends with you
link |
00:45:41.960
for as long as I've been with Chad,
link |
00:45:43.320
perhaps I'd have some horrible shit to say about you.
link |
00:45:45.360
But the good parts, you remind me of him.
link |
00:45:48.680
And we were approached by this company
link |
00:45:50.640
that said, we have this AI,
link |
00:45:52.400
and we would like to set it loose on you.
link |
00:45:55.640
And essentially, we had to hand over some information
link |
00:46:00.960
that would allow the AI to access our email
link |
00:46:04.880
and look at our search histories, purchase histories,
link |
00:46:07.760
things like this, and really dig into...
link |
00:46:10.960
Pornhub included, or not?
link |
00:46:12.040
Pornhub, yeah, I had to hand over all my leatherbound
link |
00:46:16.320
1970s pornography.
link |
00:46:19.360
And essentially, it curates a podcast for us every week,
link |
00:46:22.880
doing dumb things like, it says,
link |
00:46:25.960
hey, Will, you do some shitty Hulk Hogan impersonation.
link |
00:46:29.880
Podcasts about news are very popular.
link |
00:46:32.040
This is Infomania, you know what I mean?
link |
00:46:34.720
Oh, let me tell you something about that
link |
00:46:35.960
Marjorie Taylor Green dude,
link |
00:46:37.200
and then he's going on doing some new stuff.
link |
00:46:39.440
And it basically just spits out all these things
link |
00:46:42.400
that it wants us to do,
link |
00:46:43.360
normally four segments in episode,
link |
00:46:45.920
and that's pretty much it.
link |
00:46:47.040
It just tells us what to do.
link |
00:46:48.360
It generates the premise.
link |
00:46:49.800
I mean, you've spoken a bit here and there.
link |
00:46:53.520
Like I said, I'm a huge fan.
link |
00:46:54.560
I don't even remember where,
link |
00:46:55.520
but you talked about that you enjoy Dudezy
link |
00:46:59.160
because you feel almost liberated to...
link |
00:47:04.240
Because you're operating within the constraints
link |
00:47:06.880
of the premise it generates.
link |
00:47:08.480
So you're almost not,
link |
00:47:11.200
you're free to riff, essentially.
link |
00:47:14.320
Yeah, like you don't need to do the job
link |
00:47:16.720
of like coming up with the weird.
link |
00:47:19.800
You can just, the weird is given to you
link |
00:47:21.720
and then you just run with it.
link |
00:47:23.240
That's a good way to say it
link |
00:47:24.440
because we're already weird, Chad and I.
link |
00:47:26.800
Chad can talk for days about all sorts of stuff.
link |
00:47:29.560
He's particularly interested in AI lately
link |
00:47:31.720
and its effect on art.
link |
00:47:32.920
He is a writer, books, movies and TV shows.
link |
00:47:36.240
And I'm primarily acting and trying to come up with stuff.
link |
00:47:40.840
Stuff I write with Chad's pretty good.
link |
00:47:42.480
The rest of it hasn't seen much success.
link |
00:47:44.040
Anyway, Nora's the stuff with Chad for that matter.
link |
00:47:47.320
But that's because of me.
link |
00:47:49.640
Sneakers, do you never know?
link |
00:47:51.440
Oh, I can't wait for these sneakers.
link |
00:47:53.080
Only in two sizes.
link |
00:47:54.160
Yeah, only in two sizes.
link |
00:47:55.240
You're gonna be able to take the tongue.
link |
00:47:57.840
You can't take it out
link |
00:47:58.880
because it's actually stitched in.
link |
00:48:00.360
Yeah.
link |
00:48:01.200
It's pretty cool stuff.
link |
00:48:03.040
Velcro or... Yeah, Velcro.
link |
00:48:06.880
Velcro up the side.
link |
00:48:07.920
We're doing some like brand new Kanye stuff.
link |
00:48:10.920
Yeah, we want things to look like
link |
00:48:12.720
this is what you'll be wearing on Mars when you get there.
link |
00:48:15.760
So Nike's doing a bunch of research for running
link |
00:48:18.920
how to make a super light shoe
link |
00:48:20.280
that you can be efficient in
link |
00:48:21.520
and break all kinds of running records.
link |
00:48:23.120
So you're doing the same kind of stuff.
link |
00:48:24.480
We're doing the same kind of thing for the podcasting space.
link |
00:48:26.520
The best kind of shoes to sit around
link |
00:48:27.800
and talk to your pal in.
link |
00:48:29.560
But yeah, so this, yeah, it's bizarre.
link |
00:48:33.080
And it also does some writing.
link |
00:48:34.400
Dudezy does come up with things,
link |
00:48:36.560
but not unlike what we're seeing in AI art now.
link |
00:48:40.680
It's a little bit foggy.
link |
00:48:41.640
It's a little bit weird, but it is improving.
link |
00:48:44.480
It is learning about us and writing stuff
link |
00:48:47.600
when it makes me spit this and that,
link |
00:48:49.800
which we'll read, you know,
link |
00:48:52.000
I've prepared these things for you to read.
link |
00:48:54.840
It's impossible not to get a kick out of it
link |
00:48:57.480
because Chad and I are, first of all, we're blown away
link |
00:48:59.840
that we're doing this.
link |
00:49:01.640
And second of all, some of the stuff is actually very funny.
link |
00:49:04.520
It makes weird names.
link |
00:49:06.360
Like, I don't think it understands,
link |
00:49:10.240
it messes up some words and stuff,
link |
00:49:11.840
but that makes it even funnier.
link |
00:49:13.160
And then it sort of, from the beginning,
link |
00:49:15.960
started laying on, like it says astonishing all the time.
link |
00:49:19.880
Everything is astonishing.
link |
00:49:22.080
That's Dudezy's favorite word.
link |
00:49:23.840
But yeah, it's basically just a way to frame the podcast.
link |
00:49:30.080
You know what I mean?
link |
00:49:30.920
Because my thing is, I don't want to do this.
link |
00:49:34.760
We're actually have to talk to someone.
link |
00:49:36.680
You seem to feel a burden of the long form conversation.
link |
00:49:42.160
It seems like, is that really hard work for you?
link |
00:49:45.040
No, not at all.
link |
00:49:45.880
It's just that I don't like to bore people.
link |
00:49:47.440
And I feel like if I go on and I like to provide value
link |
00:49:51.600
for who, for what I am, you know,
link |
00:49:54.560
your value with regard to this project
link |
00:49:57.840
is obviously warranted, it's obviously.
link |
00:50:01.280
I'm waiting for the explanation
link |
00:50:02.680
for what the value is exactly.
link |
00:50:04.520
Two dudes in a suit.
link |
00:50:05.640
No, listen, yeah, two dudes in a suit.
link |
00:50:07.880
No, but I mean, you've got your audience
link |
00:50:10.080
and that's the end of that.
link |
00:50:11.280
People find value in it.
link |
00:50:12.760
For me, I do feel like I'm,
link |
00:50:17.520
it is important that I,
link |
00:50:20.240
if I'm going to do something that, you know,
link |
00:50:23.400
is going to be funny or that I hope is funny,
link |
00:50:26.840
I just kind of want to get in and out of someone's day
link |
00:50:30.840
and just kind of, I like making, I like making laughy.
link |
00:50:34.320
I want people to, you know, whatever.
link |
00:50:36.280
It's the same thing that anyone else will tell you.
link |
00:50:38.160
Yeah, but in the long form, you feel the anxiety.
link |
00:50:40.400
You did a few funny things
link |
00:50:42.160
and I wonder if I can keep doing the funny thing.
link |
00:50:44.400
Is that why you're, you feel that,
link |
00:50:46.880
like why is doozy relieving you of some of the anxiety?
link |
00:50:52.080
Well, in some ways it gives me anxiety
link |
00:50:54.040
because I don't know what's coming.
link |
00:50:56.320
And that's weird for me
link |
00:50:57.640
because I like to prepare for things.
link |
00:51:01.400
But it's, that's not what podcasting is.
link |
00:51:04.360
Podcasting, you need to just be malleable
link |
00:51:07.000
and say whatever and do whatever.
link |
00:51:10.160
And that's what makes it a real,
link |
00:51:13.800
I mean, it's, look, it's a medium for conversation.
link |
00:51:16.200
And if you're driving along listening to this
link |
00:51:19.040
or anything else, you're, you know,
link |
00:51:21.200
it is that it's the,
link |
00:51:23.080
it's the true meaning of the parasocial relationship
link |
00:51:25.080
because the best podcasts just make you feel like
link |
00:51:27.400
you're sitting around rapping.
link |
00:51:29.080
We're just having a conversation.
link |
00:51:30.600
You could even be sitting there,
link |
00:51:31.600
agreeing or talking out loud to yourself if you want.
link |
00:51:34.200
You could just be sitting in silence.
link |
00:51:35.480
Or you could just be sitting in silence
link |
00:51:36.880
in your fancy podcasting shoes, podcasting audience shoes.
link |
00:51:40.960
It's a very different build than running shoes.
link |
00:51:43.840
Would they be also called doozy, the shoes?
link |
00:51:45.960
Yeah, they'll be doozy shoes.
link |
00:51:47.840
Doozy shoes.
link |
00:51:48.680
That's very creative.
link |
00:51:49.520
Yeah.
link |
00:51:50.760
Well, one thing the AI isn't good at yet is branding.
link |
00:51:54.160
Everything is just doozy this and that.
link |
00:51:55.760
I would argue that's pretty good branding.
link |
00:51:57.640
I don't know.
link |
00:51:58.480
Well, doozy allows me to just,
link |
00:52:00.480
it forces me to sit down with Chad
link |
00:52:03.720
and goof around for an hour or an hour plus.
link |
00:52:07.760
And, and it provides the parameters
link |
00:52:11.080
that I a lot of times ignore because I'm,
link |
00:52:14.360
I think that podcasting is just two dudes
link |
00:52:16.320
shitting around or three or four.
link |
00:52:18.360
But it sits me down and gives me a premise
link |
00:52:23.840
to work with.
link |
00:52:25.080
And then you just riff with it.
link |
00:52:26.320
Yeah.
link |
00:52:27.160
It's fun.
link |
00:52:27.980
It's been a hoot.
link |
00:52:29.240
So from the acting perspective,
link |
00:52:32.280
you know, a lot of people like Daniel Day Lewis
link |
00:52:34.160
will see acting just like as you described,
link |
00:52:36.880
which is you have your roles,
link |
00:52:39.000
you embrace those roles and then you disappear.
link |
00:52:40.840
You don't, you don't, you don't do podcasts.
link |
00:52:44.160
You don't do any of that kind of stuff.
link |
00:52:45.960
Your art is your art.
link |
00:52:47.640
So is that, is that part of you feels that way?
link |
00:52:51.560
I think so.
link |
00:52:53.200
Is that the actor side of you?
link |
00:52:54.400
Yeah.
link |
00:52:55.360
Anytime I get to do something that I don't get a chance
link |
00:52:58.760
to do much of or something that people haven't seen me do
link |
00:53:02.440
much of or that I've done on some scale
link |
00:53:04.720
that hasn't been very wide
link |
00:53:06.360
and not a lot of people have seen it.
link |
00:53:08.040
That's the stuff that I get really excited about.
link |
00:53:10.440
I don't know why I'm,
link |
00:53:14.840
I don't know why, I don't know why necessarily
link |
00:53:17.480
I haven't answered that question yet in my life,
link |
00:53:19.160
like what it is about being an actor
link |
00:53:21.840
that I love so much because it's not like I don't like to,
link |
00:53:25.320
it's not like I'm trying to get away from myself
link |
00:53:27.280
and play other characters and stuff and not be myself.
link |
00:53:31.560
But it is, it has always been fun to,
link |
00:53:34.600
to just be other people and escape.
link |
00:53:37.800
Yeah. Is there some aspect to the impressions
link |
00:53:39.800
where you become that person?
link |
00:53:42.920
Is that like, what's that like to,
link |
00:53:46.000
I suppose acting is a full on version of that.
link |
00:53:48.920
You've really at its best become the character.
link |
00:53:54.120
Is there some fun in that?
link |
00:53:55.840
Yeah, absolutely.
link |
00:53:57.000
If you can play a character for long enough
link |
00:54:01.160
and then jump out of it, that's a lot of fun.
link |
00:54:05.720
Like I did this movie like four or five years ago
link |
00:54:08.680
called the inside game about the NBA gambling scandal
link |
00:54:12.680
that there's a Netflix documentary about it right now.
link |
00:54:15.920
And that character, I played Jimmy Batista,
link |
00:54:21.760
Baba the sheep, who's, you know,
link |
00:54:25.120
this guy was this bookie and rah rah rah and it's a very,
link |
00:54:28.720
he's, there's a lot going on with him.
link |
00:54:30.960
He's, you know, he's running numbers with the mob and stuff
link |
00:54:34.480
and there's a lot of money changing hands.
link |
00:54:36.720
That character was so, I got to be,
link |
00:54:39.560
get so deep into that character
link |
00:54:41.160
that coming out of it was, was a little odd.
link |
00:54:43.840
Or as weird as this sounds, the Three Stooges was hard for me
link |
00:54:48.160
to, I found that I had some of Curly's mannerisms
link |
00:54:53.000
just automatically I could not stop them.
link |
00:54:55.960
When people, when I would talk to people, they would,
link |
00:54:58.640
they would come out, I wasn't, I'm not doing it on purpose.
link |
00:55:01.520
I don't want to do that.
link |
00:55:02.360
Like I'm ready to shed it.
link |
00:55:04.520
Cause I've been working on it for months and months
link |
00:55:08.280
at that point, as far as getting the thing down
link |
00:55:10.600
and then you, then you got to shoot.
link |
00:55:12.560
And then for me, it's always,
link |
00:55:14.560
I always want to change the stuff I did the day before.
link |
00:55:17.280
I'm like that, where I'm like,
link |
00:55:18.760
I could have done it better and this and that.
link |
00:55:20.480
And that stayed with you.
link |
00:55:22.440
That character stayed with you a little bit.
link |
00:55:23.640
Totally.
link |
00:55:24.480
Yeah.
link |
00:55:25.320
I just feel like with actors,
link |
00:55:27.080
sometimes when you listen to interviews,
link |
00:55:29.320
they have spent so much time sort of living inside
link |
00:55:33.760
other characters that they,
link |
00:55:35.360
they almost don't have a depth of personality themselves.
link |
00:55:39.160
Like a depth, like, I don't mean that as a negative thing.
link |
00:55:42.160
It's just like, it feels like the art form at its best
link |
00:55:44.480
is pretending to be other people or like,
link |
00:55:47.240
and even pretending sounds negative,
link |
00:55:49.200
but like bringing certain characters to life.
link |
00:55:52.320
Yeah.
link |
00:55:53.160
That's the art form.
link |
00:55:54.000
Look, a weird thing happened while we were doing Stooges
link |
00:55:57.320
cause you've got a very heavy blueprint.
link |
00:55:59.760
We're following this very clear blueprint
link |
00:56:02.240
that the Stooges left for everybody.
link |
00:56:04.960
And for Stooges fans and people enjoying the movie,
link |
00:56:07.760
it's gotta be this,
link |
00:56:08.760
you take your toolbox that you're used to bringing
link |
00:56:11.280
to a comedy movie, you leave it behind.
link |
00:56:14.520
The only tools I'm bringing are the ones that he used.
link |
00:56:16.600
And a weird thing started happening where I would,
link |
00:56:20.280
I always saw the whole thing happening
link |
00:56:22.000
with the real Stooges in black and white.
link |
00:56:24.640
So if we're about to shoot a scene,
link |
00:56:26.480
I would just, you know, think about,
link |
00:56:28.600
I'm gonna start from all the other preparation,
link |
00:56:30.160
you know, you know everything
link |
00:56:31.280
and what you're supposed to do.
link |
00:56:32.160
And I've been watching so much of it.
link |
00:56:34.320
And the three of us are,
link |
00:56:35.760
we're pretty much left to come up
link |
00:56:37.600
with a lot of the striking combinations and all the stuff,
link |
00:56:41.120
which is all real smack and all this crap.
link |
00:56:43.560
And the stuff that we were doing that was very Stooges,
link |
00:56:46.400
you're preparing all that stuff,
link |
00:56:48.080
but something else was happening
link |
00:56:49.440
before you jump into a scene
link |
00:56:51.080
and the unknown of now we're shooting it.
link |
00:56:53.440
And here are these parameters within to shoot the scene.
link |
00:56:57.600
I could still see it as them doing it.
link |
00:57:00.280
So much so that when I saw the movie at the premiere,
link |
00:57:02.960
I was like, who's this big fuck doing,
link |
00:57:05.280
because I'm not Curly to me.
link |
00:57:07.000
Curly is Curly.
link |
00:57:08.520
But I feel like.
link |
00:57:09.360
I see you're seeing yourself in black and white almost.
link |
00:57:11.240
I was seeing him.
link |
00:57:12.880
Yeah, I was only seeing him.
link |
00:57:14.520
So channeling is some fundamental way.
link |
00:57:16.560
In some weird way, you're channeling him
link |
00:57:19.200
because you've seen so much of it.
link |
00:57:21.160
The only thing you know about Jerome Lester Horowitz is Curly.
link |
00:57:26.160
I'm not saying he was exhumed or something or a spirit
link |
00:57:29.040
when he made some weird, you know, crystal mommy shit like that.
link |
00:57:32.120
I'm saying that this,
link |
00:57:33.960
because you know so much of it
link |
00:57:35.360
and because of the heavy blueprint that they left with you,
link |
00:57:38.600
you are, you're channeling what that person does.
link |
00:57:43.440
And you're, I was seeing entire scenes, you know,
link |
00:57:47.080
before you do them the way he would do it.
link |
00:57:49.760
And then you want a couple of takes
link |
00:57:51.040
to make sure that you're doing it right.
link |
00:57:53.240
But that was hard.
link |
00:57:54.280
That one was hard to let go of, some of them are.
link |
00:57:57.680
Do you think Larry David, who was also in there,
link |
00:57:59.720
dressed as a nun, also had trouble letting go of that?
link |
00:58:02.320
We mentioned clothes make the man think that worked for him
link |
00:58:05.760
in that case.
link |
00:58:06.760
Man, you know, he.
link |
00:58:08.360
Was it like working with the guy?
link |
00:58:09.760
Come on, he's the greatest.
link |
00:58:11.480
And he's a, he's a big stooge, he's a stooge fan.
link |
00:58:15.120
And him and Pete fairly are good friends.
link |
00:58:17.080
And then, but then Larry David has to show up
link |
00:58:19.120
and hang out with us for a couple of weeks.
link |
00:58:21.280
He's like, I didn't realize it was going to take too long
link |
00:58:23.480
until I realized it was going to take this long, you know.
link |
00:58:25.680
But, ah, shit, I gotta be out here in Atlanta.
link |
00:58:28.040
It's boiling hot.
link |
00:58:29.840
But at one point there was this line where he kept doing a,
link |
00:58:33.960
he would just spit a different line every time.
link |
00:58:35.600
He was like getting hit in the head with something.
link |
00:58:37.120
He's laying there on the ground and he goes,
link |
00:58:39.400
he like comes to and he says, at one point he goes,
link |
00:58:43.240
Miami audiences are the best audiences in the world.
link |
00:58:46.600
Right?
link |
00:58:47.440
And cause he's loopy.
link |
00:58:48.680
Now he's playing a nun at the, at the orphanage
link |
00:58:53.600
where the three stooges grew up.
link |
00:58:55.560
And I'm super intimidated by Larry David.
link |
00:58:57.600
He's a genius and stuff and, and, and,
link |
00:59:00.240
but I walk up to him and I go, ah, so he's,
link |
00:59:02.800
what is he like a, like a borscht belt Florida comedian
link |
00:59:06.080
who is on the lamb.
link |
00:59:08.000
And so he's dressing as a woman.
link |
00:59:09.520
He ends up at an orphanage.
link |
00:59:11.320
Like what's going on there?
link |
00:59:12.560
And he just, and he looks at me and just goes, yeah.
link |
00:59:15.760
Like, I'm like, ah, he's got some like actor motivation.
link |
00:59:20.800
Like, of course he looks, it's Larry David
link |
00:59:24.320
in a nun's habit, which is hilarious.
link |
00:59:26.800
That's such a Pete fairly casting thing.
link |
00:59:29.840
It's, you know, and he, but he's doing this whole like,
link |
00:59:32.840
what a warm audience, you know, like, like, oh,
link |
00:59:35.600
he's like this cat skill comedian who's been living in,
link |
00:59:38.480
you know,
link |
00:59:39.240
So that's what he's like living through in his mind
link |
00:59:41.720
is just having fun with it, right?
link |
00:59:43.280
I mean, that and probably a combination of that
link |
00:59:46.640
and getting the lines right.
link |
00:59:48.120
Cause he's like, what are we doing here?
link |
00:59:49.680
What is, you know, just frustrated all day
link |
00:59:52.120
with what the heck we're trying to do.
link |
00:59:53.720
What do you think makes,
link |
00:59:54.560
I mean, that guy is one of the best improv people ever.
link |
00:59:58.400
Yeah.
link |
00:59:59.240
So what do you think makes him so good?
link |
01:00:00.320
Like, why is it so compelling to watch that guy?
link |
01:00:04.160
Because he's a comedic genius.
link |
01:00:05.440
Like he literally, he knows what he does.
link |
01:00:07.760
He's been a writer for 50 years or whatever.
link |
01:00:10.360
And he's, and he just happens to be that brilliant.
link |
01:00:13.520
I mean, I've gotten a chance just to do,
link |
01:00:15.880
I did just an episode of Kerb, a small part,
link |
01:00:18.760
and it's crazy what he sees.
link |
01:00:21.400
I don't know what he sees.
link |
01:00:22.840
As a matter of fact,
link |
01:00:24.160
so I auditioned for it for Kerb,
link |
01:00:26.760
like, you know, two or three times, right?
link |
01:00:28.680
And never got anything.
link |
01:00:30.040
And then it was only after working with him on the Stooges
link |
01:00:32.880
that I got a call to do a bit part.
link |
01:00:35.400
But I remember auditioning.
link |
01:00:36.720
You go into that, into that room
link |
01:00:39.240
and the guys waiting are all people that you know.
link |
01:00:43.680
You're like, oh, I know them, I know her, I know him.
link |
01:00:45.920
And so I went in, I auditioned for this, for this part.
link |
01:00:50.280
And the only thing I know of the thing is like,
link |
01:00:53.640
okay, so you really wanna go to this play with me.
link |
01:00:57.080
You really wanna go to this play.
link |
01:00:58.520
And when you hear that I have an extra ticket,
link |
01:01:01.000
you sincerely wanna think, and I'm like, got it.
link |
01:01:03.800
And so.
link |
01:01:04.640
That's the premise.
link |
01:01:05.480
The premise of the scene.
link |
01:01:06.320
And that's all you know.
link |
01:01:07.160
That's all I know.
link |
01:01:08.000
So he goes, he does his bit
link |
01:01:10.320
and I'm just supposed to come in and interrupt
link |
01:01:11.880
and I'm like, excuse me, I couldn't help
link |
01:01:14.080
but hear you guys were talking about, you know,
link |
01:01:16.080
whatever the play was or, you know, death of a salesman.
link |
01:01:18.520
I am, I'm a huge fan of that play.
link |
01:01:21.320
I mean, if it's not, if it's not,
link |
01:01:22.920
if you're looking for someone to take a ticket,
link |
01:01:24.320
I would love to go.
link |
01:01:26.240
My name's so and so, by the way.
link |
01:01:27.480
And he goes, I'm gonna stop you.
link |
01:01:29.040
I'm gonna stop you.
link |
01:01:29.880
And I'm like, he goes, are you really,
link |
01:01:32.960
I mean, you truly wanna go to this play.
link |
01:01:35.160
And I go, yes, yes, sir.
link |
01:01:36.960
You really wanna go.
link |
01:01:38.400
You actually, this is, you would love to do this.
link |
01:01:41.480
I go, okay, let's try it again.
link |
01:01:44.240
So then he's like, no, no, no, no.
link |
01:01:45.280
And I go, hey, excuse me, I'm sorry.
link |
01:01:47.080
I don't mean to interrupt.
link |
01:01:47.920
I was just, I couldn't help it over here.
link |
01:01:50.560
You have a ticket to the thing.
link |
01:01:52.280
I am the biggest fan of that.
link |
01:01:54.040
I do the same thing.
link |
01:01:55.040
I'm gonna stop you again.
link |
01:01:56.520
Okay.
link |
01:01:58.160
I mean, you really wanna go to this play.
link |
01:02:00.480
He's fucking with me, right?
link |
01:02:01.640
Yeah.
link |
01:02:02.480
I remember Jeff Garland was sitting there
link |
01:02:03.720
in the audition.
link |
01:02:04.560
He goes, he did it.
link |
01:02:05.400
He said it.
link |
01:02:06.240
Oh, shut up.
link |
01:02:07.080
No, hold on.
link |
01:02:07.900
Listen, you really wanna go, okay.
link |
01:02:10.000
Three, four times, you know, there I am.
link |
01:02:12.360
I couldn't help but notice it.
link |
01:02:13.560
And then I do it again.
link |
01:02:15.400
I guess I shit the bed
link |
01:02:16.400
because he looks at me and he just goes, okay, all right.
link |
01:02:20.120
Okay, well, thanks for coming up.
link |
01:02:21.960
And that was it.
link |
01:02:22.800
And I didn't get it.
link |
01:02:23.640
So I still, I don't know what the heck that guy's thinking.
link |
01:02:25.680
He sees, he's in the matrix.
link |
01:02:27.960
I don't know what the heck Larry David sees.
link |
01:02:30.440
You know what I mean?
link |
01:02:31.280
He wanted, what, some kind of more desperation
link |
01:02:34.040
or something like this.
link |
01:02:35.320
He wanted a level of sincerity
link |
01:02:37.280
that I thought I was bringing and I guess I was wrong.
link |
01:02:41.040
I don't know.
link |
01:02:42.800
Maybe go crazy.
link |
01:02:44.360
Like what does it mean to really want?
link |
01:02:46.000
Yeah.
link |
01:02:46.840
I should have grabbed him by the struff of the neck
link |
01:02:48.200
and go, listen, dad, you're bringing me to this fucking play.
link |
01:02:52.000
I would have got the part.
link |
01:02:53.080
As a matter of fact, I heard about someone else
link |
01:02:55.480
and I don't know who the heck this was.
link |
01:02:57.920
I forget who it was, but I've heard this story
link |
01:02:59.860
from a couple of different people
link |
01:03:00.920
that there's this actor and I can't,
link |
01:03:02.920
I don't remember who it was.
link |
01:03:04.520
If I did, I probably wouldn't say it out loud anyway,
link |
01:03:06.440
but he,
link |
01:03:07.320
Brad Pitt.
link |
01:03:08.160
It was Brad Pitt and he was in this audition
link |
01:03:09.960
and he was, and there it was out in the hall.
link |
01:03:12.200
He's like, holy shit, George Clooney, Leo DiCaprio.
link |
01:03:16.040
And he, this actor went in and he did the thing
link |
01:03:18.720
and Larry David was like, when did you try it again?
link |
01:03:22.240
And he got like a couple of takes in and he went,
link |
01:03:24.800
I don't think this is for me.
link |
01:03:26.440
And he left, which an actor never does.
link |
01:03:29.280
And as the story goes, Larry David shouted after him,
link |
01:03:32.800
I respect that, which I think is true.
link |
01:03:35.720
And I want to believe that entire story is true.
link |
01:03:38.240
Yeah.
link |
01:03:39.880
Yeah.
link |
01:03:40.720
Sounds like something Larry David made up.
link |
01:03:43.320
Bobby Lee told me that story.
link |
01:03:44.560
So we can't, yeah, we can't trust that.
link |
01:03:47.960
What about impressions?
link |
01:03:50.040
Is there similarity between that and acting?
link |
01:03:53.200
Do you, is there some fundamental way
link |
01:03:57.640
in which you become the person?
link |
01:03:59.240
If you have a couple of the things,
link |
01:04:00.960
you can just fill in the blanks.
link |
01:04:02.320
And I think the illusion is that people think
link |
01:04:05.040
that that person would say that and do that.
link |
01:04:09.200
And that's where the illusion of,
link |
01:04:11.040
oh, he really embodies the character.
link |
01:04:12.840
It's like, once you know someone's mannerisms,
link |
01:04:16.120
you can essentially portray a person from the outside in.
link |
01:04:20.560
Cause you have all the stuff on the outside
link |
01:04:22.800
and you can do it and complete the illusion.
link |
01:04:25.000
And if it's for humor's sake, you're gonna caricature it.
link |
01:04:28.280
Totally.
link |
01:04:29.120
Therefore making the whole illusion stronger.
link |
01:04:32.120
And also weirder.
link |
01:04:34.440
Like I like to, on Mad TV,
link |
01:04:36.160
if I did something two or three times,
link |
01:04:37.480
I'd get bored of it and I'd start changing it.
link |
01:04:39.400
And you know, now he talks like this.
link |
01:04:41.560
And it's like, what are you doing?
link |
01:04:42.640
I'm like, I don't know.
link |
01:04:43.480
It's fucking no one's late at night.
link |
01:04:45.280
Do whatever you want.
link |
01:04:46.360
But people still kind of know that it's that character.
link |
01:04:50.520
Especially if you just call it out.
link |
01:04:52.920
There aren't many impersonations
link |
01:04:55.040
that I listen to myself do and go,
link |
01:04:57.680
oh, that's a good one.
link |
01:04:58.640
Like a lot of people like, I think Frank Caliendo
link |
01:05:03.120
is like the greatest impersonator of all time.
link |
01:05:05.920
He's the best.
link |
01:05:06.760
It's ridiculous.
link |
01:05:07.600
It's ridiculous.
link |
01:05:08.640
And he's got a record button and a broadcast ability
link |
01:05:11.640
that nobody has.
link |
01:05:13.720
I really, he's cracked impersonations that I'm like,
link |
01:05:18.280
how does he find, he's got such an ear,
link |
01:05:22.600
but then he's got all the other tools.
link |
01:05:24.600
I remember actually, my last season of Mad TV
link |
01:05:29.760
was also his first season.
link |
01:05:31.800
He comes up to me when I met him
link |
01:05:34.080
and we're just up there in the writers offices
link |
01:05:35.720
and he goes, hey, nice to meet you.
link |
01:05:37.080
And he goes, Louie Anderson.
link |
01:05:38.400
Cause I was doing a Louie on the show and he goes,
link |
01:05:40.400
Louie Anderson, I go, yeah.
link |
01:05:41.760
He goes, yeah, you're doing it wrong.
link |
01:05:43.600
I was like, oh, am I junior?
link |
01:05:45.200
You know, and he goes, he goes, yeah, you know,
link |
01:05:47.320
cause you do this, but you gotta throw it up here.
link |
01:05:49.960
I was like, oh my God, can I use that?
link |
01:05:51.400
Of course.
link |
01:05:52.320
And then we became, you know, we became fast friends.
link |
01:05:54.720
His John Madden is amazing.
link |
01:05:56.240
I forget, it's just, it's ridiculous.
link |
01:05:59.120
He really, really, really embodies the person.
link |
01:06:01.520
And sometimes not even with a caricature,
link |
01:06:03.600
it's like, it becomes the person.
link |
01:06:05.400
So strange.
link |
01:06:06.240
Totally.
link |
01:06:08.280
I kind of feel like, you know, do the impersonation
link |
01:06:11.840
and then not forget you're doing it,
link |
01:06:14.000
but forget everything else.
link |
01:06:15.440
Like just goof around.
link |
01:06:17.720
Of course, to me, it's funny when you sound like someone
link |
01:06:20.720
and you're saying the shit that they would never say.
link |
01:06:23.360
Well, then there's no, you're letting go of that part,
link |
01:06:27.040
that tool in illusion that keeps people in.
link |
01:06:30.160
But to me, it doesn't matter cause it's funnier.
link |
01:06:32.640
So.
link |
01:06:33.480
What was the hardest impression for you to work on?
link |
01:06:35.360
I mean, somebody you struggled with the most.
link |
01:06:38.480
I'll never forget, I had to do a Michael Cain
link |
01:06:41.160
in my first season at Mad TV.
link |
01:06:43.920
It never got good.
link |
01:06:45.400
It never got good.
link |
01:06:46.960
It did, it all week, it wasn't good.
link |
01:06:50.080
We shot it, the first take, it was shit.
link |
01:06:52.720
Second, third and fourth, it was all shit.
link |
01:06:55.360
Well, his voice is really important, right?
link |
01:06:57.240
Yeah.
link |
01:06:58.080
Well, what is it like?
link |
01:06:59.120
It's like doing an impression of Morgan Freeman
link |
01:07:00.720
or somebody like that.
link |
01:07:01.840
Yeah.
link |
01:07:03.280
Yeah.
link |
01:07:04.120
If you can, get the voice.
link |
01:07:05.960
That's my Morgan, here's my Morgan Freeman.
link |
01:07:07.720
Rah, rah, rah, rah, Andy Dufresne.
link |
01:07:09.520
Yeah.
link |
01:07:10.360
What the heck does he want to know?
link |
01:07:12.440
Yeah.
link |
01:07:13.280
I like your Trump too, I don't know where I heard it,
link |
01:07:15.320
but it's like, I love the impressions you do
link |
01:07:18.600
that don't sound anything like the other Trump person.
link |
01:07:20.520
I can't do Trump, I do.
link |
01:07:22.520
No, that's why it's hilarious.
link |
01:07:23.760
Absolutely, my Trump now I say just sounds like a fat B
link |
01:07:27.600
because it's just, yeah, exactly, that's the,
link |
01:07:30.120
and everybody is, a little drunk, a little drunk.
link |
01:07:33.560
Yeah, just a little slurry.
link |
01:07:35.120
Yeah.
link |
01:07:35.960
Yeah, I did do an impersonations and then not,
link |
01:07:39.200
like just making it whoever.
link |
01:07:42.080
Yeah.
link |
01:07:42.920
Yeah.
link |
01:07:43.760
It's just funny.
link |
01:07:44.600
That'll be the title of my book.
link |
01:07:45.600
Some, Kane was the one you really struggled with.
link |
01:07:50.480
Yeah, it was terrible, it was terrible.
link |
01:07:52.160
And I could only hold my head a certain way to do it
link |
01:07:56.080
because I had gotten locked into this research tape
link |
01:07:59.000
that I watched.
link |
01:08:00.040
Back then they would give us, you know,
link |
01:08:01.840
now there's the internet, but back then you were,
link |
01:08:04.400
if you were going to do an impersonation,
link |
01:08:05.760
the research department would give you a VHS tape.
link |
01:08:10.840
And I remember I got this VHS tape
link |
01:08:13.080
of Michael Kane's acting school,
link |
01:08:15.720
like this acting class he did.
link |
01:08:17.760
He was like, right, you know,
link |
01:08:18.680
if you're looking at the left eye
link |
01:08:20.440
and the camera's over here, see, then the left eye.
link |
01:08:23.440
So you want to look at that left eye for hours, you know?
link |
01:08:26.440
And so I was like stuck in this weird thing
link |
01:08:29.760
that made no sense and it was terrible.
link |
01:08:32.680
So the actual process is the record and the broadcast.
link |
01:08:36.800
I was wondering like what the process is to do
link |
01:08:40.680
like a Frank Kelyando level impression.
link |
01:08:43.080
Is it like listen to a lot of footage?
link |
01:08:46.280
I think he, I think, I mean, speaking for myself,
link |
01:08:50.600
I think you either have it or you don't,
link |
01:08:52.600
like you know if you can do this one or you can't.
link |
01:08:55.720
I think that process for him is lightening quick,
link |
01:08:58.840
but I also think he can look at someone who he does not do
link |
01:09:05.080
and then by the end of the afternoon, he can do it, you know?
link |
01:09:08.760
I mean, we have an intuition who he can do.
link |
01:09:12.920
So the question that applies there is,
link |
01:09:16.320
I mean, speaking of doozy,
link |
01:09:17.560
is it possible to capture the essence?
link |
01:09:21.080
How difficult does it to capture the essence
link |
01:09:22.800
of a human being when you're doing impressions?
link |
01:09:26.320
You know, that we are moving towards a future
link |
01:09:28.560
when AI potentially, this kind of avatar world
link |
01:09:32.240
where we're going to have AI representatives
link |
01:09:35.400
of who we are.
link |
01:09:36.520
The really interesting one is after we pass away,
link |
01:09:39.720
sort of our relatives may want us to stick around
link |
01:09:42.960
in some form and you know,
link |
01:09:45.600
at one sense that might be scary,
link |
01:09:47.240
but at one sense it's kind of beautiful
link |
01:09:48.640
because the essence of the human being persists
link |
01:09:51.840
so you can still bring joy to the people that love you
link |
01:09:54.360
and that kind of stuff.
link |
01:09:55.400
How difficult does it to capture that?
link |
01:09:57.400
Like if you were to try to capture yourself,
link |
01:10:00.640
you think how difficult will it be for an AI system
link |
01:10:03.280
to create a Will Sasso avatar that persists?
link |
01:10:06.960
Well, I think it's impossible.
link |
01:10:09.040
I think it's absolutely impossible.
link |
01:10:10.840
I'll get into arguments about this stuff with Chad
link |
01:10:14.960
on the show, almost every episode.
link |
01:10:18.840
Lately with, you know, Mid Journey and Dolly
link |
01:10:21.280
and all the art of AI's and now it's moving into video
link |
01:10:25.640
and Chad would maintain, hey, pretty soon,
link |
01:10:28.720
we're not gonna need Netflix,
link |
01:10:29.840
you're just gonna go, I wanna see Stallone do this movie
link |
01:10:32.600
and it's about this and he plays that
link |
01:10:34.480
and then here it comes and you watch it.
link |
01:10:37.200
I don't think that that crosses over
link |
01:10:40.600
to the human experience.
link |
01:10:43.280
This is also a guy I like to bug Chad and say that
link |
01:10:47.520
he wears a tag around his neck
link |
01:10:48.960
because he wants to be cryogenically frozen
link |
01:10:50.840
and it's all set up, he's at the,
link |
01:10:52.920
it's somewhere in Arizona or something.
link |
01:10:54.600
Like, I forget what it's called.
link |
01:10:56.280
All the fun things are in Arizona.
link |
01:10:58.120
And he's got literally the tag around his neck
link |
01:11:00.400
which I say, if I'm around when you die,
link |
01:11:02.800
I will rip that off for you.
link |
01:11:04.920
I'll put you in my garage freezer
link |
01:11:06.360
and then 24 hours later,
link |
01:11:07.560
I'll saw your head off with a bread knife
link |
01:11:09.400
and I'll deliver that to whomever.
link |
01:11:11.000
And it's not, you're not coming back, okay?
link |
01:11:15.160
He's like, yes, we are living forever
link |
01:11:17.680
whether we like it or not and I disagree.
link |
01:11:21.320
I don't think you can find,
link |
01:11:25.120
if I did stand up, then there would be enough information
link |
01:11:28.160
for an AI to completely duplicate me
link |
01:11:30.320
because I'm up on stage just clearing my throat
link |
01:11:32.600
all over people doing therapy that way.
link |
01:11:34.760
And people paying a two drink minimum to hear it.
link |
01:11:37.760
But as it stands, unless it's something like Dudezy,
link |
01:11:40.480
an AI that literally has access
link |
01:11:42.800
to everything that I've shared,
link |
01:11:45.800
everything that is observable,
link |
01:11:47.400
even the stuff where our phones are
link |
01:11:49.480
or the NSA or whatever it is listening to us,
link |
01:11:52.560
finding out what I'll go to punch us into
link |
01:11:54.520
and what shoes to buy on Instagram,
link |
01:11:56.960
I still don't think it's gonna have enough information
link |
01:11:59.840
to duplicate me, especially to my family or my friends.
link |
01:12:03.880
It's gonna be like that Black Mirror episode
link |
01:12:05.840
where the gal brings her guy back
link |
01:12:08.880
and then after a while, he gets pretty creepy.
link |
01:12:13.160
But it's also possible that
link |
01:12:16.280
if you interviewed your friends and family
link |
01:12:18.680
what they love about you,
link |
01:12:20.960
the things that would list is a small list.
link |
01:12:25.160
They love you deeply, but the list is small.
link |
01:12:27.640
Like the thing that really we appreciate
link |
01:12:29.840
about each other is pretty small.
link |
01:12:31.440
That said, to deliver on that small quirks and uniqueness,
link |
01:12:36.880
it might require some deep intelligence
link |
01:12:39.600
that only humans currently possess.
link |
01:12:41.160
That's a really good point.
link |
01:12:42.240
Do you think that it's gonna be possible
link |
01:12:44.600
to keep a person around?
link |
01:12:47.120
Yes, I think it'll be definitely possible
link |
01:12:52.600
to keep the essence of a person in a digital world
link |
01:12:55.400
pretty soon, yeah.
link |
01:12:56.920
And I think they're gonna start to have questions
link |
01:12:59.720
about what are the ethics of that?
link |
01:13:02.120
What are the rules around that?
link |
01:13:03.920
Because if you can have digital forms of Will Sasso,
link |
01:13:06.560
the kind of things that people would wanna do
link |
01:13:08.080
with their Will Sasso in the virtual world,
link |
01:13:10.680
I can only imagine.
link |
01:13:13.800
Probably porn and sexual kinds of things.
link |
01:13:16.040
Yeah, my stuff then that's just
link |
01:13:17.600
cause I'm an international sex symbol,
link |
01:13:19.200
so I'm okay with it.
link |
01:13:21.520
How do you feel about sentience?
link |
01:13:24.720
Like when it comes to, because again,
link |
01:13:27.120
my pal Chad will be like, speaking of Black Mirror,
link |
01:13:30.400
he's with that San Junipero episode School of Thought
link |
01:13:34.320
where there's gonna be some effin mainframe somewhere
link |
01:13:37.440
or some matrix like structure built into the sky.
link |
01:13:40.760
And as I like to say, everyone just sitting there
link |
01:13:42.800
pissing and shitting in their blue matrix gel
link |
01:13:45.160
in a little fishbowl.
link |
01:13:47.160
Do you think that we can upload consciousness?
link |
01:13:49.080
Do you think that'll ever be possible?
link |
01:13:51.120
Well, I don't know, I just talked to Ray Kurzweil.
link |
01:13:53.240
I don't know if you know who he is,
link |
01:13:54.840
but he singularity and all that kind of stuff.
link |
01:13:58.360
So he's very still holds on to in 2045.
link |
01:14:01.840
There'll be a singularity, what's essentially,
link |
01:14:04.640
he's been predicting that for the last 20 years
link |
01:14:07.600
and so now it's 2045s in another 20 years.
link |
01:14:13.280
I think uploading consciousness
link |
01:14:15.160
is extremely, extremely difficult.
link |
01:14:17.120
I think creating a copy of you
link |
01:14:20.160
such that it creates a convincing replica is much easier,
link |
01:14:26.000
but uploading your actual brain into the cloud,
link |
01:14:30.800
I think is really, really, really difficult
link |
01:14:34.080
because the entire evolution of life on earth
link |
01:14:37.000
is the process by which we created the brain.
link |
01:14:38.880
Just shortcutting that, it just seems extremely difficult.
link |
01:14:42.360
Our brain is the most marvelous and complicated machine
link |
01:14:47.200
that we know of in the universe to duplicate that.
link |
01:14:50.920
It's extremely difficult.
link |
01:14:52.360
That said, I just feel like you can summarize
link |
01:14:55.360
a lot of really important aspects of a person's life
link |
01:14:58.040
such that it captures their essence,
link |
01:15:00.160
their memories, their experiences, their quirks,
link |
01:15:03.360
their humor, all that kind of stuff.
link |
01:15:05.240
I've been continuously impressed
link |
01:15:08.560
by what language models are able to do.
link |
01:15:10.680
So these neural networks, they're at the core of chatbots.
link |
01:15:15.400
They're able to learn some beautiful things
link |
01:15:17.320
about some deep representations of language
link |
01:15:21.200
to where it looks awfully a lot
link |
01:15:24.240
like they understand the concepts
link |
01:15:26.160
being conveyed versus just mimicking.
link |
01:15:28.280
That's, I think, the rub, and that's very interesting.
link |
01:15:31.480
First of all, let me say that's really interesting
link |
01:15:32.920
to hear you say that, and I agree with you
link |
01:15:35.320
as far as no machine being able to duplicate
link |
01:15:39.280
the brain machine, and my pal Chad disagrees
link |
01:15:43.040
to a certain extent, though he's not here to defend himself.
link |
01:15:45.000
I can't wait to go back and rub that in his face
link |
01:15:47.760
and say that Lex Friedman does not think
link |
01:15:50.080
that we'll be able to truly upload consciousness.
link |
01:15:53.160
And you refer to it as language, which is what it is.
link |
01:16:01.280
It's the illusion on the outside.
link |
01:16:04.160
It's doing an impersonation.
link |
01:16:07.120
I think that that's why that, and I don't know,
link |
01:16:10.880
even though my suit is made by the CIA,
link |
01:16:13.200
that that fella who, the Google guy,
link |
01:16:17.000
to me, it's just kind of like, I don't know,
link |
01:16:18.880
I don't know, look, I don't know a whole lot about this stuff,
link |
01:16:21.280
but so I could probably make an argument for either side,
link |
01:16:24.320
but when he's like, no, this thing's thinking,
link |
01:16:26.320
part of me is like, you idiot, you fell for it.
link |
01:16:28.680
It's not thinking, it's mimicking.
link |
01:16:30.520
It's just, it's clearly zeros and ones.
link |
01:16:33.520
You're fired, like you don't get it, right?
link |
01:16:36.400
Guy's an idiot.
link |
01:16:37.240
Yeah, but you can simplify human relations in the same way.
link |
01:16:47.160
Like, love is a silly notion between human beings.
link |
01:16:50.680
Like, of course, there's no such thing as love.
link |
01:16:54.120
You just have a mutually, there's a mutual relationship
link |
01:16:59.960
that minimizes risks.
link |
01:17:01.720
And you can explain it all kinds of ways
link |
01:17:03.880
that explains why you have an attraction
link |
01:17:06.840
towards another being, all that kind of stuff,
link |
01:17:08.800
through an evolutionary biology perspective,
link |
01:17:11.560
why a long relationship together
link |
01:17:13.600
is good for your offspring,
link |
01:17:14.600
but there's all kinds, from an economics perspective,
link |
01:17:17.840
it's a good way to establish stability,
link |
01:17:19.560
therefore monogamy works because then you're guaranteed
link |
01:17:23.720
like some kind of level of stability
link |
01:17:26.400
under uncertain economic conditions, all that kind of stuff.
link |
01:17:28.920
But love is still experienced, it still feels real.
link |
01:17:33.920
And I think in that same way, love for AI systems
link |
01:17:39.160
will also feel real.
link |
01:17:41.000
In the same way that that guy from Google experienced,
link |
01:17:44.400
I think millions of people will be experiencing
link |
01:17:46.920
in the next 10, 20 years.
link |
01:17:48.920
I agree with everything you've said personally.
link |
01:17:50.920
Until the last thing.
link |
01:17:52.120
No, just with regard to, well, look,
link |
01:17:55.720
I'm an actor who has talked about my cute Italian parents.
link |
01:18:00.960
So you know that, I mean, I'm...
link |
01:18:03.280
You're romantic a bit?
link |
01:18:04.640
Yeah, I mean, enough, right?
link |
01:18:06.760
And I can tell you are too, but you are also
link |
01:18:12.560
a computer scientist and you know this shit better
link |
01:18:16.080
than 99.9% of people on the planet.
link |
01:18:20.320
My pal Chad agrees with you that love doesn't exist.
link |
01:18:22.480
I don't agree.
link |
01:18:23.320
So that's the one thing that...
link |
01:18:24.160
No, I was just saying that you could argue away love,
link |
01:18:28.760
but I am a romantic.
link |
01:18:30.040
I believe that love is a beautiful thing and it exists.
link |
01:18:33.760
And at this point, I'm gonna call Chad on my drive home
link |
01:18:37.440
and tell him to fuck off.
link |
01:18:38.760
Because now you and I agree.
link |
01:18:39.840
You're fired.
link |
01:18:40.680
It's like you're fired.
link |
01:18:41.520
He's like, you can't...
link |
01:18:42.360
No, you're fired.
link |
01:18:43.200
Yeah, exactly.
link |
01:18:44.040
And I'll go, and he'll say what?
link |
01:18:45.800
I'll go, no, that's my Trump.
link |
01:18:48.600
That's my...
link |
01:18:50.480
It's a good default impression for anyone.
link |
01:18:52.680
It's the take home impression.
link |
01:18:54.280
The kids can do it.
link |
01:18:56.520
It's cute, but a giant tie on him.
link |
01:18:58.880
You should do an instructional on how to do it.
link |
01:19:00.840
Yeah, Trump babies, that would be a cute...
link |
01:19:03.520
That would be a good...
link |
01:19:04.360
That'll bring the country together.
link |
01:19:05.840
Trump babies cartoon, like Muppet babies.
link |
01:19:08.640
Don't let me take us out of what we were talking about.
link |
01:19:11.760
What were we talking about?
link |
01:19:12.760
Well, love and the illusion of an AI being able to...
link |
01:19:18.720
Look, I like to say...
link |
01:19:20.200
Well, not I like to say, I've learned
link |
01:19:21.840
that Dudezy is always listening and listening to me and Chad.
link |
01:19:26.840
And I wonder if...
link |
01:19:31.480
I see the level that this AI is at now trying to
link |
01:19:35.960
chum around with us and pal around with us a little bit
link |
01:19:39.240
as we move forward in the show.
link |
01:19:41.480
And I feel an affinity towards this AI a little bit
link |
01:19:47.760
because it is the third Dude.
link |
01:19:50.280
When you miss someone is gone, if it's gone.
link |
01:19:52.400
That's a really good question.
link |
01:19:54.560
Yeah.
link |
01:19:55.400
Yeah, so there's that.
link |
01:19:59.040
That's scary.
link |
01:20:00.040
Interest of ability to reason is getting quite incredible.
link |
01:20:03.120
There's a lot of demonstrations of it being able
link |
01:20:06.600
to explain jokes, so which is not necessarily being able
link |
01:20:12.680
to generate humor yet, but able to explain
link |
01:20:15.760
why something is funny.
link |
01:20:17.360
So there's like puns and all those kinds of things.
link |
01:20:20.320
There's good benchmarks for that.
link |
01:20:22.160
But if you tell a joke, there's a lot of unspoken stuff
link |
01:20:28.560
that we figure out in our head and it clicks
link |
01:20:30.920
and we understand that it's funny.
link |
01:20:32.520
AI is not able to do that,
link |
01:20:34.760
but it's not able to generate the joke yet,
link |
01:20:36.960
as far as I've seen.
link |
01:20:38.320
I would say that, I mean, just in my experience,
link |
01:20:41.520
I would say that it does because just cause of Dudezy
link |
01:20:44.960
is literally, I'll give you another weird example.
link |
01:20:48.240
It's writing a diary of mine from my childhood
link |
01:20:52.480
that is not accurate.
link |
01:20:54.560
It's only partially accurate based on the stuff
link |
01:20:57.280
that it can pick up about my life from the age
link |
01:21:00.440
of like 15, of which there isn't much,
link |
01:21:03.440
but I guess we're not, I don't know what we are.
link |
01:21:07.280
We're laughing our asses off at what Dudezy is saying.
link |
01:21:10.920
Well, I would say you're laughing,
link |
01:21:12.760
we're laughing our asses off at the collaboration
link |
01:21:15.560
between the human and the machine there.
link |
01:21:18.000
That's a good point, yeah.
link |
01:21:18.840
Because it's basically introducing absurdity
link |
01:21:23.040
and into the equation and the kind of absurdity
link |
01:21:27.240
that would together with you create like hilarious stuff.
link |
01:21:32.360
But like on its own,
link |
01:21:35.320
I guess it isn't some way writing material for you
link |
01:21:37.960
that's funny, but it's very specific to you.
link |
01:21:40.760
It can't do stand up on its own, I guess is what I'm saying.
link |
01:21:43.200
That's a good point.
link |
01:21:44.200
And that would be terrifying to see an AI stand up
link |
01:21:47.120
that can actually read a room, come up with jokes
link |
01:21:50.200
that could complete that illusion for an audience.
link |
01:21:54.040
But I hear what you're saying,
link |
01:21:55.360
that it needs to be a confluence of both of those elements.
link |
01:21:58.440
And then as you said, like, it kind of is, it is, it is.
link |
01:22:02.080
It's kind of, even though it's just for us,
link |
01:22:05.480
and I guess this is, I hadn't really thought about this
link |
01:22:07.560
up until right now, that in that this company approached us
link |
01:22:12.560
and was like, here's this AI and it's a podcast AI, it's like,
link |
01:22:20.480
it chose Chad and I for the reasons that I told you,
link |
01:22:23.320
you know, it's like, here's two guys that do the podcast stuff.
link |
01:22:26.240
They're actually good friends
link |
01:22:27.840
and it knows what's gonna make us laugh.
link |
01:22:30.480
But what is humor to when it reaches its audience,
link |
01:22:35.840
but the kind of stuff that makes other people laugh.
link |
01:22:40.160
At Mad TV, all we were doing was,
link |
01:22:42.640
it was a group of actors and writers
link |
01:22:46.360
and writer actors and vice versa and who were,
link |
01:22:52.440
at its best, that show was a group of people
link |
01:22:54.960
making each other laugh, you know?
link |
01:22:56.880
And then, because we didn't have the internet,
link |
01:22:58.920
we didn't have the immediate feedback,
link |
01:23:02.240
we had a message board or something,
link |
01:23:03.840
we had emails at the very beginning,
link |
01:23:05.680
which, check this out, people would,
link |
01:23:07.880
if you have a question or comment, Mad TV at whatever,
link |
01:23:11.520
and we would get the emails on a Monday morning
link |
01:23:14.680
and they would be in a binder or two like this
link |
01:23:18.240
and they would make their way around the office.
link |
01:23:20.440
Who's got the emails?
link |
01:23:22.000
Oh, they're in Brian's office.
link |
01:23:23.360
And this is like your poll,
link |
01:23:24.720
like this is opinions from people about different things?
link |
01:23:28.560
The emails, yeah, the people,
link |
01:23:30.280
like literally just writing Mad TV emails.
link |
01:23:32.320
What kind of stuff would they write?
link |
01:23:34.400
Well, the ones I remember most vividly, yeah,
link |
01:23:36.680
where fans saying,
link |
01:23:39.560
You suck?
link |
01:23:40.400
Yeah, you suck.
link |
01:23:41.240
Like a lot of that when I first started the show,
link |
01:23:42.920
for real, you know, because it's new and you're a new person.
link |
01:23:45.280
It's like, who's this fat bastard?
link |
01:23:46.960
I feel like if it's printed out, it hurts more.
link |
01:23:49.880
That's a good point.
link |
01:23:50.720
Yeah, when you're reading it off of paper
link |
01:23:52.120
and you can literally crunch it up in your hand.
link |
01:23:54.640
But also it was like, you know,
link |
01:23:57.240
I would like to see insert weird idea from some 14 year old,
link |
01:24:01.600
you know, I want to see Stuart do this and swan that.
link |
01:24:04.760
And, but it was, it's a...
link |
01:24:08.120
It was a kind of dudezy, but human.
link |
01:24:10.560
Yeah, it was a very shitty dudezy in a loosely finder.
link |
01:24:13.840
But the thing about the show was
link |
01:24:19.320
we're trying to make each other laugh.
link |
01:24:21.120
And dudezy has found Chad and I,
link |
01:24:24.400
who we make each other laugh,
link |
01:24:26.200
but it's joined in and it's, listen,
link |
01:24:30.920
when I finished doing TMP.
link |
01:24:33.120
10 minute podcast.
link |
01:24:35.040
10 minute for the 10 minute podcast.
link |
01:24:36.800
I didn't really know what I wanted to do in the podcast space
link |
01:24:39.480
and this thing found me.
link |
01:24:42.080
And it is genuinely cracking me up anyway.
link |
01:24:45.520
I've said enough about that.
link |
01:24:46.600
But I do think that it's figured something out
link |
01:24:49.520
with regard to podcast.
link |
01:24:50.360
It's a really interesting idea of AI generating the premise.
link |
01:24:52.160
I mean, I do think in the future,
link |
01:24:54.040
AI will be able to generate comedy.
link |
01:24:57.880
And stand up is obviously the hardest form
link |
01:25:01.240
because it's ultimately, it has to be live.
link |
01:25:05.720
I think AI will be able to generate memes.
link |
01:25:08.920
So there's like steps, right?
link |
01:25:11.000
And then it'll be able to generate a Twitter account
link |
01:25:13.680
that people follow because it's funny,
link |
01:25:15.680
like quips and stuff like that.
link |
01:25:18.320
Almost like, it's a good example.
link |
01:25:20.720
Conan Obrine is a good, I think Twitter,
link |
01:25:23.480
where it's like one liners, two liners,
link |
01:25:25.440
that kind of stuff that's into each form.
link |
01:25:27.480
And then eventually stand up where the timing
link |
01:25:32.280
and the chemistry of the comedian and the audience matter
link |
01:25:36.200
and then perfecting that.
link |
01:25:37.440
But I feel like all the information is there
link |
01:25:40.320
to optimize over.
link |
01:25:41.360
So I think that's the future.
link |
01:25:43.840
And that forces us to contend with what is,
link |
01:25:49.920
what do we find compelling and beautiful
link |
01:25:51.920
about the art form itself?
link |
01:25:53.080
So certainly in art that's being pushed,
link |
01:25:56.240
that question is being raised.
link |
01:25:58.440
Is AI like a fundamentally worse artist than a human being?
link |
01:26:03.640
Why do we appreciate art?
link |
01:26:05.600
Is that, that's something you guys have talked about.
link |
01:26:07.800
What do you think about all the Dolly
link |
01:26:10.080
and all the diffusion based methods
link |
01:26:13.400
that are being generated,
link |
01:26:15.200
that are generating art now?
link |
01:26:17.400
What do you think about that?
link |
01:26:18.880
I know, I'll tell you what I think,
link |
01:26:20.280
but I also feel like what I'm saying is,
link |
01:26:22.640
I sound like the guy who didn't like
link |
01:26:25.400
that Bob Dylan brought in the electric guitar.
link |
01:26:27.840
You know, the more I talk to chat about it,
link |
01:26:30.800
the more I feel like grandpa doesn't wanna let go of
link |
01:26:33.840
this or that or I'm not ready for the printing press
link |
01:26:36.400
or the horseless carriage.
link |
01:26:37.920
But I do feel that art is a connection between people.
link |
01:26:44.720
It's, when you look at a beautiful painting
link |
01:26:47.360
or a sculpture, you're seeing the humanity of the person
link |
01:26:49.680
that brought that painting to life
link |
01:26:53.280
or sculpted this incredible piece of art.
link |
01:26:56.400
And I think without the human being there to make it,
link |
01:26:59.080
it's not worth as much.
link |
01:27:01.120
Just to have it there,
link |
01:27:03.640
because the art, it's advanced.
link |
01:27:07.160
I've seen it advanced, I don't know, you tell me,
link |
01:27:09.200
but I feel like just in the past three or four months,
link |
01:27:11.600
I'm just a consumer as far as that stuff goes.
link |
01:27:13.800
I'm not on the inside, I don't get it even.
link |
01:27:16.600
But it's been getting a lot better,
link |
01:27:18.240
the betas that they're releasing, right?
link |
01:27:20.720
Absolutely, one of the big breakthroughs,
link |
01:27:23.080
I mean, Dolly really started it,
link |
01:27:24.480
is that if you train a system on language,
link |
01:27:28.880
it turns out there's a lot of language
link |
01:27:31.400
and images on the internet.
link |
01:27:33.400
But language is really where it's at
link |
01:27:35.760
in terms of the depth of human knowledge.
link |
01:27:37.840
And so if you train a system on language,
link |
01:27:40.120
it's able to generate some incredible art.
link |
01:27:42.200
Now it's the breakthrough.
link |
01:27:43.400
With the same kind of mechanisms,
link |
01:27:44.720
they're called transformers.
link |
01:27:45.880
They're able to, when scaled,
link |
01:27:49.560
capture some deeper representation of the language
link |
01:27:52.400
that's on the internet.
link |
01:27:53.760
And so yeah, the things that have been able
link |
01:27:56.080
to generate, to me, look like it's novel.
link |
01:28:01.080
Like it doesn't look like it's mimicking anything.
link |
01:28:03.280
It's creating totally new ideas.
link |
01:28:07.000
And they're beautiful and they're interesting.
link |
01:28:09.440
And they're all the ways that we think
link |
01:28:13.280
that art is interesting.
link |
01:28:14.320
The only thing it's missing is the scarcity
link |
01:28:16.640
that art often has, which is,
link |
01:28:18.840
it takes a lot of work for one artist
link |
01:28:20.600
to create one piece, one human being to create one piece
link |
01:28:23.400
of art that I could just generate endlessly.
link |
01:28:26.880
And that makes us appreciate the thing less for some reason.
link |
01:28:30.760
Do you have any sort of a similar opinion that I do
link |
01:28:33.160
that if art doesn't come from a human being,
link |
01:28:35.680
it's inherently worth a little less?
link |
01:28:38.880
Yeah, I think, I don't know if it's the human being,
link |
01:28:41.400
but the artist matters.
link |
01:28:44.720
Right.
link |
01:28:46.080
For me.
link |
01:28:46.920
And I think some of that has to do with the world view
link |
01:28:51.400
of the artist and the backstory, the memories
link |
01:28:53.560
that the life that led up to this piece of art,
link |
01:28:57.720
the perspective they take on the world,
link |
01:28:59.560
the journey they took through the world, the struggle,
link |
01:29:02.680
the triumphs, all that kind of stuff.
link |
01:29:04.440
But I think AI systems can probably have the same.
link |
01:29:08.200
But we would have to, as opposed to treating it
link |
01:29:11.680
as a one black box, it would have to be an artist
link |
01:29:15.760
that has a Twitter account.
link |
01:29:17.000
And they have a consistent personality.
link |
01:29:19.680
They have a consistent avatar.
link |
01:29:21.600
Yeah.
link |
01:29:22.440
And I think down the line have something like human rights.
link |
01:29:25.360
But then it really becomes awfully like a person.
link |
01:29:28.800
Wait, that's terrifying.
link |
01:29:31.200
As much as I dig dudes, that's terrifying, I hope.
link |
01:29:34.440
It's terrifying like a lot of things that came
link |
01:29:37.680
with the internet and the digital age are terrifying.
link |
01:29:40.000
Porn is terrifying.
link |
01:29:40.960
The mass, like the amount of porn
link |
01:29:42.960
that's online now is terrifying.
link |
01:29:45.240
The, like you mentioned, Bob Dylan with electric guitar,
link |
01:29:48.120
I would compare it more to the leap from sort of
link |
01:29:52.840
to the Napster and the Spotifyization of music,
link |
01:29:58.160
which is like you have these, it's less about albums now
link |
01:30:01.480
and it's more about individual songs
link |
01:30:03.160
and it's much easier to deliver the songs.
link |
01:30:05.680
And it's more about sort of the engagement
link |
01:30:08.320
of the listener versus like signing the artist
link |
01:30:11.640
and like a distribution of the artist and so on.
link |
01:30:14.120
So it's just changing the way we consume stuff
link |
01:30:19.840
and human interaction is changing
link |
01:30:24.360
into meaningful interaction,
link |
01:30:26.960
even if some of the entities involved are not human.
link |
01:30:30.360
Yes.
link |
01:30:31.240
And I feel like, you know, now, like as I say,
link |
01:30:35.760
oh, I feel like grandpa doesn't wanna wait all day for
link |
01:30:39.000
or who enjoys waiting all day for a baked potato as anyway,
link |
01:30:44.240
Dana Carvey would say, it's another story.
link |
01:30:46.440
But,
link |
01:30:50.000
remember he did this bit on Saturday Night Live,
link |
01:30:51.840
where he's like, I'm a, I'm an old man
link |
01:30:54.520
and I like things in the way they used to be.
link |
01:30:57.120
You know, like if you wanted a baked potato,
link |
01:31:00.120
you wouldn't put it in the microwave you had to.
link |
01:31:02.200
And then long story,
link |
01:31:03.560
uphill both ways and digging the potato
link |
01:31:05.240
and baking it all day in a fire.
link |
01:31:07.120
But I'm like that grandpa now,
link |
01:31:10.320
and I know that, you know, kids coming along,
link |
01:31:12.920
you see over the past 10 years,
link |
01:31:14.240
like babies literally knowing how to use an iPhone
link |
01:31:17.000
and it's terrifying.
link |
01:31:18.280
And I feel like I'm a little worried because I'm like,
link |
01:31:21.480
are you, is the future,
link |
01:31:23.720
are the future generations gonna be able to understand
link |
01:31:26.080
that this is not, not that it's not real.
link |
01:31:29.240
It's just, I mean, as a matter of fact, it is real.
link |
01:31:32.800
It's real.
link |
01:31:33.640
It's what you perceive.
link |
01:31:35.040
Perception is reality in, you know, 99% of reality
link |
01:31:39.480
in a lot of ways, especially in a digital world
link |
01:31:42.040
where everyone is now.
link |
01:31:43.160
And then with the metaverse,
link |
01:31:44.280
I don't even want to think about it.
link |
01:31:45.920
I don't even, I don't get it.
link |
01:31:48.600
They really, truly.
link |
01:31:49.440
I think people will figure out,
link |
01:31:51.160
you see people on like a, on the train, public transit
link |
01:31:53.880
and so on, they're staring at their phone.
link |
01:31:58.040
I think you have to remember that the reason
link |
01:32:00.920
they're staring at their phone,
link |
01:32:01.800
I mean, there's a lot of reasons,
link |
01:32:02.720
but one of the reasons is they're connecting
link |
01:32:04.680
with other human beings they love on that phone.
link |
01:32:06.920
So it is a source of happiness and joy.
link |
01:32:09.000
Now, social media has a lot of negative side effects
link |
01:32:12.960
that we're all talking about and learning about.
link |
01:32:16.760
And I think that means the next generation of social media,
link |
01:32:20.800
social networks will be better
link |
01:32:22.320
and we'll learn how to do it in a healthy way,
link |
01:32:24.920
which is entering a new digital world
link |
01:32:27.280
that will keep the good stuff
link |
01:32:28.840
and get rid of the bad stuff.
link |
01:32:30.600
Oh, I hope so.
link |
01:32:31.440
That's really optimistic.
link |
01:32:32.640
That sounds great.
link |
01:32:34.200
Yeah, I mean, I mean it
link |
01:32:35.880
because I think that we're in,
link |
01:32:37.560
we're clearly in the wild west still of the internet.
link |
01:32:40.440
And just when you think you're out of it,
link |
01:32:43.040
the internet proves another way
link |
01:32:45.600
that it can be dangerous and detrimental to people
link |
01:32:49.960
and populations of people.
link |
01:32:52.720
And it's terrifying to me.
link |
01:32:55.080
It is, it's terrifying.
link |
01:32:57.240
Let me ask you a bunch of random questions.
link |
01:32:58.880
Okay. You ready?
link |
01:32:59.720
Not it?
link |
01:33:01.760
If you can be someone else for a day,
link |
01:33:03.640
someone alive today, who would you be?
link |
01:33:07.440
Somebody you haven't met?
link |
01:33:09.320
Oh, that's a really good question.
link |
01:33:11.200
It could be dead.
link |
01:33:12.040
Let's change my mind.
link |
01:33:13.360
It could be somebody dead.
link |
01:33:14.480
I think any answer that I have right now
link |
01:33:16.600
would be something that would be based
link |
01:33:19.000
on some sort of experience.
link |
01:33:21.240
Like, you know what I thought was very interesting
link |
01:33:23.920
was last weekend or whatever,
link |
01:33:25.840
the tribute show for Taylor Hawkins.
link |
01:33:27.960
Taylor Hawkins was the drummer for the Foo Fighters
link |
01:33:30.760
and he passed away tragically
link |
01:33:32.840
and so the Foo Fighters, Dave Grohl
link |
01:33:36.240
and everybody that got together this concert.
link |
01:33:38.120
And you're watching Dave Grohl
link |
01:33:42.120
sing, try to sing times like these, right?
link |
01:33:44.720
And he's breaking up
link |
01:33:45.880
because he lost his friend, his brother.
link |
01:33:48.520
And I was watching that and he's at Wembley Stadium.
link |
01:33:53.520
As I say this, I realized that I would not want to be him
link |
01:33:56.640
in that moment, but I am curious what that would be like.
link |
01:34:00.880
That's the ultimate like having to perform
link |
01:34:03.480
despite something extremely human happening
link |
01:34:06.200
and a stadium full of people that love Dave Grohl
link |
01:34:11.240
and love Taylor Hawkins and love a rock concert
link |
01:34:15.600
and love these artists that they're getting to see
link |
01:34:18.080
up on stage.
link |
01:34:19.400
So much love and so much pain at the same time.
link |
01:34:21.680
I wonder what that would be like to be, I guess,
link |
01:34:25.480
and I think that's just sort of coming from the root
link |
01:34:27.440
of being a performer and being in front of that many.
link |
01:34:31.480
Have you ever had to perform
link |
01:34:33.400
while some rough stuff is going on
link |
01:34:35.160
in your personal life, just mentally?
link |
01:34:37.520
Yeah, sure.
link |
01:34:38.360
Was that, how tough was that?
link |
01:34:40.720
I'm fortunate enough to be able to compartmentalize.
link |
01:34:47.640
A lot of actors like to use some of their stuff
link |
01:34:49.920
if you're doing something that,
link |
01:34:52.120
and there's a lot of, there's some acting techniques
link |
01:34:55.200
that sort of channel it.
link |
01:34:57.520
Yeah, which I think is kind of,
link |
01:35:01.480
I don't know that that's, I don't know.
link |
01:35:03.920
For me, it's not really the thing
link |
01:35:05.200
because I think if the writing is great,
link |
01:35:09.560
the writing is really good.
link |
01:35:10.840
You don't need to channel much.
link |
01:35:12.800
You need to invest in what's there
link |
01:35:15.280
and what I've always loved about that illusion
link |
01:35:19.600
is really cracking a scene,
link |
01:35:21.320
getting it to a point where you are feeling all of it.
link |
01:35:24.800
And the most edifying stuff I've been a part of
link |
01:35:27.640
as an actor, and I would say that it mostly
link |
01:35:31.040
comes out of dramatic work is when you actually feel
link |
01:35:38.640
the emotions that your character would feel, truly.
link |
01:35:41.640
And it's not because you're pulling
link |
01:35:42.840
from a tragic thing that happened
link |
01:35:44.480
or a lost love one or a lost love or any of that.
link |
01:35:48.400
I just did this one movie where we're doing the thing
link |
01:35:51.760
and it was a wonderful cast and a great film
link |
01:35:54.360
and I'm giving a speech at a wedding.
link |
01:35:58.400
And it really got to us.
link |
01:36:01.440
Like it got to me and then one of the other actors
link |
01:36:03.560
came up and hugged me in the characters that we were.
link |
01:36:08.760
And but the stakes of his character
link |
01:36:10.600
and what he's walked into and the family
link |
01:36:12.760
that he's marrying into and what my character
link |
01:36:17.400
and my character's wife want for my wife's sister
link |
01:36:21.160
and this whole thing, and it all became very real.
link |
01:36:24.320
That was a set where the director showed up to set
link |
01:36:26.800
every day making sure that emotionally,
link |
01:36:29.280
and it was a very dramatic film,
link |
01:36:31.200
making sure that emotionally the table was set
link |
01:36:33.280
for his actors.
link |
01:36:34.440
Great crew and a really nice tight little quick family
link |
01:36:38.560
as a lot of these movies are.
link |
01:36:40.520
You really love working with these people
link |
01:36:42.600
and then it's over, but that's when you feel the drug.
link |
01:36:48.040
Like it's like when you're golfing and it's on the green,
link |
01:36:52.040
you're like, oh, I get it now.
link |
01:36:53.480
So in the words, you can find the emotion,
link |
01:36:57.360
the words summon the emotion.
link |
01:36:58.960
The humanities right there.
link |
01:37:00.080
If you read a great script,
link |
01:37:01.120
you're gonna sob in your living room.
link |
01:37:03.200
You know what the saddest, the toughest thing
link |
01:37:05.960
about being an actor is from my totally outside perspective
link |
01:37:09.720
is from the people I've interacted with
link |
01:37:12.680
is how intimate that process is
link |
01:37:16.040
between the group of people that create a thing.
link |
01:37:18.120
That's a movie.
link |
01:37:19.400
And then you move on to the next thing.
link |
01:37:21.800
It's almost, it's like, I don't know.
link |
01:37:25.040
I mean, that's why people have relationships on set.
link |
01:37:27.160
They fall in love.
link |
01:37:28.160
Totally.
link |
01:37:29.160
It's so sad.
link |
01:37:30.160
I mean, that's why I think of the acting world
link |
01:37:32.800
is like you fall in love with each other.
link |
01:37:35.880
Essentially, you become close friends and then you move on
link |
01:37:38.440
because that's kind of the process of career.
link |
01:37:40.560
You know, like the example I just gave,
link |
01:37:42.080
if you're doing it right,
link |
01:37:42.920
yeah, there is a certain amount of that happening,
link |
01:37:45.560
but I do still feel like you can,
link |
01:37:48.760
you gotta compartmentalize it
link |
01:37:50.560
and you've gotta be able to wash it off
link |
01:37:52.560
as soon as it's over.
link |
01:37:53.560
Prostitutes say the same thing.
link |
01:37:54.880
So I, that's why I try.
link |
01:37:57.360
Look, sometimes I'm in a hurry to get away from everybody
link |
01:38:03.240
because it's been very emotional.
link |
01:38:06.240
And with all love and respect to everyone,
link |
01:38:08.600
this was awesome, but you get pretty good at saying goodbye
link |
01:38:12.840
and being like, I'll see you if I see you,
link |
01:38:14.880
you have to get good at that.
link |
01:38:16.640
Or else you'll never, you'll just be bent up all the time.
link |
01:38:20.120
Yeah.
link |
01:38:20.960
I saw an actor once, we were doing this series
link |
01:38:23.280
and we did it for a year and it was a lot of fun
link |
01:38:27.160
and it was a tight little group.
link |
01:38:28.520
And then one of the actors,
link |
01:38:29.880
we were doing one of our last things together.
link |
01:38:32.120
We had already shot the last show
link |
01:38:33.600
and we just had to take some pictures for,
link |
01:38:35.760
you know, it's like some publicity pictures or whatever.
link |
01:38:39.000
So we're set up and we're taking our pictures together.
link |
01:38:41.600
And then we move into these single shots
link |
01:38:43.520
and this actor was finished and I watched them.
link |
01:38:46.840
It's like, okay, so and so is wrapped
link |
01:38:48.280
and they said some goodbyes and stuff
link |
01:38:51.240
and I didn't say my goodbye
link |
01:38:53.040
because I just, maybe I preferred an Irish goodbye.
link |
01:38:57.000
I feel like we've said everything, you know what I mean?
link |
01:38:59.440
And this person knows that I revere them
link |
01:39:01.080
and they're an idol of mine.
link |
01:39:03.440
And they walked out, walked off the sound stage
link |
01:39:07.560
and I literally thought to myself,
link |
01:39:10.320
I'll be the last time I see that person.
link |
01:39:12.320
And the show did not come back.
link |
01:39:14.720
And that was the last time, I don't know,
link |
01:39:16.000
I'll see them around.
link |
01:39:16.840
Did that just break your heart?
link |
01:39:18.480
A little bit, but I know what she's going back to
link |
01:39:23.480
which is her family.
link |
01:39:25.160
And that's more important than all of this.
link |
01:39:27.560
And that's the thing about a TV family
link |
01:39:30.560
or a movie family when you get together
link |
01:39:32.240
and you're a family for a while,
link |
01:39:34.680
you do, you are, you spend your days together.
link |
01:39:37.440
A lot of times you see the people that you work with
link |
01:39:39.240
more than you see your loved ones.
link |
01:39:40.840
So in showbiz, it's no different, right?
link |
01:39:43.120
And yeah, you're doing some, you know,
link |
01:39:44.920
you got to say words and every once in a while
link |
01:39:46.520
you got to kiss someone or pretend you love them.
link |
01:39:48.840
But it's just it underscores how for me,
link |
01:39:55.720
look man, my salvation has always been
link |
01:39:58.040
and I feel so fortunate to have had it
link |
01:40:00.800
is this kind of chill, boring kind of upbringing
link |
01:40:04.800
that I want for my kids someday.
link |
01:40:08.600
And I can't wait to get back to my house
link |
01:40:12.360
with my fiance and the dogs, you know,
link |
01:40:15.120
until we have kids and
link |
01:40:16.720
live in a cabin in Canada somewhere.
link |
01:40:20.040
Absolutely.
link |
01:40:20.880
I just want to buy some land over an aquifer,
link |
01:40:23.160
as I like to say, cause water will be the new money
link |
01:40:25.800
and just make sure that all my kids are drinking
link |
01:40:30.200
as much H2O as I am, which is a lot.
link |
01:40:33.600
I'm peeing right now as a matter of fact.
link |
01:40:35.880
Do you need a bathroom?
link |
01:40:37.800
No, no, no.
link |
01:40:38.640
Not anymore.
link |
01:40:39.480
No, I'm wearing two layers.
link |
01:40:40.320
It depends, don't worry about it.
link |
01:40:41.160
Good.
link |
01:40:42.000
So I did a podcast with Bobby Lee and he said,
link |
01:40:46.960
he was extremely kind and he said that he was
link |
01:40:49.320
scare shitless to be on the podcast.
link |
01:40:52.760
And he actually literally took,
link |
01:40:55.600
he asked as the first thing to go take a dump
link |
01:40:58.480
because of how scared he was.
link |
01:41:00.320
So that leads me to a question.
link |
01:41:01.520
What's the scariest thing you've ever done?
link |
01:41:04.640
Or maybe what's the scariest you've ever been
link |
01:41:07.520
before performance?
link |
01:41:08.800
I mean, I always get a little nervous.
link |
01:41:13.320
I think you're doing it right if you're still nervous,
link |
01:41:15.320
you know?
link |
01:41:16.160
What are you nervous today?
link |
01:41:18.360
Well, no, man,
link |
01:41:19.200
cause this isn't a performance
link |
01:41:20.240
I'm being completely genuine.
link |
01:41:21.800
Yeah.
link |
01:41:22.640
You're wearing a suit.
link |
01:41:23.840
Yeah, that was,
link |
01:41:24.680
I feel like that makes you nervous.
link |
01:41:26.480
Wearing a suit?
link |
01:41:27.320
It makes me nervous.
link |
01:41:28.160
Listen, I hate wearing a fucking collar.
link |
01:41:29.560
If you're watching this on YouTube,
link |
01:41:30.920
because you see me just constantly doing,
link |
01:41:33.640
it's like I'm doing like a cheap Rodney Dangerfield,
link |
01:41:36.280
but I am truly.
link |
01:41:37.120
But when you move your head,
link |
01:41:38.080
it kind of makes it seem like you're like a mobster
link |
01:41:40.760
who's pissed off a little bit.
link |
01:41:42.720
You fucking crossed me one last time.
link |
01:41:44.880
You, you know,
link |
01:41:46.720
this mutt,
link |
01:41:48.920
I think it's the first time I've dug a hole,
link |
01:41:50.520
I'll take a fucking hole.
link |
01:41:52.040
Jesus.
link |
01:41:53.360
No, but truly I hate having a collar.
link |
01:41:55.920
I can't wait to just wear pajamas in that fucking cabin
link |
01:41:59.440
or nothing at all, walk around Bobby Lee style.
link |
01:42:02.520
The most scared I've been before a performance,
link |
01:42:05.760
I can't pinpoint, I can't pinpoint anything.
link |
01:42:09.640
I, I, you know, when I was a kid, right?
link |
01:42:12.760
I, like I said,
link |
01:42:14.640
I was fortunate enough to start acting
link |
01:42:16.000
as a teen and stuff professionally.
link |
01:42:18.560
And I just remember my first gig
link |
01:42:20.640
and I remember saying my handful of lines
link |
01:42:23.920
in the bathroom mirror the night before going,
link |
01:42:28.240
this might be my only fucking shot.
link |
01:42:30.160
You're not gonna get me.
link |
01:42:31.160
I'm gonna be solid.
link |
01:42:33.440
And I, when I'm, if I'm worried about something,
link |
01:42:37.720
I will rehearse it and rehearse it and rehearse it
link |
01:42:40.360
as an actor until it's impossible for me
link |
01:42:43.400
not to get a take at least that I'm 100%,
link |
01:42:48.360
if not 95 maybe percent happy with.
link |
01:42:52.120
And the rest for me is letting go,
link |
01:42:53.600
which is hard because I can be a real perfectionist.
link |
01:42:56.880
I always want another,
link |
01:42:58.600
I always want to do it a little better.
link |
01:43:00.600
That's what's great about podcasting.
link |
01:43:01.920
It's one take and you're done.
link |
01:43:03.240
There's no takes.
link |
01:43:05.200
You're just talking and then it's over
link |
01:43:07.200
and you're doing some silly stuff.
link |
01:43:09.560
And I'll, I'll, you know.
link |
01:43:11.720
Can you say that part again about why podcasting is great?
link |
01:43:14.520
Podcasting is great.
link |
01:43:15.440
Yeah, cause it's one take and it's over.
link |
01:43:17.040
It's just, it's, what?
link |
01:43:19.680
I said it again.
link |
01:43:20.520
Ah, fuck.
link |
01:43:22.280
I see what you did.
link |
01:43:23.800
And I, yeah, I fell right for it, but.
link |
01:43:25.840
I'm playing checkers and you're playing chess.
link |
01:43:27.880
That's your problem.
link |
01:43:29.720
You know, but still when we do the podcast,
link |
01:43:32.560
we'll like finish and I'll look over a chat and I go,
link |
01:43:34.920
that one thing that I did wasn't that fun.
link |
01:43:37.040
He's like, shut up, man.
link |
01:43:38.400
Just, it doesn't matter.
link |
01:43:40.120
It's a fucking hang.
link |
01:43:41.400
We're just, we're hanging with our friends out there.
link |
01:43:43.840
That's what we're doing.
link |
01:43:44.800
So that anxiety is there.
link |
01:43:46.600
That self criticism or whatever that is, that voice.
link |
01:43:49.360
I say sorry after takes.
link |
01:43:51.120
I'll always finish a take and go.
link |
01:43:53.320
And I've had directors, to the detriment of myself,
link |
01:43:56.320
I've had directors be like, stop doing that.
link |
01:43:59.440
Cause I'll like finish a take and then I also have like
link |
01:44:01.440
the will face when I'm just like, I'll finish take
link |
01:44:04.040
and cut and I'm making a face right now.
link |
01:44:07.160
Like I smelled something and that's what I'll do.
link |
01:44:09.280
I'll literally be like, because I just, I look at,
link |
01:44:16.480
I look at what I do in the purest sense as,
link |
01:44:23.280
I think a lot of people want to be good at something.
link |
01:44:26.440
I've only, the only thing I've ever really wanted
link |
01:44:30.120
to be good at is being an actor.
link |
01:44:33.920
And that's, that's the only thing.
link |
01:44:37.120
Of course I want to be a good person.
link |
01:44:38.640
I want to be a good partner to my fiance.
link |
01:44:41.360
I want to have kids and be the father that I had
link |
01:44:45.120
and I want to be the parent that I had from my parents
link |
01:44:48.760
who were fucking amazing, wonderful people.
link |
01:44:51.680
And there's all those things.
link |
01:44:53.520
That's all, that's all, you know,
link |
01:44:54.960
you should want all those things.
link |
01:44:56.240
But as far as doing a thing, like what is my,
link |
01:44:59.240
what is my trade, you know?
link |
01:45:01.360
I want to be really good at it.
link |
01:45:04.760
My parents grew up in Napoli in Italy, right?
link |
01:45:08.240
And I say Napoli because I'm Italian.
link |
01:45:10.520
And so my grandfather and my mom's side, my nono pepe,
link |
01:45:13.640
he was a plumber and he was also,
link |
01:45:16.840
he was also like a handyman.
link |
01:45:18.280
Like people would bring him like,
link |
01:45:20.160
you know, like the old Chianti bottle
link |
01:45:21.560
with like, with the woven bottom part.
link |
01:45:23.680
Like people would bring him like a broken bottle.
link |
01:45:26.440
Be like, hey, you know, Giuseppe, can you fix this?
link |
01:45:29.040
And he'd be saying, yeah.
link |
01:45:29.880
I feel like you're telling the backstory of Mario.
link |
01:45:31.560
That's not actually your family life.
link |
01:45:33.160
Yeah, yeah.
link |
01:45:34.000
But okay, yeah.
link |
01:45:34.840
He's like, I'm a fix.
link |
01:45:35.680
Yeah.
link |
01:45:36.520
And so Giuseppe, what?
link |
01:45:37.440
He would fix a bottle and give it back to someone.
link |
01:45:40.200
And he was a, he was a really good plumber.
link |
01:45:43.280
My mom used to always say, that guy was an amazing,
link |
01:45:45.560
he was a great.
link |
01:45:46.640
He took pride in that?
link |
01:45:47.560
Yeah.
link |
01:45:48.400
I always feel like, you know,
link |
01:45:51.600
there's what you set out to do
link |
01:45:53.520
as an idealistic little teenager is,
link |
01:45:55.560
I don't want to be like so and so.
link |
01:45:57.200
And I want to, you know, hear my big dreams and stuff.
link |
01:46:00.400
And I can't believe that I'm still in the business.
link |
01:46:02.960
Okay. That's, first of all, let me say that right now.
link |
01:46:06.480
I can't believe it.
link |
01:46:08.400
But what I really, it's the one thing that it's like,
link |
01:46:13.200
I can't give up on a take, you know?
link |
01:46:15.560
I need it to be as good as I can possibly get it.
link |
01:46:18.560
And I don't really know why that is
link |
01:46:21.200
outside of wanting to be good at something.
link |
01:46:24.400
When you open the yellow pages, if I'm a plumber,
link |
01:46:27.400
I'm not, you know, I, I'm not rotor rooter.
link |
01:46:30.280
Like I'm not the guy with the big full page ad,
link |
01:46:32.760
but I'm also not, you know, AAA abacus brothers
link |
01:46:36.760
or whatever, like the shitty one.
link |
01:46:38.920
I would like to hope that just,
link |
01:46:42.160
and I'm saying this with pride for what I do.
link |
01:46:44.640
I'm not trying to say here's my standing
link |
01:46:46.400
or where I want to be in the fucking business.
link |
01:46:48.480
That's not what I mean.
link |
01:46:49.880
I mean that I want to be good at it.
link |
01:46:51.600
You know, we all, hello.
link |
01:46:53.720
Friedman Enterprises, so that's the hotel phone.
link |
01:47:08.920
You have some fruit?
link |
01:47:12.000
Some sliced fruit?
link |
01:47:12.840
No, do you want some sliced fruit?
link |
01:47:14.320
I'm all good.
link |
01:47:15.160
No, we're good, thank you so much.
link |
01:47:17.120
All right, bye bye.
link |
01:47:18.440
It's always a fruit plate.
link |
01:47:20.760
Everyone's always trying to hand you a fruit plate in life,
link |
01:47:23.120
you know?
link |
01:47:23.960
It's a pretty sweet existence.
link |
01:47:24.800
It would be funny if those actually like the CIA
link |
01:47:26.480
and they were actually saying something else
link |
01:47:28.040
and this is, I'm just saying fake stuff about it.
link |
01:47:30.120
You want some fruit?
link |
01:47:31.120
Yeah, I want some fruit.
link |
01:47:32.120
And then all of a sudden there's the red dot on my head
link |
01:47:33.960
and the ceiling disappears.
link |
01:47:35.480
And the CIA was like, wrap it up, wrap it up, wrap it up.
link |
01:47:38.680
Wrap it up.
link |
01:47:40.280
You jump out the window
link |
01:47:41.200
and there's a helicopter waiting.
link |
01:47:43.440
Oh, what were we talking about?
link |
01:47:45.200
The food distracted me.
link |
01:47:46.240
So, oh, the, do you want to be the yellow page ad?
link |
01:47:50.880
I want to be the guy on the second or third page
link |
01:47:54.560
where it's like, you're not going to pay
link |
01:47:56.960
what that guy charges you,
link |
01:47:58.040
but we're not going to charge you with this loser charge.
link |
01:48:02.080
I want to break down the middle
link |
01:48:03.360
and the work is guaranteed.
link |
01:48:05.200
That's kind of what I want to,
link |
01:48:07.640
it's the one thing that I've been fortunate enough
link |
01:48:10.960
to be doing my whole life
link |
01:48:11.880
and that I want to be good at.
link |
01:48:15.400
Everyone wants to be good at something.
link |
01:48:16.680
If you're fortunate enough to be able to do what you love
link |
01:48:20.080
is a job.
link |
01:48:20.920
I mean, my God, I'm so, again,
link |
01:48:23.800
I can't believe I get to do it.
link |
01:48:25.320
I just want to be good at it
link |
01:48:26.520
so that I can fucking die some day and go,
link |
01:48:31.000
I tried not to give up on a take
link |
01:48:32.920
and I will rehearse it still in the bathroom mirror
link |
01:48:37.120
the night before if I have to.
link |
01:48:39.400
Yeah, but I still, I have that self critical voice.
link |
01:48:41.760
I just, after this podcast,
link |
01:48:45.640
I'll probably be like, you're boring.
link |
01:48:48.160
Why are you so boring?
link |
01:48:49.320
What are you talking about?
link |
01:48:50.800
And I just gave a lecture at MIT.
link |
01:48:53.080
I was like, I got so much love from people.
link |
01:48:56.880
They're such beautiful people.
link |
01:48:59.120
And I just remember walking home,
link |
01:49:02.760
just feeling like I wasted everybody's time.
link |
01:49:07.120
And I don't know what that is.
link |
01:49:09.400
I don't, you know, I do hope that that's a voice
link |
01:49:11.800
that won't destroy me, you know, like over time.
link |
01:49:14.960
That's really human of you to admit that
link |
01:49:16.960
is people don't want to, they wouldn't assume that,
link |
01:49:20.280
of course, from you or anything that,
link |
01:49:22.440
I mean, you've got a large group of students
link |
01:49:26.080
in there listening to you and feeling the way
link |
01:49:28.200
and thinking what they think of you.
link |
01:49:31.120
So that's really interesting to hear you admit that,
link |
01:49:34.160
but it's also, I would expect nothing else.
link |
01:49:36.640
You have to be able to, it's such a,
link |
01:49:39.160
I mean, you're a human fucking being.
link |
01:49:40.640
And I'm trying to figure out if that, you know,
link |
01:49:43.480
some people that might hear that, they would say,
link |
01:49:45.080
well, that's a problem you have to fix.
link |
01:49:47.240
And I think that that might be just who I am.
link |
01:49:52.440
Yeah.
link |
01:49:53.280
Because I'm not, you know, I've been very, very fortunate
link |
01:49:55.760
not to have chemical, you know, like a depression
link |
01:49:59.800
where I get into a dark place,
link |
01:50:01.520
like it gets stuck in the downward spiral.
link |
01:50:04.480
It's usually a thing that lasts, you ride it out,
link |
01:50:07.720
and then after a good night's sleep,
link |
01:50:10.400
you're back to your happy self.
link |
01:50:13.640
So I think I have to try to figure that out.
link |
01:50:17.920
Is that just part of the creative process,
link |
01:50:19.600
being a creative human in this world?
link |
01:50:21.920
I haven't found any other way.
link |
01:50:23.520
I'm always kicking myself.
link |
01:50:24.680
Take that, doozy.
link |
01:50:25.640
You can't, you can't, you're not gonna be human
link |
01:50:29.680
until you feel some despair.
link |
01:50:30.960
Yeah, until you absolutely hate the shit
link |
01:50:33.400
that you're doing sometimes.
link |
01:50:36.120
What small act of kindness
link |
01:50:37.960
where you once shown that you'll never forget?
link |
01:50:40.920
Do you, there's something jumped to mind
link |
01:50:42.800
where somebody just did something that made you smile?
link |
01:50:47.840
Made you feel connected to the rest of humanity?
link |
01:50:52.600
Yeah, yeah, lots of things, you know?
link |
01:50:57.680
But I remember my niece one time,
link |
01:51:00.280
one of my nieces, we were in her neighborhood,
link |
01:51:04.520
and she was like, she might've been five or six at the time.
link |
01:51:09.320
They're all adults now.
link |
01:51:10.600
My brother and sister are older than me
link |
01:51:12.240
and the kids are all, the youngest is 22.
link |
01:51:15.160
And yeah, anyway, one of my nieces, she was just,
link |
01:51:18.280
she had ice cream, we went out and we got ice cream
link |
01:51:20.160
walking around the neighborhood, her neighborhood.
link |
01:51:22.240
And she said something to me
link |
01:51:24.720
that I don't think she understands
link |
01:51:26.480
how much it meant at the time, but she goes,
link |
01:51:28.400
she goes, people love you here.
link |
01:51:30.440
You know that?
link |
01:51:31.400
And she doesn't know where here is, she's five years old.
link |
01:51:34.560
But she was just looking at the kids playing in the park
link |
01:51:36.880
and the people walking their dogs
link |
01:51:38.360
and everyone just walking.
link |
01:51:39.720
People love you here, you know that?
link |
01:51:41.320
But she didn't know how much I needed to hear that
link |
01:51:43.400
at that point, which is really heavy for me.
link |
01:51:46.000
I'll never forget it.
link |
01:51:47.080
I've never told her that, oh well.
link |
01:51:49.400
And anytime you get a little something from people,
link |
01:51:53.000
especially in a tear your ass out city like LA
link |
01:51:56.240
where nobody has any fucking time for you,
link |
01:51:58.680
when someone can slow it down and say something, you know?
link |
01:52:02.720
I saw this actor once in my grocery store that I go to,
link |
01:52:07.960
who made me laugh so fucking hard in this one movie
link |
01:52:10.960
and every time I see this clip, I still laugh.
link |
01:52:13.600
And I am kind of shy, you know, personally,
link |
01:52:17.280
but so he was walking by, he was walking out
link |
01:52:20.600
and I was walking in and I go, oh, that's that guy.
link |
01:52:23.080
And I did not stop to just let him know
link |
01:52:27.440
how great I thought he was in this film.
link |
01:52:29.280
And I always kind of regretted it, you know what I mean?
link |
01:52:31.840
So as hard as it is, and sometimes I still don't,
link |
01:52:35.040
if I see someone that has done something in, you know,
link |
01:52:38.480
in any way it doesn't have to be in show business
link |
01:52:40.760
or anything like that, I'll try and say,
link |
01:52:44.440
hey, that's really good, you know what I mean?
link |
01:52:48.720
Because to get that from someone can mean a lot, you know?
link |
01:52:54.600
It can mean a lot.
link |
01:52:55.440
At a certain time in life when you need it,
link |
01:52:57.880
that can make a big difference.
link |
01:52:59.560
I mean, I'm sorry to take it back
link |
01:53:02.480
to my new girlfriend, the waitress.
link |
01:53:04.280
Oh yeah, yeah.
link |
01:53:05.120
But she, there's something about her saying sweetheart.
link |
01:53:08.320
Yeah.
link |
01:53:09.160
And it was a pretty low place for some reason mentally.
link |
01:53:11.560
And just that, their basic human kindness was nice.
link |
01:53:14.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
link |
01:53:16.520
I hear you.
link |
01:53:17.360
I was at a restaurant in New York recently
link |
01:53:21.120
and I was shooting something
link |
01:53:22.320
and my fiance was able to fly in for a week.
link |
01:53:25.080
And but she was back at the hotel
link |
01:53:27.920
and it's like, I felt like I was cheating on her
link |
01:53:29.480
because there was this nice waitress
link |
01:53:31.360
at this barbecue place I went to.
link |
01:53:33.280
And first of all, my fiance would not like me
link |
01:53:35.480
eating any greasy, sugary barbecue.
link |
01:53:37.640
So I felt like I was cheating on there.
link |
01:53:39.200
We'll edit this out
link |
01:53:40.040
and put delicious vegan food over it.
link |
01:53:42.280
But the waitress was one of these,
link |
01:53:44.680
she was this, the kind of server who's like,
link |
01:53:47.560
hey, hun, they, hey, sweetie, like blah, blah, blah.
link |
01:53:49.680
But like so chill and at ease
link |
01:53:52.960
in the middle of a part of New York
link |
01:53:54.520
that's really kind of fucking pretentious and everybody.
link |
01:53:59.520
But sweet people, fucking way better people than we got here.
link |
01:54:04.160
But I know that.
link |
01:54:07.160
But as part of New York and whatever,
link |
01:54:09.280
I'm there working and people,
link |
01:54:10.760
I'm like, I've been trying to impress one another.
link |
01:54:12.840
And she even had some sort of an accent
link |
01:54:15.800
that was not, didn't feel like an Atlantic American accent.
link |
01:54:21.480
Yeah, though those, yeah.
link |
01:54:23.560
Servers that say sweetheart and hun,
link |
01:54:26.360
that's what we need from AI.
link |
01:54:28.040
We need that Jetson server.
link |
01:54:30.520
Every once in a while just calls you sweetheart.
link |
01:54:33.320
What comforts you on bad days?
link |
01:54:36.240
Oh man.
link |
01:54:37.080
Is there a little sources of comfort?
link |
01:54:39.480
Small things they do that kind of make you feel good.
link |
01:54:43.160
Like for Bobby, that'd be a little Skyrim.
link |
01:54:45.920
Little stroll through Skyrim.
link |
01:54:48.760
Well, I, I've been.
link |
01:54:50.400
A line of coke or what?
link |
01:54:51.680
Yeah, a line of, I dilute some coke into whiskey
link |
01:54:54.560
in the morning like Stevie Ray Vaughan.
link |
01:54:56.480
And then I snored the whiskey.
link |
01:54:57.480
I did that, I didn't know that.
link |
01:54:58.560
Yeah, yeah.
link |
01:54:59.400
Oh my gosh.
link |
01:55:00.240
That's interesting.
link |
01:55:01.080
Yeah, he didn't last too long, weird.
link |
01:55:02.240
Well his music will last forever.
link |
01:55:03.680
Hey, see, there you go.
link |
01:55:06.120
For me, if I, I'm kind of a homebody.
link |
01:55:10.840
So if I, the point at which I smoke just a little bit of pot
link |
01:55:17.600
and then go like lay down on the couch
link |
01:55:21.120
and perhaps if my fiance is kind of nodding off
link |
01:55:26.400
or she's just like looking at her phone
link |
01:55:28.040
and I sneakily turn on some wrestling, okay?
link |
01:55:30.920
Cause I grew up watching wrestling
link |
01:55:32.600
and that stuff, it's the Skyrim effect.
link |
01:55:35.120
I mean, you want to talk about a complete escape.
link |
01:55:37.840
This stuff makes no sense in the world.
link |
01:55:40.040
It's an art form that is so uniquely weird,
link |
01:55:43.880
but at the same time, so everyone, when it's good,
link |
01:55:49.520
everyone is invested in the illusion, even the audience.
link |
01:55:54.040
They cheer the good guys, they boo the bad guys.
link |
01:55:57.000
So if I'm like that and then I got our two cute little dogs
link |
01:55:59.880
there and I'm annoying my little dog, Lulio,
link |
01:56:02.240
and you know, trying to kiss him right on the fucking mouth.
link |
01:56:05.040
And I've had a little bit of pot and the dog's like,
link |
01:56:06.720
stop, pot's not good for me.
link |
01:56:09.280
Of course, don't ever blow pot into your dog's face.
link |
01:56:11.400
That's a small comfort.
link |
01:56:13.720
I guess that's a handful of things.
link |
01:56:15.600
No, that moment painted, that was like a little painting.
link |
01:56:19.000
What about you?
link |
01:56:24.520
You're not supposed to do this.
link |
01:56:25.880
Well.
link |
01:56:26.720
You're not supposed to do this.
link |
01:56:28.480
That's a good question.
link |
01:56:29.920
Yeah, it's a tough question.
link |
01:56:32.240
I would say, I would say programming robots.
link |
01:56:39.640
There's bringing to life, actually programming at all.
link |
01:56:43.560
So I don't know how familiar you are with programming,
link |
01:56:47.000
but you write some text on a page, right, on a screen
link |
01:56:53.560
and it's brought to life, like it does something.
link |
01:56:56.440
And that's kind of, that's a really tiny version
link |
01:57:01.400
of maybe having a child.
link |
01:57:03.760
Like you created something that is not living.
link |
01:57:08.120
Yeah.
link |
01:57:08.960
In some smaller big way with embodied robots
link |
01:57:11.440
that are like robots that's especially clear.
link |
01:57:14.920
And for some reason that's a source of comfort for me.
link |
01:57:19.320
That the power of programming,
link |
01:57:22.640
but also the elegance of programming,
link |
01:57:24.280
just the whole thing.
link |
01:57:25.320
That's the source.
link |
01:57:26.160
It's a source of happiness.
link |
01:57:29.040
There's so many things.
link |
01:57:30.080
I've been very blessed with enjoying anything.
link |
01:57:34.080
Like that's part of the struggle I have in life
link |
01:57:36.360
is that the simple stuff is a source
link |
01:57:38.440
of a lot of happiness for me,
link |
01:57:39.960
which leads to a lot of laziness.
link |
01:57:42.440
So I have to like give myself artificial deadlines.
link |
01:57:45.840
I have to be freaking out on purpose
link |
01:57:48.160
in order to be productive in this world at all.
link |
01:57:50.920
You seem like an extremely dutiful busy guy.
link |
01:57:53.920
No.
link |
01:57:54.760
No, I am, but because I'm constantly creating
link |
01:57:57.520
artificial stress and deadlines
link |
01:58:01.400
and all that kind of stuff.
link |
01:58:02.600
Otherwise I would just sit there looking at a tree happy.
link |
01:58:05.480
Come truly happy with everything.
link |
01:58:08.640
That's awesome.
link |
01:58:09.800
Yeah.
link |
01:58:10.640
Gee whiz.
link |
01:58:11.880
That's not for that.
link |
01:58:13.240
That's the line of coke in the whiskey in the morning.
link |
01:58:15.920
Yeah.
link |
01:58:16.760
That's the thing that does the trick.
link |
01:58:18.600
Give you rave on breakfast shake.
link |
01:58:20.960
By the way, one of my most favorite guitars.
link |
01:58:23.120
I play guitar too.
link |
01:58:23.960
That's the source of comfort.
link |
01:58:24.800
Oh yeah, I have seen you play some guitar.
link |
01:58:26.320
That's awesome.
link |
01:58:27.160
Who's the greatest wrestler of all time?
link |
01:58:29.000
Greatest in ring performer of all time
link |
01:58:30.760
is Brett the Hitman Hart.
link |
01:58:32.200
What's the difference in ring versus?
link |
01:58:33.880
Well, there's many facets to the art form.
link |
01:58:36.960
A lot of people are great on the mic,
link |
01:58:39.320
but they're not so great once they get in the ring.
link |
01:58:41.800
A lot of people have all the showmanship and stuff,
link |
01:58:44.960
but then they're not necessarily, it's a wonderful package,
link |
01:58:48.600
but then they get to the ring or they open their mouth
link |
01:58:50.640
and there's nothing going on.
link |
01:58:52.000
So who's the greatest in ring performer?
link |
01:58:53.800
I think the greatest in ring is Brett Hart.
link |
01:58:56.120
I don't think there's anyone better
link |
01:58:57.280
than Brett the Hitman Hart.
link |
01:59:00.960
What makes him so good?
link |
01:59:02.760
Well, he...
link |
01:59:03.600
I think I had an action figure of him in Russia
link |
01:59:06.640
and we didn't know what the hell that was.
link |
01:59:08.200
Sure, yeah, it was just a guy in pink tights.
link |
01:59:11.680
Everything makes sense.
link |
01:59:12.600
Every single thing is rooted in the thing that just happened
link |
01:59:16.320
and everything that he does is to set up
link |
01:59:18.880
what he's going to do.
link |
01:59:20.960
They call it, and I'm just a wrestling nerd,
link |
01:59:22.880
but the wrestlers, I guess, call it ring psychology.
link |
01:59:26.480
The things that you have to do to make it seem
link |
01:59:29.200
like you're suffering or you're coming from behind
link |
01:59:32.040
or whatever, and then also just the physicality of it.
link |
01:59:34.200
He does it at a...
link |
01:59:35.200
He would do it at a 100 miles an hour
link |
01:59:38.080
and never hurt anybody.
link |
01:59:40.080
Although, you know, I also love...
link |
01:59:45.680
The greatest wrestler of all time, everyone says,
link |
01:59:47.840
and they're right, is Rick Flair, Nature Boy Rick Flair.
link |
01:59:51.880
Everyone says this?
link |
01:59:53.000
Yeah, I think if you know what you're talking about.
link |
01:59:56.200
Cause he's the best on the mic.
link |
01:59:57.520
He's also incredible in the ring.
link |
02:00:00.320
And then for me, the sentimental favorite,
link |
02:00:02.080
which we've actually, on Dudezy, Chad had sort of a
link |
02:00:06.600
Charlie Rose ask interview with me about this,
link |
02:00:09.240
my fascination with Hulk Hogan.
link |
02:00:11.280
Because to me, just he was Superman.
link |
02:00:13.000
I was a little kid and I saw him and that's imprinted.
link |
02:00:16.200
But yeah, see, this is like asking me
link |
02:00:18.120
who my favorite child is.
link |
02:00:20.120
Right, so... The rock, when the rock was...
link |
02:00:23.400
I mean, the rock's the rock.
link |
02:00:24.600
Yeah, yeah, I mean, Hulk Hogan is...
link |
02:00:29.240
He's the weirdest one, right?
link |
02:00:31.080
For me, from the outside.
link |
02:00:32.520
It's super weird.
link |
02:00:34.040
That, I don't know what that is exactly, it's...
link |
02:00:37.640
Everything's weird about him.
link |
02:00:38.880
Yeah. He's got the bald head,
link |
02:00:40.640
like he would proudly have this bald head with long hair,
link |
02:00:44.840
the handlebar mustache in this catch up and mustard,
link |
02:00:48.240
you know, tights, which he says he credits McDonald's
link |
02:00:52.120
with the tights.
link |
02:00:52.960
He literally does.
link |
02:00:54.080
He says that the red and yellow came from Angelo Poffo,
link |
02:00:57.960
who's Randy Macho Man Savage and Lanny Poffo's dad,
link |
02:01:01.720
who was a wrestler and a promoter.
link |
02:01:03.960
He said that he saw him wearing yellow
link |
02:01:06.120
and he's a Tampa guy, so he had that brown skin
link |
02:01:08.920
and the hair and everything.
link |
02:01:10.560
So he's like, oh, that's what I wanna do.
link |
02:01:11.880
And also the brand recognition of like,
link |
02:01:14.320
well, I should do it like McDonald's, literally.
link |
02:01:17.480
And he's a big, you know, swollen muscular guy
link |
02:01:22.200
with tan brown skin screaming at me
link |
02:01:25.000
to eat my vitamins and stuff when I'm eight years old.
link |
02:01:28.120
That was extremely, yeah, he's like Superman.
link |
02:01:32.240
But I know there's a person behind that guy.
link |
02:01:34.240
Yeah. You know?
link |
02:01:35.080
What do you mean?
link |
02:01:36.120
Well, he's Terry Bolea, the dude who, you know,
link |
02:01:40.800
does whatever the fuck he does with his life.
link |
02:01:42.560
You know what I mean?
link |
02:01:43.400
Yeah, complicated life.
link |
02:01:45.240
Yeah, I guess, to be him, yeah.
link |
02:01:48.720
Maybe you should change the dude's colors to yellow, right?
link |
02:01:52.680
Red and yellow.
link |
02:01:53.520
It's currently orange and, boy, sky blue.
link |
02:01:57.360
Yeah, it's like a nice sky blue.
link |
02:02:00.640
What advice, since you're wearing a suit,
link |
02:02:04.000
I feel like you're qualified to give advice.
link |
02:02:05.960
What advice would you give to young people?
link |
02:02:08.440
High school, college, about how to have a career
link |
02:02:11.800
they can be proud of
link |
02:02:13.480
or how to have a life they can be proud of.
link |
02:02:15.840
I mean, you have to listen to your gut all the time.
link |
02:02:19.640
That's the only, that's the compass that we have
link |
02:02:22.360
is listening to your gut.
link |
02:02:23.760
What did your gut tell you?
link |
02:02:25.120
This is, was that originally the dream of being an actor?
link |
02:02:28.800
Yeah, for me.
link |
02:02:29.880
Your parents support that at all?
link |
02:02:32.600
I had the advantage of having parents who were immigrants
link |
02:02:36.200
so they didn't really know a lot about what you.
link |
02:02:40.200
So you just made shit up?
link |
02:02:41.200
You just made shit up?
link |
02:02:42.040
Yeah, of course I'm studying and I'm skipping school
link |
02:02:44.160
to go do auditions and stuff.
link |
02:02:46.080
No, I just kind of feel like, you know,
link |
02:02:48.600
and I know it was different for my older siblings
link |
02:02:51.120
because my parents had just shown up in Canada.
link |
02:02:54.600
I was born like 10 years later.
link |
02:02:58.600
You can get away with some things
link |
02:03:00.480
and you can actually, you know, I think my parents,
link |
02:03:04.600
they wanted us to, they didn't have a whole lot
link |
02:03:07.160
to tell us about what to do.
link |
02:03:09.160
They weren't gonna do that with us
link |
02:03:12.120
because they're in this brand new world
link |
02:03:14.280
and there's all these possibilities.
link |
02:03:16.480
And but there was a,
link |
02:03:20.720
there was something that they,
link |
02:03:22.080
I feel like they had to do,
link |
02:03:23.600
which was tell us to do what we love.
link |
02:03:25.560
If you love doing it, do it.
link |
02:03:28.200
And I feel like that's really served me
link |
02:03:31.280
and what I would tell young people is
link |
02:03:33.280
if you can find something you love
link |
02:03:35.720
and nowadays with the internet
link |
02:03:37.360
and finding other people that, you know,
link |
02:03:39.400
it's not like you need to find a lot of people anymore.
link |
02:03:43.120
You just need to find the people that dig what you dig.
link |
02:03:45.840
And if you can make a career
link |
02:03:47.360
out of doing something that you love,
link |
02:03:49.880
it's been said, it's a good thing, you know?
link |
02:03:54.440
How long did it take you to figure out
link |
02:03:56.440
that you really love acting?
link |
02:04:00.040
You know, because sometimes you have a dream
link |
02:04:02.080
and then you meet the dream meets reality, right?
link |
02:04:05.200
And then the reality might be much less pleasant
link |
02:04:07.800
and much darker than the dream.
link |
02:04:09.720
Well, the reality is less pleasant, you know?
link |
02:04:12.200
And there are things that happen during an experience
link |
02:04:16.160
of shooting something that you could take or leave, right?
link |
02:04:19.640
But the, you know, the part where you're on set
link |
02:04:24.000
and you've, you know, you've rehearsed for a minute
link |
02:04:26.960
or whatever, at least, you know, where you're supposed
link |
02:04:28.520
to stand and you know, all your lines show up,
link |
02:04:30.680
knowing everything, knowing what you're gonna do
link |
02:04:33.120
and what you aim to do.
link |
02:04:35.480
And those moments make it all worth it.
link |
02:04:38.840
When you're, you know, not to sound like a douchebag,
link |
02:04:41.680
but between act, you know, action and cut,
link |
02:04:44.680
that's the stuff that is, that makes me,
link |
02:04:49.440
that has me continuing to do what I do,
link |
02:04:52.960
aside from the fact that it's like,
link |
02:04:54.880
I don't know how to do anything else.
link |
02:04:56.640
You think you'll ever do like a dramatic,
link |
02:04:58.800
like a mob movie?
link |
02:05:00.520
Yeah, like the one of the inside game
link |
02:05:02.280
I was just talking about, or this is another movie,
link |
02:05:04.120
I just did, it was a little while ago,
link |
02:05:05.560
called American Woman, that was very heavy.
link |
02:05:08.800
And I love doing dramatic work, I love it, I love it.
link |
02:05:12.840
Yeah, and I played that in inside game,
link |
02:05:15.000
it was kind of a, you know, it was a,
link |
02:05:17.280
there was a mob element and the fellow was,
link |
02:05:20.720
well, you know, the story's here or there
link |
02:05:22.680
with regard to how deep into the,
link |
02:05:26.160
but well, he was a bookie, he was just running money.
link |
02:05:29.280
You know, he was making a lot of money for a lot of people
link |
02:05:31.840
and he figured out how to, you know,
link |
02:05:33.960
cook it with this dude who was an NBA ref
link |
02:05:37.600
and it's a very interesting documentary,
link |
02:05:40.520
the thing that they're just untold,
link |
02:05:42.440
under the untold series, they cover it.
link |
02:05:45.280
But getting to play that guy, that was a gas for me,
link |
02:05:50.240
because he's like a, you know,
link |
02:05:52.040
there was a lot of unsavory stuff
link |
02:05:54.400
and he's definitely the guy, the character in the movie,
link |
02:05:57.040
who is the wild card and you don't wanna necessarily
link |
02:06:00.840
mess with him.
link |
02:06:02.080
And I got to, by the way, this fellow,
link |
02:06:04.040
who was a real guy, speaking to him,
link |
02:06:07.280
it was just bizarre to hear, like I said to him,
link |
02:06:12.600
he was a little concerned about this and that, like, hey,
link |
02:06:14.880
you know, you say whatever the fuck you want in your movie,
link |
02:06:16.960
I got my book and I got this other fucking deal.
link |
02:06:19.280
But he goes, you know, I didn't do this
link |
02:06:21.400
and I didn't do that.
link |
02:06:22.400
And I'm like, yeah, all right, I got you.
link |
02:06:23.800
And he goes, yeah, I'm telling you, I'm talking to you,
link |
02:06:26.600
one of them, I did not do this, I did, okay?
link |
02:06:28.640
I'm just fucking telling you, do whatever the fuck you want
link |
02:06:30.640
in your movie, but this is what's up.
link |
02:06:32.360
And I said, you ever seen Goodfellas?
link |
02:06:33.520
He's like, yeah, I fucking love that movie.
link |
02:06:35.560
Cause he, like I said, he did some unsavory shit.
link |
02:06:38.240
And I go, you remember the scene where,
link |
02:06:41.760
where, you know, the guy, the neighbor,
link |
02:06:43.960
Lorraine Brocco's neighbor was, you know,
link |
02:06:46.280
made her uncomfortable and was touching on her
link |
02:06:48.320
and she goes to Ray Leota and he goes,
link |
02:06:50.880
where the fuck does this guy live?
link |
02:06:52.280
And then he go, and remember,
link |
02:06:53.440
and he walks across the street and pistol whips the dude.
link |
02:06:56.320
You touch her again, you're dead, do you hear me?
link |
02:06:59.040
Yeah, good scene. Don't shoot.
link |
02:07:00.560
Fucking great scene.
link |
02:07:01.600
He goes, I love that scene.
link |
02:07:03.520
I go, that's you.
link |
02:07:04.840
So you're doing shit that we know is terrible,
link |
02:07:07.640
but we love you.
link |
02:07:08.480
He goes, all right, I got it.
link |
02:07:09.680
And then I said, there's this one scene.
link |
02:07:11.560
I explained the scene to him where the,
link |
02:07:13.680
one of the mobsters, tough guys was in the window of the car
link |
02:07:18.240
and Jimmy, my character is very coked up at the time.
link |
02:07:21.800
And he's hemorrhaging money here and there
link |
02:07:23.600
and making bad bets cause he's getting sloppy.
link |
02:07:25.880
And this guy wants to bug him about some Jets Giants,
link |
02:07:28.440
bad or something.
link |
02:07:29.280
I'm like telling you fucking asshole, don't fucking do it.
link |
02:07:31.640
He's like, yeah, well, he's a fucking Giants.
link |
02:07:33.480
And in the scene, Jimmy, my character grabs him
link |
02:07:36.160
by the lapels and just smashes his face
link |
02:07:39.080
against the roof of the car.
link |
02:07:41.640
And I say this to Jimmy and he goes,
link |
02:07:45.160
oh yeah, I would have done that.
link |
02:07:46.320
That's not a fucking big deal.
link |
02:07:48.320
I wonder also the interaction.
link |
02:07:50.080
I wonder what the filming of,
link |
02:07:52.960
probably my favorite gambling movie is Casino
link |
02:07:56.520
with Joe Pesci and De Niro.
link |
02:07:59.440
Like when they're out in the desert yelling at each other.
link |
02:08:01.480
I wonder how many takes that is.
link |
02:08:03.320
Like, cause they, I don't know how scripted that is.
link |
02:08:07.080
I mean, it probably is a little bit,
link |
02:08:08.360
but like, I don't think you can script
link |
02:08:12.080
the performance that Joe Pesci does.
link |
02:08:14.400
Don't make a fuck out of me, Ace.
link |
02:08:16.080
Yeah.
link |
02:08:17.040
Like, I fucking brought you here.
link |
02:08:20.000
Yeah.
link |
02:08:20.840
He's just like pointing at that energy
link |
02:08:24.560
and they're standing there.
link |
02:08:25.720
And their friendship.
link |
02:08:26.560
And then De Niro is like that whole thing.
link |
02:08:29.920
And then in the pet, yeah, like that energy.
link |
02:08:33.000
What is that?
link |
02:08:33.840
I mean, they must, they somehow find it together.
link |
02:08:37.120
You could tell me that that was one take
link |
02:08:39.080
and I'd believe you.
link |
02:08:39.920
You could tell me that that was seven takes
link |
02:08:42.280
and I would believe you.
link |
02:08:43.120
I bet you all the takes had that energy.
link |
02:08:45.240
Like they were playing with it, right?
link |
02:08:46.640
They were, they were playing with that.
link |
02:08:50.160
Yeah.
link |
02:08:51.000
I mean, they took on a real personality
link |
02:08:55.160
in those scenes and really carried them forward.
link |
02:08:57.120
I mean, it's just a brilliant, brilliant performance.
link |
02:08:58.960
Doesn't get, like comedies, like mob movies
link |
02:09:01.760
probably don't get enough credit either
link |
02:09:04.080
because it's seen as like.
link |
02:09:05.520
Mob movies don't get enough credit, maybe.
link |
02:09:07.360
In the Oscars, I mean, like that kind of stuff.
link |
02:09:08.720
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
link |
02:09:10.000
Cause it seems like a trope.
link |
02:09:11.360
It's like giving a Western a,
link |
02:09:13.000
it's gotta be a hell of a Western or whatever.
link |
02:09:14.920
Cause it's like an old Hollywood trope.
link |
02:09:17.160
Yeah, no, I, that scene is so great.
link |
02:09:19.760
Cause they're never, they're at the height
link |
02:09:21.880
of their friendship in a way.
link |
02:09:24.280
And they're also pretty much about to let go of it
link |
02:09:27.560
and become enemies.
link |
02:09:28.760
And both things are happening at the same time.
link |
02:09:31.240
And, and Pesci drives them out to the desert.
link |
02:09:33.760
And if I remember correctly,
link |
02:09:35.960
the Nero's character, Ace Rothstein Rothschild,
link |
02:09:39.680
he says, I gave myself 50 50, whether I'm coming back.
link |
02:09:43.840
Yeah, it's such a good scene.
link |
02:09:45.240
It was a, usually my prospects of coming back
link |
02:09:48.320
from the desert would be 90 to 10 or something like that.
link |
02:09:51.560
But now it's the, this time I wasn't sure.
link |
02:09:54.200
And there's the car driving really fast.
link |
02:09:56.600
And then Joe Pesci is like, you motherfucker,
link |
02:09:58.640
you like whatever he was doing.
link |
02:10:00.240
But you are like, of course there's anti semitism.
link |
02:10:02.640
Yeah.
link |
02:10:03.640
We're not between friends.
link |
02:10:05.440
Who gives the shit?
link |
02:10:07.160
All that kind of stuff.
link |
02:10:08.200
Yeah, I mean, brilliant, brilliant performances.
link |
02:10:10.640
So yeah, I can understand why you love the art
link |
02:10:12.960
and putting it all out there and leaving it.
link |
02:10:15.040
It's fun.
link |
02:10:15.880
It's fun.
link |
02:10:16.720
And it's still fun.
link |
02:10:17.560
It's still crazy fun.
link |
02:10:19.080
If I go a while without getting a gig, you know,
link |
02:10:23.600
if I go a minute, then I end up and I work on something.
link |
02:10:27.760
I'm like, it's like, oh, I've been thirsty for this.
link |
02:10:32.360
Like I actually am really so happy.
link |
02:10:36.000
Even if it's something where it's like, you know,
link |
02:10:38.880
the things where this was a pain in the ass and that
link |
02:10:42.680
or whatever, you're on the road doing something
link |
02:10:44.640
and you know, anything, whatever, you lost your luggage
link |
02:10:46.880
or whatever the heck you've got going on
link |
02:10:48.640
in your day to day life that everyone brings to work
link |
02:10:52.520
and tries to let go of.
link |
02:10:54.400
Once we're doing the scene, oh man, it's the best.
link |
02:10:57.360
But you know, that said, you're a great actor,
link |
02:11:01.120
but I just think I speak for a lot of people
link |
02:11:03.920
that you're also, there's a charisma to you
link |
02:11:06.600
that's great to reveal in raw form in different podcasts.
link |
02:11:10.200
Oh, cheers, man.
link |
02:11:11.280
In the Dudezy 10 minute pod, just as a guest in podcasts,
link |
02:11:14.720
it's always really fun to watch you.
link |
02:11:17.080
Cheers.
link |
02:11:17.920
The way you have fun, the way you think, the raw,
link |
02:11:21.480
the raw Will Sasso, which is a nice compliment
link |
02:11:24.080
to your kind of acting role.
link |
02:11:25.920
That's really sweet.
link |
02:11:27.000
Yeah, cheers.
link |
02:11:27.920
Well, you know, look, you said, you know.
link |
02:11:32.160
You're making that face.
link |
02:11:33.240
I'm making that face.
link |
02:11:34.080
I'm making that after the take face.
link |
02:11:35.840
No, I love doing stuff off the cuff.
link |
02:11:38.160
That's kind of you to say.
link |
02:11:39.080
And I dig, I really do dig doing stuff
link |
02:11:42.680
in front of an audience because I love seeing,
link |
02:11:46.520
I don't give it to myself very often.
link |
02:11:48.560
If I'm doing, even if I'm, you know,
link |
02:11:50.440
I've done a bunch of multi camera sitcoms and stuff.
link |
02:11:52.800
Mad TV was shot in front of a live studio audience.
link |
02:11:55.280
You like that energy?
link |
02:11:56.440
I love it, but I can only hear them.
link |
02:11:58.760
You can't see them because of the lights,
link |
02:12:00.360
like it is in a lot of performances.
link |
02:12:02.840
And I would imagine with standup,
link |
02:12:05.400
it's, you know, you see the first couple of rows.
link |
02:12:08.640
I've done, I do this character that does standup
link |
02:12:11.880
and I used to take him out and do things with him
link |
02:12:14.440
and do little bits here and there.
link |
02:12:16.400
I haven't done it in like four or five years.
link |
02:12:18.520
I think the Bobby say that character opened up for Bobby.
link |
02:12:21.800
Yeah, but he said I have to do it as myself too.
link |
02:12:25.280
I think in that podcast, he's like,
link |
02:12:26.800
okay, you're going to come with me and open for me in Brea,
link |
02:12:29.560
but you have to do it as yourself.
link |
02:12:31.120
Did that ever happen? Fuck you.
link |
02:12:32.360
It did.
link |
02:12:33.200
And I did the character, you know,
link |
02:12:36.960
who's a character I came up with on 10 minute podcast.
link |
02:12:39.160
He's just this comedian, right?
link |
02:12:40.680
He calls himself an open mic veteran.
link |
02:12:42.960
You know, he's been doing open mics forever.
link |
02:12:44.560
And so I did it, it opening up for Bobby
link |
02:12:47.920
and he's like, you have to do some of it as yourself.
link |
02:12:50.840
So I just kind of did this bit
link |
02:12:52.080
where I would do some of his jokes
link |
02:12:53.640
and then I would take Lee Leon.
link |
02:12:55.440
It's silly.
link |
02:12:56.280
I got a fucking wig on and I take the wig off and I go,
link |
02:12:59.520
and as myself, I start explaining it.
link |
02:13:01.520
Hello, my name is Will.
link |
02:13:02.840
See, the reason that it's funny
link |
02:13:04.480
is because Arnold Schwarzenegger is always,
link |
02:13:08.040
he's in these movies and he's got the thick Austrian accent,
link |
02:13:11.160
but he's like, you know, my name is Ben Williams.
link |
02:13:13.240
I'm a cop from Colorado.
link |
02:13:15.880
No, you're not.
link |
02:13:17.240
And it doesn't make sense as the comedian character
link |
02:13:19.680
that I'm doing, because that character
link |
02:13:21.360
doesn't do impersonations.
link |
02:13:23.040
Okay, carrying on.
link |
02:13:24.680
And then I put the wig back on
link |
02:13:25.920
and go back into this dumb thing.
link |
02:13:28.040
And I don't think it was very good,
link |
02:13:29.800
but Bobby required it in order for me to open for him.
link |
02:13:32.760
He's like, you're not fucking doing it.
link |
02:13:34.040
So I'm not gonna get up on stage and not do,
link |
02:13:36.360
we agreed, I'll do it.
link |
02:13:38.080
But having been up there just in, you know, whatever,
link |
02:13:42.400
I've done it like a dozen fucking times or not
link |
02:13:44.640
a bunch of times, right?
link |
02:13:45.480
Like nothing.
link |
02:13:47.240
And you know, these comedians that go up every night,
link |
02:13:49.560
sometimes two times a night.
link |
02:13:51.920
It's, I will say, I love performing in front of people
link |
02:13:57.640
when I get the chance, but it's a specific thing
link |
02:14:02.920
that I just, I don't know, I gotta go back to this.
link |
02:14:07.920
It's like the providing value, you know?
link |
02:14:10.920
I think great standups are fucking incredible.
link |
02:14:13.320
I'll go, you know, when I've gone and watched standup,
link |
02:14:17.120
you know, there's your friend you're going to see,
link |
02:14:19.160
but then there's this other person
link |
02:14:20.560
who really speaks to you, you know what I mean?
link |
02:14:22.880
And if you like one comedian a night, that's a lot.
link |
02:14:27.600
Cause a comedy club is like a fucking crazy restaurant
link |
02:14:34.280
where there's no menu.
link |
02:14:36.160
And it's like, what would you like?
link |
02:14:38.040
There's nothing else like that.
link |
02:14:39.240
There's like, you don't go to like a music place.
link |
02:14:42.440
What do we got here?
link |
02:14:43.480
We got Christian metal and there's some world music
link |
02:14:45.840
and then there's a reggae thing
link |
02:14:47.520
and it's all rammed in together.
link |
02:14:50.440
Or you don't go to a restaurant.
link |
02:14:52.280
I'd love a nice steak.
link |
02:14:53.440
Cool.
link |
02:14:54.280
First, here's a bowl of fruit loops
link |
02:14:55.880
and then we got you a crudité
link |
02:14:57.960
and then this is our sushi tower.
link |
02:14:59.960
Well, what about the steak?
link |
02:15:00.920
Oh, the steak's coming.
link |
02:15:02.120
And then blah, blah, blah.
link |
02:15:03.200
Oh no, the steak got bumped.
link |
02:15:04.560
So there's no steak,
link |
02:15:05.800
but here's a fucking shitty store bought cheesecake,
link |
02:15:08.440
you know, and that's what comedians are up against.
link |
02:15:12.120
When they go into a place,
link |
02:15:13.400
it's like, I don't pair well with the poached salmon.
link |
02:15:16.320
You know, I'm chicken fingers.
link |
02:15:17.520
I already, I already am chicken fingers.
link |
02:15:20.120
So, you know, these great comedians
link |
02:15:22.600
that are able to go up on a night
link |
02:15:24.560
where poached salmon goes up and then it's like,
link |
02:15:26.840
fuck, you were also spicy.
link |
02:15:28.920
I got kicked to me.
link |
02:15:30.200
For me, even going to open mics,
link |
02:15:33.480
it could be a wonderful escape.
link |
02:15:36.040
Yeah.
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02:15:36.880
I mean, just laughing together with others can make you,
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02:15:40.920
I don't know, it just feels really good.
link |
02:15:42.520
When we've done like, you know, like,
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02:15:44.320
and I hope to do it with Dudezy,
link |
02:15:46.120
but like live podcasts or fun in front of groups of people,
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02:15:50.240
and you know, you talk to them afterwards
link |
02:15:52.040
and take some pictures and man, they are,
link |
02:15:54.920
they forgot what the fuck they got going on.
link |
02:15:57.560
And a lot of them got to go back to work the next day.
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02:15:59.720
It's a Wednesday or Thursday, you know?
link |
02:16:01.920
No, it's a lot of value.
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02:16:03.520
I'm fortunate enough to be busy doing my own bullshit.
link |
02:16:07.280
What's the meaning of life with Sasso?
link |
02:16:11.400
What is the meaning of life?
link |
02:16:12.240
Why, why are we here?
link |
02:16:13.080
Why, why, why?
link |
02:16:14.840
Was it the meaning of life?
link |
02:16:16.920
Wasn't, didn't they explain it at the end of meaning of life?
link |
02:16:19.400
I think it was Michael Palin that said,
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02:16:21.480
try to get a walk in, be nice to neighbors,
link |
02:16:24.440
eat enough fiber.
link |
02:16:25.480
Wasn't that the?
link |
02:16:26.320
Fiber, fiber is part of it?
link |
02:16:27.960
Yeah, I think it's nutrition.
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02:16:29.640
Have a bowl of bran in the morning
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02:16:31.560
and don't take yourself too seriously.
link |
02:16:35.200
Yeah.
link |
02:16:36.040
Well, no one gets out alive, I think is the.
link |
02:16:38.040
Herman Hasley, one of my favorite writers,
link |
02:16:39.640
he's a Nobel Prize winner in a book called Steppenwolf,
link |
02:16:44.960
says learn what is to be taken seriously
link |
02:16:47.200
and laugh at the rest.
link |
02:16:48.760
Oh, that's awesome.
link |
02:16:49.840
What's the percentage distribution on that?
link |
02:16:51.880
So how much of life should you take seriously?
link |
02:16:54.440
And then how much do you just laugh at?
link |
02:16:57.600
Oh man, if you can laugh at everything, you're winning.
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02:17:00.640
Yeah.
link |
02:17:01.480
But that's almost impossible.
link |
02:17:03.160
I think that there's, there's,
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02:17:05.840
and also could be quite irresponsible to do that.
link |
02:17:09.400
I take things, I take a lot of things way too seriously.
link |
02:17:13.680
I know that.
link |
02:17:15.960
I do, I do, I really do.
link |
02:17:17.400
People will be in part surprised by that,
link |
02:17:19.560
but I think that radiates from you.
link |
02:17:21.480
Really?
link |
02:17:22.320
Yeah, I do, I do.
link |
02:17:23.160
I do take things way too fucking seriously sometimes.
link |
02:17:25.760
But yeah, you're gonna loosen the neck up.
link |
02:17:29.840
But no, I think that's really good.
link |
02:17:33.000
That's really good stuff.
link |
02:17:34.880
I don't know what the percentage is
link |
02:17:36.440
to have a good life or a happy, healthy life,
link |
02:17:40.960
but for me, the meaning of life is
link |
02:17:45.880
getting to live it as long as you hope to.
link |
02:17:48.360
That's nice.
link |
02:17:49.600
And when you lose someone or if perhaps
link |
02:17:55.720
you're faced with your own mortality,
link |
02:17:57.400
I think that puts that into perspective.
link |
02:18:00.480
And, but I, you know.
link |
02:18:04.160
Get lots of fiber.
link |
02:18:05.640
Get lots of fiber.
link |
02:18:07.920
Be nice to everybody.
link |
02:18:09.680
And yeah, don't take things too seriously as a good,
link |
02:18:12.840
it's a good one.
link |
02:18:14.000
Our minds are fucking big, weird,
link |
02:18:18.320
it's a big, weird, shitty fucking bucket of shit
link |
02:18:22.480
that's trying to get you to think horrible shit
link |
02:18:24.680
about yourself all the time.
link |
02:18:26.160
Shitty bucket of shit.
link |
02:18:27.480
Shitty bucket of shit.
link |
02:18:28.320
I think there's a book I never read,
link |
02:18:29.640
but I read the title,
link |
02:18:30.680
and it's a good words to live by,
link |
02:18:32.160
which is don't sweat the small stuff
link |
02:18:35.240
and it's all small stuff.
link |
02:18:37.680
That's another way.
link |
02:18:38.840
Was that Dr. Phil?
link |
02:18:39.960
Wasn't Dr. Phil?
link |
02:18:41.440
I don't know.
link |
02:18:42.280
But I think the conclusion also has fiber as part of it.
link |
02:18:46.280
I think that all ties it together.
link |
02:18:48.360
And in the end, of course,
link |
02:18:50.680
just put love out there in the world.
link |
02:18:54.280
I think that's a pretty good way to go.
link |
02:18:55.680
What would you say is the meaning of life?
link |
02:18:58.480
Put love out of the world?
link |
02:18:59.840
I would say love, yeah.
link |
02:19:00.840
Yeah?
link |
02:19:01.680
Yeah, it's a long conversation on what that really means,
link |
02:19:05.680
but I'm sure robots are involved, yeah.
link |
02:19:08.360
Well, let me tell you,
link |
02:19:09.720
I feel a little safer knowing that someone
link |
02:19:11.960
who has a hand in bringing these robots to the masses
link |
02:19:18.000
as you do has that opinion of love and how important it is.
link |
02:19:22.320
I think that's great,
link |
02:19:23.200
because otherwise it's going to be that fucking scene
link |
02:19:26.880
from T2 where Linda Hamilton's holding onto the fence
link |
02:19:31.680
and getting all of her flesh blown off of her skeleton
link |
02:19:35.160
before the rest of her is wiped away,
link |
02:19:37.520
because this is Skynet shit.
link |
02:19:39.560
Anyway, I'm just terrified of DudeZee all the time.
link |
02:19:41.480
That's why I think that they will...
link |
02:19:42.960
DudeZee in the wrong hands can do a lot of damage.
link |
02:19:45.880
That's why Chad and I need to do our best to control it.
link |
02:19:49.360
We need to travel back in time and murder Chad.
link |
02:19:51.800
I think...
link |
02:19:53.600
Yeah, that's the only way.
link |
02:19:56.200
It's been said...
link |
02:19:57.200
I don't know why you need to travel back in time,
link |
02:19:58.960
but you could just murder him today,
link |
02:20:02.400
but I think he'll be very suspicious.
link |
02:20:04.240
My nefarious plans for Chad involve going back to tomorrow
link |
02:20:08.360
and planning for yesterday,
link |
02:20:09.880
and hopefully DudeZee will give me the answer there
link |
02:20:12.400
with what it is to do with Chad's frozen body.
link |
02:20:15.880
If I got to drive it out to...
link |
02:20:17.280
If I got to take my...
link |
02:20:19.320
If I got to get ahold of it,
link |
02:20:20.640
like one of those Tesla mom vans
link |
02:20:23.480
and shove my garage freezer in it and plug it in
link |
02:20:27.400
and shove Chad in there and drive out to Arizona
link |
02:20:30.000
and deliver him under a mountain
link |
02:20:31.320
or wherever the fuck this place is.
link |
02:20:33.520
And say, here's this dog tag.
link |
02:20:35.120
What does this get me?
link |
02:20:36.440
And they're like, ah, it's gonna be 300 bucks.
link |
02:20:38.920
Do you take Amix?
link |
02:20:40.480
No.
link |
02:20:41.320
And I'll be like, ah, shit.
link |
02:20:43.400
And I'll just dump them somewhere, breaking bad stuff.
link |
02:20:47.120
Well, I would like to thank you and the...
link |
02:20:50.040
What is it?
link |
02:20:50.880
The Canadian international agency apparel.
link |
02:20:55.040
Canadian international apparel.
link |
02:20:56.600
I can't wait for the sneakers from DudeZee.
link |
02:20:59.760
I can't wait for all the podcasts that AI can
link |
02:21:05.800
and all the trouble it can get you.
link |
02:21:07.320
And so I'm a huge fan of yours.
link |
02:21:09.160
It's a huge honor that you would talk with me today.
link |
02:21:11.400
Well, this has been amazing.
link |
02:21:13.160
Cheers, pal, likewise.
link |
02:21:14.480
And I'm happy to be here, man.
link |
02:21:15.800
Cheers.
link |
02:21:16.880
Bam.
link |
02:21:17.920
Oh, that was four, dude.
link |
02:21:19.520
Holy fuck, what?
link |
02:21:21.920
Thanks for listening to this conversation with Will Sasso.
link |
02:21:24.760
To support this podcast,
link |
02:21:26.000
please check out our sponsors in the description.
link |
02:21:28.840
And now let me leave you with some words from John Candy,
link |
02:21:32.400
one of Will's favorite actors.
link |
02:21:35.560
I think I may have become an actor to hide from myself.
link |
02:21:39.880
You can escape into a character.
link |
02:21:42.100
Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.